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[Misc] Am I doing this for the wrong reasons?
#1
TL;DR I want to use my tulpa to help me access my subconscious to help me solve some personal issues, but also cuz I need a friend. Is that wrong? Even though I have the purest of intentions?



Hey guys, brand new member S117 here. First post ever.

let me just start off by saying that I'm really happy to be in a community of like-minded people who are so interested in this sort of extreme metaphysical topic.

So I've been interested in Tulpas ever since I read the CreepyPasta story. I know, I know, it's complete BS. Even though it scared the S**T outta me, I never really believed it to be true.

Once I started to read up on it a little more I fell in love with the idea.

So here's the thing.

I've been contemplating the idea heavily now for about a month or so, and maybe even a little bit longer. I didn't wanna just rush into it without knowing the pros/cons, cuz I'm not some little kid. (I'm 21). I'm also a very loving and caring person and very altruistic and I know the weight of responsibility that comes with creating sentient life. So I need your opinion guys and gals.

I want to create a tulpa for a few reasons.

1.) I think it'd be cool to have a friend who fully understands me and I would never have to worry about him/her/it ever leaving me or thinking me weird for my past, my actions, etc.. I am extremely insecure when it comes to letting people in and I have bad approval seeking issues that cause those abandonment fears. I fear losing somebody because then I won't like myself if they don't like me. So hence the tulpa because it will always like me.

2.) I need a tulpa because I would want it/him/her to help me understand myself in ways I've never imagined. I feel like I have a lot of personal issues( not terribly major ones) that I can't seem to solve by myself. (I'm usually pretty good at that.) Alot of repressed and buried feelings and emotions and things i've never been able to think about and/or understand. So I feel that by letting a tulpa into my subconscious *with my permission (I've read about it) that it will be able to help me understand myself.. But this raises my first issue.

Is it wrong to want to have a tulpa help me do this? Because I feel like that might qualify as being used as a 'tool'; which I've read in a few great guides that you shouldn't do because it dehumanizes the tulpa. But using it as a 'tool' is not my intention and I would have the utmost respect for my tulpa and care for him/it/her. I just think getting some help from someone who can literally understand me in ways nobody ever has would help me greatly..

Which brings me to my last question:

3.) Would it be wrong to have a tulpa help me access my subconscious to help me do things?

Now I know I can't force a tulpa to do anything. I mean, I COULD, but I never would because that's just f****d up. But what I mean is like helping me to retain information easier. Or recalling memories. Or helping me use knowledge I already have in certain situations to help me in those situations... Example..... I have this desire to increase my Sherlock Holmes like powers of observation. It's a subject I've been very interested in for years and have studied things like body language and lying indicators, etc... but sometimes the load is too much for me and I have trouble recalling things I've learned to help me.

Would it be wrong to want to have the tulpa help me out with these things? I feel like I wouldn't be using it for 'bad' intentions, but I want to know if this would have any negative harm on my tulpa because I wouldn't want to do that.


So yea. Here I am guys, all wide and open and ready for your advice. Please help me out on this one. I know a few people mentioned that, if, in your desire to make a tulpa, you have negative intentions, then you need to meditate and purify your intentions, otherwise s**t gets all f****d up with your tulpa. So help me out and let me know if I'm doing the right things...

Thanks! Smile
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#2
I personally see nothing fundamentally wrong with your reasons. Some others may disagree, but I usually reduce these morale problems to a single question :
Would you use a friend to do that sort of things if you could ?
That may sound like cheesy and obvious advice but it helped me at times.
As for your number 2, that's what friend do for each other, in a less psychic way. Or at least that's what I think and that's how I live my life.
If you have respect and care for your tulpa, (s)he'll know it.
These are not the reasons you have to worry about if you decide to make a tulpa.
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#3
You sound like you're self-doubting your motives, one could argue that you worrying about this proves how much you really care; that you don't want to be a bad host.

There's nothing wrong with letting your tulpa friend help you! I mean if you're going to have someone who knows you inside and out, I'd even imagine that they'd love to do their best to help you. Of course that'd really be up to them. You don't seem the type to force your tulpa into helping you if they don't want to.

Don't fret so much, you really don't sound like you have bad intentions! Just be there for your tulpa, and I'm certain they will be there for you. C:>

Oh, and as far as negative things being pushed onto your tulpa. Well, I figure first before you could really do anything about having them help you, the tulpa would need to be sentient enough to actually be of help. So by then, you can just ask them if they're okay with it. If you forced them to do it, then yeah, I'm pretty sure there'd be some negativity there. But otherwise I don't think it could hurt.

Mm, but I'm not sure how negative memories and emotions would effect them. Like I personally don't know what would happen if your tulpa, say, ever came across a traumatic memory with you and then experienced it them self. I haven't really dug into anything big with my tulpa friend, so some more knowledgeable folk would have to help you there!
“From my rotting body,
flowers shall grow
and I am in them
and that is eternity.”
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#4
There should be nothing wrong with your intentions. However, you must make sure you make a tulpa for the purpose of being together with them and improving yourself(and your tulpa). Do not see the tulpa as a friend who helps you memorise things and spit them out whenever you want them. They themselves choose to help you memorise/recall things; even if you make them forcefully remember things, they can choose not to tell you either.

Personally I have an intention to make a second tulpa called "Maya" to advise me(as a 3D modeller) on the software Autodesk Maya, but I keep in mind that my main objective is to make a second tulpa for my current tulpa as a friend.
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#5
1 sounds like a good reason. You want them as a friend and someone to relate to.

2 and 3 are fine to ask a tulpa to help you with, and are easier with their assistance. But you can do them without a tulpa too. If these were the only reasons, I'd say do them yourself. It'd be less effort than making a tulpa, and a tulpa made only for these reasons would be more a tool than a friend, which is a kind of sucky existence to have.
Lyra: human female, ~17
Evan: boy, ~14, was an Eevee
Anera: anime-style girl, ~12; Lyra made her
My blog :: Time expectations are bad (forcing time targets are good though)
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#6
While a tulpa should not be used as a "tool", one could argue that all tulpas were made to serve some purpose or another. It is not possible to create a tulpa for entirely selfless reasons, and you'll find that a lot of people around here have created tulpas for similar reasons as yours.
Though I do want to mention that you should not have too high of expectations in the way of mental enhancements. The effectiveness of tulpas attempting to aid such functions as memory recall is still heavily debated; this is to not even mention "subconscious" unravelling and enlightenment. If such things are of your primary reasons for wanting to create a tulpa, then perhaps you may want to reconsider. I think it is smartest to undergo the process with the assumption that they will be no more than companions. That said, even mere companions can do their fair share of help. They can pay attention to different things than you, and thus notice things that you did not. They--like other people--may recall certain things better, or in a different way than you can, and be able to help in that way.
And of course, for some people, one of the greatest assets of self-discovery is having someone who is close, and will listen as you unravel yourself.
"If this can be avoided, it should. If it can't, then it would be better if it could be. If it happened and you're thinking back to it, try and think back further. Try not to avoid it with your mind. If any of this is possible, it may be helpful. If not, it won't be."
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#7
S117 Wrote:TL;DR I want to use my tulpa to help me access my subconscious to help me solve some personal issues, but also cuz I need a friend. Is that wrong? Even though I have the purest of intentions?

You can “access” your subconscious, or unconscious thoughts through other means than just a tulpa (e.g. lucid/non-lucid dreaming, meditation). It may be probable for them to access the confines of your mind if you’re willing to presume they can become vicarious companions. Think about it, if someone is willing to go through a self-fulfilling prophecy of believing tulpas as companions, along with whatever beliefs and conceptual frameworks they have of them in general, those other aspects (e.g. vicarious insight, coping with existential strife, supplementary cognitive development) may eventually fall into place at some point.

For example, if you had the intention of going through some vent session with your tulpa to get your thoughts out, and imagined them consoling you, or something like that, if they responded and gave you a way to assess those struggles, that would probably imply that they have those aspects already (e.g. whatever you see a sentient and sapient entity is capable of having).

If you’re asking if it’s wrong, you’d also be questioning whether or not you should take insight from any thought-forms/dream characters in your natural sleep that may emulate sentience, and providing guidance in your life. Who am I, or anyone to state that it’s morally and ethically wrong for someone to take advantage of that potential our mind can give us if we learn to seek and prepare for it?

I guess when you wonder if it could be “wrong,” you could really be doubting your ability to reciprocate with an entity that would be implied in giving you vicarious insight, and other cognitive “advancements” you would presume they could do. In other words, maybe you’re worried that if they accomplish this desire of yours, that you would take their contributions for granted, and end up just mooching off of their thinking instead.

I don’t know about you, but if I were in your position where I’m contemplating how to take insight, and reciprocate, it would be just like treating another individual with respect for the time they took to provide that information to you. It shouldn't really be a hard thing to do, unless you’re inept in interpersonal skills or something. This experience is something going on in your perception of reality, you have the privacy along with the companion(s) you decide to create and interact with. No one can give you absolute moral and ethics on what to, and not to do. There’s not really a black and white lifestyle on tulpas. There’s gray, truckloads of gray, and you have that freedom to create personal significance along with your tulpa.

The only obstacle at this point would be your doubting, and any struggles in trying to embrace the potential for liberation with your tulpa.

S117 Wrote:1.) I think it'd be cool to have a friend who fully understands me and I would never have to worry about him/her/it ever leaving me or thinking me weird for my past, my actions, etc.. I am extremely insecure when it comes to letting people in and I have bad approval seeking issues that cause those abandonment fears. I fear losing somebody because then I won't like myself if they don't like me. So hence the tulpa because it will always like me.

Well, think about it this way. Those people you interact and engage in a give-take relationship with, if you don’t see them feeling happy, then I guess it doesn’t really make you happy. So, when people aren’t able to reciprocate any actions of positivity from you, and other gregarious behaviors in a positive manner, in comes the insecurities. So now that you’ve researched into the concept of tulpas, you may feel the need that they can always like you, or maybe you’re implying something of unconditional love that where people you interact with would pale in comparison of how much you feel a tulpa could enjoy and be happy with their host.

Because the type of circumstance you’re worried with the sense of abandonment is more of a conditional type of love. In other words, you fear losing the person more than you actually love them. And with a tulpa, the only way you could really lose them is if you didn’t really pay much attention to their existence over the course of your life. And because of this, and how their existence can last for as long as you can, there’s no more (or barely any) gaps that the insecurities of abandonment, and other fears can do to you anymore. And if this is one of your reasons in creating a tulpa (someone that can empathize for you), welcome to tulpa.info.

There can be a whole philosophical debate on whether or not tulpas can replace actual gregarious interactions with others, or balancing the interactions, but in the end, it’s up to who you ask. At first, it may seem cool to have someone that can understand you, probably even more than you know yourself, because then you could imagine all the possibilities of progressively improving yourself.

Then comes the potential of fulfilling urges for self-actualization, or whatever purpose-driven objectives you may have in mind. And maybe you learn how to rekindle those gregarious competencies you had, and appreciating the existence of others if you are able to appreciate the existence of a thought form who can exist for as long as you can. Or maybe you learn how to be more content with yourself, and feeling less needy in trying to validate your sense of self, your ontology, and other aspects of your identity through others.

It depends on how the person wants to live their life, how they’ve been living their life, and how they’re going to assess having their tulpas being a part of the life. Again, truckloads of gray on the pragmatic ways to live in this reality.

S117 Wrote:2.) I need a tulpa because I would want it/him/her to help me understand myself in ways I've never imagined. I feel like I have a lot of personal issues( not terribly major ones) that I can't seem to solve by myself. (I'm usually pretty good at that.) Alot of repressed and buried feelings and emotions and things i've never been able to think about and/or understand. So I feel that by letting a tulpa into my subconscious *with my permission (I've read about it) that it will be able to help me understand myself.. But this raises my first issue.

The whole asking for permission thing just seems to be doing it out of courtesy that they (your tulpa) can’t access certain confines of your mind if you don’t want them to. If they have the potential of accessing your mind in general, it would kind of be like shooting yourself in the foot of granting them permission of something they could potentially do anyway. It kind of implies their tulpas can be otherworldly beings, or live in some paradoxical state of existence to have constraints on what they can, and can’t access. In other words, that person would feel their tulpa wouldn’t require pre-existing memories, or whatever components of sentience their host has, even though their existence would probably tie into the mental states of their host either way.

I guess people have their own subjective interpretation of implying that a tulpa can be more autonomous (but not to the point where they’re absolutely dichotomous, and living in some metaphysical plane of reality, or something like that). Funny how when it comes to a tulpa’s sense of individuality, people probably harbor paradoxical/dualistic implications to try and conceptualize autonomy.

For me personally, when I see people worry about what their tulpa can, or cannot access, there could be underlying reasons for that (e.g. fearing the tulpa self-actualizes in a negative manner, or they capitalize on a person’s incompetence, insecurities, and weaknesses). But here’s the thing though, and allow me to bring back to your first reason you listed before; if you wanted to have someone that could like you, appreciate you, express unconditional love to you, offer vicarious insight, and all sorts of things we would want in an individual we trust, sometimes them stating things that makes you feel uneasy could be something of value.

In other words, there could be potential in overcoming tribulations with whatever internal conflict you may have with yourself that your tulpa expresses in a blunt and earnest manner that makes you feel uneasy. Sometimes in order for us to truly grow, we have to learn how to overcome adversity, and imagine ourselves changing after doing so. Otherwise, we end up in some cyclical deadlock with being inches close from furthering our understanding of ourselves, only to stop because we’re in denial of embracing our flaws, insecurities, etc.

S117 Wrote:Is it wrong to want to have a tulpa help me do this? Because I feel like that might qualify as being used as a 'tool'; which I've read in a few great guides that you shouldn't do because it dehumanizes the tulpa. But using it as a 'tool' is not my intention and I would have the utmost respect for my tulpa and care for him/it/her. I just think getting some help from someone who can literally understand me in ways nobody ever has would help me greatly..

It’s interesting how people always seem to attribute their tulpas as being used as tools when they would have potential in offering insight, and being helpful in general. I guess maybe we unconsciously have bias on them compared to real people we meet in our daily lifestyle. So when we try to go through self-fulfilling prophecies of treating them as sentient beings, it takes a while to ease ourselves away from attributing any attempts of us wanting help from them as them being served as tools, or some other term that seems to devalue their potential of being more than that.

Maybe when you get to the point where your tulpa becomes more than what you thought they could be is when you’ll realize that attributing any attempts of you asking for help as them being used as a tools would be an understatement. Even though I can’t really give you empirical proof on what a tulpa can truly be capable of, you probably may embrace just treating them as any other person in your life, maybe much more than that.

S117 Wrote:3.) Would it be wrong to have a tulpa help me access my subconscious to help me do things?

Depends on who you ask. But just note that who you ask will have their own upbringing, conceptual framework, social conditioning, beliefs, and such to formulate their answer to your query. Don’t let the philosophies, morals, and ethics of others constrain you from developing your own way of living with a tulpa. It’s nice that you want insight from others, but again, pros/cons, right/wrongs are just mental constructs we create in how we feel is a pragmatic way of existing.

There may be underlying concepts that feel as if there’s inherent ways to live with your tulpa, but the concepts probably have a transient value; not the kind of long lasting inherent value that would exist despite of whatever mental states exist. Because if there were inherent values that would exist independently from the mental states of what we attribute value in, that would imply all sorts of things (e.g. some teleological purpose of the universe, divine intervention, and other metaphysical, supernatural, and maybe even religious aspects as well).

S117 Wrote:But what I mean is like helping me to retain information easier. Or recalling memories. Or helping me use knowledge I already have in certain situations to help me in those situations... Example..... I have this desire to increase my Sherlock Holmes like powers of observation. It's a subject I've been very interested in for years and have studied things like body language and lying indicators, etc... but sometimes the load is too much for me and I have trouble recalling things I've learned to help me.

I would imagine this kind of bond with your tulpa on these matters would develop over the years. Again, people give their own experiential cases of what they feel to be cognitive augmentation, mental enhancements, and such, but if you’re wondering if you can do all these things, you’ll probably just have figure it out throughout the journey if you want to create a tulpa. You can still develop those cognitive and meta-cognitive abilities through your own volition, a tulpa isn’t really of upmost importance to develop yourself.

S117 Wrote:Would it be wrong to want to have the tulpa help me out with these things? I feel like I wouldn't be using it for 'bad' intentions, but I want to know if this would have any negative harm on my tulpa because I wouldn't want to do that.

What you conceptualize as “wrong” could really just be how much you’re not willing to bend your own morals and ethics a bit before you end up being incapable of easing your conscience.

S117 Wrote:Please help me out on this one. I know a few people mentioned that, if, in your desire to make a tulpa, you have negative intentions, then you need to meditate and purify your intentions, otherwise s**t gets all f****d up with your tulpa.

Two words: Self-fulfilling prophecies. I think it's three, unless "-" makes it one word

People probably do the purifying, and other symbolic aspects because they worry their tulpas are innately negative and detrimental. Which would be kind of ironic to really imply there’s some aspect of yourself that would want to crumble your very way of life instead of potentially enhancing it in some way. Or it could just be some symbolic experience of easing internal conflicts with yourself, you know, the whole battle between good and evil inside yourself.

S117 Wrote:So help me out and let me know if I'm doing the right things...

There aren't really absolute rights or wrongs, at least from my perspective. It’s your existence, and potentially the tulpa you may be interested in creating. If you’re wondering if you’re doing the right things, you’re probably just asking if you’re doing the right things with your existence.


Go forth, and embrace what you’ve been wanting all along. Societal implications on what one should not do, and/or not ought to do with their tulpas becomes bullshit (especially if they're so demanding) when you realize people make their own subjective meaning for personal significance. More freedom for you, and your soon to be tulpa.
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#8
The way I see it, morals only exist as a human concept. They don't exist in nature. Therefore, in reality, nothing can be morally "right" or "wrong."

But compared to some of the more questionable reasons to make a tulpa, I'd say yours are perfectly fine.
"Don't listen to friends when the friend inside you says 'Do this.'" -Gandhi

Tulpa Name: Ellie
Created: 11/13/13
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#9
You reason's are fine, bro.


/thread
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#10
I think of tulpas as friends. They can do a lot of things for us, like help us find repressed memories, but as long as we treat them as friends/companions first and helpers secondly, you shouldn't have to worry about dehumanizing them. Just don't automatically assume that they'll always be ready to do something. Not that they don't want to, but tulpas can be unpredictable sometimes, and there are things that they want to do as well. And assuming they are always at your beck and call would dehumanize them, but as long as you treat them as friends who are also guides/counselors, then it'll be fine.
Will list tulpas when I get things sorted out in my head.
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