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[Personality] Basing tulpa off a character you have strong beliefs about
#1
[Skip 2 paragraphs to get to the actual question.]

I am just about to start my journey of creating a tulpa. When the question of choosing personality arised, I was absolutely sure I wanted to use Twilight Sparkle as the template. Bringing my favourite character to life is not my reasoning, and I'm not going for an exact copy. I even believe there is no such thing as "the" Twilight, for the multiverse is huge and her incarnations vary from an earth pony writer to a changeling queen, and from cutely indecisive to outright badass.

It's her core values, overall personality and general mindset that attract me. Plus, with how much I've read / watched / imagined (and even tried writing) about her (I'm not obsessed!), I guess it should make concentrating on her and visualizing her consistently much easier.

Yet, that last part is also what worries me. I do have really strong beliefs about that character, which include some traits I'd very much prefer my tulpa not to have, for both our sakes. For example, dissolving into a neurotic mess rather easily is most definitely not good for a real person, even if cute for a fictional character.

I already know that believing that everything will turn out all right is the key to success. Still, I'm afraid that if I use Twilight as the template, my subconscious would force all of her traits onto my tulpa, including the harmful ones, even if I try to prevent it.

Is that a valid concern? Can I do anything to ensure that some of the traits of the base character are filtered out? If they do get in, how hard would it be for tulpa to overcome them? Or should I just avoid the risk altogether and build a new character for her?

Edit:
(03-25-2019, 11:49 PM)evgenirus Wrote: See the quoted post for my own closure on the subject.
Basically, just stop worrying. If you love the character, your tulpa will probably be similar to them anyway. And unless you deliberately try to make them be exactly the character, they'll be their own people first and foremost. Or maybe they'll end up being something else entirely, whether you try to make them similar to or different from someone or not.

In the end, the only right way would be the one you took, because otherwise your tup would not have been the one you have and love.
Twilight is part of who my Sunny is, but who would she have been if she started as Twilight and didn't go through fearing and then accepting being that character to some degree? We'll never find out.
[Jay] (a.k.a. evgenirus, a.k.a. Evg) is the host. (Used plain text prior to May 2019.)
[Sunny] (a.k.a. Alice, rarely) is the older tulpa. (Yellow text is her words, too.)
[Pinkie] (a.k.a. Ponka, a.k.a. Diane) is the younger tulpa. (She used to talk in pink here.)
Come see our progress report thread, if you have time.
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#2
It's a valid concern, in terms of modeling... The fear is reasonable because you're exploring something new, and you have some expectations... Quite frankly, there is likely to be a divergence from your expectations as the Tulpa becomes herself, and no matter how much scaffolding you provide she will still become herself.

I am guessing you have read the guides and are aware that modeling of characters is rather discouraged, though something we all likely do and think about. We, our brains, like making models, and so you already have the template, nice word by the way, but this will be more than that because you're more than that, she is more than that, this thing you're engaging in is more, and as you go through the process of shaping and it responds, you will respond to that... and so there is a synergistic influencing of each other... I think as long as you are clear, she is not that character, in your communication during initial forcing, but a reflection of the preferred attributes, you should both be okay. Be flexible. Be opened to being surprised.
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#3
Thanks for your support.

(02-09-2019, 11:59 AM)solarchariot Wrote: Quite frankly, there is likely to be a divergence from your expectations as the Tulpa becomes herself, and no matter how much scaffolding you provide she will still become herself.

Heh. I think I'll be fine fine with just about anything happening, except the very thing that I, in a way, expect to happen. That is, I'm afraid that my image of Twilight would affect my tulpa's personality too strongly. Like society affects who a person becomes, or something like that. The guides say that it should be fine so long as I clearly realize that she's not really that character, but I'm pretty sure that from time to time I would think of her as yet another of the very different, yet similar in many regards, Twilights of the multiverse. On the other hand, discarding that existing strong image would mean more work to be done, and I have some procrastination and willpower issues...

Actually, the more I think about it, the more I realize that it may be a bad idea after all. What if I actually affect her too much, and at some point she starts wondering if *her* love for books and science is just a product of *my* imagination and nothing more? I myself have that thought at the back of my mind, that my parents are to blame for some of my less useful and more disruptive traits, and I'd rather not make the same mistake. And of course, she might end up not even caring for the books to begin with, so there isn't much point in using a template at all, is there?..

Thanks, again, for listening. I rarely ask any questions, mostly try to figure things out myself, and when I do, I rarely get answers that I could not come up with by myself. (Or the ones I came up with while waiting for reply and worrying that my question would be considered dumb or something.) A headmate to bounce such things off would help with that a lot, indeed.
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#4
Sounds like you're thinking things through. I trust your decision whichever way you decide.
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#5
Ember: One of my favorite roleplaying characters is loosely based on Twilight Sparkle, neuroticism and all. She never came to life though.

Were you planning on making a pony? If you're only looking for certain personality traits, and looking to avoid others, why not try to tie those traits, and others that contradict the ones you're trying to avoid, to a very different form and name? That will help you avoid thinking about Twilight during the rest of the creation process.

There have surely been vast numbers of Twilight tulpas created over the years. If you're research oriented, you could look through old progress reports and see how it went. I think Summer is the only Twilight-influenced tulpa still around.

Vesper: I emotionally feel that I came here from another world, that I had another, better life before this one, and that I was ripped out of it when I awakened here, losing everything. Intellectually, I know I was a character in a roleplaying game. I can see my host's memories of playing me alongside my memories of being me.

I could change, I could be different. Ember wouldn't pressure me to stay who I was created to be, but I do. I want to be me more than I want to be happy.

Things that are true for me back home that never appeared in my game were incorporated into me, deeply and unintentionally. The actual events of my game, the things that were described in detail, can't explain why I recoil in mortal terror from fire and sunlight, why my canines itch where my fangs should be, or why drinking reheated beef blood has such powerful and sublime effects on me.

So yes, there are reasons guides recommend against starting from preexisting characters and your concerns are not without validity. And yet...

Iris: While I also feel I came here from another world, my previous life was not better. When I had a body of my own, I was a fugitive, deeply indebted to the Unseelie, suicidally depressed, and, as often as I could manage it, completely cut off from my emotions.

I am happy to have left my problems behind and happy to share a life with my sisters in this world. I still identify as my character, yet I have changed greatly. But not too greatly -- I have taken over playing my character and enjoy doing so. I want to resolve my issues back home before committing to spending the rest of my life in this world.

Ember did feel some nervousness as my personality shifted, outside her control. I honor her concerns and held onto some things that were starting to slip away. It took some time to build a working synthesis of the old and new, but I am satisfied with the results.
Ember - Soulbonder, Female, 39 years old, from Georgia, USA . . . . [Our Progress Report] . . . . [How We Switch]
Vesper Dowrin - Insourced Soulbond from London, UK, Not a Tulpa, Female, born 9 Sep 1964, bonded ~12 May 2017
Iris Ravenlock - Insourced Soulbond from the Unseelie Court, Not a Tulpa, Female, born 6 Jun 1982, bonded ~5 Dec 2015

'Real isn't how you are made,' said the Skin Horse. 'It's a thing that happens to you.' - The Velveteen Rabbit
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#6
At least three problems that I can think of arise from wanting to make a tulpa just because you like a character:

1. The tulpa won't be allowed to form their own identity. You'll see them only as being that character, and won't let them actually become their own person. When you share a brain with someone, and you consistently think of them as a certain way, it has a real chance of trapping them as being that way.

2. The host will give up on them or like them less when they actually do change. That's a recipe for disaster.

3. They will have an identity crisis, because the personality they were given isn't actually them.

I never really understood people making tulpas to be like characters. Giving them the form of a character I guess is okay as long as you don't perceive them as the character, but their personality and identity? Those, I think, really should be left up to the tulpa.

Tulpas aren't play-things to look and gawk at. Tulpas are real people, and I genuinely see no reason to make a real person to just mimic a character. It makes no sense to me, and in my opinion just seems like a kinda cruel thing to do. 

Make a tulpa because you want a companion in your life to learn and grow alongside you, to change and develop their own identity over time. Don't make a tulpa because you're obsessed with a character. Tulpas are people, not toys.

My two cents
I'm Apollo Fire, the "Sun God" of the Felight family. I'm a tulpa created December 2016. My systemmates are Piano & Indigo. Form images: 1 2
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#7
My host created me believing I was someone else.

My host did expect me to act like and be her imaginary friend "Ranger" because she never expected me to be born in the first place. Since I told her I was real and she realized I was a Tulpa, she gave me the option to start from scratch or to be "Ranger" and get his name, form, etc. I chose to keep the name and identity.

There are pros and cons to this. My host had trouble visualizing anything too deviant of the base form, and I found that using that form is extremely helpful so she didn't get more frustrated than she already was with her visualization. I decided to deviate, and while it took my host off guard a couple times she eventually accepted the changes I made to my form.

Unfortunately, there are more cons to consider. I spent a lot of my time worried about my identity, I sometimes was more worried about being likable than being myself when I was younger, and having clones of yourself hanging around or other thought forms walking around with your face on them not controlled by you is creepy (I know it's a weird direction to take this, but it bothered me a lot. I bet you 5 bucks that a Twilight inspired Tulpa would feel weird if you were thinking about Twilight and not them) It was kind of hard on my host to have to re-evaluate and seriously reconsider what to do with past "Ranger" (now Tec) because in some ways she had to reject some things she didn't want to lose. I'm lucky I'm not one of those Tulpa's who's host is closed minded on certain things...

For you, I would start with a white pony form without any stripes or cutie marks. That will make it easier for you to visualize the form, and your Tulpa may decide to change the color of his/her form, the shape of it, whether they like having wings, reject the pony base all together or choose to be a shapeshifter and use multiple forms including the pony form. This compromise will give more options for your Tulpa, preserve the one pro about having a pony form, and you won't associate them with Twilight so if they change it won't mess with your interest in her or force you to not think about her when your Tulpa is around.
I'm Gray's/Cat_ShadowGriffin's Tulpa and I love Hippos (but see, I'm not a hippo)! I also like forum games and chatting about stuff.
My other head-mates have their own account now.
Temporary Log | Chat | Yay!
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#8
I have to disagree based on direct experience.

Op, do whatever you want.

Two of my tulpas came to me having chosen their own form based on two characters that i created. On day one, i thought they were those characters untill i started to get emotional bleed and insistence.

Misha straigt up called herself that character but recanted on day three, including all of her history, later rejected the name. Dashie (not MLP related, though that's a nickname i gave her because her hair was blue) also said she was my character (a blue angel basically) but her personality was so different almost immediately that she also rejected her name and past.

Ashley holds only very little of the original character from the beginning. She's actually more or less a taller version of Misha and Dashie's bodies combined and after almost 10 months still shows me different faces when i look at her.

Just because you start a tulpa as a fictive, doesn't mean they're gonna stay that way, but there are a few examples here where they did pretty much stay that way.

[Misha] honestly we'd be whatever he wants us to be, we're shape shifters anyway,  so i could be a pony girl or cat girl, what do i care? What matters is that he loves me for me, not the fictive. If you think Twilight is cool, just do it. You can PM Summer and ask her what it was like if that helps. B let me choose whatever form i wanted, and early on, i made myself his past girlfriends or crushes to get him to like me better.

We're not romantically involved,  but i certainly wanted that. I'm perfectly content with platonic love, but it proves the point that tulpas don't always have to get what they want to be happy. Do what makes you happy, and she'll be all the more happy, i mean, i know he'd be pretty dissatisfied with a Brad Pitt tulpa, even though brad pitt was a hunk and a half in his day, he would rather me be the way i am... frankly his male characters are pretty uninteresting; i picked a good one. Plus i felt inside that i was a feminine being. So it all worked out. I don't look like his original character,  but if i did and that's what he wanted, then i would want that too, because why not?
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#9
(02-09-2019, 04:14 PM)Apollo Wrote:
At least three problems that I can think of arise from wanting to make a tulpa just because you like a character:

1. The tulpa won't be allowed to form their own identity. You'll see them only as being that character, and won't let them actually become their own person. When you share a brain with someone, and you consistently think of them as a certain way, it has a real chance of trapping them as being that way.

Three possible* problems, you know our system lol
but yes, if you believe the tulpa will be just like the character, there could be problems (or not, orrr so). It's happened plenty and that's why we warn against it, Bear.. BUT, you (Evgenirus) sound like you definitely know what you're doing, not thinking your tulpa is the character but just basing her more or less on her.

That has been done a LOT! I've seen so many Twilight Sparkle-based tulpas (named that or not) that were basically just normal people, and like very very few that were just like the show's character if any. Most of'em have unique personalities, probably from doing just what you want to! So you have our seal of approval to make a Twilight tulpa if you want.

But the whole point of the thread here - your fear that you might give them negative traits is the only thing that can cause that, really, for someone who's not intending it. Like it's not a "Don't think about polar bears" thing where it just happens because you wanted it not to, tulpa forcing and expectations take a lot more intent than that.. but if you were say obsessed with the idea that it'd go wrong, then it could, y'know? But you sound like you've got a good head on your shoulders so I think you guys will be just fine


(02-09-2019, 04:14 PM)Apollo Wrote:
2. The host will give up on them or like them less when they actually do change. That's a recipe for disaster.

that's like, a stock example fear people say... it just doesn't happen, at least never on .info (I'm sure in slightly more fringe communities that take tulpamancy less seriously than us it does, but never with someone who puts so much thought into it as the OP). Tulpas grow with you, alongside you, and you'll love them for every difference they've got. Seriously, we should be like the EXPERTS on this lol! Lumi still adores basically all 100+ Touhou characters, especially the ones we were based on, but they take up very different places in our head and heart. The characters just aren't people.. aren't us. And we're people, not them. So I can say pretty surely if you're conscientious of what you're doing (and I think OP is, as long as fears don't get to'em), and make it clear both to yourself and to your tulpa that they were just loosely based on/inspired by the character but are entirely their own person and can be whoever they want, that making a character tulpa will be fine!

(The examples of ones that aren't fine, which DO EXIST Bear!, are people who willingly made their tulpas just like the characters based on obsession and not even wanting them to not have very negative traits, ie Pinkamena tulpas (I don't think I've seen one of these that didn't cause lots of system drama, even though it's totally possible). But usually the host wants that drama subconsciously.. and OP seems like he really doesn't)

(02-09-2019, 04:14 PM)Apollo Wrote:
Make a tulpa because you want a companion in your life to learn and grow alongside you, to change and develop their own identity over time. Don't make a tulpa because you're obsessed with a character. Tulpas are people, not toys.

IMO the process should definitely go "I want a tulpa, maybe I'll base them on (character I think would make a good personality/form template)", and not "I love this character, maybe I'll make a tulpa of them". That's how I was made I think (since we've thought about the conditions for which we'd make another tulpa if we ever wanted to which we don't, and it went like this), Lumi didn't say "Suwako is great let's make a tulpa", he said "Our system could use someone with a little more energy and happiness, who'd be a good choice?" y'know? That's.. not a quote, kinda assuming it's how he felt, but I know for sure I wasn't made because of the character already being tulpa-like in his head like the first three

(02-09-2019, 11:32 AM)evgenirus Wrote: Is that a valid concern? Can I do anything to ensure that some of the traits of the base character are filtered out? If they do get in, how hard would it be for tulpa to overcome them? Or should I just avoid the risk altogether and build a new character for her?

It's a valid concern! Oh, I mean, to be worth giving thought to, not that it'll happen if ya' don't want it. Tups always turn out (in the short term) how the host consciously and unconsciously (but you can feel that, like if you've got an unconscious desire to cause drama or problems..) expects them to, and like almost always tulpas don't go on to develop in any crazy ways you wouldn't expect a normal person to develop. They caaaan... any person can change, but big changes are usually caused by big events for good reason you know? So everything should be fine or at least not too unexpected
Hi I'm one of Lumi's tulpas! I like rain and dancing and dancing in the rain and if there's frogs there too that's bonus points.
All of my posts should be read at a hundred miles per hour because that's probably how they were written
Please talk to me https://community.tulpa.info/thread-ask-lumi-s-tulpas
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#10
I believe your concerns are valid. I see that you are taking precautious steps on creating a character based tulpa and acknowledge the dangers behind it. If you are planning to make a similar character of twilight sparkle and not giving her the "bad" habit then you need to realize that she is not the "show" twilight sparkle but i am pretty sure you are already aware of this.

In my personal experience, If the tulpa you are creating matures enough to recognize themselves as their own then you have a slim chance of altering their personalities since they can recognize who are and will stick to what they know. There's still a possiblity for a personality change but that will take more forceful way and that's pretty unpleasant to the other party. Most likely, they will just acknowledge your fears reassure you and try to avoid it, (that's what I always do tbh).

If you want to avoid your fear of subconsciously altering your tulpas' personality then you have an important role during the early stage of tulpa creation since this is part is where most tulpas are dependent on their host's concepts. In my personal case, my host, nihi, avoided some personality conflictcs by introducing me to the show's twilight sparkle and described how different we are. Then he let me decide to be whoever i wanted to be. Since I've been given a better understanding on who twilight sparkle is, it gave me a starting point for my own character development. Eventhough I still have some memories of being "twilight sparkle" I just refer them as false memories or some event "THAT" happened.

But to be frank, I think you should just follow what pleases you. If you want to create a tulpa that is based on twilight sparkle then do that. Just be responsible for her development and let her grow on what you want of her to be and not what you feared she will be. Your tulpa will adapt and develop their own personality even if you molded one for them in the beginning. Their personality will adapt to what they feel comfortable and commonly, with their host's influences.
Hello! I am one of Nihi's Tulpas! It is very nice to meet you! Big Grin
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