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[Possession] The muscle memory
HumbleGlow Offline
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Default  The muscle memory

If you don't know yet, possession means that a tulpa controls the host's physical body.

Why/When should we start to work on possession?

If you've decided already that you want to do possession, you can skip over this section.

In early 2012, possession was a hypothesis. Some crazy people thought that it might be possible for a tulpa to control their host's physical body. Now, about a year later, I find myself recommending training possession to vocal tulpa who can converse with their host (at least in mindvoice). Some people even do possession before vocality, but I recommend that you have a stable mode of communication with your tulpa before you start on possession.

But why should one do possession?

  1. If there's still any doubt in you whether your tulpa is real, get him/her/it to move your finger, and feel the doubt being wiped away in an instant.
  2. Possession training is a great bonding opportunity for both the host and the tulpa. And it's very rewarding especially for those hosts with weak visualization, who have trouble working on their tulpa in the wonderland (like me in the beginning).
  3. Possession is one of two ways for a tulpa to interact with the physical world (the other being imposition), and in fact the only way for a tulpa to truly interact with other people in the physical world.
  4. Especially when compared to imposition, possession can be achieved ridiculously fast. For us, it was five days from zero to full-body possession.
  5. The tulpa grows on the experience, both in mental strength (e.g. thought autonomy and parallel processing) and terms of maturity (because with great power comes great responsibility).
  6. Possession is safer than most people think. Of course, it requires some trust in the tulpa, but especially in the beginning, the host can break the possession easily if he's not comfortable with what the tulpa does. Also, the subconscious has separate protection so the tulpa cannot hurt the body purposefully.
The guide

This guide is based on the guide by Oguigi and Koomer. It's what I currently consider to be the standard method for possession. Go read that if you haven't yet. I'm waiting here.

Now there is one thing that keeps confusing people, and I hope to clear this up and show you how to incorporate this knowledge into the method. It's already hinted at in Oguigi/Koomer's guide, but now, I'm gonna spoon-feed it to you because it's really a key aspect of possession.

When a host and tulpa start working on possession, sooner rather than later, they'll get to the point where the tulpa is able to take control of some bodypart (a hand, or an arm, or a leg) and move it. But the movement is very slow: Lifting the arm from a table will take minutes, up to even half an hour. And the movement is twitchy: Instead of gaining a steady momentum, the arm stops after a few millimeters, then, after some time, twitches to the next intermediate position a few millimeters farther, and so forth. The tulpa will furthermore find that this type of movement is very mentally exhausting for them.

So these people ask for advice from senior hosts, and hear that after some time, all of a sudden, the movements will become fluid.

Magic? Science!

What happens here? The slow, twitchy, uncoordinated movements are your tulpa playing QWOP with your body. (If you don't know that game, go play it now. I'll wait here.)

Not knowing any better, the tulpa tries to control every muscle individually. But that's not how one controls a human body (or any body, for that matter). When you walk around, you don't think about how to bend each joint at which time. You just set the direction, and find yourself walking shortly thereafter.

The mapping of intent to actual muscle movement is stored in your body's muscle memory. You might think that your tulpa might need to work on his/her own muscle memory to use your body effortlessly. But take another look at the first sentence in this paragraph. I did not say "your muscle memory". I said "the body's muscle memory".

The muscle memory is something that is separate from your own memory. It is not required to have granted the tulpa access to your memory for them to use your body's muscle memory. Or vice versa; in fact, I found that you will not need to give permission to use the body's muscle memory, since it's not distinctly your muscle memory, but the body's.

So how does the tulpa gain access to the body's muscle memory? This part is something that the tulpa really needs to figure out for himself/herself. A pretty reliable method is to have the tulpa observe the host throughout the day while he moves the body without paying any special attention to it (that is: through use of muscle memory). This probably requires sensory sharing (which means that the tulpa is use the host's physical senses), but then again, possession without sensory sharing is pretty pointless anyway.

Through this method, Philomena figured out my muscle memory within two days of observing me and reflecting on it. Overall, it took us five days to get from the decision to start with possession training to the first stable full-body possession.

Another thing worth noting is that the tulpa's body has its own sort of muscle memory. Especially for non-humanoid tulpas, it can be helpful to explicitly leave this muscle memory behind you when you possess your host's human body. (Fun fact: In a certain way, this also works the other way around. In my wonderland, I sometimes transform into a pony form, similar to my tulpas' forms. When I do so, I'm immediately able to move naturally because I can use the muscle memory built by my tulpas for their forms.)

Safety notices (please read completely)

Once the tulpa has the host body's muscle memory, and the host has trained to let go of his body, you can achieve very much possession very fast. I don't want to diminish your enthuiasm in any way. But please be cautious at first. Even with the muscle memory, the tulpa has to get used to controlling a physical body, doing things that it did not ever think about before, like blinking the eyes. Or breathing.

No, not being able to breathe is not what I'm warning you about. At this point, the possession will be so weak that the host will be able to break it effortlessly. So tulpas, don't be scared that you'll suffocate: Your host can free you any time, and restart breathing. Also, the muscle memory is especially strong in the lungs, so it will be easy for the tulpa to get the breathing going.

What I'm warning about: When possessing the full body for the first time, the tulpa will be so occupied with controlling every aspect of the it that she might honestly forget about anything else, like traffic on the street. This has actually happened to us. Luckily, I was watching out, and could stop Phi before she stepped on the street without looking. This is the host's duty during possession (until the tulpa grows comfortable with it).

With that in mind, happy possessing everyone!

Q&A

Send in your questions for this section!

Why is it difficult (as in: exhausting) for the tulpa to move muscles without using the muscle memory?

When you use the muscle memory, you're ordering the subconscious to move the muscles and joints into certain positions. For example, when you rest your hand on the desk, you tell your subconscious that, it uses the muscle memory to calculate which muscles need to be contracted how far, and then applies these positions and keeps them stable.

Now, your tulpa wants to move a finger without using the muscle memory. They will eventually find out which muscle to contract or relax, and the finger will start to move. But now, you have two opposing forces: the tulpa moving the muscle in one direction, and the subconscious trying to keep the muscle in the once-assigned position. One host reported that, at this point, it felt like his finger was manipulated by a puppet string. That's just how the tulpa's effort feels to the subconscious.

So the idea of the guide is essentially to set up the tulpa as an additional source of commands to the part of the subconscious that controls the muscle memory.

After my tulpa moved some bodypart without me looking at it, it felt like it was in a different position than it actually was. WTF?

This is just what I described in the previous answer: The tulpa works against the subconscious rather than with it, so the movement breaks the subconscious' sense of limb position. (Yes, that's a sense, too. The widely-quoted "five senses" are quite an understatement.)

Our possession guide
(This post was last modified: 06-01-2013, 09:20 PM by HumbleGlow.)
05-29-2013, 10:54 PM
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Xeare Away
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Default  RE: The muscle memory

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(This post was last modified: 08-31-2018, 08:29 AM by Xeare.)
05-30-2013, 12:46 AM
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Chupi Offline
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Default  RE: The muscle memory

Regarding breathing, a tulpa forgetting to breathe should work just like anyone not breathing. If they keep it up long enough, they (and you) will pass out, at which point the body will resume breathing automatically as it does during sleep or when you're otherwise passed out.

TL;DR: Not too much to worry about there even if the host doesn't catch it. Worst case you pass out, fall over and look like an idiot.

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(This post was last modified: 05-30-2013, 03:19 AM by Chupi.)
05-30-2013, 03:18 AM
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Default  RE: The muscle memory

Well said. Maia and I have had experiences like this with possession, largely with her handwriting appearing almost identical to mine when she is possessing me, and also why she's right-handed as well when possessing. I was thinking that "borrowing" muscle memory could easily explain it, and it seems that we are not the only ones.

As for breathing, I'm pretty sure a certain part of your brain will keep that going regardless of who's controlling what.
05-30-2013, 03:23 AM
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jean-luc Offline
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RE: The muscle memory

Ya, it's really quite difficult to stop breathing(for long enough to cause problems), almost as difficult as stopping your own heart (is that even possible?)

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05-30-2013, 03:46 AM
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HumbleGlow Offline
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Default  RE: The muscle memory

(05-30-2013, 12:46 AM)Xeare Wrote: Currently, my issue isn't that we aren't getting movement, it's that we're getting very, very basic movement. If Kaiyorei possesses my arm, she can move it about a foot within a second or two, but it's as if it were following a path, and she cannot manipulate my hands while doing it. It's not that we're having issues with the strength of possession, its that we're having issues with the speed and dexterity of possession. We haven't worked on it nearly as much as other things, but still. Is it just something that comes with practice, or is there something that I should do to try and make more progress.

This sounds like the tulpa learns to move your body in a way similar to how you, as a child, learned the same. But the point that I'm trying to make is that you should not be working on learning how to move the body. You should be working on learning how to use the muscle memory that is already there.

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05-30-2013, 04:51 PM
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Couguhl Offline
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Default  RE: The muscle memory

(05-29-2013, 10:54 PM)HumbleGlow Wrote: This is just what I described in the previous answer: The tulpa works against the subconscious rather than with it, so the movement breaks the subconscious' sense of limb position. (Yes, that's a sense, too. The widely-quoted "five senses" are quite an understatement.)

I believe that is proprioception.
http://www.gpdawson.com/blog/2011/03/04/...ally-have/
I hope I'm not too off-topic.

(05-30-2013, 03:46 AM)jean-luc Wrote: Ya, it's really quite difficult to stop breathing(for long enough to cause problems), almost as difficult as stopping your own heart (is that even possible?)

Not quite.
Breathing is special in that it is both voluntary and involuntary, but things like the heartbeat and digestion are simply involuntary because its components are not composed of skeletal muscle.

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(This post was last modified: 06-02-2013, 03:58 AM by Couguhl.)
06-02-2013, 03:56 AM
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Nesq300 Offline
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RE: The muscle memory

I think I'm having problems with "letting go"... I can relax completely every muscle in my body but my tulpa still has problems with movement, especially when trying to move bigger body parts like the legs or the torso. I think there is something we're missing.

Any advice on this?

...Yay
06-10-2013, 12:40 AM
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HumbleGlow Offline
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Default  RE: The muscle memory

(06-10-2013, 12:40 AM)Nesq300 Wrote: I think I'm having problems with "letting go"... I can relax completely every muscle in my body but my tulpa still has problems with movement, especially when trying to move bigger body parts like the legs or the torso. I think there is something we're missing.

I'm not completely sure, but this sounds like you're focusing on relaxing the muscles. That's a form of control, too. Try rather to get into a state where you don't care about the state of your body in any way.

Our possession guide
06-10-2013, 07:12 PM
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RE: The muscle memory

Well, your use of subconscious here is just idiotic. There's no magical mystical "the subconscious" entity that decides everything like how you've written seems to imply. That's just forcing down stupid pseudoscience down everyone's throats, could even be seen as just symbolism which again, might work because you're expecting this magical "subconscious" to do something for you. But the word subconscious as a whole has become a word that means nothing and basically some New Age bullshit. I heavily disapprove using this word in a guide to describe anything.

And the guide part? Not really a guide. You explain some things and talk about things I agree with... Though at the start where you have bolded ridiculously fast, I'd suggest bolding the entire can be achieved ridiculously fast. It makes a huge difference.

Anyways. You talk about good things and this is helpful and explain a theory I might as well agree with. And you bring up some excellent things for others to remember. However, the possession guide you have linked to is something that not even the entire GAT has appoved of, so there's always that and it might affect this thread in a negative way. And no matter how well written this is, it's not a guide. It's something I might even put in resources, but I'm not sure if I'd make such a big leap yet. Though if the rest of the team agrees with that, maybe I'd be fine with putting it there too.

But as for now, I'd move this to tips and tricks. It's a pretty close call. In a way this guide is a mess. Some of it feels like it would fit in general discussion better (theories, experiences etc.), but some of it has actual tips which would be good for the rest to read. I'm pretty confused as to what to do with this, but I'll go with tips and tricks for now. Whatever the majority of GAT decides though, I'm thinking I'll be fine with it. As long as they don't try putting this in guides, because I don't think this is a guide like that.

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12-23-2013, 03:38 PM
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