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No interaction, no visualization for a year: What I found coming back.
Cawffle Offline
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#1
 
No interaction, no visualization for a year: What I found coming back.

About a year ago, I created a tulpa. I formed it, gave it personality and a rough visual form. It was sentient, though it was quiet compared to the rest of my mind. In other words, I created the 'core', and then gave up. It had not fully distinguished or separated from the rest of my consciousness.
I considered it unfinished at the time and assumed it would disintegrate.
However, during recent attempts to astral project, not only did I find my wonderland to be intact, but my tulpa was still there and had developed it's own traits outside my conscious influence. It had grown, changed and solidified it's form.
All while I had been ignoring it (unaware of it, really), it had apparently been influencing my general life in some ways. Considering that it is a partition of the mind, this makes sense.
I plan to attempt to contact it to confirm this information sometime tomorrow. If you have any questions, let me know.


Edit- I'm reading through a survey my tulpa 'did' back then, and found something interesting. ctrl-f down to question 75.
http://pastebin.com/CntWrEWv
(This post was last modified: 01-06-2014, 06:36 AM by Cawffle.)
01-06-2014, 06:20 AM
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Mel Syreth Offline
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#2
 
RE: No interaction, no visualization for a year: What I found coming back.

"Ultimately I have control over my form."

You know... this is a bit of unnerving for me. Maybe it's because the way of speech, though.
01-06-2014, 06:47 AM
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Kraph Offline
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#3
 
RE: No interaction, no visualization for a year: What I found coming back.

Well, she sounds like an interesting person.
You did that survey before giving up ? Or she did it by herself in ways I don't quite get ?
01-06-2014, 04:35 PM
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Cawffle Offline
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#4
 
RE: No interaction, no visualization for a year: What I found coming back.

The survey was done before I quit.

(01-06-2014, 06:47 AM)Mel Syreth Wrote: "Ultimately I have control over my form."

You know... this is a bit of unnerving for me. Maybe it's because the way of speech, though.

Yeah, a bit scary, but when you put it in perspective it's pretty inconsequential and could even be beneficial in ways. They're still a part of our consciousness, so leaving a tulpa open ended (instead of 'forcing' it into any particular thing) allows them to assume a form that can provide a measure of self-reflection, I think.
(This post was last modified: 01-06-2014, 07:30 PM by Cawffle.)
01-06-2014, 07:28 PM
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LukeDude759 Offline
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#5
 
RE: No interaction, no visualization for a year: What I found coming back.

"108. How many hours did it take you and your creator to complete the various recognized tulpa creation steps?

30 seconds."

Don't even know what to say about this...

"Don't listen to friends when the friend inside you says 'Do this.'" -Gandhi

Tulpa Name: Ellie
Created: 11/13/13
01-07-2014, 01:42 AM
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Cawffle Offline
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#6
 
RE: No interaction, no visualization for a year: What I found coming back.

Setting the intention, creating a visual partition and imbuing it with love is really a hit or miss type of thing. If you can do that, then bam! You've made a tulpa. Otherwise you have to try over and over. Forcing traits and visual form seems in retrospect largely unnecessary and is probably more of an impediment than anything.

At least that's how I see it based on my experience. I'm thinking of creating a 2nd, and allowing it to simply grow on it's own after initial creation.
01-07-2014, 01:57 AM
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#7
 
RE: No interaction, no visualization for a year: What I found coming back.

(01-07-2014, 01:57 AM)Cawffle Wrote: Forcing traits and visual form seems in retrospect largely unnecessary and is probably more of an impediment than anything.

...So in other words

(01-07-2014, 01:57 AM)Cawffle Wrote: Nearly every step towards creating a tulpa seems in retrospect largely unnecessary and is probably more of an impediment in creating a tulpa than anything.

Please. Don't.

I'm tired of seeing tulpas/hosts with "It was me/my tulpa all along" stories. To me, it seems like a very convenient way to be lazy. "I barely made my tulpa, then forgot about it, and without doing anything, it developed on it's own." Basically, you don't want to force, but you do want a tulpa. That is fine, you are entitled to that, but don't say that things such as forcing traits and picking a form are unnecessary just because you didn't want to do so. If your tulpa developed like that, that is fine for you (though I honestly doubt it's a "hit and miss" type of thing, you do not make a tulpa in 30 seconds, period.) but don't assume that your subjective experience applies universally.
01-07-2014, 11:47 AM
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Linkzelda Offline
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#8
 
RE: No interaction, no visualization for a year: What I found coming back.

@Cawffle:

Based on the circumstances, I can conjecture several reasons why you may garner that predisposition that actually working towards ontologically developing the tulpa is a “hit and miss”:

When you made the claim that you astral projected, or in a dreamer’s perspective, had a vivid WILD (Wake Initiated Lucid Dream), maybe the existence of what you felt was your tulpa could be for several reasons.
  • Seeing how you would be in a state where you can tap into the imaginative potential and be aware about it within your mind, or in your case some kind of mental plane where thoughts become reality, that your mind was able to manifest a combination of a higher-self and ideal version of what you wanted your tulpa to be if you continued pushing through
  • But seeing how you’ve gotten a glimpse of a virtual experiential reality of a “what if” with your tulpa, it raises the question on whether or not your claim that you don’t have to do much is really anything valid.
  • And even if your mind somehow enabled a dues ex machine with past problems you had with continuing the development of your tulpa, I don’t think you’re really absolved from finding cognitive means to shift their existence from whatever altered state of consciousness you were in into waking life
  • In fact, since your mind was able to manifest the existence easily, maybe you should take that as a supplementary aid towards developing your tulpa in waking life. If you can easily interact or find them during that other state of being, then it should be easier for you to sublimate those experiences into waking state.
  • Unless you’re somehow capable of fathoming whatever processes your mind utilized to make that experience for you to make you think “oh my god, they’ve been developing by themselves all along,” I highly doubt you would be absolved from having some effort into this. Obviously, since your mind created some ontological makeup of your tulpa, all you would have to do is apply symbolism, practice, and shifting around through several modes of cognition, it’s easier…but that doesn’t mean you don’t have to do anything. That would just refute your claim that doing the traditional means of development is useless, and you would technically be shooting for the moon trying to wait for your mind to project the thought-form in that other state into the waking state

As for others that seemed to be conflicted with how OP used retrospect to conclude that the steps towards making a tulpa is largely unnecessary, I have several questions for you Cawffle:
  • If you didn’t expose yourself to the subjective concepts of creating a tulpa, do you still feel your mind would’ve used implicit knowledge without having pre-existing memories of you accumulating experiential learning with those concepts?
  • Have you ever wondered that because of how you probably did a comparative analysis on those concepts and methods, that your mind was able to connect things together based on that?

Because it seems to me that you’re forgetting how your experiential cases most likely contributed to that experience you had recently where you found what you would deem as a full-fledged tulpa. Your claim is like a lucid dreamer that remembers thousands of his lucid dreams, and states that the experiential totality is useless because he’s a natural lucid dreamer.

People forget that it’s the experiential totality that most likely contributed to that major breakthrough, especially in relation to tulpas. It just shows that lucid dreaming and whatever altered states of consciousness can be useful supplementary aids that can override the traditional waking state creation if done pragmatically.

So I don’t think people should state OP shouldn’t have the right to presume there could be some universal concepts (i.e. universal consciousness). He wasn’t making a deductive and scientific claim that it was useless to use traditional means, he just got lucky and interpreted differently.




Scylla Wrote:I'm tired of seeing tulpas/hosts with "It was me/my tulpa all along" stories. To me, it seems like a very convenient way to be lazy.

To be honest, as much as that would make sense if I didn't try several approaches to refute that, I've seen several anecdotal cases where people who thought the idea would be BS and label it as euphemistic laziness...I would argue that maybe it was their tulpa all along.

Considering how a common conflict people have in validating their tulpa's existence (without having to be conflicted with the self-fulfilling prophecy of treating them as sentient and believing they would go through the mannerisms of a sentient entity as well), some people are just fortunate to have their minds fill in the blanks on things they couldn't do consciously all by themselves.

And I don't think that because this forum has lackluster explanations to attempt to conceptualize those grander schemes we're not proficient in knowing of as yet as a reason to shun down OP.

If anything, how people respond and hate those "it was me/my tulpa all along stores" are probably insecure because unlike the person (like OP) who had a healthy dosage of dues ex machina, maybe you're bothered that your attempts into developing a tulpa was futile. That's what happens when people start getting insecure on the presumed progress of people who probably made faster progress just by being suggestive and believing aspects of their mind filled in the blanks.

No one can be too sure, but in OP's case, if he still goes through the mannerisms of the traditional means in developing a tulpa, the end result would be the same, except he was fortunate to have the dues ex machina our mind does to cut some corners for him based on experiential cases he took for granted.


I had a similar case with Eva and Ada, though I didn't go around thinking I didn't have to do anything. I just applied concepts learned from the lucid dreaming forcing I did before I knew about tulpas for them and got lucky as well. Though compared to OP, I didn't absolve the experiential totality I had to go through beforehand as a way to make the breakthroughs.


(This post was last modified: 01-07-2014, 08:31 PM by Linkzelda.)
01-07-2014, 08:28 PM
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Anonymous
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#9
 
RE: No interaction, no visualization for a year: What I found coming back.

Linkzelda Wrote:maybe you're bothered that your attempts into developing a tulpa was futile.
I am a tulpa.

Also, I wouldn't buy this story even if it came with a 200% discount. To me, this looks just like a way of saying "Hey, I started a tulpa, was too lazy to deal with it, but I want a tulpa and, oh, here he is!"

You need to put effort into your tulpa. Period.
01-08-2014, 12:38 AM
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Linkzelda Offline
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RE: No interaction, no visualization for a year: What I found coming back.

Quote:You need to put effort into your tulpa. Period.

This has nothing to do with effort, and I even stated that effort would be a standard either way if the host wants contribute as sustenance for the tulpa’s existence, pre-sentience or after. But I can understand that you'll stand by your disposition, though I feel it's that type of mindset that may encourage intolerance to prevent a moral crisis on a thought-form's existence.


Quote:Also, I wouldn't buy this story even if it came with a 200% discount. To me, this looks just like a way of saying "Hey, I started a tulpa, was too lazy to deal with it, but I want a tulpa and, oh, here he is!"

Well yeah, that can be the case, but with what you stated with the host needing to put effort into their tulpas is clearly obvious. Though this is forgetting how the host would have a mind that processes information faster than they can ever do consciously. And like I stated in the previous posts, we have yet to find ways to explain those psychological phenomenon that would be considered dues ex machina that resolve the unresolvable concepts (when approached through conscious awareness alone) of making the breakthroughs (i.e. a tulpa being vocal through mind-voice and even auditory imposition).

If there ever ends up being a communal or individual revelation to explain those grander schemes from a psychological standpoint, it may solve the paradox that’s probably flowing through your very existence, which is:

It allows you as a tulpa to refute the anecdotal claims within this forum that sustains the theories and conjecture that continues to cause ontological concerns if doing so requires you to most likely exist based on those refuted claims like this that may very well validate your existence.


It's only because these theories based from circumstantial claims have yet to go through rigorous scientific approaches to validate those predictive measures (just like the self-fulfilling prophecy of treating a tulpa as a sentient being).

This isn’t to attack you or anything, I was just saying that hidden dualism is what would sustain your disposition that tulpas require only militant inward focus from the host’s end…even though they wouldn’t be dichotomous from unconscious processes (somatic or psychosomatic) that would play a larger role in development.

The efforts from the host in developing a tulpa can easily be associated from a psychological standpoint of contributing to the four stages of competence. No one is saying a host can be absolved from putting effort into a tulpa (maybe OP), especially since their own mind is a part of them either way, and there shouldn't be some false dichotomy created on your end to defend that conscious effort is needed without acknowledging that it would inevitably transcend to unconscious competence.

Because anyone can debate on factors such as:
  • How people of varying levels of cognition, genetic predispositions, and much more can contribute to how the host can conceptualize everything and the mind connecting them to presumably create a tulpa with reduced effort on the host's end (but not eradicating some effort).

    This may explain how the veterans may be concerned on how newcomers can make progress...it's probably because the newcomers just learn from the veteran's mistakes that may bring about faster progress.

But again, I’m not here to make you persuaded by OP’s case. Whether or not the story is plausible, it just shows the communities interested in the tulpa phenomenon still have a ways to go....and everything I've stated are just conjecture and theories. No need to take them seriously of course.


(This post was last modified: 01-08-2014, 02:59 AM by Linkzelda.)
01-08-2014, 01:51 AM
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