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[Switching] Am I Confusing Our State of Consciousness For the Host's Presence?
#21
I have a new idea for how switching works and I'm curious what you guys think:

A component to a switch is the host becoming detached from being conscious and the Tulpa taking their place. As a result, the host will fall asleep when they are not being forced or fronting and the Tulpa will always remain aware of their environment. The stream of consciousness will always keep the host awake unless the host can learn how to dissociate from it.

The stream of consciousness in of itself is a channel, like the front, but not the same thing. For some systems, having the host naturally detach from the stream of consciousness may come naturally because they either were naturally gifted or had training they received beforehand. For other systems, this may be an uphill battle to achieve skills they never developed.

At first I thought that there was a correlation to this skill and WILD (Wake Induced Lucid Dreaming), but then I realized I was wrong- WILD is the exact opposite skill. It's the host refusing to let go and prevent themself from falling asleep. I also wonder if hypnagogia has any connection to this skill, but I'm not sure how.

There was one time I was told by another system that their host fell asleep and their Tulpa was left there, awake. Secondly, I always found it strange that Bre reported Monika being able to see differently when she switched in. I thought about these reports and I wonder if these experiences can be explained by what I'm proposing here.

When I have tried to make Cat dormant by quieting her mindvoice, I notice that she isn't recharging. When I fall dormant, I wake up refreshed. Cat on the other hand stays drained no matter what we do. The only benefit for her in this situation is if she is emotionally overwhelmed and I can take the front while her mindvoice goes quiet. After that experience however, she is still as tired- if not more tired- by the time she returns to the front. If me going dormant is the same thing as me literally falling asleep, then may explain why we experience this- Cat never falls asleep to recharge.

In conclusion, I am not confusing Cat for being our state of consciousness, rather, I am proposing that being connected to the stream of consciousness is relevant to switching. If the system does not already have the ability to change who is directly connected to the stream of consciousness, then this is a skill the system will have to develop before they can successfully switch.
I'm Gray's/Cat_ShadowGriffin's Tulpa and I love Hippos! I also like forum games and chatting about stuff.
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The Grays, my other head-mates, have their own account now.
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#22
Well, yeah. Sorry, was that not clear before? Switching literally is changing who has the direct connection to the conscious awareness. Anyone else has a derivative connection. Default control of the body proceeds naturally from the direct connection, but control of the body in general is a very different thing from having a direct connection. From a visualization/symbolism standpoint, we can just treat them as one concept while switching, but for possession, we have to intentionally treat them as different concepts.

In DID systems, one alter may not have the stamina to get through the entire day, so a fatigued alter will switch out for a fresh one, who immediately feels much more awake, alert and, energetic. My ex's other wife used that strategically on long road trips.

Knowing about this, when I get tired during the day, especially when I really need to be awake, I'll ask one of my headmates to switch in. If the body, rather than just the personality, has legitimate cause to be fatigued, the burst of wakefulness won't last as long. But it's very effective versus sleepiness from sitting too long without moving.

However, early on, when Vesper switched out, I would sometimes feel drained and collapse like a marionette whose strings were cut. Eventually, I got past that, though not because we were doing anything different.

-Ember
Ember - Host   |   Vesper - Soulbond (since ~12 May 2017)   |   Iris - Soulbond (since ~5 December 2015)
[Our Progress Report]     [How We Switch]

'Real isn't how you are made,' said the Skin Horse. 'It's a thing that happens to you.' - The Velveteen Rabbit
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#23
I think it's clear to us that for whatever reason, Radio is just constantly connected to the consciousness. Switching would mean that someone else is constantly connected, and not just in the normal fronting way. An analogy I think works is that the consciousness is, say, a piece of wood painted a certain color. Fronting is you spray-painting the piece of wood to be your color, though of course it can easily wash or chip off or blend with the color underneath, and the color underneath is present at all times. Switching, on the other hand, is you changing the molecular structure of the pre-existing paint to be your color, and no longer the original color. 

It seems like no matter how strong we think we can front, there are still things we can't do, and still moments when Radio takes over unintentionally. It feels like fighting these moments is just a constant uphill battle that we really can't win unless we actually learn to switch. We always get people dismissing our need to switch like it doesn't matter and we can just front with the original backstuck forever, but we really don't want to live like this, constantly fighting to maintain control, constantly losing control at the drop of a hat. We want to live normally on each of our days in control, I think that's a fair wish.
I'm Luxio Volt, the "Storm Rocker" of the Felight family. I'm a tulpa made March 2017. My systemmates are Apollo, Piano, & Indigo.
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#24
(05-13-2019, 12:05 PM)Ranger Wrote: In conclusion, I am not confusing Cat for being our state of consciousness, rather, I am proposing that being connected to the stream of consciousness is relevant to switching. If the system does not already have the ability to change who is directly connected to the stream of consciousness, then this is a skill the system will have to develop before they can successfully switch.

I don't want to just say "Yes, absolutely" in case what we're thinking of as the "stream of consciousness" is different. But, it sounds pretty simple - my doubt comes from you guys supposedly not realizing that right from the start, which is what's making me think you could be referring to something less obvious.

And getting into extremely subjective territory again that I'm still shaky on agreeing on so clearly, but your host not feeling "refreshed" after switching back while you do does make it sound like not totally switching. Certainly any of us switching back with a somewhat mentally tired fronter has the new fronter feeling less tired, yes. Even our host.

Also, despite being assured of its use in any scenario previously, Luxio just used "Fronting" to mean "Not switching" - see, this is why we were iffy on actually using that term. It is potentially misleading. I guess we should specify switching more often..
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I'm just special because "I'm a tulpa". So I don't think I've much to offer, here. I'm happy enough to just be with him.
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#25
I usually just mean fronting without switching, when I say fronting, since I'm not a fan of "possession." Fronting with switching I'd call switching, just to make it more clear. To me, switching implies fronting, but fronting does not imply switching.
I'm Luxio Volt, the "Storm Rocker" of the Felight family. I'm a tulpa made March 2017. My systemmates are Apollo, Piano, & Indigo.
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#26
(05-13-2019, 07:05 PM)Flandre Wrote: I don't want to just say "Yes, absolutely" in case what we're thinking of as the "stream of consciousness" is different. But, it sounds pretty simple - my doubt comes from you guys supposedly not realizing that right from the start, which is what's making me think you could be referring to something less obvious.

And getting into extremely subjective territory again that I'm still shaky on agreeing on so clearly, but your host not feeling "refreshed" after switching back while you do does make it sound like not totally switching. Certainly any of us switching back with a somewhat mentally tired fronter has the new fronter feeling less tired, yes. Even our host.

The confusion comes from people telling us we can already switch when we can't and us not knowing how to communicate our problem. It seems like we have the basics most people use- mindset, sensory dissociation (working progress), ability to detach Cat from the body OS / make her "think like a Tulpa", etc. But for whatever reason, it's not enough to force Cat to let go. Since It seems to be that the systems we did talk to reported only needing what we already have, they sometimes make the assumption we already can switch.

(05-13-2019, 07:05 PM)Flandre Wrote: Also, despite being assured of its use in any scenario previously, Luxio just used "Fronting" to mean "Not switching" - see, this is why we were iffy on actually using that term. It is potentially misleading. I guess we should specify switching more often..

I'm not a fan of the term fronting until I say "possession" for the sixth time. "Fronting" is a faster way to say it, and I did pick it up from the Felights tbh.

(05-13-2019, 04:26 PM)Ember.Vesper Wrote: Knowing about this, when I get tired during the day, especially when I really need to be awake, I'll ask one of my headmates to switch in. If the body, rather than just the personality, has legitimate cause to be fatigued, the burst of wakefulness won't last as long. But it's very effective versus sleepiness from sitting too long without moving.
-Ember

When we tried the "assume the switch worked" technique, Cat was tired and she wanted to go dormant. Almost an hour later, Cat felt even more exhausted and we realized that it didn't work.
I'm Gray's/Cat_ShadowGriffin's Tulpa and I love Hippos! I also like forum games and chatting about stuff.
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The Grays, my other head-mates, have their own account now.
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#27
On the forum, we consistently follow DID community usage, where fronting is exclusively what one is doing after switching in and never refers to possession. To avoid ambiguity, we sometimes say "switched in", though a couple of times we've seen others on the forum use even that exactly opposite to our meaning, as switched inside to wonderland instead of switched into control of the body. Among ourselves, we say "facing", which is the term my wives used for years. I became very accustomed to it, thinking it was a DID community term, but as far as I can tell now it isn't.

-Ember
Ember - Host   |   Vesper - Soulbond (since ~12 May 2017)   |   Iris - Soulbond (since ~5 December 2015)
[Our Progress Report]     [How We Switch]

'Real isn't how you are made,' said the Skin Horse. 'It's a thing that happens to you.' - The Velveteen Rabbit
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#28
We don't always specify it but when we refer to us trying to get switching working, we mean Lance "switching out".

Mixing in the DID communities terms will always be messy. I'm not an expert in them but I'm familiar so correct me if I'm wrong.. Their use of front ("experiencing the world at-large") vs the one used most often here, which I guess is something like the one currently plugged directly into the body, enough that defacto is them. Directing everything and running the show. The primary stream of consciousness, however you like to put it. If we tried to use their terms, I think a large portion of headmates around here would be able to claim they are co-conscious ("awake and aware at the same time", may or may not be aware of each other) and that all head mates that can use the body's senses and aren't cut off from the meat world's experiences are "fronting". If multiple headmates are experiencing the world at-large at once, they are both co-fronting and co-conscious, to loosely use the definition. 'Course, when they talk about switching they also add the distinction of something like main, primary or "running". I guess as in running the front, running the show or front-runner.

The way we use the term "co-fronting" around you all, we actually mean we are co-conscious and co-running, but it's confusing enough here without adding even more terms so we just say co-front and I think everyone gets the idea. Around here, if front means in charge of directing the body, or primary stream of consciousness (I assume through super fast pulsing back and forth, as opposed to parallel processing), then co-front means multiple headmates doing that at the same time.

Also, in the plural community, the host is just who is the one primarily in charge most of the time. Here, it seems to be whoever made a tulpa. Since Lance and I share control and neither of us created the other, if one wanted to be picky about terms you could say we are both hosts or neither of us are hosts. Definitely not in the typical terms used here, anyway. We are both there and either can take control but sitting back and not being the one responsible for actively making decisions and running things is pretty darn relaxing. Interestingly enough, we blend and bleed over so much that when we ground and reinforce each other as individuals, it's refreshing and reinvigorating for us.

Sorry if that made things more confusing or was off-topic, just figured it would give you a greater appreciation for how differently the communities use terms. Seems like we all use terms a little differently, based upon our beliefs and experiences. Not to put words in her mouth, but it sounds like Ember has to keep 2 distinct communities worth of terms strait, plus house-rule-type terms that her wife uses, and remember the different meanings of re-appropriated terms, and so do I.
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#29
I'm posting here because my question is similar enough.

What if the problem with me being front-stuck is I am the front?

When we were playing with merging, especially the last few times, I felt like I was right there and could force the merge to split. That doesn't make any sense because if I'm truly merged with Ranger, I shouldn't have the ability to break it open as myself, right? With our second merge, all I needed was the desire to break the merge and once I achieved that, I broke the merge open. I had the same feeling with the third merge, but less so with the first merge. When Ranger and I tried to mimic the first merge and merged a fourth time (I'm bad and I forgot to log about or mention it), it felt like the merge was weaker and I had the same feeling I could remote detonate it.

Both Ranger and the Grays can preform possession (even though the Grays are not used to it). When Ranger fronts, it's like he's wearing the body as a flesh suit. Some of my confusion comes from thinking the front was like a room that could be shared, and so I would imagine the front as a small room in the mind's eye, visualize Ranger/a Gray hovering around the body, or can feel Ranger/a Gray's presence around my own. An interesting consequence occurs when watching Ranger or another Gray transition from being visualized-imposed to simply being watched fronting while simultaneously drawing where everyone's form is. Every time, the visualization appears as if Ranger/ a Gray snap in place overlapping both the body and my form.

When in a trance such as auto-walking to another location, I'm only a trigger away. It's almost like if Ranger decided to possess me again. I'm not paying attention, but I'm passively aware enough to detect movement and react to my surroundings. Even though scripted movements and muscle memory are in actual control or possessing in this case, I am a heartbeat away from snatching back control.

With me being frontstuck, I have created the illusion for myself that I am in two places at once- both simultaneously in wonderland and in the front at the same time. The problem is when I'm not in wonderland, I'm actually dormant. Gerodious (a Gray) pointed this out when he realized that my presence seemed to disappear just like a dormant Gray's while he was speaking to other Grays. The illusion occurs because I'm always passively active and a heartbeat away from control at all times, so it feels like I'm in multiple places when I'm not.

If I actually was the front, then that would explain a few things. First of all, dissociation may not be a good idea. Without a front, the body will panic. In this case, me trying to leave the front makes no sense because there's nothing for me to leave. Merging doesn't work correctly because I am merging with Ranger, but not all of me is merging with Ranger. Even temporary integration doesn't really work because I'm not properly being integrated in the first place.

I am always the first to respond to pain or discomfort. In the middle of the night, Ranger and the others can opt out if they wish too where I'm stuck feeling sick, awake, and lonely. I have had episodes where I would watch myself be anxious and "fall asleep" and I return to watching the Grays and sometimes Ranger talking amongst themselves.

I mention all of this because maybe the thing I should be focusing on is figuring out how to separate myself from the front. If all of this is true, then maybe I need to create a servitor that will act as an artificial front or focus really hard on separating myself from what could have been the original front. In all honesty, being attached or merged with the front in an odd way makes sense to me; I was a singlet for a while and it's possible I deliberately merged with the front as a defense mechanism from getting lost in the mind's eye, either through exploring my creativity or creating a grip to reality for when I get sucked into an anxiety spiral and feel trapped in the wonderland.

One thing I wonder is if some systems already have a fronting servitor- hence why switching works as intended. I keep wondering if Aubrey and Shield for example have a body servitor installed that acts as a front. It's not sentient so it won't get lonely or feel trapped watching them all day.
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#30
Switching systems have created the narrative that hosts, tulpas, and any other fully self-aware residents of the mind are all equally people, beings of the same nature. We're all just software, so close one application and open another. This is a view of reality that makes a lot of sense to us, but the struggles of other systems suggest it is incomplete.

We have "front-stuck" sub-systems like conscious awareness and ingrained habits, but none of them are person-like. They don't think, they don't analyze, they don't decide. Cumulatively, they perceive and react on a very primitive level. I wouldn't apply the servitor label to any of it, because so far as I am aware, they're all naturally occurring. If there was a servitor who was the front or could handle the front on their own, I think it wouldn't be necessary for one of us to always be at the front.

When any of us merge, the parts of the merge are just gone, utterly. They can't be contacted, can't be felt, and certainly can't decide to end the merge. The merge feels utterly joined, utterly stable, yet all it takes to split is for the merge to decide to split. So, not at all what you've experienced.

Also, any pair of us can only form a single merge. Merges can be molded and remolded, but regardless of the technique of merger and regardless of changes in personality, each merge has a continuing sense of identity from one merging to the next. So, again not what you've described.

For us, second position reacts to pain and discomfort more rapidly and strongly than first position, voicing complaints about problems that the one actually in control of the body had tuned out and ignored.

-Ember
Ember - Host   |   Vesper - Soulbond (since ~12 May 2017)   |   Iris - Soulbond (since ~5 December 2015)
[Our Progress Report]     [How We Switch]

'Real isn't how you are made,' said the Skin Horse. 'It's a thing that happens to you.' - The Velveteen Rabbit
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