[Misc] regarding tulpas and trauma...
ok, so this is going to be a bit odd to actually write about. please bear with me as i try to translate from my brain to the keyboard. that, and a warning for talk of trauma. 

so i, the host, somehow created a whole series of tulpas when i was younger. 8 that i can see.  and i apparently did a damn good job seeing as they lasted 18 years in and out of stasis, and not able to do much of anything. i mean, i had a trauma history a mile long by the time i apparently made them. and after that it only went downhill from there. 

so now i've since rediscovered them all, and aside from two who are mere shadows at the moment i'm working on bringing them out, dusting them off, and putting things back together. 

but i literally just found out some really bad news about the second tulpa to come off ice. her name is autumn. it turns out when i was pretty damn young, i may have literally pushed her to front when a really bad event happened. it was really really bad. 

now that she's out, it's obvious that she's in pretty bad pain. and it's like a dagger to the heart...
but she can't talk to me  about it and i don't know why. she wants to, but she's something stopping her from letting that out. 

my question is this. is there a way to go in and pull those memories so i can make a copy? i've yet to figure out how to do it, that is, without removing a piece of her in the process. and she absolutely refuses. it's out of the question. i've tried going in and seeing if i can find them, but something always seems to go wrong and i end up with what i started with. nothing...

i want to help her, and she wants to help herself. but we've yet to find a way to do this. if only i could just get a glimpse of what's in her head. 

<autumn: i want mom to be able to help me, but it's like it's just jammed in there or something. and yes, we've tried a few tools a couple of times. i want to talk or something... anything. but i can't seem to do it no matter what i do. and this sort of problem only makes the situation worse>

suggestions or such are welcome.

EDIT: as of a few minutes ago the problem was solved. on page two there is a reply containing what happened.

Lolflash - click it, you know you want to

Not in this community. The healthy multiplicity community has more experience dealing with trauma. No one here has developed techniques related to that. Though some members here may offer guesses to stuff that might work.
Host comments in italics. Tulpa's log. Tulpa's guide.
i see. i've been through a few different multiplicity communities and haven't been able to get a clear answer on this. nor a point in a useful direction.

not that i'm giving up. i can't stand to see her like this. i'll figure it out eventually. i just feel like complete shit knowing i did that to her and that she's been neglected for far too long. but of course i've been dealing with fixing my own problems too. 

even if they are traumatic, she won't let me remove them permanently if at all. 

i know it's possible to remove pieces of her to work with. but the question is, can they be copied? such as if i created or found a way to get an empty shard, could i copy onto that?

we know we could do something if we could get to her memories without further permanent harm to her. and she has no problem sharing, but then she can't really do it anyways it seems. not even just to talk. 

i'm considering teaching her to front if i can and having her see my therapist. she might be able to coax something out of autumn.
Well, here comes some guessing.

I know how my host would do it. She'd crack open the traumatic memories like lancing a boil. Then she'd deal with the fallout. It would probably involve a lot of screaming and crying. She's very direct.

The only thing I've ever heard about that can help this is traditional hypnotic regression (done on Autumn). As you know, this procedure was not developed with thoughtforms in mind.

Or, actually, any of the modern practises they use for coping with trauma. But I have literally never looked at those. Never studied them.

Not many people here know about shards or how to work with them. In theory, that procedure is completely possible. Good luck finding someone who tried it.
i cringed so fucking hard when i got to the part about lancing a boil. 

i could deal with the problem directly, i've not a single problem with that. it's just that i really want to see if there's a safer method without causing more trauma or removing a part of her. because if the memories are from the time i think they are, messy would be the understatement of the epoch. 

i just can't help but see them as no different from me when it comes down to it. they are their own person. 

i can relay, and i might get some possession going, but i don't know how much therapy will help or not.  

and i have the feeling i'm going to be the one to have to do it myself and see if i can do it without fucking them up. plus there's the point of putting them back together afterwards.

i'm trying so hard to do no more harm. i think i'm going to have to start with some research, and move on to more practical trials. with permission of course. if she says no, then i guess it's of to the super long way around.
I don't think learning to deal with trauma with other headmates is exclusive to one, or another community. I figure it would be about applying whatever experiential context a person had with trauma in general, and just realizing it's more self-centered towards building some kind of rapport again.

If you're willing to go to such lengths to know what really happen, and they're constantly shrugging you off, it might not really be the time to be emotionally prepared for it. Don't get me wrong, we all have to face our inner demons with certain events at some point, but at the same time, you have to wonder if the situation itself is going to actually improve whatever dynamic you may have with them?

If anything, I can only see whatever acknowledgment they give to you leading to more resentment and apologetic conversations, but I don't know what's really going to happen. Maybe if you get more experiential context with them, your emotional resilience will be at a higher threshold, and maybe she could bare herself towards whatever event happened back then.
oh, i've a lot of experience dealing with trauma. it's how the shit hit the fan in the first place. trauma none of us could escape and my tiny mind at the time panicked. i've since been putting my life together, and their lives back together too. but with tulpas it's not quite following the same rules as humans do when it comes to trauma. some of the differences are subtle, but they are there. 

to a certain degree, i'm merely considering my options for the moment. i just have some time because of the fact i may not be starting from ground zero, but it requires skills i've yet to figure out. so it's not going to be quick either way. 

i'm currently looking to see what the memories contain. with that information, i could go and determine when and where it happened. i could also find better ways to help her if she still wants to integrate this into her history. and her saying no is simply a base reaction. she knows i don't have all of the techniques down yet for that. but at the same time, she's hurting bad and i know it. and if there's something i can do to help, i would very much like to do that. and yes, i wouldn't do a damn thing without her permission. 

the dynamic might not change , but she'd no longer be dealing with these pains. if she's still pissed off at me and such, i would say it's her prerogative, and i'll deal with that bridge when i come to it. 

and i've already gotten permission to talk to my therapist about her, see if my therapist would be willing to talk to her. amongst other options that might be viable at one point or another. but i know she wants help. it's just this bubble of pain that has to be addressed. <i don't want to be mad at mom. i want to be there for her. like she's here for me. i just... don't know what to do>. i know autumn. 
I have never heard or seen any techniques related to removing traumatic memories. This is tough because memories are very persistent as they really clings to the individual especially it was caused by a specific event. I think pulling it out forcibly in one will only make it bit more situational. 

The only way i see to remove the memory is by therapy, facing it or accepting and moving on from it (which what i did with one of my bad memories involving one of my tulpas.). Maybe, autumn is really afraid to talk it out to you probably she will feel more confident talking it to someone else?


Well, i can't say if I had a traumatic memory but i did a terrible thing to my host back then and the after effects or the aftermath of the event caused my sister, summer and nihi, my host to lead almost drastic decisions. 

Thinking about it, it really frightens me on how harmful i was back then and i am still afraid as of now, fearing that i might one day do it again. But i accepted it and moved on from it, it was hard and not an easy task it needed some support and time.

But i still retained and kept those tragic memories as a reminder eventhough it is easier for me to let them go. Is there something holding you back? Something that frightens you relating of that traumatic memory? I suggest face it, prove to yourself that it is not the same as it used to, that's how we moved on from ours. Smile

Well, goodluck you guys i hope you get out from this dituation. Smile
Hello! I am nihi, i have 3 tulpas
(03-20-2017, 05:48 AM)revsophie Wrote: the dynamic might not change , but she'd no longer be dealing with these pains. if she's still pissed off at me and such, i would say it's her prerogative, and i'll deal with that bridge when i come to it. 

and i've already gotten permission to talk to my therapist about her, see if my therapist would be willing to talk to her. amongst other options that might be viable at one point or another. but i know she wants help. it's just this bubble of pain that has to be addressed. <i don't want to be mad at mom. i want to be there for her. like she's here for me. i just... don't know what to do>. i know autumn. 

I think you should appreciate the fact that you can see yourself being prepared to deal with that angst. Some people become paralyzed of having to silently bear the burden of whatever may come in the future. Another potential outlook on this is, IMO, I think maybe the event(s) actually end up validating her existence to you.
Now, hear me out on this. I could be wrong, and there’s more to her than that. But I could imagine that whatever upbringing they may have had, with this being one of them, actually taking care of the issue could potentially, to her, seem as a threat of validation of her identity to you; the person that took the fall for something that others may not ever know about. Almost like an existential hero of some sort, i.e., someone who tries to embrace their intellect to take action in life without considering if there would be some kind of enticing compensation for it, or not.
Maybe the reason why she says “I don’t know” isn’t so much of her worrying about the actual reaction to the trauma, but rather the future that could occur if that burden was embraced, and you both happened to move forward. I think it’s natural for others to hold onto certain things that validate their self-progression, or they see as a drive towards self-progression. And when this source has a chance of being solved, or even removed, it’s not so much about having less angst than you two had before, but rather the emptiness of her identity that would come after.
You’d think that someone may be happy vs. driving out those emotions temporarily, but her apprehension seems similar to the same existential angst people go through. Those events seem to be a source of instrumentality in their lives, and if that’s taken, or potentially subsided, it’s back to the existential questioning again, e.g., “I don’t know, but how can I/we?”
There’s many ways you can assess this, and I wouldn’t claim I have the intellect to cover all angles. But, I would imagine that whatever you want for the future, I think your confidence in that (preparing to deal with that bridge later on) can be put aside. The bigger concern, IMO, is her finding a difference source of instrumentality in both of your lives together. That trauma was probably a significant source for her to have instrumentality, i.e., a state of serving a purpose, or being useful.

With what Ada was talking about putting things aside isn’t her telling you to be defeatist about it, but rather realizing that actually putting it aside, temporarily, while you build more experiential context with them that collectively becomes a larger instrumentality in life for you two may make that previous catalyst of her validating her identity more manageable to talk and philosophize about later on. In other words, having enough experiential context to handle bits of it that seemed overwhelming when considered to be taken as a whole.
What are your thoughts on this?

i'm not trying to remove them to permanently remove them, so much as getting the chance to look at them so i can tell what happened. i've no memory of the event myself, and she can't talk about the event yet. she's willing to talk about it, but for some reason she's unable to. <autumn: i know what sophie did <edit: as in, i know she pushed me to the front. not what happened afterwards>, i know why she did it, and i do understand. we  were young, some of us were accidents, and it was in a pretty bad place. but still. i would rather move on as i know she's changed and gotten better. i just.... don't  know. >

<i'm sorry you had to deal with that too cherry. it sucks to have these painfull memories, even if i can't access them. and it's stressing sophie out because she knows she created them. but we are out of there now, so there's that going for us at least. the shards were possibly my idea. but they do scare the bejesus out of me. but sophie is going to be talking to her therapist about this, maybe her therapist might have some ideas.>


i don't know if i would say prepared, but i'm certainly going to go and deal with it. i know i did a fucked up thing, it's my responsibility to make it right. 

<autumn: existential hero? i'm not sure i understand. but i've always seen it as getting shoved under the bus. i hate that it happened. but there's no real way to change that it happened. i do however want to keep the memories i have buried away. they are after all a part of who i am, and what i am. i know mom wouldn't ever leave me with a gaping hole. she didn't know until after i told her, and she then went looking for answers so as to deal with this.>

(asuka: i'm pretty sure autumn was put into cryo not long after the event. she came out of cryo in the same state of course. kind of like hibernating your computer. there are some things that changed over time. but i'm not 100 percent sure of this. i've had my fair share of lumps trying to help sophie out.)
<autumn: "i.e., a state of serving a purpose, or being useful" is this part of what you meant by an existential hero? or am i missing something?>

i'm not really worried about the bridge later on, i'm focused on getting her help in the best way possible. and i see what you're saying about instrumentality in life. goals, purpose, etc. and it's something we are working on as well. we never stopped that part of getting her back up and running. 
(asuka: perhaps i could clarify on something. as i'm inside and sophie is outside.  autumn has a bubble around this trauma. one  no one  can get through. not even sophie, and she can reshape our entire worlds at will. though she decided that she wouldn't change us against our will. she's trying to find a way to get to the bubble so we can see what this is. because i've never seen something like it and neither has sophie. sophie, our host, has a massive trauma history. she's got a massive amount of experience in drawing out trauma in others and herself. reopening and cleaning the wounds so to speak.)

i'm doing the research and looking around while they watch on. autumn has been watching the most intently because of this. she does want it done, but between the natural fear response and the pain she's already dealing with. well, she's radiating emotions all over the place. which is totally understandable of course. but if what i'm feeling is this strong, i know what she's feeling is far worse, and i can't stand by idly waiting if there is at least something i can do. she is after all very much like a daughter to me.

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