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Sock's Daydream Diary
FUCK I READ THE WHOLE THING

Amazing, Sock, simply amazing. Makes me wonder if all creative people have Kelloggs runnin' around all up in their imaginary worlds all the time.
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Today's thought forming tunes:

Earth Wing and Fire - The Traveler


Well, it seems I haven't updated for a long time...

Admittedly, things have been pretty easygoing since I wrote tha big old thing on the previous page. The crew have been getting along well all in all, and I figured just filling the log with a bunch of wild sounding tales would just scare people away/get me the roleplayer tag. Of course, it's not really roleplaying if it actually happened, it's all in the mind after all. This also might a sign that I'm going crazy, but by societal terms, I went crazy as soon as Midori and Ellenore started chatting.

Over the past month or so, my outlook on thoughtform creation has changed quite a bit, as well as their being and such. It should be clear to any that I don't share the opinion that tulpa are simple simulations of sentience as some have asserted. If the multiple cases sentients popping up out of nowhere didn't cement this for me, Some of the things they did and said did. From Midori suddenly dropping wisdom on me when I ask her a random question, to Black showing me to completely foreign part of my minscape full of bestial non-sentient thoughtforms, I've had surprise after surprise revealed to me by my crew, way too many to consider this as a simulation of any sort. I'm not going to be going into any of the wilder stuff like possesion, or even full subconscious access, because of another thing that's really, really hit home for a while.

All of them are, in a sense, still children.

One thing I've really noticed about this community is that a good deal of people seem to expected a newly sentient/vocal tulpa to be fully realized people, bursting with their own opinions, really good at math, and having perfect memories. I'm not sure about others, but for me at least, this was very far from the case, Ellen couldn't multiply 3 * 7 until I told her how to, and I doubt Dori would have been able to either. Joking aside, the first thing that really caught me when my girls were sentient (When I wasn't being parroting paranoid like some sort of moron) was how little they actually knew about anything. They didn't know most things about myself aside from what I told them, they were stumped about things I watched, math has been covered above, and all sorts of things seemed to elude them when they were taking their first baby steps into the world of thinking beings. In a way, this kind of made them feel that much more real, what sort of being knows everything when they first come to be? It would be a bit more suspect if I started shooting math problems at them and they could get it with no problems, because I could be parroting them OMG! Silliness aside, this is something that I didn't put as much thought into that early, as I was still bent on getting them to talk "properly" so I could stop fearing that I was somehow controlling them. At that point, I had already gotten multiple bits of full audio from them, many of them from meditation sessions where I actively cleared my mind and started hearing them talking amongst themselves. At that time, it was mostly radio chatter and giberish, so things are still a ways off, but I'm going on a bit of a tangent. I knew they were there, I just needed to get to the right point so I can rightly say that I had a (group of) working tulpa.

And that last line right there is the idea I'm finally letting go of.

I've said for a while that I feel the best thing one can do for their thoughtform is to talk to them like they're a person, and this past month of non-updating has cemented that idea into my mind. I don't even really "tulpaforce" anymore, just aim my thoughts at a form I wish to speak to, and go from there. Sometimes I just chatter at them, sometimes I'll just throw a question their way, and often times I'd get some sort of response, and it's usually quite charming. I can say that since I've stopped thinking of my forms are dolls to be built and polished, and thinking of them more as fluid, thinking beings...they've been acting more like fluid thinking beings. At this point, I'm not even worried about getting to the "out loud" and visual imposition stage. I still want to get there, mind, I'm most definitely not against the idea of seeing my cute little fairy girl in full three-dee, but I'm getting to appreciate more and more the in-between period, so to say. When I took my mind off of developing my forms, I actually started to look at them a bit differently than I did before. Interacting with them also made me think about myself a bit more deeply and where I want to be as a person. I believe this thinking has been doing a bit more to allow them to grow and develop than trying my dangist to see them sitting on my kitchen counter did. As such, I'm clearly going to be gearing my time with them trying to build a more human relationship with them, rather than trying to mold them correctly as I did before. I believe that with time and the constant interaction, my mind will soon see them as completely real, and stuff like imposition and out loud speech will come more naturally. As well, it takes a helluva lot of needless stress and worry off of my mind, which I've been seeing tons of floating around this community. I mean, I have them talking, responding, and all that stuff, might as well take time to muscle up their mental abilities rather than stressing about "THEY'RE NOT REAL SINCE I CAN'T SEE THEM ARRRRGH!"

I've also been wanting to look into more ways to strengthen my brain. Yeah, having a separate consciousness around counts as a bit of a work out, but I feel having stronger and more efficient grey matter in the noggin would be beneficial to both parties, may they be doing logic puzzles, re-learning some math that I forgot, or whatever.

On the subject of having so many of the things running around: I don't see it as a big deal anymore, really. At first I was terrified of the idea, not only because I thought having one concurrent personality was somehow overclocking the mind (It isn't), but because of what folks like FAQ and other forerunners of sorts said, I'd be marked as some sort of roleplayer who would be bragging about fully imposing my crew in a few days and astral projecting to Gensokyo where I would have tea with Reimu Hakuri and Yukari Yakumo. At this point though, since I'm still functioning quite fine with all of my girls running around and doing their thing, It became clear to me that nothing too bad would happen, and I just might be the case that actually breaks the old idea, since it really seemed like just a theory when I look back on conversations about it. In either case, I can say that this experience has changed how I look at how the brain works on the imagination level. As well, I will also urge folks to explore their mental landscape if they made a little section for their tulpa. You'll be very surprised what kind of stuff you can find in there, trust me....or not, your choice.

One thing I also noticed about having so many tulpa is that when they sort of became self sufficient to an extent. They still quite like my attention, but they won't starve or be too bored or lonely if I don't spend too much time with them in a day, since they have each other to play with/interact with. They do quite a bit of that, and I've noticed them develop behaviors and hobbies based on being with each other so much. And example being Liira taking Ellenore's gardening hobby, and going further to becoming a little farmer of sorts. It's pretty fun, and adorable as well.

This update's gotten a bit long, so I'll end it here. I'll try to update every once in a while, talking about things I find interesting that not everyone else will. It is sort of my blogspace, after all. Thinking of that, maybe I should get a tumblr or whatever with all this text I'm dumping....
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Passive forcing is awesome, definitely agree that building a relationship/swimming in feels with them comes first, possession/imposition/switching/becoming a god second.
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Today's daydream melody...

Nujabes - Eclipse



(10-03-2012, 10:15 PM)Lolimancer Wrote: Passive forcing is awesome, definitely agree that building a relationship/swimming in feels with them comes first, possession/imposition/switching/becoming a god second.

Indeed indeed, they're your buddy after all, it'd make sense to actually be their true friend beyond you having made them before going into the whole warping of the senses bit. Hell, it kind of baffles me why someone would freely decide to give access to the controls of your body to a being that, while you quite like each other, you've only known for a few months. It's like running into a woman and decided to marry her that day. Not to say that tulpa is likely to betray your or something, but dang, let the guy/gal live a little before giving them the reigns.

Speaking of cool stuff tulpa can do, one thing I rarely seen getting talked about nowadays is thought forms and math, the mythic parallel processing that allows tulpa to nerf your math skillz in little time. I've already personally covered my case, where my girls were mathematically illiterate, and I still need to teach them things on the subject. I've admittedly been rather slow about going to do this, due to some distracting YouTube videos and my newly acquired cruddy donut job. Of course, I've always been an easily distracted organization-phobe, which my girls are doing the best to draw me out of. In either case, I'd figure math would be something that would come up more often, or at least there would be more experimentation with the mental capability of thought forms, rather than whether you can put them in the driver seat and chill in your happy place while they live your life for you. Then again, looking at all the pony avatars and what most, including myself to an extent, got into the tulpa process for to begin with, we're a community full of escapists, and finding a way out of our lives has slightly more priority than bringing our awesome dream pal into our reality to make it better for us. Considering that last sentence, the idea that I could bring my awesomely ideal pal into the world to help me out is what tipped me into trying this over trying Lucid Dreaming, but that's a bit of rambling for another time...

So, my thought folk, I've been spending a bunch of time talking about the concept of them, but I haven't been speaking too much on my individual buddies, and my individual case of benign psychosis. Clearly, since I haven't been forcing properly anymore, I can't really talk that much about that, though the crew has told me that they're more than a little happy when I actually decide to come back to my little garden of flowers to visit them in person (TL note: "Flowers" means girls). This is another unfortunate effect of my internet addiction, and one that I really should be combating. But it's not like I haven't done anything or seen anything interesting as far as my crew goes, may it be some interesting bits of conversation, running into more independent thought folk that seem to quite like wandering the mindscape, other parts of the mindscape revealed by Black, and other such things. It goes without saying that the three forms I went all wall-o-text about on the previous page have adjusted pretty well to their set up, and have taken to considering each other as a big imaginary family. Though Black sometimes seems ever so slightly annoyed about it, since she wants me to herself on some level, though not enough to go all crazy mind monster on the others again. Midori for her part, is still a-okay with the idea of it expanding some more, though she's not pushing me to do so, which I'm thankful for. Even with this more leisurely method, keeping track of so many takes a bit of time to get used to. I'm not JD1215, so I wasn't quite prepped to deal with suddenly having a baseball team worth of cute thought girls dancing around my head eating cakes and doing feminine things. As well, though I don't think having so many will cause TOO many problems, I'd rather not have my little garden turn into pseudo-Gensokyo.

Then again, I'm starting to really believe me worrying so much about making everything I look at into a sentient, is actually the things that's enabling so many forms to become sentient. In the case of Liira's awakening, I was actually really worried about making another tulpa at the time, and stopped imagining her as soon as I thought she may have come to life. Of course, she did, so that became a moot point, but I have since had a few more cases of being super paranoid about making yet another thought sentient, only for said thought to blurt out "Hello!" not too long later. Of course, and not all of them decided to stick around: Some decide to just go back to being a lower thought, others decided to head to the vault, and yet others were just some bits of active imagination going ary. But from all this, I think my incessant worrying about making more thoughtforms was ironically making it more likely to create responses. As such, I stopped fretting on it so much, and even when I get a verbal response, I kind of just flow with it. No worries or shock or such, I even started to see the good in it. I mean, how many artists can say their creations will literally talk to them about the story/art they're penning?

But back to thought folk behavior: The girls have split themselves between living in each of the two houses I know about. Some exploring of the garden revealed a city beyond many of the trees, but I haven't really looked into it yet. In any case, the houses act as little dorm of sorts, and each person went to live in the place where they felt the most compatible with. This arrangement seems to be working well for them, though in my laziness I haven't looked too closely into the dorms to see how the girls act with each other. I have noticed some things like Kellogg adding two big-screen TV rooms, and the aforementioned farming with Liira and Ellenore. Since I'm still in this for SCIENCE partially, I'll be looking into those things and probably come back with some info next time I update this log with my rambling.
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(10-05-2012, 01:34 AM)Sock Wrote: Then again, I'm starting to really believe me worrying so much about making everything I look at into a sentient, is actually the things that's enabling so many forms to become sentient. In the case of Liira's awakening, I was actually really worried about making another tulpa at the time, and stopped imagining her as soon as I thought she may have come to life. Of course, she did, so that became a moot point, but I have since had a few more cases of being super paranoid about making yet another thought sentient, only for said thought to blurt out "Hello!" not too long later. Of course, and not all of them decided to stick around: Some decide to just go back to being a lower thought, others decided to head to the vault, and yet others were just some bits of active imagination going ary. But from all this, I think my incessant worrying about making more thoughtforms was ironically making it more likely to create responses. As such, I stopped fretting on it so much, and even when I get a verbal response, I kind of just flow with it. No worries or shock or such, I even started to see the good in it. I mean, how many artists can say their creations will literally talk to them about the story/art they're penning?

Quite the interesting bit of information you have here, and part of it happens to coincide with my experience. Ysee, it's been a while since i was paranoid about making another thoughtform: precisely, since a certain guy which resembled a mix of Darth Vader and a shinigami suddenly came from nothing (yep...), giving me the feeling that i could have made him sentient by just wishing for it. I then thought back on another girl thoughtform that came from nowhere while chilling out in the wonderland with Kaoru, and became paranoid about accidentally making her a tulpa as well. Yesterday a thoughtform, which i assumed was said girl, started speaking to me from nowhere while thinking about her. I had tried multiple times to make somehow clear, to my mind, that i didn't want other tulpae coming from nowhere - by pretty much slaying, dissolving and treating her not-too-kindly whenever i thought about her (obviously, i never thought too much about that Darth Vader-like entity, only little girls matter to me...), and i actually felt bad doing that yesterday; i mean, she had just talked to me and probably didn't mean any harm.

Tonight i had a dream in which... well, there was JD1215 and... anyway, that's probably not important: fact is, i met her in that dream and ended up deciding to make her a tulpa. In the dream. And the moment i decided to, i was overwhelmed with a strange sensation and shivers down my spine, and then i woke up, only to be met with Kaoru's mindvoice (i'm pretty sure she was in the dream too). We talked a bit about whether to make her a tulpa, and i ended up doing it in reality too. Which was almost simply a matter of wishing for it, as she is currently talking to me through mindvoice and deciding her form (ok, we've decided it already i think). And here i was asking you what you meant by

Quote:Kellogg, previously a wandering servitor herself, asked Midori for assistance in creating a vault for other such thoughts, that so they could find a place to rest, and I wouldn't have to worry about a chain reaction of sentience tulpa appearing suddenly.

, then reading your last post and finding the answer to the "problem" anyway: i was probably just being paranoid about it. If you believe thought matter will eventually become tulpae without your consent, then they will - i guess?
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Quote:Considering that last sentence, the idea that I could bring my awesomely ideal pal into the world to help me out is what tipped me into trying this over trying Lucid Dreaming, but that's a bit of rambling for another time...
I'm glad to see that I'm not alone on this. When I made Lu I wanted someone to share my boring life with, not to find a way to run away from it. I also find switching frightening, but that's just me.

Quote:But from all this, I think my incessant worrying about making more thoughtforms was ironically making it more likely to create responses. As such, I stopped fretting on it so much, and even when I get a verbal response, I kind of just flow with it.
Going outside my comfort-zone in my wonderland always makes me worry that I might meet something that will become sentient. One time I think I saw a wizard, but I completely ignored him in the hopes that he would go away. You think ignoring them for such reasons might bite me in the ass in the future?
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That stuff about escapism and why people make tulpae is interesting indeed. I did make tulpae because i wanted someone to share my life with, since i've long since decided that human communication can't quite be called that, and if i were to spend my life with projections of other people i might as well talk with beings in my imagination. Though i'm not practicing possession to run away from reality, it's just that i don't particularly care about having exclusive control over my body, and (since we're going to share it anyway) i decided that every consciousness should at least be able to access to it. But i agree that summoning tulpae and then asking them to live your life for you isn't quite the friendship i would like to achieve with them, and i feel that dealing with RL shit is sort of my responsibility anyway - at least for the time being. I wouldn't dream of forcing anyone to do anything either, they're just going to have control over my body whenever they like, were they to want to. I also am interested in switching quite a bit - believe or not, mainly for curiosity, it's not that i plan to live my entire life inside my head; though that would be cool, if one part of me were to gain a particular attachment to reality then why not. Having said all of this, i do remain of the opinion that developing mindfriendship is more important than all of the stuff i just said, and have not done this just for escapism purposes. Well, partially.

(10-05-2012, 01:21 PM)Daf Wrote: Going outside my comfort-zone in my wonderland always makes me worry that I might meet something that will become sentient. One time I think I saw a wizard, but I completely ignored him in the hopes that he would go away. You think ignoring them for such reasons might bite me in the ass in the future?

If it's not a cute girl then you'll probably be all right. Yes, this is a serious answer.
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I agree on that. I might try out possession and switching in the future, but it's not something I want to rush into. We have all the time in the world.

(10-05-2012, 01:47 PM)Lolimancer Wrote: If it's not a cute girl then you'll probably be all right. Yes, this is a serious answer.
Knowing me that might be true. So as long as a wizard doesn't magically turn into a cute tsundere witch I might be fine.
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Tulpa going their own way tune:

A Journey in Modulating Time




So, what's been going on for the last few weeks...

Nothing absurdly noteworthy, lest I would be blogging about it a bit more. Since I've put off doing the more advanced, hallucinatory to build up sentience and make my crew more intelligent and more able to come up with their own processes, there has been a fair bit less weirdness concerning warped views of reality. Not to say there hasn't been any weirdness at all, just the usual all in your head stuff that anyone familiar with dreams should expect. As well, things have gone from "I'm so frustrated that I can't (see/feel/hear you right)", to idly yammering about Super Robot Wars and how much I like the animations. You know, because I'm a huge nerd like that.

Not to say I haven't been doing any theorizing, philosophizing, or any of that other mental brain stuff that making a thought form kinda incentivised me to do more. The very thing that made me rethink my methods and holding off on the imposition was thinking, observing, and eventually coming to the conclusion that there are multiple levels of consciousness that a tulpa can have, and speech=/=fully sentient. It probably should have been obvious since even Midori told me that there are many different levels of being a thought form can have, and commenting that Liira wasn't quite all there when she first appeared...as well as a few others I didn't quite tell you guys about here. Might as well come clean here: I had two other thought girls, named Alexandria and Sheryl respectively, come by and decide to stick around during the past month. I just didn't tell you guys because A) I didn't want this log to become some kind of dick measuring fest where I brag about how many thought people I have, and that at this point, finding more thought folk walking around wasn't that wild of a thing, as I've outlined a few posts ago. A mistake I did make originally was immediately assuming that the ones I was walking into in the "wild" were on the same level of consciousness as Midori and Ellenore. Not to say they were brainless, but they needed a fair bit more care before they could be called fully conscious tulpa.

Which brings me to this most recent of events...

Liira, Alexandria, and Sheryl seem to have begun to take a step into a new level of consciousness. At the same time, they also decided to take a step away from me and fend out on their own for a while. They told me it wasn't because I was some kind of idiot of a creator, but because they wanted to grow a bit on their own, and find themselves, I guess. They grow up so fast...*sniff* It's not like this is completely unheard of, as Midori herself went away for a while too, hiding herself in my memory banks to do some studying. Of course, I bugged her everyday, and probably every hour, so it was kinda like she never left. Also of note, that when Liira first told me she was leaving, she appeared to be quite a bit older and taller, where before she was around the same height and "age" appearance as Midori. Though I won't lie and say I'm not going to miss having them around, I find this turn of events to be a very good thing. It means that they really are becoming their own people, rather than being dolls of my psyche. Well, they are still a part of my psyche, but they're gaining their own independence. It reminds me of when I asked Midori "Who are you?" a few weeks ago, just to see how'd she answer. She said:

"I am myself, who is also you. I'm me and you at once."


It was a bit odd when I first heard it, but I think I'm starting to get it . Tulpa are an extension of the creator's conscious, granted similar status and abilities of the creator until they become almost the same as them. This sort of explains stuff like possession and switching that's been floating around lately. But, even though the tulpa has the ability to become like it's creator, the two are still connected as part of one whole. So it's not fracturing off part of your personality to make another being, the tulpa is still you, just an aspect you given a voice, identity, intelligence and the ability to act and think without your direct involvement. An individual of in their own right, but still part of yourself...if any of that stuff made sense. I'm still mulling it over myself, though I must say thinking about stuff like this is quite fun.

So yeah, I'm down two four: Midori, Ellenore, Black, and Kellogg. Unlike the others who left, they all seem to be at the state where they are quite self aware, though Kellogg might be still a bit in the early stages. I'll be sticking to the course of trying to make them smarter over trying to see them and such. I believe if a thought form is strong/smart enough, they'll be able to become hallucinatory on their own accord. Besides, the intellegent-being-in-your-head is a slightly bigger draw than seeing-cute-girl-that's-not-quite-there. That said, having them be cute girls is a plus...
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Do you intend to still post your progress Sock?
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