Stanford Tulpa Study looking for more participants
(if you're chosen they'll pay for travel and lodging!)

[Misc] Tulpamancy Gatekeeping
#11
Yikes, hope this isn't in response to my worries about tulpas. I might worry about what tulpas are to their hosts, but I'd never doubt that they exist- I had a tulpa before I knew what they were, so I never had to "choose to believe." Even if someone is the most inescapably happy, servient, pony-waifu tulpa on this side of 4chan, doesn't mean they aren't a tulpa. Doubting parenting skills doesn't mean doubting children exist.

Have I seen gatekeeping? Mmm, a little, though never directed at me. I actually ended up on a DID reddit while researching media examples of plurality, and someone brought up tulpas in the comments. There was more confusion than anything, but some people went straight to "Lying tumblr otherkin snowflakes want to feel special by pretending they have DID."
DID is... often romanticized a little, which isn't necessarily bad, since it's incredibly stigmatized. Still, the spheal is often "You developed DID to protect yourself against unspeakable harm from your abusers" which is most often true, but trauma doesn't have to be anyone's fault. They do the same thing with dissociation, something I've seriously struggled with at times, but my trauma wasn't because I was abused or anything, and it's weird to be told that.

"Gatekeeping" is also an incredibly charged word. I hope we don't start any gatekeeper witchhunts- that would suck. Potential gatekeepers should be dealt with on the DL, not through call-outs, if confrontation becomes necessary at any point. However, this forum, as has been pointed out, is a very accepting place.

-J
Reply

Sponsors:
Lolflash - click it, you know you want to

#12
Not all systems fit the 'norms' all the time. I've found that there is a lot of variation system to system. I have myself felt the sting of other's doubt on this very forum. Which is why i don't talk about some experiences we still have and certain aspects of my system remain hidden to this day. (I won't give any examples, because a few petty examples are far outweighed by the warmth and tolerance that exists here.)

I have theorized that certain claims seem to be marginalized or doubted as a means to protect strongly held beliefs or norms, and i don't think that can be avoided 100%, but it can be kept on the DL. I won't argue. I still contend that my system is only about 90% in agreement with generally accepted norms and definitions here on tulpa.info, so i refrain from giving advice publicly that fall in that last 10% even if they're scientifically based and sound.

I have also noticed, in the short time i've been here, that the culture is headed in a more open and accepting direction. I actually haven't run across anyone gatekeeping on Discord, though it may be in part due to my open attitude toward other's beliefs, because i keep in mind that not every system can be the same, or can even be forced to comply with the norms.

One last thing. Though beliefs evolve with time, that does not invalidate previous beliefs for others. The goal here is more of a guideline, any way you want to get there is entirely within your pervue. Of course it's nice to hear when others' experiences agree with yours, i haven't found two systems that are exactly alike.
Reply
#13
You're well spoken, Apollo. I like reading your material. I can't recall any specifics at the moment, but I think you and I have held contrary opinions on subjects, and our banter was always respectful. I am trying to think of any thing that I've read that had an apparent, or even speculative aura of attempting to shut you down... Not being able to recall one doesn't mean your point isn't valid. When I first started in the community, I encountered what I perceived to be resistance or pushback, which gatekeeping seems like the appropriate term, and in some instance may actually be necessary for preservation of the community, such as consistency in terminology, but that doesn't appear to be what you're describing in this post/thread.

What I interpret in your post is that you have a concern that your perspective or thoughts, or maybe everyone not just you, have been too readily dismissed. I am trying to think of a way to respond to that, because it's important, as I personally, not even as a mod, value yours and everyones participation. And so, as a mod, I am trying to grasp at a response and solution set, and even in that, I don't think it's my place but that's committee's function, if not the site owner's function... Gatekeeping, by definition, would be a function of official people blocking... and so though peer to peer can block each other, and argue and disagree, that might not be gatekeeping per say. One of the nice things about this community is most people are really sensitive about other people's feelings, but even the best of us can completely misread a thing and respond very directly in inept ways, without necessarily meaning to infringe upon another's perspective. I would hope that is more likely the case, just people working their thoughts out as best they can, as opposed to malicious intent of ridicule. I am quite confident that someone that was just flat out of line disparaging would have been called out on such a thing. And maybe that happens privately via emails, so that the behavior can be addressed appropriately, not in a public venue... I don't know that, but I personally would go to someone privately and try figure out what's going on, because that's just right... People have good days and bad days and we make more social errors than non social errors, because we're complicated, and I think people deserve opportunities to grow and better interact, and every interaction pattern requires a different way of engaging. If any person feels particularly threatened by another member, I am absolutely certain any number of MODS, Vos and Picard especially... would be happy to exchange a private email/query and look into it. I would hope that, even if I may have publically disagreed with you, you could come to me and we talk something through... Because here's the next part of this... If gatekeeping is a thing, and it becomes obvious that people can't even hold a discourse without someone policing interaction patterns, so that there is no apparent discord, well, that too can become a real 'thing' and that drives people away, too. In all things we strive for balance, not necessarily fairness.

It is possible I read too few items and have missed some more objectionable threads and posts, or maybe even read the one you have alluded to, and failed to see what you have, but on the whole, I have found this community to be one of the most outstanding communities I have ever interacted with, and it is one of the reason I continue to return. Just you being able to write what you have, and received the responses you have, is a testament to the community and how well you are received, because they care about and want your continued participation. I certainly do. If you feel safe to do so, the next time you experience this kind of pushback, just inquire directly in the thread, maybe allowing the 'transgressor' an opportunity to communicate something in more thoughtful manner. If I messed up publically, I would want the opportunity to mend it publically.
Reply
#14
Many people in plurality communities have a tendency to believe that all systems must operate like their own, and that differing experiences mean that they do not have a "real" system. Some have very specific definitions of what "tulpa" or "plurality" means and those who stray outside of those tightly confined definitions are seen as someone who should not be considered a part of the community. Luckily I haven't seen this too often around here, but it does happen.

It's especially bad in the DID community. Many, if not the majority, of people in those communities hold the belief that having more than one person in your head is possible only through traumegenic means. They believe that the mechanism that creates plurality can only be kicked into gear via trauma, and that there is no other possible method. This is why they discount tulpa and endogenic systems as being fake.
Reply
#15
yeah I'll just say again, Tulpamancy doesn't innately exist as a "thing" and everyone pretty much gets their own version of it, just like they have their own version of what reality is, because they're an individual. We can share our experiences even though they differ slightly (imagine if we didn't! wouldn't be here!), but the important thing is what YOU experience, you and your tulpas. This is realllyyy important to understand and that's why our system says it so often. There's no real/fake detector for experiences to ever say you're totally wrong about something that exists only in your mind, and so the only thing that matters is what seems real to you. also it's important to know you can change those experiences just like you can change your interpretation of reality, the only thing stopping you is your belief that you're really seeing true "reality" (you're not, by definition of "subjective"). The only thing you might choose to watch for is logical explanations. Like.. some people really just kinda disregard those, mostly people with meta beliefs, but if you can't, then you should try and make sure your beliefs are logical so you don't doubt yourself.

But still remember! It's all in YOUR head, so how YOU experience it is what is "real"! Other people have other experiences, but the uber complicated processes behind those individualized experiences aren't really comprehendible to humans yet, and when they are it'll be machines doing it, not us
Hi I'm one of Lumi's tulpas! I like rain and dancing and dancing in the rain and if there's frogs there too that's bonus points.
All of my posts should be read at a hundred miles per hour because that's probably how they were written
Please talk to me https://community.tulpa.info/thread-ask-lumi-s-tulpas
Reply
#16
A bit rich when you constantly insist that any experience that doesn't match your own must be fake or imaginary or "confabulated".
Reply
#17
Memory confabulation is a real thing, and it's a bit different from telling someone that they're not real tulpas.
I'm Indigo Blue, the "Sky Dragon" of the Felight family. I'm a tulpa born October 2017. My systemmates are Radio, Apollo, & Piano. Form images: 1 2
Reply
#18
(12-12-2018, 03:13 AM)Atatakakatta Wrote: A bit rich when you constantly insist that any experience that doesn't match your own must be fake or imaginary or "confabulated".

I feel like I'm missing context here...
Christmas kitty. I'm still not a hippo, I promise.
I sometimes speak in pink and Ranger sometimes speaks in blue (if it's unmarked and colored assume it's Ranger). He loves to chat.

My other Tulpas have their own account now.
Reply
#19
depends on if that "you" was at the proposed "gatekeepers" or Apollo, which I assume it wasn't
Hi I'm one of Lumi's tulpas! I like rain and dancing and dancing in the rain and if there's frogs there too that's bonus points.
All of my posts should be read at a hundred miles per hour because that's probably how they were written
Please talk to me https://community.tulpa.info/thread-ask-lumi-s-tulpas
Reply
#20
(12-11-2018, 04:31 PM)Angry Bear Wrote: Not all systems fit the 'norms' all the time. I've found that there is a lot of variation system to system. I have myself felt the sting of other's doubt on this very forum. Which is why i don't talk about some experiences we still have and certain aspects of my system remain hidden to this day. (I won't give any examples, because a few petty examples are far outweighed by the warmth and tolerance that exists here.)

I have theorized that certain claims seem to be marginalized or doubted as a means to protect strongly held beliefs or norms, and i don't think that can be avoided 100%, but it can be kept on the DL. I won't argue. I still contend that my system is only about 90% in agreement with generally accepted norms and definitions here on tulpa.info, so i refrain from giving advice publicly that fall in that last 10% even if they're scientifically based and sound.  



  Spot on. I would estimate we are about 75-80% and simply shy away from talking about the rest.


Worth mentioning that from the perspective of a more militant empowered multiplicity type quite a few in this very thread are gate keeping on the DID crowd, lol. Also worth mentioning that there is a big difference between the willfully judgmental/bigoted and the simply uninformed. I'v been active in multiple communities since the start of the interwebs and these forums are extremely enlightened. The worst I'v encountered have sadly been the last gen traumegenic DID communities.
Reply


Forum Jump:


Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)

Sponsors:
Lolflash - click it, you know you want to