Hello There, Guest! Register

[Possession] Mutual Possession.

RE: Mutual Possession.

[yeah it gets confusing sometimes refering to ourselves... because it is like having 3 people in here at once... but Red sees me as exactly the same as himself, to him i am as real as he is sweetie]
06-14-2013, 02:26 AM

Lolflash - click it, you know you want to

Xeare Away

Posts: 306
Threads: 23
Joined: Mar 2013
Default  RE: Mutual Possession.

(This post was last modified: 08-31-2018, 10:09 AM by Xeare.)
06-14-2013, 04:24 AM
Find Reply
Kiahdaj Offline
Sans presence

Posts: 1,368
Threads: 31
Joined: Aug 2012
RE: Mutual Possession.

I don't understand the point that is trying to be made here, half the time. From the looks of it, this is already something that tulpas can do, and that is nothing new. I believe, either this guide needs to be re-written for clarity, or it wasn't an extremely useful guide in the first place.

"If this can be avoided, it should. If it can't, then it would be better if it could be. If it happened and you're thinking back to it, try and think back further. Try not to avoid it with your mind. If any of this is possible, it may be helpful. If not, it won't be."
11-15-2013, 11:30 PM
Find Reply

RE: Mutual Possession.

new edit.
11-29-2013, 05:01 AM
Linkzelda Offline
>MFW Image Streaming

Posts: 2,006
Threads: 30
Joined: Oct 2012
2 Attached Accounts
RE: Mutual Possession.

Like Kiahdaj mentioned, most points stated here could probably use a bit more explanation. There seems to be implications of a holistic and dualistic experiences for possession (i.e. body being a separate entity to the host and tulpa).

I can understand that you wanted to give a picture for visual representation of the implied dichotomy for the sake of hopefully bringing things together, but it’s clear that body and mind, and even tulpa aren’t as dichotomous as you were implying those three aspects to be.

And Proxying isn’t necessarily the conduit for both host and tulpa to feed information from the body. I think it’s more pragmatic to mention it’s through the mind, not just the body. Sure, there may be psychosomatic experiences that would occur (i.e. if the mind believes so, the body would conform to those psychological predispositions), but the dualism doesn’t work out here.

And I honestly don’t think there’s a “half,” “sorta,” or even a “kinda” possession. It’s just something that progressively improves over time and practice. I can understand the labels are just for the sake of comprehension and not something to be taken to absolute standards as indicators, but it’s just leads to ambiguity for anyone trying to get into possession in general.

The intention is definitely out there, which is good, but the explanations with the holistic and dualism and trying to make the two terms coexist is just contradicting.

I think this guide submission can be updated for better comprehension, but it gets my disapproval for the time being.

12-06-2013, 11:26 PM
Find Reply
Sands Offline
And Roswell

Posts: 2,119
Threads: 9
Joined: Jun 2012
RE: Mutual Possession.

Wow such symbolism. Anyways few weird lines...

>what i see, she sees, at the same time.

That is called sense sharing.

>The host can be asleep but the body and tulpa are awake so the tulpa is mostly in control.

That is closer to switching. Except you have some weird beliefs of the body being something something so eh.

The rest is weird and confusing and I have no idea what you're even after. Just do possession, people. You'll actually get somewhere. Disapproved.

The THE SUBCONCIOUS ochinchin occultists frt.sys (except Roswell because he doesn't want to be a part of it)
02-12-2014, 02:28 PM
Find Reply

RE: Mutual Possession.

"And i am Pinkie."
Why is the I lowercase, did she specify it was lowercase, did you get the feeling she wanted to be deliberately grammatically incorrect? A simple oversight?

Nice descriptions of your personal experiences, but there's nothing new here. Disapproved for guides, but does make a nice general discussion.
02-13-2014, 06:52 AM
NotAnonymous Offline

Posts: 220
Threads: 0
Joined: May 2012
RE: Mutual Possession.

This has too little content to be a Guide. It could fit in Tips, but there's quite a few parts which are very unclear/questionable/viewpoint-based/personal. I think the best fit for this would be General Discussion, rather than the Guides section.

The post has a lot of spelling/grammar/structure issues and that would need fixing if this were to be approved.

Now for the actual post:

It appears to be a description of how the author and his tulpa interact with the body, likely going from assisted possession, unassisted possession, switching, "cofronting" and so on.
That is, this is more about how they conceptualize the interactions between themselves and their body.

Red_M Wrote:Pinkie: "We both control the body at the same time without having to hinder another's senses/control with the body."
exactly. what i see, she sees, at the same time.

we still get feedback from senses even if we are not the one using that part of my body at the time.
Possession is essentially that. When sensory dissociation is involved to the point where someone doesn't access the senses, then it becomes switching.

Red_M Wrote:Pinkie: "Also this differs from regular possession because even though i have hooves and no hands i haven't needed to learn how to use Red's fingers because i use the same section of his brain that he uses to control his body"
This is not that unusual, even if some tulpas may have some issues/confusion/dysphoria with using the body, while others may find it natural.

Red_M Wrote:Pinkie: "Some things to note that Mutual possession can do:

* The host can be asleep but the body and tulpa are awake so the tulpa is mostly in control.
This is close to switching, that is, the host not being conscious of what the body is doing. Although, most people would prefer switching to actually involve the other party being conscious of imaginary/virtual senses, rather than not thinking/not being conscious.

Red_M Wrote:The body is like a separate entity to the host and tulpa.
I suppose some people may treat their body like that, although a more common viewpoint seems to be that whoever uses the body tends to identify with it more, rather than always seeing it as something external.

Red_M Wrote:* The body will side with the host than with the tulpa because the host has been in the body longer than the tulpa.
* More control is given to the tulpa when the host is asleep.
Not unusual with either possession or switching. At least for some people, it seems their tulpas end up better accessing senses than with possession, although this isn't a hard requirement - there are tulpas who end up perfectly sharing senses even while possessing - and there are tulpas who never learn that skill properly, but end up being 'forced' to experience the senses fully when they switch.

Red_M Wrote:The host and tulpa can be asleep but the body can be awake... (this has happened, don't worry it just sits there because no one is in the "driver seat")
This is somewhat unusual, although I've heard of a handful of people who have had such experiences, although they do seem uncommon - a more common experience seems to be that someone is always experiencing the senses, be it the host or a tulpa. However, exceptions exist.
I would say this bit is very personal.

Red_M Wrote:now what you'll need for this is:
* A vocal Tulpa. (preferably only one)
Why only one? Is there an issue someone with multiple tulpas could experience or is this more of a personal preference?

Red_M Wrote:* Yourself
Could you be missing yourself?

Red_M Wrote:* a small amount of parallel processing (helps a lot. A good idea is to play the game Audiosurf to improve your parallel processing.)
So an independent tulpa or at least one that can think on their own? I would say that's sort of what makes a tulpa a tulpa to begin with.

The first part of the method is essentially symbolism, which might work, but may also be more complicated than needed - it may qualify as Tips material for doing sense sharing/possession, but it's of the same class as symbolism as "turning some speakers higher" to better hear your tulpa.

Red_M Wrote:One other way you could achieve mutual possession via proxying is to get very good with proxying the tulpa out to the world and have a little bit of parallel processing then you can just proxy back senses to your tulpa.

what you are effectively trying to do is to give your tulpa access to your senses and body while still having access to that sense/body part at the same time. which is why having parallel processing is important when trying this.
This part is quite unclear. Does it talk about assisted possession (doing the movements for the tulpa yourself), or actual proxying, but of movements, or vocal proxying? or something else?
My current understanding of this is that of assisted possession+sensory sharing, maybe dipping a bit into unassisted possession.

And again, the parallel processing requirement is fine and all, but it's just something the tulpa should have if they're at least a bit independent - most advanced skills, be they unassisted possession or switching require the tulpa to be more or less independent (although it's also possible to train independence using possession to a certain degree).

The posted diagrams unfortunately don't clear up too much, aside from making it seem that the guide author treats the body as a separate entity that both them and the tulpa have access to - which was also mentioned before in the guide.

Red_M Wrote:So we both react to stimuli at the same time but we don't block out each other from stimuli.
As long as the host is still in there, then it's possession, otherwise it's switching. What does "block out each other from stimuli" mean? Does it mean sensory dissociation, or does it mean that before this only the host or only the tulpa could control the body?
As far as most people go, possession is always "mutual possession" close to how it's defined here, with a few potential differences which are personal, which sometimes grows into full-body possession (unassisted) which sometimes grows into switching. A few rare cases of jumping straight from assisted possession to switching are also known.

Red_M Wrote:EDIT: Pinkie: "This kind of thing is more so to do with how tulpa and host interact and how the tulpa talks out to the host's body."
The wording of "how the tulpa talks out to the host's body" is unclear. What does it mean to "talk out to the host's body"?

As for the other edits: I would say that historically, the definition of possession always implied that the host is always in there and that they could move the body as they wished - while their job was to learn to not interfere with their tulpa learning to possess - but usually it's always been an option, even controlling one body part by the host and another by the tulpa.

The rest of the thread has quite a bit of discussion and I think it would make more sense for this thread to be in General Discussion rather than Tips or Guides.

If all the spelling/grammar/structural issues were fixed, it may still be too symbolic to constitute a guide.

However, despite all this, I do think it's important for people to see how other people conceptualize their tulpa and their interactions with themselves and the rest of the world - getting reports of other people's experiences/belief systems is useful and the author's post is one such example. We've had various other similar 'guides' which weren't approved due to being somewhat similar in content, or which redefined well-established terms too much - if there was some sort of board for such contents (for more diverse viewpoints/belief systems), this may belong there, however as it is, I think this best belongs in General Discussion.

Red_M Wrote:[it gets fun sometimes when Red passes out and i have to get him home again... balance is weird]
This does seem to be a bit of an intermediate step to switching some people go through, although I've seen some people disagree about it being normal or a good thing - most people do seem to dislike ending up in such a state, despite it being not entirely uncommon, but it also seems to be an intermediate step that goes away the better the host learns to generate their own senses in their imagination (rather than stopping thinking when the tulpa is controlling the body).
02-14-2014, 09:35 PM
Find Reply
schlondark Offline

Posts: 191
Threads: 5
Joined: Jul 2012
RE: Mutual Possession.

Host being asleep is not necessarily a unique factor of this type of possession and has been reported without it.
"Body as entity" Line makes no sense in context
"Some things mutual possession can do" seems more like "My theories on this"
the (preferably only one) line is perplexing at best
Audiosurf suggestion is out of left field and doesn't explain how/why it supposedly helps
Mutual possession does not seem distinguishable from normal possession in any measurable way, at least as is currently stated in the guide.

Disapproved for now, possibly approved eventually once the guide is clearer on what it is trying to state / becomes more of a guide than a theory presentation.
02-14-2014, 09:35 PM
Find Reply
waffles Offline
no capital

Posts: 1,184
Threads: 25
Joined: Sep 2012
1 Attached Account
RE: Mutual Possession.

Your writing is unclear and confusing, the thing is pretty sloppily structured, your grammar is poor, and you don't really tell us enough for this guide to help us. So disapproved.
02-15-2014, 01:43 PM
Find Reply

Forum Jump:

Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)

Lolflash - click it, you know you want to

Contact Us | Tulpa.Info | Return to Top | Return to Content | Mobile Version | RSS Syndication