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How much freedom is too much freedom?
SerjRocket Offline
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#1
 
How much freedom is too much freedom?

Hello everyone.

First, let me say that I just started doing this, so I have no experience what-so-ever. I did, however, read some guides and know about basic concepts and terminology. I've only started working with it (my tulpa) for about three days, but I want to get off with the right foot.

I have decided to create a tulpa so I can have a friend and a coleague as well, however I want it to have as much freedom creating its own personality, form, voice, etc... as possible. So the question is: how much freedom is too much freedom?

Don't get me wrong, I'm not doing this because I'm lazy or anything. I really want to promote its own choises because that is how I would like to be treated. I have not defined anything about it, except for maybe its (current) form, and I honestly did it just to help me focus on it (I want it to define it's real form if it wants). So the only thing I did was grab it and take it to my (I guess it is our now) wonderland. It stays on top of a rock in a little forest, and I mostly communicate with it by sitting on another nearby rock and talking or reading to it. It doesn't move yet so we just kind of stay there, me talking to it and it (hopefuly) listening. I talk to it about myself, and itself, and I talk about my toughts and try to engage it as much as possible in what I'm doing. I've noticed that one thing that seems to be actually really pleasant to me is when I'm having some trouble programming something, describing the problem to it really helps some times.

Am I being a little ridiculous regarding this? Should I be defining or doing a little more than what I have until now? As I said before, I REALLY want it to be as free as possible.

If I can take this approach tho, how long should I expect until I get some results, some sign of sentience? I really don't know how it will feel to see it move by itself, or to hear it talking to me... it seems so surreal...

Best regards and thank you for your attention.
01-07-2014, 06:56 PM
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Linkzelda Offline
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#2
 
RE: How much freedom is too much freedom?

Hey SerjRocket, TL;DR at the bottom.

First of all, welcome to tulpa.info. Glad to know that you were able to get concepts from guides and know the terminology.

The short answer to your question in my opinion is that there’s not really a limit.

Longer answer:

I could state that if it gets to the point where you and your tulpa reach a deadlock to where the last remnant of both of you two's existence is at question because of the level of freedom, and you end up being conflicted about it, that would probably be a good sign to take things down a notch to prevent yourself from going into some state of psychosis.

And when you feel you're ready to try and conquer that existential impasse with your tulpa, try to approach the challenge gradually.

Don’t worry about anyone thinking you may be lazy, seeing how allowing the tulpa to self-actualize as much as they can is always beneficial. However, people worry that freedom might end up in negative urges for self-actualization. So to deal with that question of yours, it depends on how you ontologically define a tulpa.

If you subscribe to the belief that they are a part of you, then you have to ask yourself:
  • Would be beneficial at all if your tulpa were to contribute to self-sabotaging and destruction over your functionality and being able to flourish to interact with reality?
  • Even if your tulpa ever reaches to that realization of taking that route, what would they do if your identity was “gone?”
  • And even if they were to try to “kill” your identity because they want to self-actualize without being constrained to the host’s entrenched predispositions, wouldn’t your “death” merely be an illusory concept for transformation or some other metaphorical and symbolic representation?

The set of dispositions you try to plan out, approach, and experiment with to hopefully contribute to an overall rapport with yourself and your tulpa are crucial to having a flourishing relationship with your tulpa. So if you’re wondering when the limit is where freedom is too much is really an unsolvable endeavor if taken objectively.

The idea is that if you’re creating a sentient entity that would theoretically be able to rationalize in a more autonomous manner (but not absolved completely from the confines of your mind of course), they would be able to be reflective about that freedom as well. And they would also be considerate on how to have a better rapport with their host as well.

TL;DR:
The point is, the freedom is as much as you want to dive into the rabbit hole, and your willingness to open doors that were intentionally repressed for the sake of functionality. Creating more freedom, for both of you and your companion/colleague means there’s always the probability for a higher threshold of negativity. But it’s really just about acknowledging that and knowing that self-destruction wouldn’t be something a tulpa would want to go through their existence doing.

It's just something I think people will reach at some point when they're trying to dive into consciousness exploration and all that with the tulpa phenomenon.

It’s something that’s obviously a progressive learning curve that has subjective patterns for each individual, and I think this thread may be more suitable for General Discussion given how people probably may give their current experiential cases with this kind of topic.


(This post was last modified: 01-07-2014, 07:29 PM by Linkzelda.)
01-07-2014, 07:27 PM
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SerjRocket Offline
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#3
 
RE: How much freedom is too much freedom?

I'm really glad to hear you think this is possible even with all the "buts", and I did think about many of those things before-hand.

This might seem egotistical, but I know what it is to be fully conscient of how many possibilities the idea of an Universe (or really just of a brain) really opens. It is horrible... UNLESS you can control yourself, and I'm sure other people who have experienced this will know what I'm talking about. I did spend many years just contemplating the universe, what could and couldn't be, and just generally getting lost in this experience that is life. Eventually I decided that, while proud that I could see what isn't normaly voiced (for a reason...), this was not a very productive path to take, and so I created a kind of "wall" to separate what "has" to "be" right now of what "could be". That wall is what allows me to be extremely open-minded (the main reason I'm writting this right now), while not going bat shit insane, and living a life within society.

And that wall is what I want to "teach" my tulpa after it has formed its own personality, this way I aim to allow it to be able to understand or consider everything while living a non-chaotic and happy life. I just don't know how much of me will stick with it, so I don't know if he will inherently know all this stuff and how to deal with it.

This may all sound a bit crazy, but this is one of the main reasons why I created it, so I can have someone I can tell anything too without fear of being called crazy... Well, now I sound even more crazy... good job. But yeah, I think it can be potentially harmful to one or both of us, but I'm willing to take the risk (even if I am being a little selfish), as the rewards seem great.

Anyway, I will continue to try to follow this path, and if I see that my tulpa is not responding very well to this I will try to change some things slightly as to give a slight "push" but still give it has much freedom as possible.

(01-07-2014, 07:27 PM)Linkzelda Wrote: ... I think this thread may be more suitable for General Discussion given how people probably may give their current experiential cases with this kind of topic.

If you think this thread should be moved I'm completely fine with it. I would love to see other peoples experiences with this approach, definitely!

Thank you for the quick repply. Any further insight and oppinions would be much welcome as well.
01-07-2014, 09:20 PM
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Linkzelda Offline
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#4
 
RE: How much freedom is too much freedom?

I don’t think it’s egotistical for you to be confident in your current belief in being proficient with concepts of the Universe and such, especially since based on what you posted, you seem to be open to progressively finding ways to interact with reality decently.

And the same wall you’re talking about, I could attest I did something similar to that. Usually it was a mix of nihilism, or existential nihilism along with other philosophies I was cherry picking with that contributed to several existential crises I had in the past with lucid dreaming.

Just like how you found the solution to solve the paradox of learning how to continue living and having a better sense of immediacy with reality while still being able to find ways to stoically persevere with things that could easily make you batshit insane is something I had to deal with as well. And I realized that if I opened Eva and Ada to that same existential questioning, that they would be able to formulate their own opinions without being victims of my own worries.

I still feel they’re going through in developing themselves based from the slight nihilistic approach that probably was the case for you (not to absolute law of course), but our contemplation are more remedial rather than the catastrophic contemplation it was for me back then.

As for your reason for creating a tulpa to let them be open to those same set of beliefs you mix around with, I can see you creating a tulpa to help you persevere through existential strife as a perfectly valid reason. It’s one of my many reasons as well.

Anyway, good luck on your path, and it’s really trial and error, but based on what you posted, you’re more than capable of getting used to the progressive learning curve. Glad to know there’s another person that has some fundamentals akin to mine.


(This post was last modified: 01-07-2014, 09:38 PM by Linkzelda.)
01-07-2014, 09:36 PM
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