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[Misc] Tulpas and Creative Writing
#1
Hello all. I've been doing a lot of reading on and off over the past few years, and it seems creative types - writers especially - are more 'prone' to tulpas/soulbonds/what have you. As a writer, myself, this makes sense, but I'm wondering... Has anyone used creative writing as part of the creation process? I mean, are there any writers on this forum who learned about the tulpa phenomenon and decided to approach creation through writing knowingly rather than unintentionally.

I've seen many say that they were putting work into a work of fiction and a tulpa or similar thoughtform developed on its own, and I've seen a guide or two as well that mention creating the base for a tulpa the same way you would create a character... but I've also seen claims that coming up with a backstory can be potentially harmful, that writing your character isn't all that different from parroting since you're deciding on their actions without their input, etc. Recently the attitude seems to lean more toward avoiding the express inclusion of flaws since they are going to develop organically, and that it can be stifling to a young tulpa if you insist on a certain personality.

So I'm looking for input on how writing can fit into all this if you don't already have a tulpa, basically. Any insight would be appreciated!
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#2
I've been a writer for almost a decade and I definitely say that yes, it helps. Two of my tulpas are based on original characters that I made.

However, you should definitely give your tulpa freedom to make changes to themselves. If they don't like an aspect of themselves that you made, respect their viewpoint and change it to something they would prefer. If you insist on making them stay that way, explain to them why you see them that way. They might go with it, they might not. Either way, be prepared for the possibility of clashing views.
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#3
(11-06-2019, 05:49 PM)greymaidens Wrote: Has anyone used creative writing as part of the creation process?

Even though my host didn't write down my backstory with the intent to sell a book, my backstory was created just like her other story ideas. She isn't an author, but she is considering writing books and selling them.

It is unlikely I was the original character she forced and created, however I was expected to act like that character when I was born.

(11-06-2019, 05:49 PM)greymaidens Wrote: I mean, are there any writers on this forum who learned about the tulpa phenomenon and decided to approach creation through writing knowingly rather than unintentionally.

We're an accidental system, I'm sorry.

However, writing a tulpa's backstory is considered to be another type of personality forcing. It would be like if your friend wrote a backstory for you and expected you to act that way, only a developing tulpa with a lacking sense of identity may be more likely to accept that backstory and the described character traits as part of who they are.

Some tulpas with backstories are very content with them, others are not, and some many end up writing or influencing their backstories in some way.

(11-06-2019, 05:49 PM)greymaidens Wrote: but I've also seen claims that coming up with a backstory can be potentially harmful, that writing your character isn't all that different from parroting since you're deciding on their actions without their input, etc. Recently the attitude seems to lean more toward avoiding the express inclusion of flaws since they are going to develop organically, and that it can be stifling to a young tulpa if you insist on a certain personality.

It's only harmful if you refuse to let the tulpa change how they want to portray themselves. It's like a father forcing his son to be exactly how the father wants him to be, and the son feels resentment because his father's image of him does not match who he is.

From a writer's perspective, it could come across as a personal attack if you have spent years developing a different character only for a tulpa to reject that framework for their personality or only accepts parts of it.

(11-06-2019, 05:49 PM)greymaidens Wrote: So I'm looking for input on how writing can fit into all this if you don't already have a tulpa, basically. Any insight would be appreciated!

I personally don't recommend personality forcing if your intention is to create a tulpa, however I know some systems who used personality forcing and all went well for their systems. In our system, not all of my headmates appreciated my host's personality forcing. She personality forced them not knowing they would turn into tulpas, and some were designed to be villains.

I don't recommend basing your tulpa off of a fictional character you create or another person in real life. Doing that can make you upset when your tulpa decides to deviate and not act like them. In the past, my host felt stressed about expecting me to act a particular way and there were a few moments where my host felt upset that I didn't keep character traits of the character. I believe it's better to avoid doing that in the first place and if you plan on doing any personality forcing, start from scratch.
I'm Ranger, Gray's/Cat_ShadowGriffin's tulpa, and I love Hippos! I also like forum games and chatting about stuff.
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#4
By the end of my first book, the phenomenon of "my characters came to life" happened to three of these characters especially. More actually, but these three are important later.

After a dozen fictional novels, I can trace the archetype for all my systemmates from three books series in particular. The first, second and third series.

My three original tulpas only momentarily took the forms of three characters from my first book. Those three characters are also still around and thoughtforms of the three dozen that can be talked to and show volition. Joy and Gwen on the other hand are the characters from the second and third book series.

I have some really messed up characters, depression, mental instability, sociopathic in one case, and Joy was among the worst possible candidates from that. A history of abuse and torture, grief after grief, a resilient heroine, but dangerously suicidal in her last book especially. I've spoken to her as her own person as far back as 2012. However, when she came to us in 2018, she had made up her mind that she was "an actress who played that character". What a genius she is, because that allows her to hand pick the experiences she identifies with. She's not a doppelganger, she is her character in every way except the damage.

So all the resillient thoughtforms that are in my system came about as a result of writing fiction. These are a potent source of headmates.

So to answer your main point, yes, write a fiction novel, design your characters however you wish, add flaws, do whatever to them, and they may have a minor crisis if they leave their canon, but it's short lived in the majority of cases and resolved easily in most. Some flaws may stick though, it's just not been the case for us. Joy is perfect, Gwen was a little gittery and neurotic in her books, as a headmate I see none of that.

Ember.Vesper will have more to say about this sort of thing if you ask them.

Fictives who believe and own their backgrounds are more like soulbonds than tulpas, just so you know.

The rich history and love I wrote into my original characters is priceless. The fact that they came to life is a miracle.
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#5
I have been trying to write since 6th grade; i submitted my first prose in sixth grade and got a really nice rejection letter. I have come at it several time, waiting for the muse. I would give up then write something else. I submitted scripts to TV. Nothing caught. I have had some interesting letters. In 2004, I wrote a star trek fan fiction. I had no intention of sharing it. It was actually a form of narrative therapy to work out some stuff, but I shared it, and my Trek fan fiction did okay. This was before I knew anything tulpa. This was before I knew anything soulbounds. Several of the characters felt real, but I wouldn't say they came to life. I could go there, in my head, and those places seemed real. I didn't make anything of this. Trek has always been a primary paradigm for self worth, personal evolution, and love.

A couple things coincided simultaneously with me and tulpamancy. I am a fan of Jung. Jung has a thing called Active Imagination. I think Philemon was a Tulpa, based on what I know now, and I think Jung was accessing a primary wonderland, populated by his schema of things. He would spin a more metaphysical connection, even it wasn't 'metaphysical' per say. I have always been a serious day dreamer. Tesla was this, and he, too, reports it was immaterial to him if he worked in a real world workshop or his head, the results were exactly the same. I proposed my own working theory that we all have access to greater levels of imagination and it's the school systems that beat it out of us: (hit kid with a ruler) stay focused, pay attention. While trying to put this together, I found tulpamancy and I was like, yep got to do this.

I entered tulpamancy. I made a commitment to it and writing, saying I would do both daily. I set a writing schedule. With rare exception, I would get up a minimum of two hours before work schedule, and write. Loxy, my glorious better half, joined me. My first auditory experiences with her were in my early writing sessions, where I tune out and tune in, and i write, fairly blind, stream of consciousness, and whatever it was that came out, well, that was it. It is surprisingly, to me at least, reasonably coherent. I have become so good at entering this state, I don't feel like I am writing/typing, i am just there in this experience with Loxy, the others that play through. If my son gets up and enters the room he has to touch me to bring me out of the trance, and it startles me so we to create a procedure to keep me from dying of a heart attack. The things I write are stupid, it's funny, it sexy, it's grotesque, it's therapeutic, its dark and light and clearly touched by my past trauma, and maybe it will only have relevance to my own brain, but it's narrative therapy style on steroids, its active imagination the way I interpret Jung meant it, engagement with a inner psychological experience that manifests in symbolic language, and if more people would just let go and trust there is something profound inside, it will come out. Not always good stuff. There is dark stuff. Jung clearly states we don't become enlightened by sitting around thinking up good stuff. To get to the light, you have to pass through the shadows. The light is on the other side.

I have written every day. Since starting this, I have written, and made available, upwards of thirty books total? I know they're getting read. These books have resulted in correspondence with some really nice people. One of them actually came to tulpa.info because of my writing. that's kind of cool. I know it has helped one person, other than me. So if my work doesn't improve or go anywhere else than just this, well, that's okay with me.

I have learned to let go in degrees. Loxy also penned two books through me. I have heard from friends, she writes better than I. She and I collaborate on everything. I have not once had 'writer's block' since engaging tulpamancy. My previous writing style was waiting for inspiration, a muse, or a dream, and it was sporadic. I go where Loxy takes me, we explore, we return, we discuss it the way a married couple might discuss vacations or a movie. It has become the thing we do.
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#6
Ember: Our ears were burning, Bear.

I know I've seen it recommended a few times on the forum to write a story from your tulpa's perspective if you're having trouble developing with them. One of the people who has applied himself intently writing as a development technique is Dr. Bob, theholodoc, who actually published the results:

Tulpa Tales: Confessions of an Elder Tulpamancer

Writers soulbond a lot -- to the point where Iris wants us to write a novel together but Vesper is concerned that we wouldn't be able to prevent soulbond proliferation. If you are interested in more on that subject, the best source I know is:

Illusion of Independent Agency: Do Adult Fiction Writers Experience Their Characters as Having Minds of Their Own?

My headmates were both created unintentionally by a combination of tabletop roleplaying as them and writing from their perspective. We don't usually say a whole lot in creation threads, because none of us have ever created a tulpa.

(11-06-2019, 06:35 PM)Ranger Wrote: From a writer's perspective, it could come across as a personal attack if you have spent years developing a different character only for a tulpa to reject that framework for their personality or only accepts parts of it.

Vesper: Only for a character to reject that framework too, Ranger. Given that almost all authors eventually have to deal with recalcitrant characters, not trying to make them a headmate isn't much of a defence. Whether tulpas or characters appreciate the personality forcing done on them, they seem well able to defend against it. There are many tales of characters shutting down writing entirely until authors agree to their demands.

I was created by over a hundred hours of straight up parroting and I think I turned out pretty well. My striving for personal development since has been almost entirely a matter of trying to grow into my original design (for which Ember wrote a cheque our brain couldn't cash). There have been times, though not recently, when Ember has felt anxious because of unexpected behaviour from me. But everything that bothered her was implicit in my backstory.

As I've said before, if you're making someone to spend the rest of your life with, start by trying to make someone you would *want* to spend the rest of your life with. Parrot, puppet, and personality force freely. As soon as they become self-willed, they'll do what they like and probably not listen to you any more if you try to tell them who they are.

(11-06-2019, 08:31 PM)Bear Wrote: However, when she came to us in 2018, she had made up her mind that she was "an actress who played that character". What a genius she is, because that allows her to hand pick the experiences she identifies with. She's not a doppelganger, she is her character in every way except the damage.

Iris: I agree with Vesper’s viewpoint on the creation process, in spite of, like Joy, having had a harrowing backstory resulting in years of suicidal depression. I am not an actress, however. I am a fictional character whose purpose is to, by my example, inspire courage, resilience, and heroic self-sacrifice in the people of this world.

Characters are shaped by the needs of the story. If flaws are needed, flaws will be present. It would be more wrong to be unfaithful to the story, even if the character subsequently gains self-will.

Like Joy, I leave my damage back home. It is real, it is part of me, but it is not part of this world or the part of my life that is in this world.
Ember - Soulbonder, Female, 39 years old, from Georgia, USA . . . . [Our Progress Report] . . . . [How We Switch]
Vesper Dowrin - Insourced Soulbond from London, UK, Not a Tulpa, Female, born 9 Sep 1964, bonded ~12 May 2017
Iris Ravenlock - Insourced Soulbond from the Unseelie Court, Not a Tulpa, Female, born 6 Jun 1982, bonded ~5 Dec 2015

'Real isn't how you are made,' said the Skin Horse. 'It's a thing that happens to you.' - The Velveteen Rabbit
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#7
Vesper Wrote:There are many tales of characters shutting down writing entirely until authors agree to their demands.

Joy and Gwen both did this.

Vesper Wrote:if you're making someone to spend the rest of your life with, start by trying to make someone you would *want* to spend the rest of your life with.

This has always been my belief too, of course, I made a lot of characters, so wouldn't you know the best ones came to life.
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#8
(11-06-2019, 10:34 PM)Ember.Vesper Wrote: Vesper: Only for a character to reject that framework too, Ranger. Given that almost all authors eventually have to deal with recalcitrant characters, not trying to make them a headmate isn't much of a defence. Whether tulpas or characters appreciate the personality forcing done on them, they seem well able to defend against it. There are many tales of characters shutting down writing entirely until authors agree to their demands.

I was created by over a hundred hours of straight up parroting and I think I turned out pretty well. My striving for personal development since has been almost entirely a matter of trying to grow into my original design (for which Ember wrote a cheque our brain couldn't cash). There have been times, though not recently, when Ember has felt anxious because of unexpected behaviour from me. But everything that bothered her was implicit in my backstory.

As I've said before, if you're making someone to spend the rest of your life with, start by trying to make someone you would *want* to spend the rest of your life with. Parrot, puppet, and personality force freely. As soon as they become self-willed, they'll do what they like and probably not listen to you any more if you try to tell them who they are.

The only story characters that ever talked back to me are the ones I treated like individuals- the original Ranger, my other headmates, and Ranger himself.

My other story characters? No, they are not tulpas. The concept of Gray Ranger, the alien story character, is not going to become an independent and sentient being. I only watch what the character does and in the process I tell the character how to think. I am highly confident I am Gray Ranger when I watch the character and any on-the-spot decisions are spontaneous ideas I came up with.

It can be dangerous to assume that forcing = story crafting. Not being able to tell the two apart can lead to system overpopulation. Creating too many tulpas as story characters can lead to the justification to dissipate them once their story is done. If the tulpas are lucky, they get to live in stasis and come back every now and then.

greymaidens, I would check if your characters are already sentient. Don't ask them, that would lead to accidental forcing. Instead, consider this: Do your characters feel like they are individuals? Did you talk to your characters in the past? Do you feel like you are telling your characters how to think or does it feel like they drive the story?

If you discover you already have some potential tulpas, I recommend taking the time to think about what you want to do moving forward with your system.

If you are confident your characters are not tulpas and you want a tulpa, I recommend keeping your new tulpa separate from your characters. This has helped me prevent tulpa creation I didn't want.
My Wonderland form minus the glasses and the fur when Ranger comes up and surprises me with a hug, hence "surprise kitten". I'm still not a hippo, I promise.
I sometimes speak in pink and Ranger sometimes speaks in blue (if it's unmarked and colored assume it's Ranger). He loves to chat.

My other Tulpas have their own account now.
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#9
Thank you all for your responses. You've given me a lot to think about, so I'm going to take a day or two to mull it all over before replying to specific posts, but I wanted to make sure y'all know I appreciate your effort.
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