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Poll: Policy on badges on #tulpa.info?
You do not have permission to vote in this poll.
Ask users to remove them in all cases
25.00%
19 25.00%
Allow badges for tulpas who are available to chat, but not for nonvocal or away ones
63.16%
48 63.16%
Allow all badges
11.84%
9 11.84%
Total 76 vote(s) 100%
* You voted for this item. [Show Results]

IRC chat [badges]
#31
Sands:

I think that I see your reasoning behind calling it attention whoring. You (and I am probably wrong) think that it is like showing off the tupper, even if it cannot speak. If it was for this reason then yes I would agree.


I think that I see your reasoning but it is a bit exaggerated. Is it attention whoring to change our names to protect anonymity? Should I just use my real name and say "HEY ALL LOOK AT ME I HAVE TUPPER BWEEEEEEEEEE?" So what about a compromise here? What if we DID allow the tuppers to pick their own nicks? I don't think Seraph gives less of a shit, since nobody can figure out who I am anyways, so what does it matter?


But anonymity alone is a weak argument. Is it attention whoring to have your name and your tupper's name side by side? I would think the opposite: that it encourages difference between tuppers and hosts and so on. Yes I think that opening two clients and flipping between them is a better option but it does get cumbersome or even undoable when your computer/phone is shit.


Unless you also keep two clients open, then nagging all those who use badges is hypocricy. Changing from "Name" to "Tupper" and right back to "Name" when they are done is somewhat stifling to the tupper, I would think, unless the nick is one that you all agreed on. If it isn't then it is just hypocricy. I say this because somebody (again I don't remember exactly who) was going on about letting tuppers be themselves. Is it really any better to shift between two nicks constantly, and go back to the one you call yourself when the tupper is done chatting?

But it IS much more practical to use a badge. A reasonable one like name[tupper]. Exaggerating and saying that all nicks are stupid because a couple people use the name[tupperA]{tupperB}|tupperC|\tupperD\... IS rediculous. Nicks like that ARE attention whoring and defeat the purpose of practicality with toolong nicks. My tupper uses the IRC to communicate and as a method for enhancing vocality. It is good practice for me "stepping aside" and allowing the tupper to speak. We usually do this 60/40. It isn't really practical to constantly switch between different nicks.


I think there should be a compromise between Sands and those who agree with him, and those who have more important things to worry about. Why not just allow one badge maximum for the most active tupper, and change it when necessary if it really sticks in your craw that badly? I don't remember who said it but someone mentioned that it is also stupid to have everyone have the "tulpamancer12345" nicks.


That's my counterargument. Maybe I am just a newfagattentionwhoredumbass[retard] since I have been here only a few months but I guess that makes me less of a member compared to the high and mighty oldfags who have been here for a whopping 2 years.


Okay Sands. Rip me to shreds.
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#32
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(04-17-2014, 12:00 PM)Argentum Wrote: Okay Sands. Rip me to shreds.

Sure. Now that that's done, let's look at the writing.

(04-17-2014, 12:00 PM)Argentum Wrote: You (and I am probably wrong) think that it is like showing off the tupper, even if it cannot speak. If it was for this reason then yes I would agree.

It has been used that way. Why do you think "only vocal tuppers" badge rules are in place these days? Assuming they still are, of course.

(04-17-2014, 12:00 PM)Argentum Wrote: Should I just use my real name and say "HEY ALL LOOK AT ME I HAVE TUPPER BWEEEEEEEEEE?"

Sidenote, funnily most tuppers use their real names. Sure, they can't really be doxxed using that name, but badging has been backed up by claiming that this way the tupper can use their own name, because you'll rarely have another identical host[tupper] nick around, while there's a thousand Lyras around. To that, do what the hosts do. Use nicknames. I have faith in you, tuppers. If your host has zero creativity, please show us that you have much more.

(04-17-2014, 12:00 PM)Argentum Wrote: What if we DID allow the tuppers to pick their own nicks?

Please do. I am 100% sure they can come up with something better than [name].

(04-17-2014, 12:00 PM)Argentum Wrote: I would think the opposite: that it encourages difference between tuppers and hosts and so on.

I disagree. If anything, it makes them less so and gives less time for each of the tupper/host pair to spend talking to others without having to share their time with the other one. After all, these days host[tupper] should only be there if both of them are talking, if #.info rules are still the same and actually enforced.

But it's impossible to give them both the same amount of time if they share this time. One is always going to overtake the other and in many cases, it's probably going to be the host and the tupper won't be able to do much talking.

But when you instead do /nick host and /nick tulpa when the main speaker changes, they are going to be much more separate. Not only are their names, well, different and not linked to each other anymore, you also give us a main speaker who is going to be the main speaker. It's their time, not the other one's, no need to share and waste time that way. By allowing the tupper to have their very own nick that isn't linked to yours, you give them their own time to talk where you won't be talking and needed to constantly comment on things. It's now their time.

Badging hurts that. It forces them to share and they already have to share everything. So come on, give them at least this little bit to be separate from you.

(04-17-2014, 12:00 PM)Argentum Wrote: Unless you also keep two clients open, then nagging all those who use badges is hypocricy.

Far from it. I don't badge and I use /nick without any problems. And those who choose to keep two or more clients open have enjoyed it. It won't work for everyone, but if you insist on having all of your tupper names around then that's really the only way. We both agree on the multiple name badges, here.

(04-17-2014, 12:00 PM)Argentum Wrote: Changing from "Name" to "Tupper" and right back to "Name" when they are done is somewhat stifling to the tupper, I would think, unless the nick is one that you all agreed on. ... Is it really any better to shift between two nicks constantly, and go back to the one you call yourself when the tupper is done chatting?

I believe you have misunderstood everything. You're not supposed to change from one nick to another constantly. That is not only annoying to yourself, it is annoying to every single person you are currently talking to.

You pick a main speaker for the current topic. That one is the nick. If someone wants to make one comment about something, you don't change the goddamn nick. Seriously, if you had a friend in the room with you (like a tupper...) and they were sort of following the chat but didn't have their own client open or their own nickname to use for commenting... How would you post their comments if they really wanted to reply to something? Well, I'm sure you would say "derp said hi" or something.

As far as it's only a couple of replies now and then, that method works. It works for our physical friends as well, doesn't it? If this other friend really wants into the chat however, then you are going to have to let them be the main speaker. Let them do the talking. In this case, let the tupper take the nick and let them speak without you constantly butting in.

(04-17-2014, 12:00 PM)Argentum Wrote: It is good practice for me "stepping aside" and allowing the tupper to speak. We usually do this 60/40. It isn't really practical to constantly switch between different nicks.

Then go all the way and really practice stepping aside and letting the tupper speak. 100/0. Do that, try. As long as they or you want or set aside certain time slots for both of you to talk as the main speaker. I'm sure you'll learn a lot more. No switching nicks, unless the main speaker changes. That is truly stepping aside and letting the tupper be themself, as separate from you as you can.
The THE SUBCONCIOUS ochinchin occultists frt.sys (except Roswell because he doesn't want to be a part of it)
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#33
Sands Wrote:It has been used that way. Why do you think "only vocal tuppers" badge rules are in place these days? Assuming they still are, of course.


How does one test if a tupper is vocal or not and act appropriately? I could lie and say yes or whatever, or even worse I could give ambiguious answers like "I ask questions and get head pressure and this and that and then I type it blah blah blah." Then when the admin inevitably makes them change the nick they go on a piddle parade and bitch about it. I guess what I am asking is how exactly do you enforce that rule?


Sands Wrote:Sidenote, funnily most tuppers use their real names. Sure, they can't really be doxxed using that name, but badging has been backed up by claiming that this way the tupper can use their own name, because you'll rarely have another identical host[tupper] nick around, while there's a thousand Lyras around. To that, do what the hosts do. Use nicknames. I have faith in you, tuppers. If your host has zero creativity, please show us that you have much more.


I actually did find that interesting when I look around at the community. I especially find it wierd that tuppers don't give themselves "usernames" or nicks, even when the host has given them a name, like the 3.5 billion Rainbow Dashes/Dashies/Dashes/Rainbow Pie, and the thousands of other horse derived names.


Seraph, Argentums Tupper Wrote:I didn't choose a nickname here or on the IRC because I chose my own name already. Most humans are named by their parents, and therefore have no say in their names. Since I did, I find no reason to change it to a nickname when I already like the one I have. There is also no reason to change it because I am bound to Argentum's body, or more accurately his mind, and since his true name is hidden from the internet, we can both remain anonymous.

Sands Wrote:I disagree. If anything, it makes them less so and gives less time for each of the tupper/host pair to spend talking to others without having to share their time with the other one. After all, these days host[tupper] should only be there if both of them are talking, if #.info rules are still the same and actually enforced.

But it's impossible to give them both the same amount of time if they share this time. One is always going to overtake the other and in many cases, it's probably going to be the host and the tupper won't be able to do much talking.

But when you instead do /nick host and /nick tulpa when the main speaker changes, they are going to be much more separate. Not only are their names, well, different and not linked to each other anymore, you also give us a main speaker who is going to be the main speaker. It's their time, not the other one's, no need to share and waste time that way. By allowing the tupper to have their very own nick that isn't linked to yours, you give them their own time to talk where you won't be talking and needed to constantly comment on things. It's now their time.

Badging hurts that. It forces them to share and they already have to share everything. So come on, give them at least this little bit to be separate from you.


Fede-lasse Wrote:Im back.


Now that actually makes sense. What I was referring to is by using badges, it promotes independance to a point. Tuppers always have been and always will be bound to their creators (host makes tuppers sound like parasites) and it helps with issues of connecting creator/tupper groups without having to explicitly state it.


But your argument actually makes sense. Maybe I *gasp* don't have to comment on everything.
In general I think I misunderstood the argument and now it makes more sense. However, I am still confused why get so passionate about it. They are just nicks on a very underpopulated IRC server.
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#34
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(04-18-2014, 12:48 AM)Argentum Wrote: How does one test if a tupper is vocal or not and act appropriately? I could lie and say yes or whatever, or even worse I could give ambiguious answers like "I ask questions and get head pressure and this and that and then I type it blah blah blah." Then when the admin inevitably makes them change the nick they go on a piddle parade and bitch about it. I guess what I am asking is how exactly do you enforce that rule?

Simple. Does the badge ever talk? #.info rules require for the badges to talk about the same as the non-badge in the name, so if there is no talking then the badge is against the rule. Sure, it could be a vocal tupper who is just quiet at the moment - or ignored by the host because they got caught up in chatting, a problem with sharing the chat time - but in most cases, whether or not the tupper is vocal will be found out when the host talks about it. In the past, when someone had a badge, you could of course ask them about the tulpa or talk to the tulpa. In many cases, the host replied "oh they're not vocal yet". Mystery solved.

Quote:I didn't choose a nickname here or on the IRC because I chose my own name already. Most humans are named by their parents, and therefore have no say in their names. Since I did, I find no reason to change it to a nickname when I already like the one I have. There is also no reason to change it because I am bound to Argentum's body, or more accurately his mind, and since his true name is hidden from the internet, we can both remain anonymous.

Certainly, for a tupper there's not much of a reason to choose a nickname to protect their identity, as they don't really have any legal documents floating around about them. But a nickname can also be a way to be unique in a certain community, as there are those couple of hundred Rainbow Dashes and Lyras around. But even a host called "John Smith" could go with their real name and they would never be found, because there's so many people with that name.

In some cases, the nickname you want is taken, no matter if it's your real name or not. Then you gotta get creative, yeah? So this could be less of an issue about staying anonymous and more about expressing yourself. If it's through your real name, go ahead. If not, go ahead. That's why it's so easy to /nick.

(04-18-2014, 12:48 AM)Argentum Wrote: (host makes tuppers sound like parasites)

Think of it as more like a host to a party. Creator could have some god-like implications...

(04-18-2014, 12:48 AM)Argentum Wrote: In general I think I misunderstood the argument and now it makes more sense. However, I am still confused why get so passionate about it. They are just nicks on a very underpopulated IRC server.

Well, do keep in mind that the tuppercommunities were and some still are hosted on rizon. Which is much bigger than the poor excuse of a server they forced the move on, so they caused a community split and now what used to be big is quite tiny and quiet.

Tuppers make many of us passionate and in the cases of badges, they do quite often objectify the tulpas in question or are otherwise used for showing off how many tulpas you have. That is where the name "badge" came from, even, it's like wearing your tulpa as a badge of honor or something. It's pretty funny that the pro-badgers use a derogative term to describe what they do...

Well, that started going a bit off-topic, but what I'm trying to say is that being passionate about it has actually caused things to change. Multi-tupper badges aren't allowed now, they're completely banned on the forums and on #.info, you're only supposed to have them when both of you are talking the same right at that very moment. Doubt that works much, but it does mean the mods who pushed that change do agree with us.

I think it's very important to get rid of badging so we can promote tuppers having all the time for themselves without always having to share it with the host, which badging requires as the rules don't allow badging if one is quiet. I truly believe that would be the best for everyone, but as long as badges are an easy alternative to show off that you have a tupper while you talk and barely give much time for the tulpa to reply themselves, you're not really doing what you think you're doing. Giving them the role of a main speaker from time to time would be useful to you both: one gets to finally talk to everyone without the host getting in the way, one gets to realize what kind of sacrifices they have to do if they truly wish to live with a tulpa. You can't share everything, sometimes you're going to have to split the time between you two for the best results.
The THE SUBCONCIOUS ochinchin occultists frt.sys (except Roswell because he doesn't want to be a part of it)
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#35
I always use a nickname, both here and on IRC chat channels. As most will know, Donna is my first name. When another tulpa wants to talk they just use the convention of :
Watchdog 3 Wrote:Watchdog 3 says: "This is how I talk, on the rare occasions that I do."
I suppose I'm in the reverse situation [to most]. My human, Kevin, almost never talks on-line.

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Heck, for the first six months or so of kerin and company being on this site most people didn't even realize there is a Kevin (This account used to be kerin back when my creator was running things.)


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