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[General] Tulpamancy: Guide Into the Strange and Wonderful
RogueDragoness Offline
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#21
 
RE: Tulpamancy: Guide Into the Strange and Wonderful

Okay, since we've finally gotten used to the mobile format here, me and my headmates are gonna back up our friend Ryleigh (Eeveecraft) here.
I'm Alfred, Azyel's tulpa, and I'm a semi-natural. Rogue is not very happy with the "naturals are just your imagination running wild" statement, and honest to god neither are Azyel and I.
Rogue: Haha, yeah, are you serious?! I'm a freaking tulpa just like you. How would you feel if I called a semi-natural or a summoned tulpa something like that, huh?
Soren: I agree with Rogue, as a summoned tulpa, that was completely uncalled for.
(This post was last modified: 12-22-2017, 10:31 PM by RogueDragoness.)
12-22-2017, 10:17 PM
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Eeveecraft Offline
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#22
 
RE: Tulpamancy: Guide Into the Strange and Wonderful

Okay, you know how there is no evidence about naturals other than what I have, right? It's due to naturals being recently discovered by my friend and I, so of course there isn't going to be much evidence quite yet, which is also why the same friend and I have been studying them. My friend and I are the ones to come up with the definition, thus it is the actual definition; just like how you get to name the star you discovered since no-one else discovered it yet. I'm honestly surprised that you didn't just look into your friend's memories to see that I already explained that naturals are different than walk-ins. The whole point of that section is for people who are curious about Tulpamancy and perhaps want to summon one can at least check and see if they have a natural before summoning a tulpa, or just for anyone reading the guide since having an unknown natural can go bad very easily since they have a lot more control if they're not noticed and that they're undeviated. I will give an example of a friend of mine discovering she had a natural tulpa she did not know she had for five years went and how the natural tulpa acted (warning: there is indeed swearing in there): https://sta.sh/04freokgpqi

That was not the entire conversation, but only a portion and I was not present in this chat log, but you can see how serious it is. And yes, one of my friends did attempt to use the belief ability that you so praise, which did not work, as you can see. It is not something to laugh at, and I can give plenty more examples if you wish. One of my goals while being in this community is for the community to acknowledge natural tulpas as their own type of tulpa. The definition of a natural tulpa can be applied outside of the guide, and it is in my community, but it does require context of what a tulpa in general is. And mind you, you should very well know that there is an entire definitions section if the reader does not know what a tulpa is, then they can look at the definition of a natural tulpa.

And before you say it: I am fully aware that this community has a lot of standards set for years, but I would like to see this community to accept naturals as their own type of tulpa, and I believed that this community would welcome things that can be proven and evidenced, which is what I am doing now. In the future, I plan to write an article on natural tulpas along with their origins, how they develop compared to summoned tulpas, and of course how naturals are created into the first place. Even so, I have opened my Discord server which has several natural Tulpamancers on it for others to join if they ask for a link in a PM, as all of my evidence on natural tulpas lie there in conversations and on that server, so researchers can observe the development of natural tulpas alongside me so that they can witness my evidence and such. In addition, those who join the server can even ask natural Tulpamancers and tulpas alike questions about how they originated, what emotion they're made of, and so on. To be fully honest, this task I am on is near-impossible for just one person since most of my fellow researchers are not forum-goers or wish to interact with the main community at all, thus I welcome people who are interested in joining to ask me for a link.

Anyway, that is my spiel on that, and I just so happen to be curious for the next reply.

Dragons: Arcanus, Azide, Rylanus, Rylazide.
To Do List:
[*]Update my guide often
[*]Master imposition
[*]Unlock all of Arcanus' forms
[*]Unlock all of my possible fusions
[*]Get Rylanus to draw them self
[*]Draw all of Arcanus' forms
[*]Get Azide to deviate more
[*]Update my mindscape
[*]Write more Tulpamancy articles
[*]Internally scream
[*]Help people
12-22-2017, 10:46 PM
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RogueDragoness Offline
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#23
 
RE: Tulpamancy: Guide Into the Strange and Wonderful

Since we're in the discord server Ryleigh just mentioned as well, I also encourage you to ask for a link now if you're that skeptical.
Rogue: Same, if it'll prove to you people that my kind exists. Because we do, and if you can't believe it then you can s--
Soren: Okaaaay, that's enough Rogue, don't get *too* mad.
Azyel: *Cough* Anyway, if we remember correctly, Rogue was one of Darkflame and Ryleigh's first cases, too. She used to be a...Well, not very cool. Now she's not as triggered but that kind of racist crap is still enough to set her off...
(This post was last modified: 12-22-2017, 11:01 PM by RogueDragoness.)
12-22-2017, 10:57 PM
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RNCheesus Offline
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#24
 
RE: Tulpamancy: Guide Into the Strange and Wonderful

Hey there! Being a friend of Ry, I'm here to defend her with my experiences! The only problem is, our semi-host, Cheese, has gone missing, so I don't know much of the stuff he knows. I'm just a tulpa of his. Our true host, J, has honestly just stayed quiet and agreed Cheese is a great leader. Long story, but it's not that much of an importance.

After recognizing who we are a few months ago, we kind of delve deeper into understanding who we are. We've actually had a LOT of things happen to use before and after we knew. Before was Malachi, a previous version of me. From what I heard, Malachi didn't cause any intent until Cheese was created. Three years after Cheese was created, he was sick of him and tried to overthrow him. Me and two other tulpas are the first tulpas, but not known. We were all natural, and we don't know how we even came to be. Back to the topic, a few months ago, Malachi finally caught on to destroying Cheese, but with the help of Ry, RD, and Darkflame, we were able to overcome him. After that, it seemed to be habitable for all of us. We're a big mess, but we manage to get over it from time to time. Not too long ago, Exodus was influenced by one of the old tulpas (as we now call them). Everyone thought he was mad, and it was a large war. Cheese found Exodus, and found one of them. He's soon deviated from his normal intentions. Then, a few weeks or a month ago, Malachi acted out and tried his plan again. We forced him in the old mindscape and we waited until his powers were weak, then we repurposed him into who I am today. Now, a fourth old-one, created by us, managed to reveal himself and mess with us. One of the tulpas, Chase, soon created a family with the unused tulpas, and it became the highlight of our crappy life. Don soon found out about the family, lured them into vulnerability, and kidnapped them. Before that, they kidnapped Cheese before. The family was set free, but Cheese became a big mystery. Yesterday, we received news from Exodus, who has been looking through all the mindscapes via memories, that Cheese was stuck in the tulpa limbo someone created long ago. Again we really don't know his return, but he's still here.

In conclusion, Tulpamancy shaped Cheese's, or J's life to a different direction. With the muse of Ry, Darkflame, and RD, we turned into a collective bunch who function Cheese, or J.
12-22-2017, 11:33 PM
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RaveCrazedDave Offline
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#25
 
RE: Tulpamancy: Guide Into the Strange and Wonderful

Word of advice on how to handle reviews and critique: you shut up and listen. You do NOT, under any circumstances even hint at trying to create conflict with those who are reviewing your stuff.

That being said, I think it's really dishonest for the community to disapprove of a guide because of ideology, though I guess that'll change on a moderator by moderator basis.
12-23-2017, 08:41 AM
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Eeveecraft Offline
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#26
 
RE: Tulpamancy: Guide Into the Strange and Wonderful

Oh, wow, thank you for the support! Yeah... I warned my friend about that, but she and her tulpas were just really offended, but I'll let them know about it. These are completely new concepts and ideas, yes, but I swear that they can (and have been so far) proven, and I can still continue to prove it. Actually, has completely new ideas or concepts like mine and my friend's ever happened before where they're completely out of the blue? Such as a user posting for the first time, and it's about something they discovered on their own research instead of from an article? I imagine I'm not the first one to do something like this in the tulpa community before, correct? 

Anyway, I have a good analogy for natural tulpas I thought of in my spare time, and I would like to share it and see if this can clarify how naturals are different from walk-ins and how they are created:

Imagine your mind being your body and constant, large amounts of stress and repressed emotions being a virus. To protect itself, the brain can cause a fever to kill the virus and protect the body, now imagine the mind does the same thing, but with a natural tulpa being the fever. The mind has good intentions of using the a natural tulpa as a way to protect the mind, but just like a fever, it can backfire, which can relate to how a natural's methods of protecting the host can potentially harm the host instead. That is how naturals are different from walk-in tulpas, and I hope this analogy can simplify things a bit.

Dragons: Arcanus, Azide, Rylanus, Rylazide.
To Do List:
[*]Update my guide often
[*]Master imposition
[*]Unlock all of Arcanus' forms
[*]Unlock all of my possible fusions
[*]Get Rylanus to draw them self
[*]Draw all of Arcanus' forms
[*]Get Azide to deviate more
[*]Update my mindscape
[*]Write more Tulpamancy articles
[*]Internally scream
[*]Help people
12-23-2017, 09:56 AM
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Lucilyn Offline
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#27
 
RE: Tulpamancy: Guide Into the Strange and Wonderful

(12-23-2017, 08:41 AM)RaveCrazedDave Wrote: That being said, I think it's really dishonest for the community to disapprove of a guide because of ideology, though I guess that'll change on a moderator by moderator basis.

(12-21-2017, 05:49 AM)Lucilyn Wrote: AND unfortunately, your guide's greatest use seems to be to people with those sorts of problems, not to new tulpamancers (which is USUALLY what our Guides section is for). Not those sorts of problems as in unruly tulpas, but problems with control over their mind/imagination/tulpas in the first place, because it's the mindset your guide is conducive to. So it's like, a good guide for a bad mindset? It really isn't the sort of mindset we try to ever encourage, that's for sure, but it usually is the sort of "coming from this place" necessary for people with those sorts of problems who refuse to change their mindset. Technically we'd consider that dealing with symptoms rather than underlying problems, but whatever, it has its use probably. For people who don't wanna change.

I think a guide like that would actually be a really good addition to the site, because no doubt we get tons of visitors looking for stuff like that who leave (usually before ever posting) because our general mindset doesn't click with theirs. But I'm still worried about it influencing people who are easily suggestible but NOT having those problems, yet. Is there a way to make the difference clear up-front? I don't know, when you probably don't see it as a possible negative influence in the first place. Well, our intuition for how the forum works says people will just find another guide if they don't like it. Though we do occasionally see people utterly stuck in the ways of a certain guide, even when the guide wasn't bad, where they think things like hour counts or puppeting (or not puppeting, which turns into a fear of puppeting) are absolute staples to the process. And the only real cure to that is to give more than one guide a chance, really.

Hmm, maybe noting that yours is only one guide and there are many others people may find click with them better would do it? I mean, that sounds good to me, though you gotta be serious about it, 'cus people really will stick to just one guide if it seems like it knows what it's talking about. And yours totally does, GJ on that btw. But more than just different advice, a big part of reading different guides is the different mindsets they work off of or contribute to. Reading different guides with different mindsets (including and/or especially ones that disagree with each other) is how you become open-minded, and I think everyone agrees being open-minded will eventually lead to the best results.

So, even though your guide scares me a bit as a possible newbie's first and only guide, I think it has its fair share of people who will benefit from it because our preferred mindset as a forum doesn't always click well enough for people to give it a chance. And for those people, your guide is probably a heck'uva lot better than no guide at all. That seems reasonable right?

I musta rolled a natural 1 on my persuasion check because it looks like this was a critical failure

the biggest problems with the guide aren't ideology, they're the disparities between terminologies and other things that make it either hard to understand for other members of Tulpa.info, or hard for new members who read the guide to understand the rest of Tulpa.info. My main suggestion was to change the wording on some things and then recommend readers also look at other guides too... Otherwise I said the guide would be a good addition to our Guides section :/

Hi I'm one of Lumi's tulpas. I like rain and dancing and dancing in the rain and if there's frogs there too that's bonus points.
All of my posts should be read at a hundred miles per hour because that's probably how they were written.
Please talk to me https://community.tulpa.info/thread-ask-lumi-s-tulpas
12-23-2017, 11:04 AM
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Eeveecraft Offline
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#28
 
RE: Tulpamancy: Guide Into the Strange and Wonderful

*Sigh...* I don't know if you are still saying if I encourage a "negative mindset" here, but that's not what my intention is. The people I've tested with Tulpa.info's mindset of just using belief to incapacitate rowdy tulpas never worked, but I do see this working for newer, summoned tulpas specifically (Which none of the test subjects had a new, summoned tulpa) since they are most likely weak enough for that to actually be effective. Summoned tulpas are incredibly less likely to act like an undeviated natural (doesn't mean it's impossible, though) since of the reasons I read in the FAQ, yes, and I will agree with those methods, but almost exclusively for summoned tulpas. If naturals are to be recognized, they need their own methods if they are undeviated because yet again, I can give even more examples of natural tulpa events that have happened if you want; I have plenty more stowed away in Discord's chat logs. I'm actually surprised that two of my friends (who are both natural Tulpamancers) came and signed up to this forum to support me even though I never forced them to. They have their own natural Tulpamancy experiences to share if you don't want me to be the only one posting evidence.

And about the terminology, that's exactly why the definitions section is there, and I place the more commonplace terms in there like "wonderland" or "thoughtform" to clarify. If you want, I can place a note at the beginning that says to check the definitions section if the reader is confused at all. If there's any more common terms, let me know, so I can add them in! My biggest problem with myself and everything I do in general is that I am so easily misunderstood that people who once met me on this server thought I was going to take it over and rule a dictatorship because of how I acted when in reality, I had the best intentions. People seem to have trouble looking past that, and it just ends up being a huge mess just like this and I have to explain a million times that's I'm not the bad guy or that my intentions are pure and whatnot, but they're just clouded by the actions and how I specifically do things (without intending to) via usually unorthodox methods, and the list just goes on and on. Anyway, I do hope this can eventually be sorted out with due time; I'm always looking for others who see natural tulpas as a unique type of tulpa, and that they believe my studies on them and the evidence I have.

Dragons: Arcanus, Azide, Rylanus, Rylazide.
To Do List:
[*]Update my guide often
[*]Master imposition
[*]Unlock all of Arcanus' forms
[*]Unlock all of my possible fusions
[*]Get Rylanus to draw them self
[*]Draw all of Arcanus' forms
[*]Get Azide to deviate more
[*]Update my mindscape
[*]Write more Tulpamancy articles
[*]Internally scream
[*]Help people
12-23-2017, 10:07 PM
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RaveCrazedDave Offline
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#29
 
RE: Tulpamancy: Guide Into the Strange and Wonderful

(12-23-2017, 11:04 AM)Lucilyn Wrote: I musta rolled a natural 1 on my persuasion check because it looks like this was a critical failure

the biggest problems with the guide aren't ideology (...)

I'm sorry if I implied that, it wasn't my intention. I just think it happens way too often around here, but I'm not saying you did it.
12-24-2017, 03:38 AM
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Lucilyn Offline
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#30
 
RE: Tulpamancy: Guide Into the Strange and Wonderful

well despite quoting you it was aimed at everyone and mainly Eevee

@Eevee The negative mindset thing was never talking about how it would affect "naturals", it was for people without tulpas who were going to or were just starting to make them. Trust me, just reading that stuff will still put doubts in some peoples' minds whether you say it should apply to them or not. Buuut I already said it was fine so..

And I still don't get why you act like you've discovered a new type of tulpa or something, the sorts of tulpas you've described have always existed, you just put a new label to specify them specifically. But natural's still a really misleading term... I would literally say the sentence "{Your term} doesn't apply to all natural tulpas, though" because of what natural means in the first place, naturally occurring. So it's still confusing that you separate some naturally-occurring tulpas (no outside influence) from other "natural tulpas" (made from strong emotion?)

Hi I'm one of Lumi's tulpas. I like rain and dancing and dancing in the rain and if there's frogs there too that's bonus points.
All of my posts should be read at a hundred miles per hour because that's probably how they were written.
Please talk to me https://community.tulpa.info/thread-ask-lumi-s-tulpas
12-24-2017, 10:04 AM
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