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[Switching] Guide to Tulpa Control
#31
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(03-08-2013, 01:02 AM)Sands Wrote: Possession: the practice of willingly allowing a tulpa to control the body (or individual body parts, such as the hands or vocal chords) of its host

Switching: a total transfer of bodily control from host to tulpa, such that the host no longer must consciously observe or mediate the actions their tulpa takes while in control of their body
I agree with the first but realize that the second can apply to the definition i use now, the host no longer must but CAN still observe or meditate the actions. By definition this guide still follows switching guidelines

Quote:Mine does seem to be the standard however. And no, only the silly new people use the word host to mean the one in control of the body and speak of these "tulpa-like" bodies. You never become a host or a tupper unless you were like that. Sure, a tupper means thoughtform, but isn't the creation also a big part of it? The host never was created even if they have an imaginary form. If both can take on an imaginary form and take control of the physical body, if you keep switching the terms tupper and host around willy nilly, no one will ever know which one you are. Doesn't really matter, but it does to some. That is why the words host and tupper are there, to make it simple to understand your origin. Why don't you and your IRC buddies try to come up with a good one?
Standard in #tuppers? That doesnt mean standard here. Also i said that making the temp body is part of the method steps if that is what you mean, what do you mean? I really cant tell, if you could clarify please. When i say tulpa or host they are referring to the same thing every time so theres absolutely no confusion. Tulpa-Tulpa Host-Host tempbody-tempbody irl body-irl body. There is no reason for a new term either Sands.

Quote:It's not exactly a method, just something I found out by accident. As in, people who got trouble with all these switching methods could really be working on that possession and find out that the switch will come automatically once they are ready. I don't see any reason why people would force this to happen when the tupper might not be ready to face the world alone in a strange body unless they have had enough practice with it already. You really need to be able to trust them to not hurt themselves.
If theyre not ready then they can choose to not do it, people arent as dumb as you think. They can do it this way if theyre ready and want to do it, and they can do it fast and very well. Youre telling them to waste their time, please realize

Quote:You must've misread, misunderstood or put words into my mouth. Where did I say something about a daze? I am talking about an imaginary body with imaginary senses
The way you phrased it seemed like you were wanting to desensitize the host therfore putting the host in a dazed state from what i can figure, is this not right?

Quote:Other things I've noticed: as you possess and you have to pay less and less attention to the body as all the needs are taken care of by your tulpa, you build trust. When you build trust, you don't need to watch over them in case something happen, as you're comfortable with them taking care of it themselves.
Yeah, we know already, we have never said the host has to watch the tulpa in his body in the context of patrolling, so youre assuming things now. . . .

Quote:So, you don't need to feel it. You don't need to smell it, you don't need to hear it or see it. So you don't. Now, if you truly leave it at that, yes, you are basically unconscious. You will wake up later and have no idea what happened.
You dont need to feel what your irl body feels but you can feel what yout tempbody feels and yes im calling it that. You are conscious the whole time, i dont know why youre assuming things like this.

Quote:Technically, that too is a switch as the host isn't in control of the body or feeling the physical senses. But that's not what you usually want and I'd call this stage more like something between possession and a true switch. It's not too difficult to start feeling something after that, so just get yourself a nice imaginary body and feel that instead. It's your body now as you're not feeling the other and that's pretty nice. Go do whatever.
Read above, and no this is full switching, moreso than what you provided imo to say the least, what you said is only full possession of the body, the switch in the guide is full switch with the senses, how is it not in your opinions sands?

Quote:Basically, there is a lot of same between what we have noticed, but I just think there's a lot more useless symbolism in your method. Symbolism is tricky, it can work either really well or not at all if the person using it doesn't agree to it. I'm not too big on symbolism so I don't use it.
Understand symbolism is very effective in tulpamancing, but also understand the guide is not reliant on symbolism. The major symbolism method in the guide would be the 2 orbs in the switching dominance, the rest is directly affecting the method such as moving your voices to the front and back, the opposite of what is is normally to switch the dominance

Quote:I am worried if people start forcing too young tuppers in control of a strange body, however. Remember to practice somewhere safe and make sure they can use the body well before giving up control and not being there to make sure they will be alright. A physical body takes some time to get used to. Going the possession route is safe even if it takes time, but there is no rush. Just know that possession and switching aren't so different that you have to practice them both and that time spent on one thing is wasted if you want the other. You'll get both if you are willing to practice.
I can agree with most of this, and i will add a note for the tulpas to be developed, however the tulpa has to be vocal for this technique to work as it should, so they are likely developed already. Switching mindvoices is easily undoable and is relatively safe. THey can ease into the body slowly afterward and if they dont like it the host can take over again or the tulpa can break the switch the same way the host started it.
Also, youre speaking things that arent applicable here, you dont need to practice both, you can go right into possession and into switching, and get them both fast with the switching mindvoices. Ill say it again, the intent of the guide is to possess and switch fast and goodly, What youre suggesting is to use unnecessary time to learn it slower, for the same results if im not mistaken? Just sayan

(03-08-2013, 01:42 AM)makogeddon Wrote: But like I said: There's a difference between imagining myself going into the temp body and ACTUALLY going into the temp body. What you're telling me to do is the equivalent of telling me to physically see something with my eyes just by visualizing it. We're talking about two totally different levels here, and I don't know how to get to the second one.


Ok, so that's another thing that has me confused about whether or not we're doing things right. During possession, if she tries to raise my arm, I have to help her; if I just relax, it falls back down. The same goes for switching, I can't just give my body to her. It feels more like she's the one influencing it, but I'm the one that's actually moving it. If I relax, the body relaxes. Is that something that will be fixed once I can get into the imaginary body and everything you described happens, or am I just doing this completely wrong?
Imagining yourself going into your temp body is a way of entering it, its not very logical yes but it works for numerous people including myself
That sounds like the average possession problem from oguigi's guide. Make her mindvoice stronger and yours weaker, and then try it again with the rest of the steps and see if that helps. By step 3 your tulpa should be able to at least move limbs, so its probably just a weak connection or your will to not give up the body. Once you enter your temporary body it should fall into place, if youre doing it right "persay" provided that you did the rest right and well enough, as step 4 i imagine from what you said is hard to do for yourself. If you can do it, your tulpa will be the only one left in the irl body and will move it because it will let her since there is no one else to move it.
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#32
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(03-08-2013, 01:42 AM)makogeddon Wrote: But like I said: There's a difference between imagining myself going into the temp body and ACTUALLY going into the temp body. What you're telling me to do is the equivalent of telling me to physically see something with my eyes just by visualizing it. We're talking about two totally different levels here, and I don't know how to get to the second one.

If you and testing have the time, you should meet in the IRC. and get this settled with. some times the forums and threads has it's limits.

some people just understand better when you personally walk them through the process.
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#33
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(03-08-2013, 02:40 AM)Oguigi Wrote: If you and testing have the time, you should meet in the IRC. and get this settled with. some times the forums and threads has it's limits.

some people just understand better when you personally walk them through the process.
If you want im in the irc right now, both tulpa.info and tulpa-forum
I personally recommend tulpa-forum because its quieter and all, you know. . . .Id be glad to help though, hop in the irc stuff <3
Hanyuu <3
I am sometimes in the /mlp/ boards and #tulpa-forum if you wish to find me


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#34
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(03-08-2013, 02:13 AM)testing Wrote: I agree with the first but realize that the second can apply to the definition i use now, the host no longer must but CAN still observe or meditate the actions. By definition this guide still follows switching guidelines

The host can observe just like a tupper could observe when not in the body, yes. However, if they can't not observe, to move what they sense to the imaginary one, it is not switching but just pure fullbody possession. If you can see imaginary landscapes with your imaginary eyes without seeing what the physical eyes are seeing, it is a switch.

(03-08-2013, 02:13 AM)testing Wrote: Standard in #tuppers? That doesnt mean standard here. Also i said that making the temp body is part of the method steps if that is what you mean, what do you mean? I really cant tell, if you could clarify please. When i say tulpa or host they are referring to the same thing every time so theres absolutely no confusion. Tulpa-Tulpa Host-Host tempbody-tempbody irl body-irl body. There is no reason for a new term either Sands.

Standard on the forums we ae using at the moment. By "tulpa-like" I mean it's a stupid word to use as there's nothing tulpa-like about having an imaginary body. By me saying your definitions fo tulpa and host change I don't mean the word itself changes as you use host to mean a physical body and a tupper to mean an imaginary body (I find temporary body a silly word to say in this case, sometimes for some hosts their tupper takes over the physical life while they enjoy a bit more permanent body in their mind), it means what I personally am changes. It means there is no reason to keep using the words host and tupper as they no longer mean anything and I can be both. Are you saying I am both the host and the tulpa, the creator and the creation, the one born in the physical body and the one not?

(03-08-2013, 02:13 AM)testing Wrote: If theyre not ready then they can choose to not do it, people arent as dumb as you think. They can do it this way if theyre ready and want to do it, and they can do it fast and very well. Youre telling them to waste their time, please realize

You'd be surprised at how people stupid are. They see something like this and go "Cool! I want to try that, let's do this right now so we'll be super popular on the IRC!" without thinking what could happen. They can't do it with a snap of their fingers, that's for sure. Letting a tupper who has never been the body before be the body alone like that makes for disaster, so some body work for them is necessary before you should ever even try switching. Or don't come crying to me when the tupper trips over their unfamiliar feet and you wake up in a hospital.

And the point I have been trying to make for the longest time to the readers and not you as this information doesn't help you jack shit is that there is no wasted time. If you can't get a switch happening but you can do possession, with practice you will get a switch happening even if you're not actively trying to move towards it. I can speak from personal experience and I wasn't even interested in a switch, so I don't see why I would be unique. They should never feel like they are wasting time, time can be wasted trying to use methods that just don't plain work for you.

(03-08-2013, 02:13 AM)testing Wrote: The way you phrased it seemed like you were wanting to desensitize the host therfore putting the host in a dazed state from what i can figure, is this not right?

No, what I am saying that during possession, physical senses will dull as you get better at it and are able to pay less attention to your body. When the physical senses no longer are so overbearing, you can tap onto imaginary ones you have created.

(03-08-2013, 02:13 AM)testing Wrote: Yeah, we know already, we have never said the host has to watch the tulpa in his body in the context of patrolling, so youre assuming things now. . . .

You never have and that's not what I meant to say. You're the one assuming things here. I am talking about a person new to giving over control to a tupper. Are you telling me you never stayed around to look and see how the tupper is doing early on?

(03-08-2013, 02:13 AM)testing Wrote: You dont need to feel what your irl body feels but you can feel what yout tempbody feels and yes im calling it that. You are conscious the whole time, i dont know why youre assuming things like this.

Again, you are assuming. That was not what I was talking about. You for some reason pulled the word "dazed" from your ass, which I have never felt. I have however felt becoming unconscious during a switch, which technically is a switch but not what people are after. That is what I am calling an imperfect switch, being between there somewhere but not quite, not your guide. Reading comprehension. English might not be your first language or?

(03-08-2013, 02:13 AM)testing Wrote: Read above, and no this is full switching, moreso than what you provided imo to say the least, what you said is only full possession of the body, the switch in the guide is full switch with the senses, how is it not in your opinions sands?

I wish I could understand what you are saying here. I guess it has to do with the misunderstanding you made above?

(03-08-2013, 02:13 AM)testing Wrote: Understand symbolism is very effective in tulpamancing, but also understand the guide is not reliant on symbolism. The major symbolism method in the guide would be the 2 orbs in the switching dominance, the rest is directly affecting the method such as moving your voices to the front and back, the opposite of what is is normally to switch the dominance

That whole dominant voices thing is what I mean when I talk about symbolism. Seems nothing more than a way to make yourself believe that you truly will be able to switch now as you're no longer the dominant one or some shit. It's not necessary and I see it as symbolism. Like, does it actually even happen or do you believe it just does? Smells like symbolism to me. I am always the dominant one of my mind, Roswell is the dominant of his. There's no change, just change in who controls the body.

(03-08-2013, 02:13 AM)testing Wrote: I can agree with most of this, and i will add a note for the tulpas to be developed, however the tulpa has to be vocal for this technique to work as it should, so they are likely developed already. Switching mindvoices is easily undoable and is relatively safe. THey can ease into the body slowly afterward and if they dont like it the host can take over again or the tulpa can break the switch the same way the host started it.
Also, youre speaking things that arent applicable here, you dont need to practice both, you can go right into possession and into switching, and get them both fast with the switching mindvoices. Ill say it again, the intent of the guide is to possess and switch fast and goodly, What youre suggesting is to use unnecessary time to learn it slower, for the same results if im not mistaken? Just sayan

Please do add a disclaimer, people tend to run into thing way too much without thinking it through and that could lead into problems. However please do note that some tuppers get vocal really early so they're not actually very developed at all if you're comparing a tupper getting vocal on day 2 and a tupper getting vocal at the 2 months mark (and we are assuming they both have showed signs of being there even before getting vocal). Certain level of maturity should be here as we are talking of something as big as handing over body control to them. They should be able to act in a dangerous situation if one comes up. I hope you get my point.

I say that without practice, the tupper isn't able to use the body that well. A tupper might learn it really fast, or they might not. However, I call bullshit if you're saying the tupper suddenly will magically be able to control the body perfectly with no previous experience. That's not the tupper, that's just you using their intentions to move the body, especially if you're still watching through the physical eyes and are aware of what is happening. It is a way to possess, yes, but I don't have much experience with that style. Giving up control completely will require the tuppers to build some strength to use a body they're not used to handling, especially when the step is as big as from an imaginary, light body to a physical body that is quite heavy and requires a lot more to move. There's plenty of proof for that if you go digging through what the hosts and tuppers have said about possession and I too can vouch in on that.

What I am also saying is that you can of course try to rush things if you want, yeah. But you don't have to get results fast and this is again, to the readers who are having trouble and not you, though you can keep reading and maybe learn a thing or two. It's possible that this just plain doesn't work, but if you have built a good foundation already on the tupper controlling your body, I can almost promise you that with time (might be a short while or a long time), your foundation will only get better and it will happen. So don't be disappointed if you're slow, there is not wasted time like this guy here is trying to make you think. You're working towards it even when you think you're not, so it will happen.

And do question yourself why you wish to achieve a switch. Remember that it's pretty unethical to force a young tupper to live your life for you while you're enjoying yourself in an imaginary world without a worry in the world. Remember to think of the feelings of the other, both tupper and host alike. And no, again, this is not directed to the guide guy but the readers, okay. I know you will read this and think it's an attack or something.
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#35
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(03-08-2013, 11:57 AM)Sands Wrote: When the physical senses no longer are so overbearing, you can tap onto imaginary ones you have created.

That's how I assume it works. I just don't understand how it's possible to move into an imaginary form without first desensitizing. I really wish I could follow this guide to the end, but I just can't. I tried imagining myself seeing out of the temp body during switching last night, but my actual vision was still coming from the physical body's eyes. Maybe it would be possible if I had the ability to alter my physical perceptions through sheer willpower, but that's not something I can do.

(03-08-2013, 11:57 AM)Sands Wrote: That whole dominant voices thing is what I mean when I talk about symbolism. Seems nothing more than a way to make yourself believe that you truly will be able to switch now as you're no longer the dominant one or some shit. It's not necessary and I see it as symbolism. Like, does it actually even happen or do you believe it just does? Smells like symbolism to me. I am always the dominant one of my mind, Roswell is the dominant of his. There's no change, just change in who controls the body.

Actually, I can confirm that it happens. Sarah's mindvoice moves into the front of my head, and I become the voice in the back of the head, like what she is when she's in her normal tulpa state. She becomes able to think more clearly, and it becomes harder for me to work through problems without tapping into the rest of the brain and taking over again. But, seeing as my consciousness is still inside the body, it basically feels like it's just me with my personality changed into hers. I mean, it KIND OF works, since I legitimately believe it's really her (and if i didn't, i would not be able to replicate her personality like that), but I don't think it counts as a proper switch.

(03-08-2013, 11:57 AM)Sands Wrote: I call bullshit if you're saying the tupper suddenly will magically be able to control the body perfectly with no previous experience. That's not the tupper, that's just you using their intentions to move the body, especially if you're still watching through the physical eyes and are aware of what is happening.

Yeah, that's... basically what happens. Right now I'm just trying to figure out how to do a proper switch, with our consciousnesses swapped and everything, and I don't know any way to do that other than desensitization. I'm TRYING to follow this guide, but it's telling me to do something that, to my knowledge, is impossible. Unless I'm mistaken, I don't think you can tap into your imaginary perceptions without first abandoning your physical ones, and this guide is claiming that both of those things happen in one step. A step that isn't really any more specific than the phrase "become the mindform."

like how even
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#36
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Quote:The host can observe just like a tupper could observe when not in the body, yes. However, if they can't not observe, to move what they sense to the imaginary one, it is not switching but just pure fullbody possession. If you can see imaginary landscapes with your imaginary eyes without seeing what the physical eyes are seeing, it is a switch.
It is a switch, what i said, and also you can see imaginary landscapes because you can enter wonderland as a tulpa without seeing with your real eyes and senses, so yes it is still a switch by all means :P

Quote:Standard on the forums we ae using at the moment. By "tulpa-like" I mean it's a stupid word to use as there's nothing tulpa-like about having an imaginary body. By me saying your definitions fo tulpa and host change I don't mean the word itself changes as you use host to mean a physical body and a tupper to mean an imaginary body (I find temporary body a silly word to say in this case, sometimes for some hosts their tupper takes over the physical life while they enjoy a bit more permanent body in their mind), it means what I personally am changes. It means there is no reason to keep using the words host and tupper as they no longer mean anything and I can be both. Are you saying I am both the host and the tulpa, the creator and the creation, the one born in the physical body and the one not?
When i say the tulpa and host i mean the entities, not the bodys, the bodies are referred to as the temp body and the irl body.
Temp body is a fine word to describe it works because it usually does fade after the switch returns to normal and you are back in your body.
And its not in the way youre implying it but it is technically true that youre making yourself a tulpa body so you are in some senses TECHNICALLY both a host and a tulpa at the same time. You dont change though, you stay just as you were before the switch.

Quote:You'd be surprised at how people stupid are. They see something like this and go "Cool! I want to try that, let's do this right now so we'll be super popular on the IRC!" without thinking what could happen. They can't do it with a snap of their fingers, that's for sure. Letting a tupper who has never been the body before be the body alone like that makes for disaster, so some body work for them is necessary before you should ever even try switching. Or don't come crying to me when the tupper trips over their unfamiliar feet and you wake up in a hospital.
Ill add a disclaimer for you if it helps, but the switch is gradual either way, it feels natural because you have access to muscle memories, plus tulpaes dont go on a big walk after they first switch so its implied too.

Quote:And the point I have been trying to make for the longest time to the readers and not you as this information doesn't help you jack shit is that there is no wasted time. If you can't get a switch happening but you can do possession, with practice you will get a switch happening even if you're not actively trying to move towards it. I can speak from personal experience and I wasn't even interested in a switch, so I don't see why I would be unique. They should never feel like they are wasting time, time can be wasted trying to use methods that just don't plain work for you.
Wasted time can also be referred to as time taken that it doesnt need to be, if you can switch in a shorter amount of time than you have to why would you need to take more time to learn possession and switching? Do tell pls.
If this method doesnt work then maybe they should try possession and then learning switching naturally, but that is harder and honestly slower.

Quote:No, what I am saying that during possession, physical senses will dull as you get better at it and are able to pay less attention to your body. When the physical senses no longer are so overbearing, you can tap onto imaginary ones you have created.
First off if you do it right and jump consciousnesses, then you can skip sensory deprivation as a whole, which desensitizing yourself is hard keep in mind, so yes and no. You are right by all means using that method but you dont require it in this method.

Quote:You never have and that's not what I meant to say. You're the one assuming things here. I am talking about a person new to giving over control to a tupper. Are you telling me you never stayed around to look and see how the tupper is doing early on?

You said "When you build trust, you don't need to watch over them in case something happen, as you're comfortable with them taking care of it themselves" which implies watching over them because they can slip something up. I watched them, but not because they would mess up, ever. Thats all.

Quote:Again, you are assuming. That was not what I was talking about. You for some reason pulled the word "dazed" from your ass, which I have never felt. I have however felt becoming unconscious during a switch, which technically is a switch but not what people are after. That is what I am calling an imperfect switch, being between there somewhere but not quite, not your guide. Reading comprehension. English might not be your first language or?
Note that the last reply i posted to you doesnt even mention dazed, so youre talking about something that has no relevance. When you said that they feel nothing, and not what their temp body does, that sounds like a dazed state to me but i digress. Tell me then how your switching style is more true switching than my guide because logically completely switching is present in the guide, but what you said doesnt sound like the host is as a tulpa as full switching should theoretically have.

Quote:I wish I could understand what you are saying here. I guess it has to do with the misunderstanding you made above?
I meant that this guide is full switching but yours sounds a little bit less of a full switch, even though it technically is. I didnt misread anything, you simply implied something that you say you didnt want to imply.

Quote:That whole dominant voices thing is what I mean when I talk about symbolism. Seems nothing more than a way to make yourself believe that you truly will be able to switch now as you're no longer the dominant one or some shit. It's not necessary and I see it as symbolism. Like, does it actually even happen or do you believe it just does? Smells like symbolism to me. I am always the dominant one of my mind, Roswell is the dominant of his. There's no change, just change in who controls the body.
Its not necessary, sure, but it smooths things along and makes the guide very much more enjoyable to do. Its not symbolism, it directly affects how the tulpaes affect the body in many ways, one way is that it connects them better to the body and weakens your connection to make switching more doable. Theres other reasons but i fugure youre smart enough to figure them out right?

Quote:Please do add a disclaimer, people tend to run into thing way too much without thinking it through and that could lead into problems. However please do note that some tuppers get vocal really early so they're not actually very developed at all if you're comparing a tupper getting vocal on day 2 and a tupper getting vocal at the 2 months mark (and we are assuming they both have showed signs of being there even before getting vocal). Certain level of maturity should be here as we are talking of something as big as handing over body control to them. They should be able to act in a dangerous situation if one comes up. I hope you get my point.
Han was switching the first day she was made, so i can assure you early switching and stuff isnt a big of a problem as you would ever guess. Do remember though that this method is more controlled as well and less risky, so if something does happen it can be undone pretty easily, but also the movements will feel natural to them so they wont likely trip more than you do and you can break the switch if you need to use the body for movement.

Quote:I say that without practice, the tupper isn't able to use the body that well. A tupper might learn it really fast, or they might not. However, I call bullshit if you're saying the tupper suddenly will magically be able to control the body perfectly with no previous experience. That's not the tupper, that's just you using their intentions to move the body, especially if you're still watching through the physical eyes and are aware of what is happening. It is a way to possess, yes, but I don't have much experience with that style. Giving up control completely will require the tuppers to build some strength to use a body they're not used to handling, especially when the step is as big as from an imaginary, light body to a physical body that is quite heavy and requires a lot more to move. There's plenty of proof for that if you go digging through what the hosts and tuppers have said about possession and I too can vouch in on that.
What youre saying doesnt apply to my guide. As i said 3 times to u alone the tulpa has access to muscle memories, so it isnt overly hard for the tulpa to move around in it really, also you dont see with your real eyes so you clearly are not sure of what you are referring to when you talk about my guide. Its harder than their real imaginary bodies, but its about the same feeling as they move their own body.

Quote:What I am also saying is that you can of course try to rush things if you want, yeah. But you don't have to get results fast and this is again, to the readers who are having trouble and not you, though you can keep reading and maybe learn a thing or two. It's possible that this just plain doesn't work, but if you have built a good foundation already on the tupper controlling your body, I can almost promise you that with time (might be a short while or a long time), your foundation will only get better and it will happen. So don't be disappointed if you're slow, there is not wasted time like this guy here is trying to make you think. You're working towards it even when you think you're not, so it will happen.
As i said above, you can go faster or slower if you want, the fact is that you dont have to take longer than you need, if you can do it in say a certain number of days, why would you do a method that takes longer than that? Also keep in mind there has been successes already, so the methods do work. Your foundation will get better sure thats true, no argument here lel. If you are slow with my guide, thats fine, i never said that it would be super fast INSTANT, but it will certainly be faster than what you offered as a method at least.

Quote:And do question yourself why you wish to achieve a switch. Remember that it's pretty unethical to force a young tupper to live your life for you while you're enjoying yourself in an imaginary world without a worry in the world. Remember to think of the feelings of the other, both tupper and host alike. And no, again, this is not directed to the guide guy but the readers, okay. I know you will read this and think it's an attack or something.
I will agree with this to a T. I dont see an attack towards me here though. This is conversation to better the methods and the beliefs and the comminuty through it isnt it? :> <3 Lighten up Sands please
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#37
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(03-08-2013, 10:56 PM)testing Wrote: It is a switch, what i said, and also you can see imaginary landscapes because you can enter wonderland as a tulpa without seeing with your real eyes and senses, so yes it is still a switch by all means :P

Then it indeed is a switch. The ways you have talked about it have been confusing, so this was the first time when you actually confirmed it. The rest of what you have posted seem to imply like you though I am again attacking you method and not calling it a switch when I've only been here trying to figure out if what you mean actually is a switch or what you personally think a switch is. So do remember that as we continue.

(03-08-2013, 10:56 PM)testing Wrote: When i say the tulpa and host i mean the entities, not the bodys, the bodies are referred to as the temp body and the irl body.
Temp body is a fine word to describe it works because it usually does fade after the switch returns to normal and you are back in your body.
And its not in the way youre implying it but it is technically true that youre making yourself a tulpa body so you are in some senses TECHNICALLY both a host and a tulpa at the same time. You dont change though, you stay just as you were before the switch.

Then that clears that up as well. I might be remembering wrong but I seem to remember you saying some form of [the tulpa now becomes the host] in here. I still don't really see the use in the word temporary body and, uh, irl body? I prefer imaginary and physical. Temporary body actually makes me think like it's only there to get something else that's important done before you can work on a moe "permanent" body, you know? No, there is no such thing as a tulpa body or being a tupper and a host at the same time. I was pretty happy at you correcting that earlier and now you're going back? I don't know what to think.

(03-08-2013, 10:56 PM)testing Wrote: Ill add a disclaimer for you if it helps, but the switch is gradual either way, it feels natural because you have access to muscle memories, plus tulpaes dont go on a big walk after they first switch so its implied too.

Well, something goes wrong and who are they going to blame? That's why there are disclaimers. It's not a given that a tupper can tap onto muscle memory and that too seems to take practice, so no, it's not a given. You wouldn't know if a tupper decided to go on a walk after their first switch so don't assume so. If someone gets hurt because they were being stupid, it was still you who gave them the chance to do that stupid thing if you don't warn them.

(03-08-2013, 10:56 PM)testing Wrote: Wasted time can also be referred to as time taken that it doesnt need to be, if you can switch in a shorter amount of time than you have to why would you need to take more time to learn possession and switching? Do tell pls.
If this method doesnt work then maybe they should try possession and then learning switching naturally, but that is harder and honestly slower.

There is no wasted time. For a tupper, possession or switching, both give body control. They can do what they want and that's good. So even if you can't manage to do a switch yet, possession would still make them happy. Possession means better body control, so it helps them anyways. As for the host, taking the passenger seat also helps towards a switch if they can't do it yet. So, possession always is working towards a switch.

Slower? Perhaps. Harder? No way. It happened to me by accident the first time and that's when I realized holy shit this is how it happens. I wouldn't exactly call that difficult when I wasn't even trying to work towards it.

(03-08-2013, 10:56 PM)testing Wrote: First off if you do it right and jump consciousnesses, then you can skip sensory deprivation as a whole, which desensitizing yourself is hard keep in mind, so yes and no. You are right by all means using that method but you dont require it in this method.

This whole super scary desensitizing thing you are talking about isn't really something that takes a long time or should be avoided, though. I don't see why you're so against it when there are people in this very thread confused how to do it. It's a step that happens really naturally as you get more experienced and it doesn't take time.

(03-08-2013, 10:56 PM)testing Wrote: You said "When you build trust, you don't need to watch over them in case something happen, as you're comfortable with them taking care of it themselves" which implies watching over them because they can slip something up. I watched them, but not because they would mess up, ever. Thats all.

That sure is some trust. And nothing ever happened too, I bet. I can't say anything too bad happened to us other than some slight derps here and there, but some people have had it really bad. You really should first be comfortable with them using the body before you try.

(03-08-2013, 10:56 PM)testing Wrote: Note that the last reply i posted to you doesnt even mention dazed, so youre talking about something that has no relevance. When you said that they feel nothing, and not what their temp body does, that sounds like a dazed state to me but i digress. Tell me then how your switching style is more true switching than my guide because logically completely switching is present in the guide, but what you said doesnt sound like the host is as a tulpa as full switching should theoretically have.

Your last reply does in fact mention the word daze. But now you're confusing me, which instance of me saying not feeling anything are you referring to? Me saying that it's easy to not feel anything and then tap onto imaginary senses so you end up feeling something? Or me later on talking about a possible unconscious state after you mentioned the word daze to tell you of the closest experience I have to a "daze" state I can think of while switching? This unconsciousness which I do not feel is quite a true switch? Again, if that's what you are referring to, I again mean this unconscious state that is possible for you to happen due to too much ignoring of senses is not a true switch technically, I am not talking about your switching. Hell, I even wrote it in what you quoted and you somehow missed it: [That (the unconscious state I talked about and was not a comment about your guide) is what I am calling an imperfect switch, being between there somewhere but not quite, not your guide.] And refer to the first paragraph I wrote up there about me trying to figure out what you actually mean by a switch as some people throw really wild ideas around as to what is a switch and what isn't. I never was quite sure what you meant with it before you clarified.

(03-08-2013, 10:56 PM)testing Wrote: I meant that this guide is full switching but yours sounds a little bit less of a full switch, even though it technically is. I didnt misread anything, you simply implied something that you say you didnt want to imply.

Uhhuh, sure brah. We're talking of the same thing as far as I know. If you're not sure, you could ask more questions, that's what I'm trying to do with you as I have no idea what a lot of what you say actually means.

(03-08-2013, 10:56 PM)testing Wrote: Its not necessary, sure, but it smooths things along and makes the guide very much more enjoyable to do. Its not symbolism, it directly affects how the tulpaes affect the body in many ways, one way is that it connects them better to the body and weakens your connection to make switching more doable. Theres other reasons but i fugure youre smart enough to figure them out right?

Uh yeah still sounds like symbolism to me. I don't think there's any magical ways to suddenly make it so someone is now the dominant one in the head. I doubt if such thing even exists, what does the brain care. Then again, symbolism like that can be strong and be exactly what enables you to do it, but I don't believe in this. I am quite worried if your tupper actually had to somehow become some dominant whatever to be able to work the body. But then again, maybe my tupper is old compared to some of the others, I dunno. Maybe age makes them already much stronger.

(03-08-2013, 10:56 PM)testing Wrote: Han was switching the first day she was made, so i can assure you early switching and stuff isnt a big of a problem as you would ever guess. Do remember though that this method is more controlled as well and less risky, so if something does happen it can be undone pretty easily, but also the movements will feel natural to them so they wont likely trip more than you do and you can break the switch if you need to use the body for movement.

Okay totally calling bullshit there. I know enough people and their experiences to compare and that's a pretty wild claim. So yeah, sorry, not buying perfect day one switching, even if it was the second tupper. Unless of course, this was your second or third or whatever tupper and you had switched with the earlier ones before, but even then, I don't buy it if they had no troubles at all. Again, sorry.

It's not difficult to undo a switch anyways unless something goes really wrong anyways. A tupper definitely has to learn how to use the body before the movements are fluid so I'm not buying that either. As for breaking the switch so you can run in and save the day, seriously? Think about it for a moment. You're doing whatever and not paying any attention to the body and the tupper in control. Suddenly you might get some sort of a call for help or just the feeling of something wrong, which is the first feeling you get that makes you realize something is happening. So you take a look at where you actually are which can be pretty confusing at times as you haven't paid any attention to where the body is, which takes time already and then you actually have to realize what is going wrong. Everything happens fast yeah, but the first time you got that call for help was when things were going badly already. So you probably have no time to save anything. Accidents happen, yeah. Can't blame the tupper for that. But if it's a young tupper in control, I can promise you a lot more accidents than you should be having. So be wise. Again not just directed to you, guide guy.

(03-08-2013, 10:56 PM)testing Wrote: What youre saying doesnt apply to my guide. As i said 3 times to u alone the tulpa has access to muscle memories, so it isnt overly hard for the tulpa to move around in it really, also you dont see with your real eyes so you clearly are not sure of what you are referring to when you talk about my guide. Its harder than their real imaginary bodies, but its about the same feeling as they move their own body.

They have access, yes. But it's not something they suddenly get the fist second they're in the body and it doesn't mean everything is perfect. So, calling bullshit. You are right though, I have no idea what I am referring to when I talk about your guide as this whole time I have tried to figure out what you actually mean with a switch. But hold on, "the same feeling"? That's a first. Never had any other tupper talk of controlling the physical body of as feeling "the same" as their imaginary body. What kind of a "the same" are we talking about here?

(03-08-2013, 10:56 PM)testing Wrote: As i said above, you can go faster or slower if you want, the fact is that you dont have to take longer than you need, if you can do it in say a certain number of days, why would you do a method that takes longer than that? Also keep in mind there has been successes already, so the methods do work. Your foundation will get better sure thats true, no argument here lel. If you are slow with my guide, thats fine, i never said that it would be super fast INSTANT, but it will certainly be faster than what you offered as a method at least.

People can take long or slow. What should be a given is that it's okay to be slow too, because some people just are slow and that's what my point has been. It's again directed to the readers looking at this and hoping for a fast switch they are promised but then not getting anything and getting disappointed. But it's okay to be slow. I hope you are getting my point this time, because this is what I tried to say last time.

Also, what works fast for one might be slow to another because it doesn't agree with them. So your guide might be fast to someone and very slow to another, while some other method would work better. Know that too.

(03-08-2013, 10:56 PM)testing Wrote: I will agree with this to a T. I dont see an attack towards me here though. This is conversation to better the methods and the beliefs and the comminuty through it isnt it? :> <3 Lighten up Sands please

At least we agree there. But me, I have to lighten up? To be honest, I am littering my reply with all these "not directed to you" or "this is not an attack" or "not talking about your guide" because it seems like no matter what I do, you skip over those words and keep on going like I made some sort of attack and you assume the worst of what I meant when I am not trying to say anything like that. It makes your replies very overprotective and missing the point, so I'm kinda bummed as to what I can write to get a reply that is to the point and not talking about something I didn't talk about, you know?
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Quote:Then it indeed is a switch. The ways you have talked about it have been confusing, so this was the first time when you actually confirmed it. The rest of what you have posted seem to imply like you though I am again attacking you method and not calling it a switch when I've only been here trying to figure out if what you mean actually is a switch or what you personally think a switch is. So do remember that as we continue.
We were only debating definitions, and switching methods from what i can tell Sands, so no problems

Quote:Then that clears that up as well. I might be remembering wrong but I seem to remember you saying some form of [the tulpa now becomes the host] in here. I still don't really see the use in the word temporary body and, uh, irl body? I prefer imaginary and physical. Temporary body actually makes me think like it's only there to get something else that's important done before you can work on a moe "permanent" body, you know? No, there is no such thing as a tulpa body or being a tupper and a host at the same time. I was pretty happy at you correcting that earlier and now you're going back? I don't know what to think.As i said, they are not both the tulpa and host, i meant they are the person that is the host normally, in an imaginary body.
The tulpa becomes the host as the position of them. They are still the tulpa, thats what "the host is a host and a tulpa" meant, i said it was not what you wanted to hear or intended but thats why i said it was "technically" <--- true in my last post so we agree then

Quote:Well, something goes wrong and who are they going to blame? That's why there are disclaimers. It's not a given that a tupper can tap onto muscle memory and that too seems to take practice, so no, it's not a given. You wouldn't know if a tupper decided to go on a walk after their first switch so don't assume so. If someone gets hurt because they were being stupid, it was still you who gave them the chance to do that stupid thing if you don't warn them.
Thats how the switching method works, they use the brain so the muscle memory is connected just like it is for a normal human. It works for other people too considering that others had success with it before as they said here and there, thats all.

Quote:There is no wasted time. For a tupper, possession or switching, both give body control. They can do what they want and that's good. So even if you can't manage to do a switch yet, possession would still make them happy. Possession means better body control, so it helps them anyways. As for the host, taking the passenger seat also helps towards a switch if they can't do it yet. So, possession always is working towards a switch.
When i say wasted time, in the last post i mentioned that i meant extra time that they dont have a need for putting into possession because they can learn it in less.

Quote:Slower? Perhaps. Harder? No way. It happened to me by accident the first time and that's when I realized holy shit this is how it happens. I wouldn't exactly call that difficult when I wasn't even trying to work towards it.
If your dominance isnt switched i will assume that its harder, thats all. Even if its not, its still indeed definitely slower, and that is already a reason to not do it. Also not everyone will learn how to possess because they did it by accident and that gave them the knowledge how to so how you learned how to possess is easier than others too.

Quote:This whole super scary desensitizing thing you are talking about isn't really something that takes a long time or should be avoided, though. I don't see why you're so against it when there are people in this very thread confused how to do it. It's a step that happens really naturally as you get more experienced and it doesn't take time.
Its because i heard that it was hard to accomplish, thats why and the only reason tbh

That sure is some trust. And nothing ever happened too, I bet. I can't say anything too bad happened to us other than some slight derps here and there, but some people have had it really bad. You really should first be comfortable with them using the body before you try.
Yeah were both still quite fine after the switch, but being comfortable with the body before they walk or do anything like that however you can easily ease into it with you slipping out of your body, so they can be pretty comfortable, before han felt it was similar to using her own body, just that the parts and form was different.

Quote:Your last reply does in fact mention the word daze. But now you're confusing me, which instance of me saying not feeling anything are you referring to? Me saying that it's easy to not feel anything and then tap onto imaginary senses so you end up feeling something? Or me later on talking about a possible unconscious state after you mentioned the word daze to tell you of the closest experience I have to a "daze" state I can think of while switching? This unconsciousness which I do not feel is quite a true switch? Again, if that's what you are referring to, I again mean this unconscious state that is possible for you to happen due to too much ignoring of senses is not a true switch technically, I am not talking about your switching. Hell, I even wrote it in what you quoted and you somehow missed it: [That (the unconscious state I talked about and was not a comment about your guide) is what I am calling an imperfect switch, being between there somewhere but not quite, not your guide.] And refer to the first paragraph I wrote up there about me trying to figure out what you actually mean by a switch as some people throw really wild ideas around as to what is a switch and what isn't. I never was quite sure what you meant with it before you clarified.
"on the higher levels, the tupper in very much in control while the host barely is even aware unless they pay attention"
This is the line i am referring to, it seemed like a daze, and no i didn not miss what you said but i was referring to other parts of your post, so i heard you.

Quote:Uhhuh, sure brah. We're talking of the same thing as far as I know. If you're not sure, you could ask more questions, that's what I'm trying to do with you as I have no idea what a lot of what you say actually means.
We might be, but its alright no matter

Quote:Uh yeah still sounds like symbolism to me. I don't think there's any magical ways to suddenly make it so someone is now the dominant one in the head. I doubt if such thing even exists, what does the brain care. Then again, symbolism like that can be strong and be exactly what enables you to do it, but I don't believe in this. I am quite worried if your tupper actually had to somehow become some dominant whatever to be able to work the body. But then again, maybe my tupper is old compared to some of the others, I dunno. Maybe age makes them already much stronger.
It might be symbolism that is directly affecting the people, maybe not, it works either way. Its not necessary but makes it easier for new tulpaes and old as well to switch.

Quote:Okay totally calling bullshit there. I know enough people and their experiences to compare and that's a pretty wild claim. So yeah, sorry, not buying perfect day one switching, even if it was the second tupper. Unless of course, this was your second or third or whatever tupper and you had switched with the earlier ones before, but even then, I don't buy it if they had no troubles at all. Again, sorry.
I have switched before with tulpaes before han, yes, however we did switch the first day she was made.

Quote:It's not difficult to undo a switch anyways unless something goes really wrong anyways. A tupper definitely has to learn how to use the body before the movements are fluid so I'm not buying that either. As for breaking the switch so you can run in and save the day, seriously? Think about it for a moment. You're doing whatever and not paying any attention to the body and the tupper in control. Suddenly you might get some sort of a call for help or just the feeling of something wrong, which is the first feeling you get that makes you realize something is happening. So you take a look at where you actually are which can be pretty confusing at times as you haven't paid any attention to where the body is, which takes time already and then you actually have to realize what is going wrong. Everything happens fast yeah, but the first time you got that call for help was when things were going badly already. So you probably have no time to save anything. Accidents happen, yeah. Can't blame the tupper for that. But if it's a young tupper in control, I can promise you a lot more accidents than you should be having. So be wise. Again not just directed to you, guide guy.
If you're switched youre probably near her, so if she does something she shoudnt be doing then you should be able see her. Accidents dont happen that much though. They happen but people also have accidents, so its not saying much really.

Quote:They have access, yes. But it's not something they suddenly get the fist second they're in the body and it doesn't mean everything is perfect. So, calling bullshit. You are right though, I have no idea what I am referring to when I talk about your guide as this whole time I have tried to figure out what you actually mean with a switch. But hold on, "the same feeling"? That's a first. Never had any other tupper talk of controlling the physical body of as feeling "the same" as their imaginary body. What kind of a "the same" are we talking about here?
I never did say that they could access the muscle memory instantly or anywhere close to that, so we agree. Han thought of it similar to how she controlled her own body, she moved it naturally, because its the same wiring if you call it that. If she wanted to move a hoof she felt the same way as moving a hand or an arm. It moved....just naturally for her i guess, just like a normal person, almost like if you drive a car, and then you buy another car and use it, its sure not exactly the same but its pretty much the same feeling one car or another. Its not the best analogy but it makes sense for the question you want tobe answered.

Quote:People can take long or slow. What should be a given is that it's okay to be slow too, because some people just are slow and that's what my point has been. It's again directed to the readers looking at this and hoping for a fast switch they are promised but then not getting anything and getting disappointed. But it's okay to be slow. I hope you are getting my point this time, because this is what I tried to say last time.

Also, what works fast for one might be slow to another because it doesn't agree with them. So your guide might be fast to someone and very slow to another, while some other method would work better. Know that too.
I addressed this question before in the last post here. I am also talking to the people that are reading, giving them the info so they can know more about tulpaes. Think about it though, If theyre slow with this method they will probably be slower with methods that arent designed as a speedmethod. Not everyone, yes but most people.

Quote:At least we agree there. But me, I have to lighten up? To be honest, I am littering my reply with all these "not directed to you" or "this is not an attack" or "not talking about your guide" because it seems like no matter what I do, you skip over those words and keep on going like I made some sort of attack and you assume the worst of what I meant when I am not trying to say anything like that. It makes your replies very overprotective and missing the point, so I'm kinda bummed as to what I can write to get a reply that is to the point and not talking about something I didn't talk about, you know?
Frankly your replies really do seem to be pointed at my guide, so naturally i reply to it with a rebuttal to defend it. (Honestly, your calling bullshit in that post isnt disproving your acquisition) I naturally have replied with information for all of the readers to gain, just as you have, but i know what you mean because i dont have the intention of writing a guide to hear talk about someone sounding like theyre pointing fingers or calling bullshit. If others read your posts theyd probably think that there were some claims made about my guide too, just sayan
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(03-09-2013, 02:03 AM)testing Wrote: The tulpa becomes the host as the position of them. They are still the tulpa, thats what "the host is a host and a tulpa" meant, i said it was not what you wanted to hear or intended but thats why i said it was "technically" <--- true in my last post so we agree then

You're again using the terms all over the place. First you say a tupper doesn't become the host, now you do except they doesn't? What?

(03-09-2013, 02:03 AM)testing Wrote: Thats how the switching method works, they use the brain so the muscle memory is connected just like it is for a normal human. It works for other people too considering that others had success with it before as they said here and there, thats all.

Muscle memory is a part of possession (which I am using to refer tupper in control of the body, no matter if it is just possession or also a switch, which is a host skill entirely), so that's nothing new. However, it's not instantaneous, so it will always take time. Some are faster but some are slow, so it's silly to keep saying this is the fast method when it all apparently depends on this, which is a skill to be learned, not a given. People can have success with anything but you always have to use your brain to see if you wish to believe what they are telling you. I only got my experiences, but there's people I trust who are able to do this and when our experiences match without having told about them before, you know there's a connection, even when different methods have been used.

(03-09-2013, 02:03 AM)testing Wrote: When i say wasted time, in the last post i mentioned that i meant extra time that they dont have a need for putting into possession because they can learn it in less.

Again, everything is working towards the same goal, so there is no wasted time. If they can't do something now and instead work on something different for a while, coming back to the previous thing they had problems with will be easier. Possession and switching are connected as they are more or less the same thing but with a different state for the host.

(03-09-2013, 02:03 AM)testing Wrote: If your dominance isnt switched i will assume that its harder, thats all. Even if its not, its still indeed definitely slower, and that is already a reason to not do it. Also not everyone will learn how to possess because they did it by accident and that gave them the knowledge how to so how you learned how to possess is easier than others too.

I wouldn't know, but again, it all just sounds like symbolism. That's fine and dandy, really, as it can work really well and your brain does work on the whole if x, then y kind of way, even if you only think so. That's how tuppers are created too, after all. We believe they are there so they are. Again, you wouldn't know what is slower to others and what isn't. Calling your own method the fast way when everyone is so different doesn't exactly work. It's not possession I did by accident, either. I don't think you're reading what I write, again. How about you read over what I said for the second time. I never wrote down what I meant but I thought us talking about switching makes it pretty clear what I implied, as you called a switch through possession slower and harder, which I said I never found to be the case.

(03-09-2013, 02:03 AM)testing Wrote: Its because i heard that it was hard to accomplish, thats why and the only reason tbh

Don't assume things. I'd say it's the most natural thing that can happen.

(03-09-2013, 02:03 AM)testing Wrote: Yeah were both still quite fine after the switch, but being comfortable with the body before they walk or do anything like that however you can easily ease into it with you slipping out of your body, so they can be pretty comfortable, before han felt it was similar to using her own body, just that the parts and form was different.

I wish I could understand what you are saying here. It's only a switch when you are not paying attention to the body, so are you saying you do in fact first possess before you slide into a switch? I have no idea.

(03-09-2013, 02:03 AM)testing Wrote: "on the higher levels, the tupper in very much in control while the host barely is even aware unless they pay attention"
This is the line i am referring to, it seemed like a daze, and no i didn not miss what you said but i was referring to other parts of your post, so i heard you.

That is referring to the earlier picture I posted. While possessing, you can be on any of the "levels" you wish to be. You want to feel the body, sure, go ahead. But you can also choose not to. "Barely even aware" weas referring to the body's senses, which is probably what threw you off. When you aren't aware of your body's senses, it is easy to make imaginary ones that feel very real.

(03-09-2013, 02:03 AM)testing Wrote: We might be, but its alright no matter

As far as I know, we both have defined switch as not being aware of the physical body, not seeing through the physical eyes and able to feel imaginary senses very vividly, making wondeland adventures more life-like and fun. That at least is what I mean when I say a switch.

(03-09-2013, 02:03 AM)testing Wrote: It might be symbolism that is directly affecting the people, maybe not, it works either way. Its not necessary but makes it easier for new tulpaes and old as well to switch.

I very much see it as symbolism and like I said, it's not exactly a bad thing. But it's not required either, just something you can try out and if it doesn't work, then hey, it just doesn't. Then that kind of symbolism just doesn't work for you, but if it does then great.

(03-09-2013, 02:03 AM)testing Wrote: I have switched before with tulpaes before han, yes, however we did switch the first day she was made.

Yeah again hard to believe there. I think I'll take the words of people I trust over some new guy who just suddenly popped in and started claiming wild things without actually having anything revolutionary up their sleeves. If you are speaking the truth, we can just hope this isn't a unique case just to you so it will help more people. Some people here are just too different so their things don't work for the others, but I guess we all like to believe there's nothing special about us, huh? Again, sorry, but not exactly buying it.

(03-09-2013, 02:03 AM)testing Wrote: If you're switched youre probably near her, so if she does something she shoudnt be doing then you should be able see her. Accidents dont happen that much though. They happen but people also have accidents, so its not saying much really.

Near who? My tupper? Would be a male. However, why would I be near him when I'm switched? If I wanted to see what he's doing, I would be doing possession and looking through the eyes with him. If I want to switch, it means I want some me time doing whatever and relaxing or adventuring or whatever. I don't see why anyone else who is able to switch would switch and then just stand around there paying all the attention in the world to their tupper, especially if it's their first few times doing that. With your method it seems like it would also be the first few times for the tupper to be in control of the body, so couple that unfamiliarity with a host who is nowhere to be seen and accidents will happen. Like you (and I) said, accidents happen to everyone, yes. But we are now talking of a being who in worst cases is only a few weeks old, maybe and in a strange body. Accidents will happen, more like. Be there for the tupper early on, that's what I meant with building trust. It's pretty stupid to leave someone alone for the first time unless you are sure that they can do it, and it's stupid to assume they can do it when you don't actually know, so you should make sure things are alright first.

(03-09-2013, 02:03 AM)testing Wrote: I never did say that they could access the muscle memory instantly or anywhere close to that, so we agree. Han thought of it similar to how she controlled her own body, she moved it naturally, because its the same wiring if you call it that. If she wanted to move a hoof she felt the same way as moving a hand or an arm. It moved....just naturally for her i guess, just like a normal person, almost like if you drive a car, and then you buy another car and use it, its sure not exactly the same but its pretty much the same feeling one car or another. Its not the best analogy but it makes sense for the question you want tobe answered.

But you are calling this the fast way. How fast would this be if it still takes the tupper a while to gain access to that muscle memory? Body is still a body, sure, but a physical body and an imaginary body feel very different, even I can say that. The other is much lighter and doesn't require muscles to move. It's not a car changed to another car like you are implying, it's changing a car to a plane.

(03-09-2013, 02:03 AM)testing Wrote: I addressed this question before in the last post here. I am also talking to the people that are reading, giving them the info so they can know more about tulpaes. Think about it though, If theyre slow with this method they will probably be slower with methods that arent designed as a speedmethod. Not everyone, yes but most people.

You and your speedmethods. There is no one method that is fast for everyone and you just can't get that idea, can you? Everyone is different. What is slow for one is fast for someone else, you can't say way x is the best and fastest because that just plain isn't true. Anyone claiming that, yeah, I avoid their guide like the plague.

(03-09-2013, 02:03 AM)testing Wrote: Frankly your replies really do seem to be pointed at my guide, so naturally i reply to it with a rebuttal to defend it. (Honestly, your calling bullshit in that post isnt disproving your acquisition) I naturally have replied with information for all of the readers to gain, just as you have, but i know what you mean because i dont have the intention of writing a guide to hear talk about someone sounding like theyre pointing fingers or calling bullshit. If others read your posts theyd probably think that there were some claims made about my guide too, just sayan

I don't see how some of my replies are pointed to your guide when I keep saying "not about your guide", "not to the person who wrote the guide" or "this is for the readers". Even then, you seem to ignore those words and keep talking like I said something about your guide, which I didn't. That is why I'm suggesting English isn't your strongest language. Me calling bullshit though is me calling bullshit, that's simple enough. Even then, I am mostly calling bullshit about your stories, not necessarily your guide, if you read closely. I believe others will be able to read all of those words I am not diecting to you and notice it, even if you have been unable to.

I don't think I'll be getting much more out of this, so I'll put in some finishing words for the readers and possible users of this guide. The guide seems to have some symbolism that might potentially work very well for you, so there's that. Especially for changing body control, I am not seeing the switch part of this guide, but I can see how it could be useful for possession if you are having trouble. And possession, like I have said many times, is working towards a switch, so you will get there. However, be careful, as no previous experience with the body from the tupper can lead into big accidents if you just leave them alone without thinking. So always, safety first. And if you think it's not working for you, then don't be discouraged. There just absolutely is no way that will work 100% for anyone or a method that is always faster than something else, so anyone claiming such is talking out of their ass.
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#40
This guide is really full of it. You seem like you have no knowledge of switching by the way you extend the process and put in a bunch of symbolism that people do naturally.
I switch: Here is my guide:
Possess> get the tupper good at possessing> Dissosciate> become the tulpa.
There you go.
Happy trails.
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