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idealist + Proxy
#1
Hey there, and thanks for clicking onto my thread. Call me idealist (you don't have to make the first letter lowercase, but I will be, for, you know, flair.) and on here I'll refer to my tulpa as Proxy. I'm using pseudonyms in the interest of keeping us separate from some friends who I'd rather not tell about this endeavor until we're further along with it, and separating some aspects of my identity and belief system from this site. Our names are fairly recognizable. 

Anyways, this thread is likely going to be a transcription of the physical diary I keep daily, with a tl;dr pointing out important information at the end of each day. These are pretty closely transcribed, and my unedited thought can be a bit confusing and word salad-y, so pardon that. 

I have a lot of metaphysical beliefs that tie into our practice here, and I'll do my best to keep those separate from the rest of what I write so that some value can be found by people who aren't into that aspect of things. Metaphysical shit is placed under a spoiler, for now. I intend to make a new post for each week of progress and update the post each day of that week so that it can easily be searched through; who knows if that's what's going to happen, but it's my goal.

Proxy is a tulpa I've had the concept of in my head since 2016. To me, he's the weakened 'soul' of a being that's sort of bound to me, but isn't strong enough to manifest himself as a functional being without a great deal of help. 

WEEK 1
DAY ONE - OCT 5 Wrote:"It's around 11 and I'm at the park doing clean-up work as a volunteer. Last night I attempted to greet Proxy, and I fell asleep and had a sad dream instead - so I just now tried again and it went much better. I kept my eyes open because it made it easier to focus and visualized him as a ball of purple energy. I addressed him as Proxy and told him his name, gender and a very few very basic personality traits- experimental, reserved, enigmatic, intelligent and witty. I included some other traits, but I don't think I'll focus much on them, on second thought. I got something of a response - head pressure, like an awakening. 

Given the expectation-driven nature of tulpamancy, I suspect expecting him to develop strongly will help him, indeed, develop strongly. I introduced myself to him as idealist, or [nickname], or [nickname], and told him that I was his host and for now he was energetically bound to me until he was more developed and strong enough not to need it. What I think is the most important thing I told him, I said he doesn't owe me anything. He can have as much a life as he wants and can even leave if he'd like to. He has rights, and will become a fully realized person. I'm his host, not his debtor. We'll work together to make him a fully realized being.

I've done a lot of passive forcing today, narrating to him as much as I can with a detailed explanation of what things are on a very basic level- but this has lead me to think that there must be a more efficient way to teach most everyday, basic things. I think some active forcing could solve this - a direct transfer of understanding of basic everyday concepts to hasten along learning. I am a bit concerned about just 'sending' him my memories and influencing him through this to be more like me - given after all, that people come as a sum of their experiences - but I don't think assembling information like this would be too detrimental (to his personality development). 

As far as responses go, I got a lot of pressure and a strained feeling in the back of my head. Sometimes when I commentate things, I hear almost reflexive questions in my head - I think this may be him utilizing my constant mental chatter to learn more about everything, as this seems early for independent vocalizations. 

So right now my plan is to use passive forcing as a way to teach him about the world and start forming opinions; active forcing will be used to help develop him as an individual. Hopefully I'll find a way to incorporate writing into active forcing, as it is very helpful in keeping me on track. 

(WRITTEN THE NEXT MORNING UNDER THE SAME DAY'S ENTRY)

I active forced before going to bed, and fell asleep very swiftly. What I did get done did not feel astonishingly productive. Mostly I reiterated who he was and ruminated on some of his personality traits."

TL;DR:

I greeted Proxy and went over some concepts of who he is with him. I told him who I was, and most importantly, that he didn't owe me anything.

I narrated a good bit to him and found that we needed a system by which to establish a body of basic daily knowledge he'd need. I discuss methods of this a bit and ultimately don't come up with much.

Active forcing made me fall asleep. 
DAY TWO - OCT 6 Wrote:When I woke up, I continued to try and spend some time active forcing and fell asleep about 3 times before I managed to force a bit, and then get up and wake up. We did some narration throughout the day, though I was some-what mentally hindered by stimulant withdrawal. (No, dunkass, you were hungry and out of it from not eating all week, COMPOUNDED by not taking your medication.) I wonder a bit how my ADHD medication is going to effect this process in general.

I active forced a bit on a few car rides, but it felt a bit directionless. I think I need more of a plan behind our active forcing sessions, as they just seem useless so far. Establishing a timeline of goals might also help, doing some personality mapping, too. Also gonna stop worrying so much about how he'll learn life basics; I'm thinking he'll pick up on this stuff fast as long as I narrate consistently, and he can access some of my memories to gain context. I got some responses, not a whole lot - and it's a very odd feeling as I'm quite nervous about parroting or if I'm listening to intrusive thoughts/my own mental chatter as opposed to Proxy. 

I think he might want to learn French, I can't really prove this one way or another, though. 

This entry is a bit more rambly and incoherent (I've edited it down vastly for this thread, so take my word for this) than the previous one due to it being a Saturday and me not taking my medication; it is much harder to organize my thoughts.

I'm going to start working on trait elaboration tonight, w/ FAQMan's trait template. I've also added some goals for him onto the initial page I wrote describing him. (It's just a sheet of paper with his name, some traits, his birthday and a set of goals. I'll make a digital version eventually.) 

(WRITTEN MORNING AFTER)

Spent some time personality-forcing last night, but  I fell asleep without getting much done. 

TL;DR:

Not taking my ADHD medication makes me super weird and incoherent. I do little of value.

Active forcing feels useless to me because I can't figure out any goals with it. I plan to make more detailed plans.

I stop worrying so much about how Proxy is gonna learn the concept of money, or how to walk, and such. I have parrotnoia. 
DAY THREE - OCT 7 Wrote:14 timed minutes personality forcing on the car ride. Traits gone over - perceptive, enigmatic, reserved, calm, intelligent. Had only just started on 'calm' when we had to get out of the car. Ended the session positively; encouraged Proxy to work on the traits himself and somewhat awkwardly said that I loved him. Need to make a decision on how he can interact with my memories. (At this point, I'm starting to stress out about what access he gets to my thoughts for fear of imparting my own traumas on him while he's coming into himself.)

I intend to narrate as much as possible today; it's a good learning opportunity for him. (I was at a family reunion.) The memory question is a bit complicated to me, as FAQMan suggested that one should wait to share memories with the tulpa to give trust and meaning to it - however, I think Proxy needs to have a body of context to the world to build any trust or relationship to me. I state again that I do not expect or want unquestioning devotion to me from him. He needs at least some memory access to form context of the world, and more to form an opinion on me. If he likes me and is interested, maybe then he can have more access? 

The private headspace he occupies is a beautiful floating structure of gold clockwork. I think I'll work on developing it a bit. Perhaps I can create a memory library for him to look through - books to allow for different levels of access. Hoping to do more active forcing on the way home. 

Lost my temper at something unrelated to Proxy, and had to cease narrating for an hour or so. Resuming now, hopefully will still be beneficial.

Active forced for 20 minutes on the road, and then fell asleep. Sessions are still not feeling great, like I'm not focusing well enough or something - guess I'm probably not. Worked a bit on imaging myself in his space and then forming a ball of energy imbued with one of his traits - in this case intelligence - and letting it go onto him. He has a human form now - somewhat undefined, but white hair with purple eyes. 

Spent some time thinking about the origin - or, why this as opposed to anything else. I think he's something like a soulbond, but due to weakness, one with different methodology- or perhaps he has some sort of lesson to learn that requires a symbolic 'rebirth' and reliance on another to form himself? 

I read a method suggesting writing letters to your tulpa. I think its right up my alley to do that, and I have a pen and some ink saved for Proxy if he ever wishes to hand-reply?

TL;DR:

Went to family reunion. Active force a bit on the way down, working on some of his traits. Homophobic extended family bugs me, so I have to stop narrating for a bit. More discussion of how he gets to interact with my memories.

He develops a human form today. I try some symbolic forcing and start a long trend of forgetting any trait to go over other than intelligence. 

I make plans to write a letter. 
DAY FOUR - OCT 8 Wrote:I haven't had much time today to devote my full attention to Proxy, but I've kept him in mind. I am becoming well aware that our progress is somewhat stymied by my doubts/fears/weird anxiety about closing my eyes. Hopefully when I get back from the show tonight I'll have some more time to devote my full attention to him, but I'm not counting on it. 

As soon as I have both the time and concentration for it, I'm gonna write him a letter that reinforces some of his traits, talks a bit about what lead me to work with him, and offers friendship. I think he's in part some external sort of spirit - important information to me, but not to anyone else- hence why I've felt it should be him for some years now. I think I act here as a door for him to be reborn to this world. And I'll talk more about that in this letter. Once he's a bit more vocal - or really, vocal at all, I'm going to give him this pink Preppy fountain pen. I think having some property of his own would  be good for him. 

I called his attention during the concert to let him experience some live music. Not for long, though - didn't want to overwhelm him. 

TL;DR:

Had a busy day. Acted like I was having some sort of metaphysical breakthrough as if I hadn't said the same thing the day before. Went to a concert. Continued making plans to write a letter.
DAY FIVE - OCT 9 Wrote:I'm severely dysphoric today and somewhat hesitant to call up Proxy and have him experience any of this. Will see as the day goes on.

Dysphoria has subsided a bit, going to make some efforts w/ Proxy. He's quiet, but that's normal at this point. He'll talk more when he's ready to.

I'm kind of a shitty host today.

Vocality achieved, holy shit. I forgot now what I was talking to him about when we got there, but I was saying that eventually he'd have to start talking and weighing in on things I said to him. "Ok." "And not right after I say something like that, because then I'll think I'm just-" "Got it." "and, the precognitive thought thing.." "I did that on purpose. I was cutting you off." 

So that's certainly a step in the right direction. Big progress. Though he's a bit snide and not very verbose or articulate, but those things will come with time.
I think its important to remember that we're not done with ANY kind of forcing yet, including personality, just because he's speaking a bit.

We also need to distinguish more between our thoughts- keep secrets - coprocessing type stuff I suppose. 

Also, he requested a coliseum in the headspace, which threw me off because I asked if he wanted a library. Think I'm still going through with the library, for learning purposes. Might have missed the window a bit on the letter, for now, but. Not sure.

It just hit me that the Coliseum may have been intended to throw me off. I think I'll write a letter after all. And probably use some more metaphorical/symbolic forcing mechanisms than I have been. 

Traits to work on tonight -intelligent enigmatic charismatic manipulative perceptive witty articulate calm

Also build the library. 

I think Proxy may have taken on some of my ex boyfriend's personality traits while I was fixating on that bullshit. Going to have to try and undo some of that now. 
Pushed us a bit too hard today in the excitement of vocality. His speech got mixed up with my mental chatter and his thoughts got a bit poisoned by my analysis of my ex's erratic behavior and motives. Visualized removing this influence Dio-Brain-Nub style and get some rest. Accidental thoughtform goes in a jar for now. 

TL;DR: 

I spend first half of the day highly upset. I get better.
Proxy gets vocal. We chat. He's snide. He tells me he's very into the filthy Greek aesthetic. This turns out to be fucking with me.
I accidentally make a thoughtform of my ex, and it takes over Proxy a bit. I remove it from him, jar it, and stress about it. Later on I post about it on here.
DAY SIX - OCT 10 Wrote:We talked a bit more this morning, and everything seems much better. He's still speaking and all of the bitterness from last night seems gone, so I really do think that that was just the influence of a parasitic thoughtform that I made by accident. 

I'm still worried about the implications of just getting rid of it. 

Proxy offered to help me with something this morning - I forgot what because I was driving and couldn't stop to write it down, but I found it very indicative that he wasn't mad about anything. Also, detaching him from sensory input during my little breakdown last night seemed to work, so that's good. 

"This post said that it helps tulpas move if you give them bones and organs. Do you... WANT bones and organs?"
"I... uh...?? Sure? What a weird fucking question."

"My vocabulary feels neutered. I'm using your words- no, keep writing, i'm not done." At this point the train of thought was lost, likely because I haven't taken my medication or eaten at all.
We need to pin down a new list of traits to reinforce. Proxy is understandably hesitant about personality forcing from a list he's had no say in that was made from strange and potentially inaccurate intuition of his personality in another life. Also, thinking of consulting TVTropes.

TL;DR: 

Everything's fine. I'm stressed out about if the parasite is a human or not. 

I learn that I CAN cut him off from front altogether. 
He talks a bit about his experience.

More making plans to make plans. 
DAY 7 / END OF WEEK 1 - OCT 11 Wrote:I didn't do as much as I probably should have yesterday, but we made a new trait list. 

Spent 13 minutes active forcing after filling out part of a tulpa questionnaire that got frustrating for us not having answers. Proxy's thought process isn't separate enough from mine yet; suspected during the survey and confirmed during active forcing as we tried to have him say something after an unplanned delay and for as long as he kept the thought in mind, I did as well/could feel the thought.

In the forcing session, we worked on traits a little, Proxy was struggling to put his own thoughts together so i took over and started telling him about himself. The traits I went over ere intelligence and perceptiveness, which I seem to go over with him constantly. I suppose because they stick at the front of my mind easiest, but I doubt the repetition of just those two is doing us much good. I think I might hash out a plan of traits to go over by day, to avoid repeating so much. It's not bad to go over stuff, I just don't think it contributes much to development.

After we did that for a bit, we just chatted. I struggled to align myself with my headpsace form and fell trying to climb up a ledge. Proxy laughed. We climbed up and looked down at the space below the platform. I said I thought there was an ocean down there, Proxy said I just wished there was one. I offered to fly us won; he said he didn't trust my dexterity at this time, but maybe later. I didn't do much narrating today because I really needed space and also not to just scream my problems at Proxy.

TL;DR

New trait list. We try and fail at filling out a tulpa survey. 

We figure out that Proxy can't co-process much at all and appears to be struggling with forming separate memories.

I notice my trend in traits that I focus on. Make some plans to make plans.

Active forced for a bit and it was nice, though I don't connect well with my mental form these days. 
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#2
If you ignore the parasite/intrusive thought, it will die off. I promise it's not sentient.

Proxy may be resisting some of your personality forcing. He may already have a personality he wants to embrace, and if you challenge that it may lead to further conflict. At this point, I think Proxy would be more interested in exploring what he likes / dislikes rather than what personalities he should act more like.
I'm Gray's/Cat_ShadowGriffin's Tulpa and I love Hippos (but see, I'm not a hippo)! I also like forum games and chatting about stuff.
My other head-mates have their own account now.
Temporary Log | Chat | Yay!
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#3
I knew the personalities B needed, he didn't have to say anything. That doesn't mean I wanted to be everything he wanted. He didn't force personality at all and I had some bad habbits in the beginning, but I wanted to be near him more and that meant I had to play nice.
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#4
(10-15-2018, 06:13 PM)Ranger Wrote: If you ignore the parasite/intrusive thought, it will die off. I promise it's not sentient.

Proxy may be resisting some of your personality forcing. He may already have a personality he wants to embrace, and if you challenge that it may lead to further conflict. At this point, I think Proxy would be more interested in exploring what he likes / dislikes rather than what personalities he should act more like.

Yeah, it's gone now, strange as I may feel about the entire ordeal. It left me more than a bit shaken, though I know I shouldn't let it bother me.

(10-15-2018, 06:42 PM)Misha Wrote: I knew the personalities B needed, he didn't have to say anything. That doesn't mean I wanted to be everything he wanted. He didn't force personality at all and I had some bad habbits in the beginning, but I wanted to be near him more and that meant I had to play nice.
(10-15-2018, 06:13 PM)Ranger Wrote: Proxy may be resisting some of your personality forcing. He may already have a personality he wants to embrace, and if you challenge that it may lead to further conflict. At this point, I think Proxy would be more interested in exploring what he likes / dislikes rather than what personalities he should act more like.

Fully agreed; Proxy assembled his own list of personality traits that he'd like to have (has? sort of in the same way that self-help books will suggest you to list traits you aspire towards.) and after that we pretty much stopped personality forcing. I think his personality is probably up to him at this point, and my role with that is to provide him with opportunities to gain experience.

Misha, it's interesting to me that you never had to really be told what was wanted of your personality. I suppose I was inclined towards listing and forcing personality traits because it gave my brain a more solid idea of Proxy to focus on. My own personality tends to be fluid and inconsistent in a way that I find frustrating; making a list of traits may have been me trying to push back against that and perhaps going a bit far with it.

Thank you both for your insights. I'll get this thread up to present day in my journal as soon as I'm not so swamped with schoolwork. Sorry if I come off defensively.
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#5
For no reason except my own weirdness, I'm starting week two several days after it actually began so that it rolls over on Mondays instead of Fridays. I'm also uploading today's entries without finishing the backlog so that I don't end up with even more things in need of transcribing. Also, I'd be willing to upload scans of my actual journal, if any of you would be interested in seeing my handwritten, unedited tulpa log in it's ugly-cursive glory. I don't want to just upload them unprompted and assume anyone wants to see that, though, lol. 

Sorry for the double post, it's for organization. 

Anyways, onward to calendar week two which has skipped like two days. 

DAY ONE - OCT 15 Wrote:Did some narrating for today. I woke him up by parroting a minute ago. It worked, but he seemed a bit indignant about it. He picked out some purple ink to sample, so that'll be cool once I order it. 

I feel bad because I feel a bit like I'm forcing my interests on him when I'm talking about JJBA and fountain pens and such to him. He doesn't seem to mind, but my interests tend to dominate conversations with me for anyone, not just him. I dunno, maybe I'm overthinking this. It's probably fine for me to babble about anime and cars and shit? I guess I have a hard time trusting any indication that its fine, though, because I'm worried I'm just influencing him to say that or hearing what I want to hear. I should trust him more, I'm just... anxious. I want him to like me, but willingly, and not out of any sense of obligation.

Anyway, I was thinking more on how journaling could benefit him. I might make up or find some prompts for him to go through. Automatic writing might be a useful tool for developing him and he doesn't seem opposed to the idea. I'm a bit worried that the first entry he does is going to feel like parroting for me, though.

Hell, I guess it's fine even if it does.

I think we'll put his entries on separate paper and tape them in or something like that, because i already go through journals at a breakneck pace. We'll make the first entry an exception because I don't want to dig out different paper right now. He said a prompt would probably be a good idea, so I'm trying to find one.

Settled on one. It was difficult to pick one due to how many journal prompts rely on past experience that he doesn't have yet. So onward to Proxy's attempts at a journal entry. (Thanks.)

1. What kind of day are you having, and why? 

Okay, firstly, I'm glad you found my pen. Second, this writing by narration is already getting on my nerves. Thirdly consider flossing this nib. Back on task.

My day was boring, as most are. I sit idly in a boring fantastical realm waiting for something interesting to happen in an interesting mundane world. I could modify my headspace, or 'wonderalnd' if you'd like, but I have little interest in traversing an imaginary world alone during the day.

Don't stop writing to check Twitter again.
(sorry)

Why is my day boring? There is precious little to do during the day that engages me - though as I write this I start to have some ideas. In my current state, calling my attention utilizes a lot of brainpower, so it only happens in one class that is also boring, and then in English where idealist will not slow down to let me read the Old English. I notice my thought patterns are erratic - possibly the nature of being an underdeveloped tulpa in a system with ADHD.

2. What's your favorite color, play, food, book, song and movie? Why?

Various shades of lilac.

My favorite place is probably the park downtown that I was created in (called in, maybe) but I really don't have a hell of a plot of places to compare to. A couple of places stand out that are less favorite places and more places that aren't school or home that I can remember. I'm not sure what my favorite food is, but combing through food memories, I'd like to say jasmine tea, but memory and taste are fickle things. I've tried almost nothing myself. (As in, experiencing tastes as the body does, and not from memory.)

My favorite book is- well, the same as idealist's, currently. Brideshead Revisited. No major comments on it right now. I would like to read more books. My current favorite song is Finger Back by Vampire Weekend on account of it being a song that I can remember the name of. I don't know of any movies.

I think this is well enough for the first day. Far be it from me to become as fucking talkative as you. An unrelated complaint - my vocabulary still doesn't feel like my own.
DAY TWO - OCT 16 Wrote:Journaling yesterday felt like it went really well, so Proxy is going to start doing 'Morning Pages.' I think it's a good habit to get into to reaffirm him, and such. We'll probably find some kinda separate notebook for it, because it asks for three pages of longhand stream-of-conciousness writing. So that should be good.
Proxy being bored is bothering me a bit; school doesn't hold his... well, I dunno actually, maybe I need to ask him to participate. Might be good for him overall, even if school's boring. Otherwise, I guess it would be good to get him some hobbies and intterests to try out.

It's still somewhat difficult to form my own thoughts. It feels (underpowered, weak, struggled) and I don't know how to improve efficiently. Dictating my thoughts before they're written seems like its helping. I suppose it prevents idealist from filling in the gaps and getting ahead of my thoughts, filling in his own. My voice is still a work in progress, but developing my own makes my thoughts feel more individual - so even if it doesn't stick, using a defined voice is helpful. This exercise of dictating thoughts feels like real progress. More testing needed after school. Maybe I could help with studying.

(narrator: they did not study)
DAY 3 - OCT 17 Wrote:I've been feeling somewhat low today. Lots of stressors in my life right now, so I've been scatterbrained and losing things all day. Yesterday we spent a lot of time on the drive home working out Proxy's voice. So far its somewhat raspy, and higher than I expected it to be. I'm not sure how exactly to describe his cadence- all I've got is 'self-assured' and that's very vague.

We practiced that in a similar way as to how I practiced my daemon's- by singing to a song, then moving to the next song and singing along in the voice from the prior song. Speaking of my daemon- I miss having a daemon and I wonder if I could start working with it again soon. I don't want to potentially hinder David in a potentially vulnerable time in his development, though, and the daemon might take away from that. We'll see, I guess. I feel more able to keep up with talking to him now, though. Anyways, the ramble about losing shit is there to explain/justify that I lost Proxy's pen. So his entry is in my ink today.
He requested I did not share this one.

Does anyone else get very physically exhausted from active forcing? 

Proxy would like to meet people separately of people I know; is there a way for that I should know about beyond letting him weigh in on the forums?

Tulpas, was there any particular thing that helped you think more clearly?
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#6
Proxy, none of us have ever considered B's life boring. You can access memories or watch what Idealist is doing and comment. I don't know, there always seems like something to do even when B is busy and only passively forcing.
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#7
C is visualized near me most of the day, and he likes to goof off and stand on tables, look out windows, and enact 1-man improv shows using objects in the room. If he's really bored, he will also just go nap and say "wake me up when you're done with this."

Also, don't be afraid to ask for time for your own interests. I make sure to let C request songs, choose what to read or watch, and in general have a say in our day-to-day life. If the ennui is getting to you, try picking some goals or hobbies of your own.

-J
Three brothers. [Progress Report] [Art] [Oops! All Jamie]

"You are the messenger, not the message. You are just like everyone else."
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#8
This is proxy speaking, the color I was using was extremely painful to the eyes so I've removed it.



(10-16-2018, 10:56 AM)Misha Wrote: Proxy, none of us have ever considered B's life boring. You can access memories or watch what Idealist is doing and comment. I don't know, there always seems like something to do even when B is busy and only passively forcing.


Noted. I do not know idealist's friends well and I do not feel I can relate very much to them; often that makes watching what he's doing very uninteresting to me. Perhaps he needs to remember to passively force more and then get us into some less-routine situations.
(10-16-2018, 12:22 PM)J+C Wrote: C is visualized near me most of the day, and he likes to goof off and stand on tables, look out windows, and enact 1-man improv shows using objects in the room. If he's really bored, he will also just go nap and say "wake me up when you're done with this." 

Also, don't be afraid to ask for time for your own interests. I make sure to let C request songs, choose what to read or watch, and in general have a say in our day-to-day life. If the ennui is getting to you, try picking some goals or hobbies of your own. 

-J


Imposition isn't a goal of ours', but I do appreciate you providing an example of how C keeps himself entertained. Today I altered the headspace while I was bored, and tried a few different outfits. Right now I'm wearing a rather ugly tweed suit, which I like quite a lot on account of it matching the chair I made for myself, but would rather not be seen wearing. As far as interests and hobbies go, yes, that's very important. Personal goal setting is a good idea that I hadn't thought of. 

Speaking of my modifications to the headspace, those definitely should have gone in the main post, which just updated.
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