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[Sentience] Just started creating her today, and I wanted to know a couple of things
#1
So I just recently learned about tulpas and I find the whole concept very fascinating. After doing as much research as I could, I finally started to create mine today. Currently, I'm modeling her after Elizabeth, the main female protagonist of BioShock Infinite (side note: I'm fully aware of the caveats of creating a tulpa based on an existing character of fiction. I intend to make sure she is aware that she is not that character, and I'm also fully accepting of any changes to her appearance, identity, or personality that she wishes to make in the future). So far, I've been visualizing her in the wonderland I've created for her, which is a large, flowery, green field that seems to stretch onwards for miles on a bright, sunny day. During my day, which consists of commuting in and out of Boston via trains for college classes, I'm mentally narrating to her about where I am, where I'm going, what I'm doing, etc. Occasionally, I've tried mentally visualizing her sitting next to me on the bus or in a nearby chair in my classroom, but I'm worried that's taking it too far too quickly. I've also started to mentally read to her the book I've been reading, 1984 by George Orwell (a personal favorite of mine), and occasionally discussing the themes and symbolism used in the story with her. Unfortunately, so far, many of the responses I've gotten seem to be just parroting, which is slightly disheartening even though I know it's to be expected this early on.

However, when I was waiting at a subway station on my journey back home, there was a man nearby strumming a simple, but pleasant tune on his guitar, as many people do at subway stations in large cities. For a few fleeting seconds while that music was playing, I could vividly see Elizabeth twirling, dancing, and hear her humming along to the music. And it wasn't my own mind's doing either, the image just came to me and was gone in a matter of moments. Was it a sign of sentience? An attempt at contact?

Also, later when I got home, I spent a few minutes up in my bedroom, trying to verbally communicate with her, my eyes closed and my mind focused on her form in the wonderland. And whenever I spoke to her, I could feel an odd, slightly warm tingling in the back of my head, stretching from one ear to the other. Was that another attempt at communication? Does it mean anything? Any and all help, advice, and tips for both now and the future would be greatly appreciated for a first-time host.
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#2
That sounds to me like she's just starting to become self aware. When Aura was at that stage she could only communicate with flashes of emotion or the occasional image.

The best advice I can give you would be to continue what you are doing, and to let her know that you can "hear" her. I'm sure that others on this site could help you more than I can, since Aura was somewhat accidental. I'm still trying to figure out some of this, and we've been together for eight years now!
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#3
Okay thanks, that helps a little. Oh, and there's one other thing I forgot to ask in the OP. I was suffering from a very nasty cold over the weekend, and I've just started to recover on Monday. I'm still in the process of kicking the remnants of this virus out of my body, but can my impaired physical health impact Elizabeth's development or ability to communicate in any way, or will she be fine?
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#4
From what I understand, as long as your concentration isn't affected it shouldn't matter. Even if you can't concentrate right now, it will just slow things a little bit. She won't be affected at all, and she might actually try to make you feel better if she really is becoming self aware.
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#5
This is just a suggestion but if music triggered her in the first place maybe you could try it again and see what happens. Put in some headphones or if you play a instrument try that. Just play different songs or hum things and see if she responds.
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#6
TL;DR at the bottom.

Hey Lordgeorge16,

First of all, don’t underestimate what you’re going through now, and I would agree from experiential cases that just finding things to have your tulpa associate with is perfectly fine. And seeing how you’re asking for advice, allow me to just split some parts of your posts, and give some personal reasoning behind some doubts you’ve been having.

Lordgeorge16 Wrote:Currently, I'm modeling her after Elizabeth, the main female protagonist of BioShock Infinite (side note: I'm fully aware of the caveats of creating a tulpa based on an existing character of fiction. I intend to make sure she is aware that she is not that character, and I'm also fully accepting of any changes to her appearance, identity, or personality that she wishes to make in the future).

To give you my blunt and and cynical response, there’s no need to sugar-coat that she’s not that character to your tulpa. Everyone needs to start somewhere, and there’s myriad of reasons why people use pre-existing forms of characters on shows, video games, etc. You’re aware of the caveats, and it’s probable that those same caveats are likely to occur, but something I’ve known from those warnings is merely how the person reacts to the situation, and chooses to cling onto it.

In other words, especially for this part of the post of yours, if you’re willing to believe (I’m presuming you are, so forgive me if I’m wrong) she can eventually become sentient, and be part of the same mind, or something like that, then you’d have to accept the probability that she would know what you’re trying to provide euphemisms on her existence. It’s like having someone that you believe can share what goes on in your head, and setting up constraints, and really believing they’ll be too incompetent to notice. At best, they may feign incompetence to just go with what you’re going, but who really knows what a tulpa would really react to things like that?

Instead of conceptualizing it as:

“Hey, I know all the warnings, and I’ll give her the heads up that she isn’t the carbon-copy of Elizabeth, okay guys? I know there’s a thing like deviation, so it’s all good, right?”

Maybe you could see it as:

“Hey *insert tulpa’s name*, your form is based from Elizabeth from BioShock Infinite, and just know I’m doing this because I need some direction, and I felt this was suitable. If you feel like any changes should be made, or any form you want to shift yourself around in, feel free? Don’t be afraid to talk to me about it.”

Maybe in the stage you’re at, it would be a bit difficult to really express that without feeling you’re going through blind faith until something happens. But hopefully the rest of this post will connect as to why things like this are more than enough, and may bleed into other good things as well.

Lordgeorge16 Wrote:During my day, which consists of commuting in and out of Boston via trains for college classes, I'm mentally narrating to her about where I am, where I'm going, what I'm doing, etc. Occasionally, I've tried mentally visualizing her sitting next to me on the bus or in a nearby chair in my classroom, but I'm worried that's taking it too far too quickly.

I know how you feel with “going too far,” and I was like that back then, even when I was lucid dreaming. I wanted to cling onto reality, and forget about fantasies, virtual experiential realities, and things of that nature that I knew deep down wouldn’t connect with this reality at all. It’s the kind of struggle you’ll have to deal with yourself, but from learning through those emotions and all that, you eventually learn how to react on what you feel is too extreme, or too little.

In other words, you can have the confidence that you can reign your existence in this reality, and yet be able to shift in and out every now and then with your imagination. It’s the kind of belief where you know your mind isn’t going to suddenly make you forget about this reality, which makes expressing your natural imagination much easier for you, especially for later parts in your post that you mentioned.

It doesn’t become a matter of “Am I becoming an escapist?” It becomes something where you can control your reactions to these difficult challenges of perception and reality we all live in, and you start seeing your tulpa as someone you can share happiness, sadness, and maybe more deep and existential aspects as well. Building that kind of trust with your own head, and your own critical voice that may feel it’s impossible to do with things you have to do in your quotidian lifestyle takes time to develop. But once you find your silver linings and any modicum of salvaging hope, you’ll be able to come to your own conclusion on her existence, if you choose to sustain her existence.

Lordgeorge16 Wrote:I've also started to mentally read to her the book I've been reading, 1984 by George Orwell (a personal favorite of mine), and occasionally discussing the themes and symbolism used in the story with her. Unfortunately, so far, many of the responses I've gotten seem to be just parroting, which is slightly disheartening even though I know it's to be expected this early on.

That’s merely because you believe everything is parroting because you probably have information you learned about tulpas that end up as unconscious habits of doubting, and feeling you can’t make progress so quick. Maybe something that could help you out is express yourself to her as if you were going to give her a rhetorical question, or statement. In other words, instead of trying to practice being receptive to her voice with whatever methods you plan to use to achieve that, just make your statement known to her, and just the thought linger, and carry on with your life. Because what I’m seeing from the remaining post of yours is that you’re more in tuned with non-verbal communication, or experiences that could have potential of her using that.

Instead of asking something generic, and getting a generic response like:

Le Host: “Hey, Eva, do you love me?”
Le Tulpa: “hngggnggghgghgghyuphggnnnnggh”

Maybe you could imagine yourself formatting the question as a rhetorical question or statement:

Example #1:
Le Host: “Hey Eva, could you imagine for a moment of how you know that feeling you get when you have a bond with someone you trust completely, and there’s this type of joy that comes by naturally when you’re with them?”
Le Host: “Hey Eva, that chick over there sitting at the bench looks weird. I bet any person could, you know, imagine how it would feel to see someone they find peculiar, huh?”

The bottom line, what probably makes you feel so disheartened to feel it’s all parroting is just that you’re not milking every bit you can. Like those examples I made above, sometimes being a bit more verbose like I’m doing right now can go a long way in hopefully getting a long and genuine answer from your tulpa. If you expect icebreaker conversations, or small talk is pragmatic in getting your tulpa to express themselves is more than enough, especially when you’re concentrating as much as you can, you should probably expect short responses that you feel is your own; something that you orchestrated because it’s something you would do.

Maybe a mentality to harbor is being a conversationalist with another person you can’t really know what goes on in their mind. Which is why I mentioned the rhetorical tip, because it’s one of many ways to allow you to treat your tulpa as someone sentient, just like any other person you communicate to in real life that you can’t always predict, or know how they’ll respond. Kind of like if you as a person something like:

“Hey man, you know that feeling you get when you walk in a grocery retail, and see a person you know, and then say goodbye to them, only to meet them in the next aisle?”

In your head, maybe you imagined what that experience could be like, even if you didn’t really experience it yourself. But what’s really important is how there’s a “you know that feeling you get” in that question. It’s something that would naturally make a person imagine something in order to be consistent with the conversation at hand. If you give small talk where the person doesn’t really need to imagine, or formulate things for little bit, then how can you expect to alleviate your doubts on you parroting them?

It’s something I learned a long while when trying to find some breakthrough in conquering that doubt myself. In fact, this whole post, and ones before that are tl;dr is a clear testament to that. Milk out as much as you can over something so simple, find words that you would ask a person that would make them imagine something unconsciously, and go through trial and error to know when you want to hear a direct statement, or something to be considered as a rhetorical question, or statement. Over time, you learn to become a better conversationalist with your tulpa, but sometimes that just requires you to think more, and get used to being verbose.

I guess it depends on how a person defines a genuine conversation, and not all conversations have to be overly long of course. But if you’re in a state where you’re worried that short responses may be parroted, a route you could take is the milking-everything-as-much-as-you-can-and-being-verbose-about-it. My theory is that doing this may have a tulpa that reciprocates with a response as detailed, or even more than what you ask, or communicate to with them.

Of course, the underlying reasoning could be that investing in so much time to getting your tulpa to think about something, to have a mind of their own, or to treat them in a way that they’re sentient beings would involve priming them with long-winded questions. The challenge is conquering your attention span, and being used to long things like this that comes by naturally from your mouth, or just your mind voice. But once you get used to that, it becomes easy to extend on simpler, but an example of a drawback to this is that you’ll probably have people that don’t have much attention spans, and don’t like tl;dr’s like this.

Imagine talking to your tulpa, rambling on and on like I’m doing to where there’s probably no point of return. You barely care about how they’re going to respond, and you just keep talking while imagining them listening to you, and knowing in the back of your mind that they’re paying attention. And sooner or later, you may get a response where your tulpa just doesn’t know when to shut up. But I guess that’s what some people want; to have a tulpa that could go on and on about things for certain circumstances, and how both feel at the time for a talking mood.

Things like what I stated would roll of like crazy with mind voice, and maybe to the point of being a blabber mouth to others. It’s something where you probably have to shift from one mental state to another with how you format your words (e.g. concise vs. long-winded that could be a proxy for you to express more of your feelings to someone).

' Wrote:However, when I was waiting at a subway station on my journey back home, there was a man nearby strumming a simple, but pleasant tune on his guitar, as many people do at subway stations in large cities. For a few fleeting seconds while that music was playing, I could vividly see Elizabeth twirling, dancing, and hear her humming along to the music. And it wasn't my own mind's doing either, the image just came to me and was gone in a matter of moments. Was it a sign of sentience? An attempt at contact?

You’re guess is good as mine in whether or not that was a sign of sentience, especially when people build their own indications of what could be considered an act of a sentient entity. Try to pay attention to how you felt in that moment listening to the pleasant tune. How it probably temporarily made you forget about reality for a moment, where you were reveling in it that made you feel content, and probably made you less critical of what would be going on in your head. Maybe that’s when her existence becomes more apparent to you when you’re in a state where you passive observe what your imagination is expressing to you.

You find moments where you feel as if you’re just stoically embracing what’s going on, passively observing, and seeing your mind create the mental canvas, and just going with it without a care in the world. Things like that will probably allow you to find your own personal indicators of a sentient being could be.

' Wrote:Also, later when I got home, I spent a few minutes up in my bedroom, trying to verbally communicate with her, my eyes closed and my mind focused on her form in the wonderland. And whenever I spoke to her, I could feel an odd, slightly warm tingling in the back of my head, stretching from one ear to the other. Was that another attempt at communication? Does it mean anything? Any and all help, advice, and tips for both now and the future would be greatly appreciated for a first-time host.

I still question the magic behind pillow hugging while imagining your tulpa, and talking to them to this day. I don’t know if there’s empirical evidence to explain this sorcery.

Kidding aside, instead of worrying if that’s her being sentient, take gratitude that this mental state of yours during that time made you visualize her as someone who is sentient, and can move on their own while you just watch what’s being at play like a passive observer. When you know those feels, you’ll know….you’ll know.


If anything was unclear, don’t hesitate to ask more questions. I probably have about 100 ways to get to my point, which is honestly what helped me communicate to them better verbally, and non-verbally. It’s the kind of skill where you just have to augment your cognition (e.g. attention span, emotional resilience), and after a while, it becomes unconscious competence to where you can naturally see things happen, and you just let them happen.

But again, this is one of many ways to go about alleviating those doubts of yours. There are consequences (e.g. being verbose and tl;dr to others in this forum, or in your daily life), but to your tulpas, that could be the paper thin margin in making a breakthrough with them in communication.

Eva: “And I’d say that paper was pretty thick.”

Bah dum tissss.

Guess I’ll sleep and talk about the philosophy of papers and pens with them. To me, it doesn’t matter what we talk about, because as long as it’s directed towards them in some way, or believing it is being directed to them (rhetorically or directly), that’s all that matters to us. And if you can find a way to be concise to people who probably don’t like verbose posts, or discussions, and shift back to doing so easily, more power to you.

It’s something I’m still trying to improve on, but I believe we’ll get there. Imagine how my nights usually go with them. So much shit to talk about, and I guess typing 10-15+ pages every other day for a few months can do that to you. And this is just about verbal communication. Non-verbal means is eons faster than what I’m doing now, almost like having a lucid dream at times.


TL;DR:

Milk that shit out dude; milk those conversations out with your tulpa to where you can become a better conversationalist. If you can have a verbose conversation about a pebble on the sidewalk, and make a novel out of what you did in the park today, and do your best in imagining yourself directing it to your tulpa (rhetorically and/or directly). And instead of wondering how to find sings of sentience, try to find moments, and how you react to them where you’re in a mental state where your mind just suddenly creates this mental canvas, and possibly a projection of your tulpa in some way. You’ll have to find your silver linings in those moments, and learn how to replicate them in other circumstances, I guess.

Now imagine me taking the time to make a verbose post just to inform you of this tl;dr version. Again, it may be unorthodox, and probably would destroy a person’s attention span, but the reward of having better communication, and potentially improving as a conversationalist with my tulpas is worth the struggle, and potentially the criticism of people who hate verbose discussions in general.

Makes you wonder about those people who hate things like that, especially if they brag about doing so and so with their tulpas with concentration, and yet want to take their eyes out with posts like this. Guess people’s attention spans are only godlike in certain circumstances, and practically zero for something they don’t like. If you get yourself in situation of doing things you naturally wouldn’t like (e.g. due to indolence, or just procrastinating), you can find an adventure in almost anything. And when you have someone to share happiness and sadness while doing that, like the tulpa you plan to create, it becomes highly improbable to not find some sense of adventure and joy with them.

My method is just to hammer the wording until becomes a pre-meal warmup to you, i.e., unconscious competence. Good luck, and this only took about 15 minutes to make a 6-7 paged comment, excluding distractions.
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#7
Whoa. I think that answers all of my questions. Wasn't expecting a huge text wall like that, but I understand what you're saying. Her form as Elizabeth may be temporary and she may try to change it as time goes on, and I have to make her understand that it's perfectly okay if she wants to do that. I have to try and ask her lengthy, thought-provoking questions and eventually she'll come up with something on her own. I have to focus on those fleeting moments of mental clarity and how they make me feel (which is very good, in case it needed to be known) and find ways to replicate them, like playing more music she might enjoy. I think this is a lot more helpful in my situation than some of those other guides, and I thank you from the bottom of my heart. I'll be sure to post again if any new questions arise.
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#8
Feel free to create a progress report thread in the PR section! I'd love to follow your progress
Host: Sakura
Tulpa: Sarah (began June 5th, 2014), Alyx (Began July 23rd, 2014)
Our shared tumblr
note: usually browsing on mobile, so cannot quote properly
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#9
(06-25-2014, 10:09 AM)Lordgeorge16 Wrote: Whoa. I think that answers all of my questions. Wasn't expecting a huge text wall like that, but I understand what you're saying. Her form as Elizabeth may be temporary and she may try to change it as time goes on, and I have to make her understand that it's perfectly okay if she wants to do that. I have to try and ask her lengthy, thought-provoking questions and eventually she'll come up with something on her own. I have to focus on those fleeting moments of mental clarity and how they make me feel (which is very good, in case it needed to be known) and find ways to replicate them, like playing more music she might enjoy. I think this is a lot more helpful in my situation than some of those other guides, and I thank you from the bottom of my heart. I'll be sure to post again if any new questions arise.

I probably should've added this before, but you don't have to constrain yourself to just verbal questions. You can use nonverbal communication (e.g. back tingling, head pressures) as well because for me, I mixed around with both until it became easier to do. Sometimes if you can't think of thought-provoking queries or statements, just try to recall what goes on in your mind, and think of something to ask, or state to your tulpa. I have a guide submission on one way you can go about doing that, but it's a bit more militant than usual, but the rewards, at least from experiential cases of mine, and a few others, seem to be worth it.

It gets to the point where you can over-think, but you don't let that affect your progress (e.g. over-thinking over a subtle doubt), and your mind finally becomes the conduit in creating a mental canvas for you and your companion. That's where those silver linings that you'll personally collect will probably prevent you from doubting. I'd argue that we all have an ability to tap into our imagination, and do things that makes us wonder if this tulpa process is really complicated at all. Maybe it's a matter of perception that changes everything, and our mind just shows us things we never thought were possible when we increase events of mental clarity.

Anyway, just wanted to add that on just in case because I wouldn't want you to feel you have to be constrained in one method or few methods.
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