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How much can a personality (you or the tulpa) change?


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After reading a lot of the experiences people have with their tulpae, an old idea has been stuck in my head for a while: "We are who we think/believe we are".

That idea rings far more true for a tulpa than for a human who is still defined by the external environment. During the personality stage, one tells their tulpa what they are, or what they want them to be and those traits are picked up by a lot of tulpae. It's not clear how many are picked by conscious choice and how many are there from the start.

We do know from hypnosis and auto-hypnosis experiments that we can slightly change some of our own traits/characteristics as long as we want to, but after a while, our personalities (both tulpa and host), solidify sufficiently and just become stable that they don't change nearly as much.

I will propose a series of experiments that those with a vocal tulpa can do to see if they can change the personality, likes and traits (and pretty much anything they would want) of the tulpa, and the reverse experiment: allow the tulpa to change something in yourself and see if it would work.

This might also be useful as far as giving your tulpa some extra abilities that are possible in principle, but your tulpa seems unable to do them right now.

 

The creator of the tulpa, is to pick a trait the tulpa does not have or which the tulpa is indifferent to, or which the tulpa hates (better pick all 3 versions). Example: Your tulpa does not like orange juice.

 

You are to force an item, similar to ThatOneGuy's method, where you believe that if said item were to be consumed by the tulpa, then they would suddenly change in some way (such as: "This item makes you love orange juice if it is consumed/used.")

You force this item and ask your tulpa to consume it (if it wants to), and then test it by seeing if the tulpa now has that trait (such as liking orange juice). You must do this in 2 ways, first, you do it while your tulpa is present and understanding of the experiment, then you can do a silent version where the potion/item is made without the tulpa's knowledge (if this is impossible, ask the tulpa to put up a block and ignore your "potion making" experiment).

Report effects here with all the cases: with and without the tulpa's knowledge, and with traits they wouldn't mind changing and traits they would mind changing and see what works and what doesn't.

 

The second experiment is essentially the same as the first one, but this time, you ask the tulpa to make the item and have you use it in the wonderland or if it's imposed, in your regular awake state. Things to try: consuming the item while awake, while in a trance state, while lucid dreaming. The effects might differ depending on your own psychological state of mind.

 

If the tulpa cannot make new items, try making a similar item which grants your tulpa ability to change the wonderland or make new items. If that doesn't work, try teaching the tulpa how you make new items and see if they can learn from you.

 

The experiments do require that both parties trust each other sufficiently so that they wouldn't want to change the other party in ways that the other party does not desire.

 

The core idea is that both we and the tulpa are defined greatly by our subconscious beliefs and that we should be able to change each other's subconscious beliefs.

 

Results are to be posted here or if you want, use the google doc from the other thread:

http://tulpa.info/forums/Thread-Experiment-Documentation

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AoARaoPuaCJqdHlOUzlXU2pSMndmZFl0VG5hdUNmc3c#gid=0

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Other ideas worth testing: "potion of generic belief/trait change", "restore effects of *point to potion* to previous state", "potion of tulpa's heart rate change".

 

For example, have the item change your belief in a way, then realize the belief has changed, and have another item which restores the belief to its previous stage.

Items which change passive traits seem like they would work (such as if you forced a heart rate for your tulpa, change that), but if one can change active personality traits/beliefs is unclear to me if it would work.

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Item: Potion of Autism

Effects: For at least 60 seconds, you are autistic as fuck

 

Luna consumes Potion of Autism, plays Minecraft for 120 seconds, then gets bored and quits.

 

glitchthe3rd consumes Potion of Autism, plays Minecraft for 60 minutes, then gets bored and quits.

 

 

BONUS STAGE: Personality trait bleeding effect

 

Luna's personality changes relatively little as a a result of possession.

 

glitchthe3rd becomes more like Luna with each successful possession. glitchthe3rd worries that he will eventually merge with Luna and become a different person. glitchthe3rd finds this prospect rather disturbing.

"Science isn't about why, science is about why not?" -Cave Johnson

Tulpae: Luna, Elise, Naomi

My progress report

 

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A person's personality is made of a lot of things, but most of that is created by habits and habitual beliefs. People around us who we like, dislike, are raised by, grew up watching, passing thoughts, etc. all help us determine things about us, from being genuinely kind to strangers to being a good student in school.

 

This quote always gets me:

 

“We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, therefore, is not an act, but a habit.”

– Aristotle

 

This goes into everything. You might call yourself a kind person but never act on it, or say you are a good student but are lazy. Your habits you form and the beliefs that form around them really matter and really affect who you are. It's very easy to change a habit, but often times we fall right back into them(we did fall into that habit in the first place, obviously something you do draws you towards that very habit)

 

That's why things like hypnosis for weight loss or whatever work, but only as long as you continue to focus on them. Slight manipulation of the subconscious to believe it is something else, but clearly something about the lifestyle draws you back into gaining weight, etc. You would need to know the root of the cause in order to completely change it. So add a habit about exercising, add a liking for healthier foods, make a distaste for fast food and soda, etc. and you would need to change your habits to keep it up after the reinforcement goes away.

 

But with something as well formed and well conditioned as a tulpa, I can really see that effecting the personality. Your subconscious is the one determining such things, and your subconscious is currently focusing on justifying the tulpa's actions and beliefs as well. Very easy to start mixing the pieces to what the subconscious really thinks is best.

 

I think the tulpa could very well change you. How permanent it is probably depends. If you chose to ignore the tulpa or the effect of personality change from the tulpa, it would likely go away, unless it was such a great change that your habits have now formed around it and are supporting it.

 

It's interesting stuff.

 

 

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I have NO IDEA if this is the most relevant place to put this, but I figure it would best go here anyway...

 

For those who don't know much about ThatOneGuy's tulpa Clair, her personality since her creation was "cold and calculating," thinking of only people as numbers. Logical, unemotional towards anyone she hasn't warmed up to. This is how TOG set up her personality.

 

For those of you who are not familiar with everything on Glitch and Luna... Basically, awhile ago, Glitch decided to reabsorb Luna -- everyone thought she was dead (you can read about that drama in Glitch's topic). It hit Clair pretty hard; I'm assuming it wasn't only because they chatted before, but because Luna was also a tulpa -- something that Clair could identify with.

 

Anyway, the following conversation pretty much speaks for itself:

http://pastebin.com/1CEGSfet

 

My conclusions:

A tulpa's personality can change, and I think, at the very least, events can change the tulpa's way of thinking, or change their perspective on things.

 

Some people may step in and say, "Well, that's obvious," and yeah, if you're treating a tulpa as an individual, moreso, as a consciousness that can learn, rationalize, and grow ("character development," if you would), then it is obvious.

 

However, there's a friend of mine in the IRC (who I won't name, without his permission), I was telling him that from the tulpae I have chatted with, you'll find that their just as interesting and complex to speak with as any human being you find off the street (and yes, even the homeless vet has very interesting stories to tell if someone would listen). Once this realization was made, he said, "Guess I should stop treating Tulpas like hallucinations."

Spoiler

An image in a signature behind a hidden tag! 

image.png.4b4fd4a211261c307de1fb4de85312d6.png

 

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Once this realization was made, he said, "Guess I should stop treating Tulpas like hallucinations."

 

I think this was the advice from day 0, it's both a good thing to assume for the tulpa's development and a think you must consider once it can talk.

What you're supposed to think of them are as separate minds which share part of your memories and which interact with you through your active imagination, which is now, no longer, just "yours".

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