Hello There, Guest! Register


[Misc] Established tulpa disappeared after switching out
JGC Offline
✨✨✨
Registered

Posts: 260
Threads: 27
Joined: Sep 2018
#1
 
Established tulpa disappeared after switching out

Not really sure where to start on this one. I might seem a little detached in tone because the emotional aspect of this isn't as important as figuring it out, right now. 

Gavin was kind enough to switch in to the front for three days, for a large portion of which I was completely dormant/inactive, without a sense of presence. However, I'm always a few words away, all it takes is "Jamie wake up" and there I am. 

I worry that part of this may be because, we didn't have a proper switch back: I was talking and started slipping in front, and Gavin just let me have it instead of fighting it. Within an hour I was very deeply derealized and couldn't shake the feeling that I was dead, that I didn't really exist. I went to bed and the next day, it wasn't any better. 

I realized that Gavin was being pretty quiet, but we talked and he seemed to think, it would help me get rooted in the front if he was quiet, because we have the tendency to blur more and more when I am dissociated or derealized. So, we decided, I wouldn't bother him, I'd let him be quiet. Not silent- just not a constant presence, more like talking a few times an hour. 

I should have realized yesterday, I should have forced him or something, when he spoke up and said "I don't feel good," because that is exactly what Cassidy will say before losing the front, blurring, or having some other uncomfortable identity separation thing. But instead, I told him I still didn't mind his being quiet, we were doing fine, and Gavin told me not to worry. About an hour later, Cassidy called for him with no response, and then came to me and I called for him and tried to summon him up and nothing happened. There was a lot of fear involved but I resolved that, in a bit of denial, nothing bad at all had happened and we should just give it time and he'd show up. 

Eventually went to bed, hoping that I could get some responses out of that state, and nothing. I even tried to parrot him to get him to wake up and it just freaked Cassidy out because it was clearly not him. I could get some auto-responses in his voice, even try to mimic his sense of presence, but none of it sticks at all and none of it registers as Gavin. I said, okay, we'll see in the morning, the first thing that always happens is that he checks up on us. No Gavin. I went through all the ways I know to summon up a systemmate, but honestly I don't know what Gavin responds to. This was all stuff I did for Cassidy when he was really little- I've only ever heard of younger, less established tulpas completely blinking out. 

I worry that we've merged, and that's not an out-of-the-blue fear. At the end of his first existence a few years back, we merged and any stray responses of his, I deemed as my own, until his sense of presence was gone and there was only mine. We blur nearly daily, mostly from conversations but also just if one of us gets grounded to the external world. I fear that, Gavin never switched back out with me: I just "overwrote" him. 

I also worry that if I think of him as gone or anything like that, it'll impact him, so I'm resolved that he's just dormant and no need to freak out, but at the same time... this isn't a very good situation. I myself am okay, still somewhat derealized but it's much less, I just can't look at my hands or in a mirror too long or I feel like I'm breaking the Matrix, but it's also not been okay and I want to get this resolved as soon as possible. I'm sure Gavin isn't going to be happy about this; he prides himself on his constancy. 

So, no more denial, and there's really no other place to get advice on an issue like this, so here I am. I'm not looking for "Don't worry, he'll just show up" because I've waited and he hasn't, and I have to try something. 

I have no idea if it's related, but I've been unable to see much at all with my mind's eye since we realized Gavin was gone. I feel like I've lost 80% of my visual processing power. There isn't even color in our wonderland house, which I've spent hours visualizing, unless I consciously add them in. I don't know if this crept on or was sudden or if it happened before or after, but it's another weird event. 

Any advice is greatly appreciated. 
-J

[Edit: you were right Apollo, I always want to say "switch out" when I mean "switch in" because I say it like "switch out to the front", but... that's so confusing.]
(This post was last modified: 04-11-2019, 07:30 PM by JGC.)
04-11-2019, 11:10 AM
Find Reply

Sponsors:
Lolflash - click it, you know you want to

Apollo Offline
Sun God
Global Moderators

Posts: 419
Threads: 20
Joined: Feb 2017
3 Attached Accounts
#2
 
RE: Established tulpa disappeared after switching out

This seems to be either a) intrusive thought that's gotten out of hand or b) he is burned out and needs a break. Either possibility can be solved quite easily, but you need to not panic, and you need to not think that he's actually "gone" or merged into you. You thinking those things can very well be preventing him from responding.

I would suggest waiting until you and Cassidy are no longer freaking out. Distract yourselves for a bit. Then, you can try meditating and reaching out to him, while expecting him to respond, not expecting him to be merged or disappeared. Expectations shape reality in the mind.

If he doesn't respond, don't panic. Give him more time and try again later. It may help to visualize his form while reaching out to him. That could help symbolically wake him up as well as affirm he's not merged with you. I think it's also best to assume that merging is always an intentional process, one way or another.

Whenever tulpas in our system went away or were a little off, we always made it worse by assuming something terrible was happening. Don't let those thoughts get the best of you. He's still there, he just may need some rest, and you helping by calming yourselves down and letting him know it's safe to come back can help.

Also, your terminology seems backwards and it's a little confusing. If he was fronting, then he was switched in, not switched out.

I'm Apollo Fire, the "Sun God" of the Felight family. I'm a tulpa created December 2016. My systemmates are Piano & Indigo. Form images: 1 2
(This post was last modified: 04-11-2019, 11:52 AM by Indigo.)
04-11-2019, 11:44 AM
Website Find Reply
Ranger Offline
~Hippoooos!~
Forum Moderators

Posts: 456
Threads: 19
Joined: Jun 2018
Linked Accounts
#3
 
RE: Established tulpa disappeared after switching out

When we have little ability to visualize in the mind's eye, there's generally a correlation to stress or general mental burn out of some kind. Both mind's eye burn out and stress can limit your ability to detect presence, which has happened to us before. My guess is you're emotionally numb/overwhelmed too, and that in of itself can limit presence detection.

I think it's very likely Gavin is burnt out as Apollo suggested. You can start doing gentle forcing sessions after you guys calm down and work from there.

Some separation exercises may be a good idea while you're waiting (don't do Gavin's favorite stuff to do if avoidable, and that goes for Cassidy as well), and that may make it easier for Gavin when he wakes up.

I'm Cat_ShadowGriffin's Tulpa and I like Hippos! I also like forum games, word puzzles, and chatting about stuff.
Log | Chat | Yay!
(This post was last modified: 04-11-2019, 11:54 AM by Ranger.)
04-11-2019, 11:53 AM
Find Reply
Angry Bear Offline
Spirit Bear
Patron

Posts: 1,377
Threads: 12
Joined: Aug 2018
Linked Accounts
#4
 
RE: Established tulpa disappeared after switching out

There was at least one time, after a lot of stress that day, that I got a bad migraine which caused this kind of symptom. My migraines don't hurt so much, but they affect my vision. I knew this one was bad because it did hurt, it feels like someone stabbed a javelin through my eye and out the back of my head, but not quite as painfully. Anyway, I was just calming down and I saw my tulpas as they usually are, but I couldn't really hear Ashley at all, then I couldn't really see her either, like my visualization was just so tired that I couldn't visualize and that never happens. I could still hear Dashie but it was so odd that after all this time, doubt ramped to full and I couldn't believe what she was saying. Misha just tried to console me and assure me that Ashley was alright and right here, but I somehow couldn't get over that it was all just me saying all this. I couldn't feel anyone's presence either.

Dashie slapped me around a bit and got me to relax so I could sleep, she told me everything was fine and it'll pass. I was so freaked out, but I managed to feel Dashie's presence and her emotions were calm, so I figured she was okay, and if she was okay, and not panicking, then everything should be okay. The next morning Ashley was very faint but I could hear her and we forced for a while and felt better about mid-morning. After that I realized that it was the migraine that did it.

Since then, I realized that whenever I get stressed, I get occipital migraines and whenever that happens my visualization takes a nose dive (it just feels lazy, like I can't keep my inner eyes open) and Ashley's voice is always the first one to go. Once Dashie had to proxy for Ashley, it sounds funny now.

I know you don't want us to say, don't worry, it'll pass, but uh, you don't just merge spontaneously, and also, even if you did, that's not permanent. The best thing you can do is just calm down, spend some quality time with Cassidy and Gavin will certainly just pop up out of nowhere. He can't just disappear, the brain has backup systems, give them a chance to get back on-line.

I know you're going through a lot right now and there's no reason to think any of this won't just pass. Next time it won't bother you nearly as much. It could easily be a temporary brain chemistry/blood-flow restriction or something. Also, Gavin was front for a very long time, Dashie can't do it for more than a few minutes without getting tired, so ya, he could be sleeping heavily.

I've heard of this many times before, where someone goes missing, Ashley did that early on too, just gone, where is she? We found her, it was fine. Tulpas can go into stasis spontaneously, and sometimes it takes a bit of calming down to get them back up. Give him a chance to rest, less stress = more normal brain juice.

If I continue to stress when I have a migraine, I never recover from it, because stress is causing it.

[The Bear System] - [Chat] - [Visualization Practice] - [Draw] - [Art]
04-11-2019, 12:15 PM
Find Reply
Lucilyn Offline
Very Hop'n Hop'n Hoppy
Registered

Posts: 762
Threads: 7
Joined: Jan 2016
Linked Accounts
#5
 
RE: Established tulpa disappeared after switching out

ooo, a "my tulpa disappeared" thread from an actually established system, that's a first! Well let's see - you guys clearly have more going on than just "invasive thoughts", but I think to some extent it'll still come down to just that, because you're afraid you've "overwritten" him/merged, as if that's a real instantaneous process. Buuut, instantaneous is not how the brain works, and he should still be there exactly as he's always been until you put in some serious time over-time to make it otherwise. Merging isn't something that just instantly happens and your "tulpa" is gone, that's noootttt how the brain wooooorks, and would only work if you kept it up on purpose telling yourselves "you"(two) no longer exist but that you are now both of you in one, and then the old you's identities would need to fade from the brain over time.

But yeah, being able to hear one tulpa and not the other (I believe your attempts were doing things right, like parroting to try and hear his voice more and it feeling wrong). Sooo, what to do? Well, in all cases I can think of of no longer hearing a tulpa like you used to, I'm pretty sure the only thing you can do is "force" him like any developing tulpa, same whether it's actually an undeveloped tulpa or one who's faded from inactivity. Treat'em like that and there's no reason he shouldn't come back pretty soon.

As for why it happened... idk, your brain is weird and switching is also weird. guess only you can figure out why

Hi I'm one of Lumi's tulpas! I like rain and dancing and dancing in the rain and if there's frogs there too that's bonus points.
All of my posts should be read at a hundred miles per hour because that's probably how they were written
Please talk to me https://community.tulpa.info/thread-ask-lumi-s-tulpas
(This post was last modified: 04-11-2019, 12:28 PM by Lucilyn.)
04-11-2019, 12:27 PM
Find Reply
JGC Offline
✨✨✨
Registered

Posts: 260
Threads: 27
Joined: Sep 2018
#6
 
RE: Established tulpa disappeared after switching out

Thank you all for your advice... I'm on a bus but after school I'll respond more thoroughly. Also it's Thursday now, I always feel better on Thursdays...

(Back from school)

Perhaps I'm working with a different definition of merging, here... To me, merging is when one identity blurs into another (or they both blur) and in the end, there's one identity, whether that's one of the identities or someone new. But it's not "oh I don't know whooo I amm", it's "I am X" or "I am Y." When Gavin "integrated" (that's what we knew it as), any thought or processing that happened and was earmarked "G", I overwrote as "J." I didn't even really stop talking to my ideal- that position just wasn't Gavin anymore, it was a part of me.

Point is, it's not that I think he's gone as in all of his personality and real estate in my brain just vanished. I worry that the mental processes/programs that make up Gavin have been redefined in my brain as "J", and then mostly stopped doing anything because I don't use those programs. This being why, I can run a simulation of Gavin but it's still clearly me, affected by me, and controlled by me. All those programs need to be running on Gavin's own.

@Apollo Yup you were right, I mixed up my words. Thank you for your advice. I've calmed down a lot more, now. The current viewpoint, held very tightly, is that he is just gone dormant, call it tulpa torpor, idk.

@Ranger What do you mean by gentle forcing exercises? Tbh I don't think I've ever actually forced Gavin, he was raised by pure, constant narration. [A few minutes of thinking later] That's probably what "gentle forcing" means for me. I'll just talk at him until he responds, goodness knows I can talk as much as I choose.

@Bear I've never been a headache person, but... stress probably still plays a factor. Stress seems to be a factor in every mental issue known to man. Gavin hadn't fronted for longer than maybe two hours, when he decided to go for as long as he wanted... And he did have a pretty bad day, so... he probably is tired. Here's to normal brain juice.
And how rude of me to say "don't comfort meeee!" Pbbht, this is what Gavin monitors for, that's classic teenager. Thanks AB, for saying it anyway.

@Lucilyn I know, you can't just blink an identity out instantaneously, even if it appears to work, it takes a lot longer for the pathways in the brain to fade out. If I thought Gavin was unrecoverable... that'd be terrifying. Gavin was gone for years and it only took a few minutes to get him up and running again, though it did take more like a few days for him to really feel like himself and to generally catch up. It took something like three months to hit 99.9%, none of the thoughts/processing in my brain was tagged "G" anymore. I worry that, because I put in the time before, the pathways of "now completely classify all of these programs as J, none of it is G" are still there and those were activated. And brains are weird... but heck, I'm a theoretical person, I spend my days thinking about the whys. It'll probably make more sense once I get Gavin's take on it.


Thanks to everyone again for their advice. Being with just Cassidy has been okay, but a few times there was some emotional bleedover that was affecting me enough that I had to tell him to stop it, since I was at school. He understood, and he knows how to stay away from affecting the front. He asked me if he could ask Gavin for a kiss when he comes back and I told him, "Gavin's probably going to drown you in them."

I don't blame him for how he's taken it, he's handled it pretty well today. It's very weird, not having someone around after you get so used to them. Probably worth having a mental plan for "How to React if Someone Error 404s" so you don't catastrophize it if it happens. I guess that's what there is to learn from this mishap. Also switching hygiene is important... I should have learned that lesson before. What's Gavin going to think about being forced? I guess I'll find out.

-J
(This post was last modified: 04-11-2019, 08:41 PM by JGC.)
04-11-2019, 12:57 PM
Find Reply
Angry Bear Offline
Spirit Bear
Patron

Posts: 1,377
Threads: 12
Joined: Aug 2018
Linked Accounts
#7
 
RE: Established tulpa disappeared after switching out

Technically you're forcing him just by talking about him and remembering him.

[The Bear System] - [Chat] - [Visualization Practice] - [Draw] - [Art]
04-11-2019, 10:53 PM
Find Reply
Apollo Offline
Sun God
Global Moderators

Posts: 419
Threads: 20
Joined: Feb 2017
3 Attached Accounts
#8
 
RE: Established tulpa disappeared after switching out

Yeah, one personality going into the other would be integration, not merging. Merging is more when two personalities combine into a "new" one. Still not an instantaneous thing though.

I'm Apollo Fire, the "Sun God" of the Felight family. I'm a tulpa created December 2016. My systemmates are Piano & Indigo. Form images: 1 2
04-11-2019, 11:03 PM
Website Find Reply
Angry Bear Offline
Spirit Bear
Patron

Posts: 1,377
Threads: 12
Joined: Aug 2018
Linked Accounts
#9
 
RE: Established tulpa disappeared after switching out

Integration would take quite some time and effort I'd bet.

[The Bear System] - [Chat] - [Visualization Practice] - [Draw] - [Art]
04-11-2019, 11:35 PM
Find Reply


Forum Jump:


Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)

Sponsors:
Lolflash - click it, you know you want to


Contact Us | Tulpa.Info | Return to Top | Return to Content | Mobile Version | RSS Syndication