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[General] Tulpamancy: Guide Into the Strange and Wonderful
Eeveecraft Offline
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#11
 
RE: Tulpamancy: Guide Into the Strange and Wonderful
(11-29-2017, 08:52 PM)tulpa001 Wrote: Surprise! This is an example of cultural influence, which is one of the other effects. In this case, we fall back on mainstream cultural influences as the examples predate involvement with tulpamancy.

Okay, would you like to elaborate and give examples on this? Please prove to me how the placebo effect would have any play on someone who had no expectations once soever since they did not even know that Tulpamancy even existed, or even were young children around the ages of 10-11? Both of the people who were in the examples did not know that Tulpamancy or anything similar at the time existed. So please, do prove to me how they were influenced regardless of ignorance or not, please.

List of Things to Do:
  1. Update my guide every now and again
  2. Master imposition already
  3. Unlock all of Arcanus' forms
  4. Unlock all of my possible fusions
  5. Get Rylanus to draw them self
  6. Draw all of Arcanus' forms
  7. Get Azide to deviate a bit more
  8. Update my mindscape
  9. Write more Tulpamancy articles
  10. Internally scream
  11. Help people
12-05-2017, 08:46 AM
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Flandre Offline
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#12
 
RE: Tulpamancy: Guide Into the Strange and Wonderful
Noting for your sake I didn't actually read your guide and am just commenting on the current conversation - this stuff might not apply to your guide at all. But since you guys were talking about these things in the first place, it very well could.

(11-26-2017, 07:20 PM)Eeveecraft Wrote: Bad cases especially occur with natural Tulpamancy due to natural tulpa's natures when starting out, and the host can be in danger because of it. And I mean in danger by the natural tulpa switching with the host without the host realizing it, and potentially harming others. Yes, this has happened before, actually. That is why it is incredibly important to get a natural tulpa to deviate before they become too powerful to where they could switch with their host whenever they wanted. I say this for the safety of others, so that nobody gets injured, hence the warning at the beginning of the guide.

This is fear mongering to the Nth degree. The nature of your tulpa is based on expectations, even if subconscious. No uninformed person with natural tulpas will ever read this guide, or they'd be an informed person. Therefore pointing out the "possibility" for bad things to happen only gives them more expectations for such, or reinforces their rampant imagination/invasive thoughts they already have. We keep our guides and advice (usually) positive only because then the positive beliefs are believed to be "much more likely" by the person reading them. In reality nothing is "likely" and everything is subjective, so there's no need to address negative scenarios in detail except to help the person realize negative is their (possibly subconscious) choice and they have the power to change anything wrong like that.

Tulpas are "naturally" nothing. Imagination and society's influence (ie. literally everything but your pure biology) make up whatever you can think in your mind. Direct examples such as schizophrenics having voices that tell them to do bad things aren't even necessary to create the possibility in a host's mind of such things happening with natural tulpas.. but they do help. But anything that affects a person's imagination can contribute to them possibly making a tulpa that way on accident (subconsciously influencing). However natural tulpas are more often than not not dangerous. As Tulpa tends to point out (don't know if he has here yet), coming from your own mind, their default values would be self-preservation and the well-being of the body or mind or what have you. That's the sort of stuff that's already there, instinct. Not that it's very hard for subconscious expectations to shape them differently when you have no idea what you're doing (or that you're doing anything in the first place, for many natural tulpa creators). But as long as you make it clear to people this stuff is all under their control, they should be able to shape the process at least enough to end up with a non-malicious tulpa. Probably. Up to their control over their thoughts in the end.

The force-switching stuff really is just fear-mongering though, stop that. You can make up tons of stuff non-tulpamancy related that's just as unlikely to happen.. until the belief is implanted in someone's head that it can. For natural+malicious tulpas, the (possibly subconscious) idea that they could "switch" in the first place probably comes from things like stories of demonic possession. The host doesn't even need to think their tulpa is a demon, if their mind is having enough fun making up scary things it can simply take that concept and make it real because why not. It's definitely a societal influence though, no matter how indirect. This crap doesn't happen to a feral child who's never experienced socialization, I can assure you. But societal influence or not seems rather unimportant here - isn't the fact that it can happen spontaneously (due to societal influence or what have you) the important thing? Because I mean, it can. But it can be avoided by teaching people they have control over their mind and thoughts. Possibly (usually?) even for hosts already having those sorts of problems before finding out about tulpamancy, depending on how stubborn they are that their imagination is real.

(11-26-2017, 07:20 PM)Eeveecraft Wrote: That is why it is incredibly important to get a natural tulpa to deviate before they become too powerful to where ...

This confuses me, by the way. What are you saying exactly? Deviation is a term that means conscious or subconscious changes to a tulpa's development that weren't the host's intent, typically because they just never thought it shouldn't be the case, but I suppose sometimes against their will too. Another instance of thought victimization, and a lack of either self-control or at least the knowledge that they had control in the first place. Alternatively it can also just mean changes a tulpa consciously made to themselves that weren't what the host expected, like giving themselves wings or something. If your tulpa is sentient/developed enough to make such choices with clear thought, it's fine. But if they aren't even vocal yet it's more than likely a subconscious change that, if unwanted, can be considered an invasive thought and ignored. At best it can be an undeveloped tulpa experimenting (or in some cases, likely natural tulpa ones, thinking they had to change for some reason.. or none at all), but more often than not for non-vocal tulpas (excluding ones who show obvious signs of autonomy and just specifically have trouble speaking) it's just invasive thoughts. Though if the host doesn't dislike a change there's no reason to change it back if they don't want. We generally encourage forcing unwanted changes back to how they were until the tulpa is sentient and vocal, at which point if they actually want that change they can say so. But allowing unwanted changes before they're for sure sentient (generally when they're vocal) just leaves you too open to the whims of your imagination.

So if your goal is to help prevent these negative scenarios, feeding the fire is extremely counterproductive. Preach control over your own mind and that nothing is set in stone unless you think it is. Significantly less to my preference, but to help those who simply don't have that sort of control over their mind, I guess you can give them positive beliefs in the form of scenarios changing negative traits of a tulpa. But mix in the enabling "power over your own mind, nothing has to happen without your permission" stuff too, so they aren't entirely reliant on stories you make up for "how things can go". They can go any way. But.. for cases of natural tulpas where the host is convinced their imagined scenarios are real, which rarely happens on Tulpa.info and almost never to purposely-created-tulpas following our guides, symbolism and playing along with the imagination might help. I guess. I still don't like it, possibly implanting ideas that things outside of your control can happen.

There's a reason people who follow Tulpa.info's guides and advice (at least, post 2013-ish) don't end up with malicious tulpas. It's because we stamp out negative belief implanting/fear-mongering during the approval process of guides, and because we teach people well as far as general community advice goes. Most people here are aware they have some extent of control over what happens in their mind, and so they don't fall for invasive thoughts. Sometimes it's too late when people show up and they're in way over their heads believing they have no power and their tulpa is evil, but we usually don't play along and try to help with pure symbolism, without at least mentioning strongly that they have control over their thoughts and negative things don't need to be the case.

To be fair, I didn't actually read your guide, I'm just commenting on the current conversation. Tulpa.info probably isn't the place for guides that reinforce beliefs that things are outside a host's control, even if the overall goal is to help them through other means (symbolism and such, stuff that continues playing upon their imagination) - not to say there's no place for such things at all. But if your guide isn't like that, which it might not be (it seemed to be the direction this conversation was implying though), no worries, you're good. Probably. Just keep in mind we prefer to encourage the healthy mindset of ignoring negative subconscious thoughts, which we call invasive thoughts, rather than coming up with roundabout symbolic ways to deal with those problems. You could even have a guide all about that stuff though, as long as you made it apparent that was the nature of the guide.

And sorry if most of that was irrelevant to your guide. I didn't really intend to write so much in the first place, but I did.

Hi. I'm one of Luminesce's tulpas. Unlike the others, I don't think I stand out too much from him personality wise.
I'm just special because "I'm a tulpa". So I don't think I've much to offer, here. I'm happy enough to just be with him.
Ask us stuff - https://community.tulpa.info/thread-ask-lumi-s-tulpas
12-05-2017, 10:24 AM
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tulpa001 Offline
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#13
 
RE: Tulpamancy: Guide Into the Strange and Wonderful
(12-05-2017, 08:46 AM)Eeveecraft Wrote: Okay, would you like to elaborate and give examples on this? Please prove to me how the placebo effect would have any play on someone who had no expectations once soever since they did not even know that Tulpamancy even existed, or even were young children around the ages of 10-11? Both of the people who were in the examples did not know that Tulpamancy or anything similar at the time existed. So please, do prove to me how they were influenced regardless of ignorance or not, please.

I feel compelled to link scientific articles, however, this is usually discussed as a secondary or tertiary point in the ones I read.

I'll summarise. Cases of plurality in North America are usually negative. Cases of plurality in Asia and Africa are usually positive. The difference is cultural treatment of the phenomena. In North America, the Medicalist model of psychological disorder is the most dominant. Films and shows exploit the sensationalism of the phenomena to create unique villains and creepy atmosphere.

In Asia and Africa, spiritualist ideas dominate, allowing plurality to be interpreted in the context of guardian spirits.

Regardless of personal exposure to these ideas and images, those around you will place personal pressure on you in ways you don't even realise because of their personal beliefs. Even if you think they might disapprove, it's enough to push you into depression and doubt.

And if you do subscribe to these ideas and images, you will feel wrong. Immoral. Sick and in need of fixing yourself.

Host comments in italics. Tulpa's log. Tulpa's guide.
12-05-2017, 04:20 PM
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RogueDragoness Offline
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#14
 
RE: Tulpamancy: Guide Into the Strange and Wonderful
<(@Indigo)> No, it simply means Natural tulpas (and in some cases, Semi-naturals such as Alfred here on my end) are usually created without the conscious knowledge of the host.
Summoned tulpae however, are purposefully and consiously made.
Natural referring to coming into existence or maintaining without being influenced by humans, such as a forest.

(**EDIT: Still trying to figure out the ins and outs of how the forum's layout works. Wondering where the direct reply button (no, not the DM/PM button) is.)

(**EDIT 2: Just realized you beat me to it Ryleigh, haha)

(**EDIT 3:
Soren: Azyel...I think you read the posts wrong
Me: Darn, you're right. Ehhhh...Well, yeah, please excuse my forum noobiness)

(**EDIT 4:
Alfred: Okay, maybe I should do this...You seem to be having a little t r o u b l e
Me: Yep...
Alfred: ...Azyel...
Me: Yes...?
Alfred: Why did you misread all of this 50+ times, including the last edit?
Me: I...don't know.
Alfred: Wait...I just misread it too. This place reeks of odd forum-at.
Rogue: Did you seriously just make that pun
Alfred: Yes, shut it.
Soren: Dear Gods, you're right, the way the quotes are formatted is throwing me off too...
Alfred: This...This almost never happens. Why is the forum-at causing us this many problems?
Soren: I...I do not have the answer to that question, Alfred.
Rogue: THIS IS SO WEIRD)
(This post was last modified: 12-06-2017, 10:33 PM by RogueDragoness.)
12-06-2017, 10:16 PM
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Indigo` Offline
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#15
 
RE: Tulpamancy: Guide Into the Strange and Wonderful
Well that was a whole lot of nonsense.

Placeholder until I think of something cute or clever
Lyra Apollo Piano Tacio
12-07-2017, 02:33 AM
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Eeveecraft Offline
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#16
 
RE: Tulpamancy: Guide Into the Strange and Wonderful
While I was working on my response to all of the posts, yeah, that was really out of place. Still, though, they should get used to the forum format in a more private manner.
Anyway, back to me drafting and revising my response to everyone's previous statements. Just wanted to chime in with that.
However, RogueDragoness is correct on what they said, but I'll post a more thought out post at a later time when I am finished typing and revising it.

List of Things to Do:
  1. Update my guide every now and again
  2. Master imposition already
  3. Unlock all of Arcanus' forms
  4. Unlock all of my possible fusions
  5. Get Rylanus to draw them self
  6. Draw all of Arcanus' forms
  7. Get Azide to deviate a bit more
  8. Update my mindscape
  9. Write more Tulpamancy articles
  10. Internally scream
  11. Help people
12-07-2017, 08:28 AM
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