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[Possession] Oguigi & Koomer Possession Starter guide
#71
I'll take it down until Oguigi updates it, if ever. Alternatively the remaining four GATs could all approve but I think the chances of that are slim.
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#72
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Hello guys, koomer here. I've been lurking this thread for sometime and i think it's time to respond.

Okay, I notice there has been some discussion going on with this guide. I read the recent comments and i do agree with most things that have been said.

I cannot improve the grammar, because my English writing skills are simply not good enough. But If someone is willing to give this guide a second look and improve the grammar like Chupi did in the past
then i'll welcome it and update the guide with the new version as soon as i can.


As for the finer details of the guides, Oguigi herself will have to comment on that. I simply lack the intuition to answer those issues.
Oguigi wrote this guide, Personally my feelings on possession is mixed after the stuff i went though in the recent months. And i kinda wanted to take down the guide a few times because of it. But we're still actually interested in this guide, if it can be improved then am all for it.

I can bring out Oguigi to deal with the finer details if requested.
pix: Link
Diary: http://ponystasha.tumblr.com
Koomer.
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#73
Yeah, sure it was requested. I've edited the last part of the guide for readability here but I'm not sure if anything was lost in translation so you might want to check that yourself.

Well, I approve now anyway.
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#74
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(12-24-2013, 05:30 PM)waffles Wrote: Yeah, sure it was requested. I've edited the last part of the guide for readability here but I'm not sure if anything was lost in translation so you might want to check that yourself.

Oguigi here, It took some time for koomer to bring me in, Turns out i have much less energy than i did in the past.

I've love the new grammar waffles, my eyes flow though the words much easier, Nothing was lost in translation.
The Guide has been updated with the new section.




Hello NotAnonymous and the other members of the GAT, am going address some of the questions you had.


(12-21-2013, 07:16 AM)NotAnonymous Wrote: "Doubt on the host's part is counter-productive, and not everyone will feel alien movements."
This advice may be a bit counter-productive in itself and may lead to the parroting equivalent for possession.

(12-08-2013, 02:37 PM)Sands Wrote: I would really like to see the don't doubt part removed from this before I approve of it.

I agree, and the part has been removed.



(12-21-2013, 07:16 AM)NotAnonymous Wrote: The recently added "Trouble shooting & Guide clarification" section which is aimed at what they call direct possession (or unassisted possession, essentially without proxying movement or intent, but "just doing it") does mostly fix some of my earlier complaints, however it still does not inform the host about the right feelings they need to be looking for

The "Trouble shooting & Guide clarification" has been improved thanks to waffle post, fixing some errors it had earlier.

Now about the feelings, for someone who's starting possession it could vary. but if your muscles are tensing up without your absolute consent, if you notice some resistances in moving the possessed part of the body with your own will power no matter how small, or if you feel "energy" flowing to the effected area, then those will be some realible signs/feelings to look for with being possessed.

If this explanation satisfy you and/or another members of the GAT then let me know, I will then offer someone to improve the grammar of that paragraph. and then I plug that part in the appropriate spot within the guide.



(12-21-2013, 07:16 AM)NotAnonymous Wrote: I'm willing to change my vote to approved once the editing has been done and one of these 2 happens:
1) Getting more reports of unassisted possession and/or (sensory dissociation) switching DESPITE the movement feeling like themselves at the first - thus confirming this advice as being non-harmful (although it would still say nothing of the effects on a tulpa which doesn't consider itself independent).
2) More clarification on what the host should be feeling (ex. sensory dissociation, lack of sense of ownership over the movement, etc).

Number 2 can be done. But Number 1 i don't think can be done, I simply cannot prove if this advice is harmful or not to switching. All I can give you is my word, that this guide/method is compatible with switching and that this guide will never stop a determined host from achieving it.
pix: Link
Diary: http://ponystasha.tumblr.com
Koomer.
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#75
Well, when the whole DON'T DOUBT thing is removed, the entire thing is already better. Also now the part that was added later is actually in English, so that's a plus.

One thing I wonder about though. Mainly, "What I am about to write is aimed at tulpae, because we are the ones primarily responsible for whether possession works or not". Not quite so and later on you even go on about team effort, which is closer to truth.

The main fault of this guide? It only describes half of possession. At its simplest, yes, for the hosts possession is just "letting go". But that goes both ways and for tulpas it's just "take control". If you can write this much about "taking control", then where's the "letting go" part? It's missing and this is just half of the entire thing, guiding the tulpa through something they just won't be able to do if the host is the one not able to do their part, which is letting go. Which countless of hosts need help to do.

I think you might want to read this guide again and write more about those parts. You're not as helpful as you think you are when you only help them through half of the process, leaving the hosts completely out of it. Maybe that's why people had some success earlier because you said "don't doubt", sort of... Makes me think like maybe there was no actual possession there because the host had no idea what to do except "don't doubt". I think this guide would be 100% better when it actually helps both sides the same way.

Some minor nitpicks seeing that you are actually editing this, I think some of that OMG WRITTEN BY TULPA which is said like way too many times at the start could be removed. Also this could do with replacing "tulpae" with "tulpas".

I could approve of this possession guide as it most likely will help hosts and tuppers understand what the tulpa does and how. But I would really like to see you add a host guide as well.
The THE SUBCONCIOUS ochinchin occultists frt.sys (except Roswell because he doesn't want to be a part of it)
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#76
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(01-02-2014, 12:36 PM)Sands Wrote: Well, when the whole DON'T DOUBT thing is removed, the entire thing is already better. Also now the part that was added later is actually in English, so that's a plus.

One thing I wonder about though. Mainly, "What I am about to write is aimed at tulpae, because we are the ones primarily responsible for whether possession works or not". Not quite so and later on you even go on about team effort, which is closer to truth.

The main fault of this guide? It only describes half of possession. At its simplest, yes, for the hosts possession is just "letting go". But that goes both ways and for tulpas it's just "take control". If you can write this much about "taking control", then where's the "letting go" part? It's missing and this is just half of the entire thing, guiding the tulpa through something they just won't be able to do if the host is the one not able to do their part, which is letting go. Which countless of hosts need help to do.

I think you might want to read this guide again and write more about those parts. You're not as helpful as you think you are when you only help them through half of the process, leaving the hosts completely out of it. Maybe that's why people had some success earlier because you said "don't doubt", sort of... Makes me think like maybe there was no actual possession there because the host had no idea what to do except "don't doubt". I think this guide would be 100% better when it actually helps both sides the same way.

Some minor nitpicks seeing that you are actually editing this, I think some of that OMG WRITTEN BY TULPA which is said like way too many times at the start could be removed. Also this could do with replacing "tulpae" with "tulpas".

I could approve of this possession guide as it most likely will help hosts and tuppers understand what the tulpa does and how. But I would really like to see you add a host guide as well.

I have removed the editor's note (this was written by a tulpa) part, But I still do believe that the rest of the intro is important for the structure of the guide.

Am afraid i cannot give any absolute advice on "letting go", The one reason why this is a problem for some would be because "letting go" is a bit different for us all, It's a switch that some people don't know how to flip, it's subconscious and sometimes the sub can be stubborn, and some people just don't have the patience to work with that. All i can say about Relaxing and letting go, is to open your self up and 'surrender' to your tulpa will and intentions. beside recommending mediation or hypnosis on top of that, there's not much more I can say.

And If you want I can add a small section of what i just said in the guide, if you want something directed to the host.

(01-02-2014, 12:36 PM)Sands Wrote: You're not as helpful as you think you are when you only help them through half of the process, leaving the hosts completely out of it. Maybe that's why people had some success earlier because you said "don't doubt", sort of... Makes me think like maybe there was no actual possession there because the host had no idea what to do except "don't doubt". I think this guide would be 100% better when it actually helps both sides the same way.

I promise you that the possession is real, there's nothing fake going on, with this method.

The tulpa plays most the important role. It's not half, but more like 80 percent.



Going in depth with the host, was never necessary, this is why.

We wanted this guide to be relatively simple, as short as possible and to the point.
i did not want to change the core of the guide, it was originality written with tulpas as the key point. Tulpas are still the ones primarily responsible if the possession works or not. How deeply a host can "let go" or "relax" will just
make it easier for the tulpa. What's more important is the strength of the tulpa (the guide inform the tulpa how to direct their current strength/power/energy to most effectively take control of the physical body), some are simply too weak at the time to get a grip on the body; with some training, relaxing your muscles and opening up to your tulpa is all that's needed.

All host knows what Relaxing is, Every host has their own way, some can go deeper than other.

I also think that the "letting go" you have in mind may be closer to 'switching', If that's the case i won't be giving any information or guidance on that (Writing a guide for that would be very different, in which case that tulpa will play no or little part in), This method of possession does not require that level of "letting go"
pix: Link
Diary: http://ponystasha.tumblr.com
Koomer.
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#77
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Your intro was fine, the editor's note was too much, so this is better. Saying the same thing twice is useless, you know?

Anyways. Letting go is just as subjective as taking control for a tulpa. What you wrote is the basic idea with some pointers that won't work for everyone. So writing about letting go isn't technically any harder or more personal than what was already written.

Also there is no magical "the subconscious" that is a separate entity that decides whether you can let go or not.

Quote:I promise you that the possession is real, there's nothing fake going on, with this method.

I am talking of the people who tried to guide and reported success. You can't know for sure if they did do it or not, and they might not either seeing that your early advice was rather dangerous.

Quote:The tulpa plays most the important role. It's not half, but more like 80 percent.

Except that the host letting go seems to be the number one problem people with possession have. Even if your numbers were closer to truth than 50/50, that 80% will mean jack shit when that 20% is what allows the 80% to start working. A tulpa can't do anything when the host is in control and there is no way for them to lend the controls over, so to speak. That is what a host could really use a possession guide for. During possession, host has the hard part done and can just enjoy and do nothing. But to actually get it started, the host is needed and the host plays a big part.

But hey, you're the kind who things that the tupper is so much stronger and can do everything because you are so weak, so I can see why you think this way, not really understanding how much you do to get the possession started. But that's clouded by your own opinions.

No, letting go isn't closer to switching. It's the start of unassisted possession, the first step. Switching is a step much further back in the line. And again, the letting go part is what hosts struggle with.

And that's why this is only a half of a possession guide. Again, approvable and all, but it is only half of the entire thing. Not a full guide and it won't help the hosts at all.


edit: help
The THE SUBCONCIOUS ochinchin occultists frt.sys (except Roswell because he doesn't want to be a part of it)
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#78
Sands Wrote:Also there is no magical "the subconscious" that is a separate entity that decides whether you can let go or not.

The term is merely utilized for conceptualizing how the mind may work. But it should not be implied that it’s as black and white into thinking the subconscious is a monolithic being that is more dichotomous from the host. If anyone honestly thinks the guide is endorsing that, then they’re either too incompetent to understand what analogies/metaphors/etc. are used to conceptualize things and also solely believing there’s some kind of panpsychism/otherworldly entity going on with the subconscious/unconscious.

Quote: I am talking of the people who tried to guide and reported success. You can't know for sure if they did do it or not, and they might not either seeing that your early advice was rather dangerous.

Even if you can’t be too sure with the testimonials, circumstantial cases, experiential truths, and other forms of anecdotal evidence from others, it should be obvious that this whole forum is derived from the totality of the communal effort of conjecture and theories.

And since you can only present scenarios with “might” and “what ifs,” especially when you believe the advice was rather dangerous, it shouldn’t be too difficult for the reader to understand how to practice possession safely.
  • Find a safe spot
  • Use symbolism and other forms of conceptualizing the tulpa’s existence
  • Practice (like the guide stated)
  • Don’t go out on a busy street if you’re not proficient with possession

The only way for the advice to be rather dangerous is if the person had no competency of their general safety. It can also be dangerous if the person is extremely paranoid, has massive cognitive dissonance with doubt, and can get nowhere and ends up going into a self-sabotaging behavior. But if anything, the guide maker can just add a minor disclaimer of hosts and tulpas to be considerate of their well-being, even though a person knowing how to stay alive should be implied in the first place.

If you’re talking about danger in how the person makes a conceptual framework to understand the concept of possession, then the solution to that is for them to practice changing their habits and attaching their focus towards other thoughts that aren’t detrimental.

Sands Wrote:But hey, you're the kind who things that the tupper is so much stronger and can do everything because you are so weak, so I can see why you think this way, not really understanding how much you do to get the possession started. But that's clouded by your own opinions.

Quite the euphemistic ad hominem you’ve utilized, but this is merely fixating on past circumstantial cases from OP. Maybe you’re not considering that OP, if I recall correctly from their progress report, they obviously learned a brutal lesson when it came to thinking that tulpas can be their first-hand mode of thinking instead of a vicarious/second-hand mode of insight and help.

Though for you to actually mention this is presuming that their past experiential events would be imposed on the guide is merely based on whether or not the reader actually knew they had struggles with possession and conflicts with their tulpa.

And even if they did come to the realization of that struggle, how OP would be able to rise above that struggle would add on to the guide having some plausibility because they went through the worst in order to find out how to make the process better. But because they admitted that their English isn’t as proficient, they requested for help in clarification, which Waffles did an exceptional job in doing so.

So maybe a better approach, despite of it likely being approved, is for OP to get some co-authors for clarification should there still be spelling and grammar issues.

As for the parts I agree with you on Sands, percentages are pretty much useless considering there has yet to be any deductive means of supporting the OP’s ad hoc claims. So in a way, the section with that percentage is a bit self-stultifying on their end, but seeing how that’s not in their guide (at least directly), it’s just their way of explaining.

Sure, it may not be something plausible, but it’s not in the guide fortunately.


Sands Wrote:And that's why this is only a half of a possession guide. Again, approvable and all, but it is only half of the entire thing. Not a full guide and it won't help the hosts at all.

Actually, this isn’t a pragmatic moment for you to use an imaginative appeal to the populace to say it wouldn’t work. If anything, considering how the GAT system would give these types of guide submissions the chance to accumulate testimonials (e.g. anecdotal cases, circumstantial, experiential truths), what you stated just now may end up being moot.

So maybe if this guide submission gets shifted, there will be the downtime for others to put in their responses, and then we’ll see if your claim that it won’t help hosts at all will still be plausible.

And since the GAT system promotes others to provide their own testimonials, I’ll go ahead and give mine:


When I read this guide in the past, this was honestly one where I was very skeptical at first, but considering how the concepts were akin to lucid dreaming and how I would shift perceptions with several thought-forms in both non-lucid and lucid dreams, it wasn’t that difficult to comprehend. When I extracted the underlying concepts, it was a wealth of information to me (during my initial stages before creating my own concepts of possession of course)

And when trying to understand the concept of tulpa, I could easily make my own symbolism instead of OP having to do it for me. Since after all, if they only present a few modes of symbolism and demand that the reader only follows that, it would be considered bullshit.

But OP clearly didn’t imply that or state it directly. The concept was clear, and I hardly saw any cloud of judgment within the guide. The only way for someone to believe that was the case is if they had predispositions based on OP’s experiential cases that are completely separate from the guide submission itself.

I knew that OP was in a struggle with possession, and I even disliked that they wanted to cop out from reality with no means of going back. But I’ve kept an eye on their progress report and realized they’re gradually coming into the realization that they have to start getting used to sharing the responsibility with their tulpa rather than having the tulpa doing the first-hand work for the rest of their lives.

When I combined this guide with my own supplementary means (e.g. hypnosis, lucid dreaming concepts, meditation, etc.), I started getting similar sensations OP described. Of course, there were subtle differences, like getting a fuzzy feeling for my arm when I went through the implications of Eva taking control.

As for the part with the host lending control, I saw it in a completely different matter. I merely applied an inward attention to symbolism, guided imagery, and such to the body part I wanted Eva to move. It was simple as that, and there wasn’t any implication of the tulpa having full control over the rest of my body, just a part of it.

And just like with any skill that seems to be too extreme to accomplish, I took this guide as a supplementary shift to the right direction with my own concepts to have Eva get a good control over my hands, arms, and legs.

In fact, because of that gradual progression in going by each body part instead of expecting to do the whole, it helped with conceptualizing “switching” as well. Although this guide submission isn’t for switching, the fundamentals behind it can be supplementary for it.

Just like how I mentioned using guided imagery, hypnosis, and other forms to have better inward focus into something else than my body, I was able to get into imaginative senses. Then if I add in the fact that with hours upon hours I put in with image streaming, which I mentioned in a narration submission I’m still taking time to revise, possession is practically a no-brainer for me.

And the best part is that the more I implement those modes of developing cognition and such, it will only get easier. So for someone to think this is a “half” possession guide should start making a format of what would constitute as a “full” possession guide.

And if I recall correctly, I remember Sands making a compendium in relation to Possession on the tulpanetwork site. So maybe Sands can submit that compendium over here, and GAT can do a comparative analysis on the efficacy behind the concepts both guide submissions have.

And maybe then there may be a consensus for others to use both guide submissions as a supplementary means for getting possession down better. But if you keep saying the guide is only “half” of what possession may be, then I heavily suggest you submit that compendium of yours (if you still have it Sands):

Because possession is obviously utilizing symbolism like other tulpa-related activities, practicing, using your head and not putting yourself in danger (i.e. a busy street when the host and tulpa have no proficiency in possession), and going through the motions over and over until they make a breakthrough.

The idea behind the guide submission is for people to take the concepts, make it a supplement to developing their own, and practicing. There can’t be an aim for a “full” possession guide since that will only cover what the guide maker thinks is full. And considering things are subjective here, it would be highly improbable to satisfy what everyone thinks is a “full” possession guide.

Even if testimonials and such aren’t brimming with validity, rigorous peer-reviewed and experimented scientific processes, and deductive reasoning backed up to them, those testimonials are part of what the GAT system promotes in guide submissions like this to accumulate them to show that the concepts can easily be executed into subjective matters.
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#79
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I have no idea what you're going on here about Linkzelda.

"Also there is no magical "the subconscious" that is a separate entity that decides whether you can let go or not."

Was a response to

Quote:It's a switch that some people don't know how to flip, it's subconscious and sometimes the sub can be stubborn, and some people just don't have the patience to work with that.

A part of his response to mine, and the "I am talking of the people who tried to guide and reported success. You can't know for sure if they did do it or not, and they might not either seeing that your early advice was rather dangerous" part was a response to

Quote:I promise you that the possession is real, there's nothing fake going on, with this method.

When Koomer thought that I meant his possession wasn't real, when I was talking of the people who responded. So I cleared up what I meant as it wasn't obvious to him. Because the DON'T DOUBT advice was something that might have very well hindered many hosts, especially when this guide doesn't help them with the letting go part, so they could easily think they're doing possession when they hadn't. Now that the part is gone, I believe it will be a bit more helpful but still only describing half of it.

Oh, and "But hey, you're the kind who things that the tupper is so much stronger and can do everything because you are so weak, so I can see why you think this way, not really understanding how much you do to get the possession started. But that's clouded by your own opinions" is a response to him claiming that tuppers do 80% of everything possession related. Which he might think is true because of his weird mindset, but every host who has trouble with letting go will tell you how much that affects their possession process.

And if you read my thing, I already said I can approve of this guide. There's nothing really wrong that would have to be changed. But this is still only a half of a possession guide, so if Koomer really wanted to help both needed parties to achieve possession, this is something he should think of. I can't make him and I won't, but I explained him why. It's up to him.
The THE SUBCONCIOUS ochinchin occultists frt.sys (except Roswell because he doesn't want to be a part of it)
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#80
(01-03-2014, 05:35 PM)Sands Wrote: I have no idea what you're going on here about Linkzelda.

Ask for more clarification, especially since you endorsed that aspects like this in a submission here should be something people should seriously take into consideration.

Sands Wrote:"Also there is no magical "the subconscious" that is a separate entity that decides whether you can let go or not."

Was a response to


Oguig Wrote:A part of his response to mine, and the "I am talking of the people who tried to guide and reported success. You can't know for sure if they did do it or not, and they might not either seeing that your early advice was rather dangerous" part was a response to

Whether it may be implied in the guide, or through posts separate from that, you have a tendency to go around thinking that people seriously subscribe to the subconscious solely being a magical and separate entity.

You were utilizing that in your critique of their guide submission either way (before and after).

So it doesn’t matter what you were responding that disposition of yours to since it’s prevalent in other sections in this forum.


Quote:Because the DON'T DOUBT advice was something……. Now that the part is gone, I believe it will be a bit more helpful but still only describing half of it.

So now that it’s nonexistent and in the past, we can move on. As for your statements on it describing “half,” guess you’ll still stick to that disposition until the very end, so I’m not going to argue with that since I already made statements towards it already.

Quote:Oh, and "But hey, you're the kind who things that the tupper is so much stronger and can do everything because you are so weak, so I can see why you think this way, not really understanding how much you do to get the possession started. But that's clouded by your own opinions"

is a response to him claiming that tuppers do 80% of everything possession related. Which he might think is true because of his weird mindset, but every host who has trouble with letting go will tell you how much that affects their possession process.

Every host that may have trouble? I would love to see those testimonials show up in this thread Sands. I really would like them to do that other than me having to have good faith towards your claim. Also, we’ll wait and see if Oguigi really thinks his mindset is abnormal/weird.

Accumulate those testimonials directly here, otherwise you’re merely creating an imaginative populace on people who “may” have trouble letting go. If those people have trouble, maybe it shows that you could provide your insight that you made in your compendium as well sometime in the future since we're heavily limited on possession guides.

Quote:And if you read my thing, I already said I can approve of this guide. There's nothing really wrong that would have to be changed. But this is still only a half of a possession guide, so if Koomer really wanted to help both needed parties to achieve possession, this is something he should think of. I can't make him and I won't, but I explained him why. It's up to him.

That’s what I’m saying Sands, if you provide your submission in the guide submissions, maybe that can contribute into readers getting the other half that I feel you presented well in that compendium. Readers can combine both your compendium AND Oguigi’s for better comprehension. And I don't mean combine as in literally fusing this thread with your own submission of course.

There wasn’t any attempt to shun down anything if that was the case, Sands. You’re seriously stifling more perspective for others to build on if you don’t get that submission of yours in the guide submissions honestly. Of course, that's just a minor favoritism at my end, but it doesn't mean it's not something that could be useful for others here.
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