[Switching] How to Switch
#11
That's just not true. You don't have to be able to possess to switch, maybe in some methods, but not in all, that's certainly now how i learned it. Also, there is a lot more to switching than just the tulpa controling the body and the host going inactive, that's certainly the most obvious, but it has little to do with the appeal of switching for the most part, and should definitely not be the only thing that you bring up if you are trying to compare it to possession. What switching is really about, other than controlling the body, is greater association and attunement to the body, and having unconscious processes change to fit you rather than the host. That's not really something that you can get at all with possession, it's a very different experience
I have a tulpa named Miela (formerly known as Monika) who I love very much.


"People put quotes in their signatures, right?"
-Me
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#12
(01-06-2019, 02:41 PM)Within Wrote: Some level of parallel processing
  • Quick and dirty way to train this is to have your tulpa guide meditation sessions

Echoing some prior concerns, I feel like this needs more explanation of what you mean by parallel processing here. The explanation on how to train this is a reasonable way to train multitasking and co-consciousness, so it seems like you're not referring to the impossible kind of parallel processing. But right now that's a term that gives a lot of people in the community the wrong impression.

Otherwise, I don't really have many problems with this guide. We used similar techniques while I was learning to switch the first time and I feel very confident that this guide will actually work. It is rather short, doesn't account for contingencies if the method fails, and takes a vague approach to defining switching and what "pushing in" is supposed to be. But I think the definition of switching given is accurate if vague, and avoids pedantic over-definition in what is clearly intended to be a short and simple guide. Similarly, I feel that in cases like this the vagueness of "pushing in" as a symbolic gesture allows the tulpa to read that in the way that feels right to them; different members of my system used slightly different ways of approaching similar concepts of placing their presence into the body, and the vague term well encompasses a variety of symbolic approaches in a way that leaves room for individual interpretation (which will probably result in better results here than precise instructions on how you're supposed to symbolize it).

I've also seen some complaints about the statement that possession is necessary. I do strongly feel that switching is an entirely separate process that is not dependent on knowing possession. But this particular method does seem to include the tulpa possessing for a bit before the switch really settles in, so I feel that the description of possession as a necessary skill for this guide's method is appropriate.

This is not an in-depth guide on switching. It's very bare bones and provides an exercise in broad terms without any other supporting information. That said, I don't see anything wrong with a simple bare bones guide that provides a viable switching method without a lot of supporting information. Such guides should exist, but there are more viable methods to switch than there are developed theories about what switching is, and there's no need for every single guide explaining a new method to regurgitate a lot of dry theory that has already been stated elsewhere. I'll approve the guide if you explain what you mean about parallel processing. It would be better if you addressed what to do if people struggle, but that's not really necessary in my opinion.

(I hope everyone is okay with my systemmate writing this one, she's more or less the resident switching expert in our system. I stand by her review.)
Radical Dreamers system includes:
Jester of Doom, host
Fox, 9 year old tulpa made by Doom
Tiger Valkyrie, 1 year old tulpa made by Doom
Kitsune in Yellow, 1 year old tulpa made by Fox
Voice of Planet, 1 year old tulpa made by several members
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#13
I'll not restate the things Ponytail has said, but I'll put down the fact that I agree with all of them. My primary concern with this guide comes in its earlier parts where negative language and absolute language prevail - keep in mind that every time you tell a reader that they NEED to do something or state something as absolute fact, they don't know whether or not it is an immovable requirement, and thus will typically assume that it is. I'm not saying that you should avoid factual statements, but be cautious when differentiating between the objective and the subjective.

I believe some section should be added to mention the concept of predominance of thought. Switching is, ultimately, the process whereby the tulpa's thought processes become dominant and the default, with the host's being diminished or absent. Thus, I feel it is important for guides on the topic to include mention of how the host ultimately thinks slower/less while the tulpa thinks more. An obstacle both myself and others struggled to overcome is realizing that this process involves me (the host) to just stop thinking so damn much. Even a sentence or two referencing this process could be a worthwhile addition, I feel.

Regardless, the guide is generally accurate, and while there is room for improvement, it certainly stands out as being helpful and productive in its current state, so I think it should be approved by the GAT.
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#14
(01-06-2019, 04:14 PM)Breloomancer Wrote: My problems with this guide are:
1. The definition of switching that you gave is pretty vauge. I switch, but I still don't really know what you mean by "calling the shots," I feel that it's pretty important for a guide on switching give a good definition of what switching is.
2. Parallel processing is not possible simply due to the limitations of the human brain. Because of this including parallel processing in your guide is redundant, helps propogate the misconception that it is possible, and makes the guide look less professional overall.
3. When talking about what the tulpa would do when trying to switch the wording that you use is confusing, it would be much better if you could say what the tulpa is supposed to do more literally instead of using the metaphor of "pushing yourself into the body,"
4. This guide does not give any suggestions for what to do if they are not able to switch on the first time trying these things.

All of these are things that i consider necessary for this guide to be approved. The next problem that I will address is much more minor and this guide could still be alright without it
5. What the host is supposed to do in order to disassociate with the body is alright, but I think that this guide could greatly benefit from going a bit more in depth with what the host should be doing, I think that that would make it much easier for readers to be able to get results quickly.

Other than those complaints I think that the guide it pretty good. It says what it needs to quickly and most of it is easily understandable

I mostly agree with everything that I said here. Of course I do now know that you meant something else by parallel processing, so now instead I would just ask for more specificity with what you mean, or even better, just using a word other than parallel processing.

Also, about the definition of switching, a definition doesn't have to be super in depth, but I think that for something like switching it is important to have a clear definition of what it actually is. Unlike a lot of other tulpamancy practices, a lot of people are really confused on what switching is, and when you don't know what your goal is, it's a lot harder to achieve it.
I have a tulpa named Miela (formerly known as Monika) who I love very much.


"People put quotes in their signatures, right?"
-Me
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#15
(03-30-2019, 08:28 PM)Kopase Wrote: I believe some section should be added to mention the concept of predominance of thought. Switching is, ultimately, the process whereby the tulpa's thought processes become dominant and the default, with the host's being diminished or absent. Thus, I feel it is important for guides on the topic to include mention of how the host ultimately thinks slower/less while the tulpa thinks more.

I disagree regarding that being the general rule. Switching is the process whereby the tulpa's control of the body becomes dominant and the default, with the host's being diminished or absent. A large portion of the time, and starting long before we began switching, we've follow something akin to the bicameralism model, where one of us who is not controlling the body is doing most of the thinking and telling the one in control what ought to be done. The body controller is most definitely switched in, as the primary thinker can easily fall dormant if the controller's attention is pulled away by other matters. Yet I've often had to prod my host to actually remember to talk to me instead of just contentedly listening to me natter on like a background radio. The dominance of one's thoughts in a system seems more a matter of temperament than of position.

A host that has a more dominant temperament than mine might need to be advised to step back, let go, and think less if a tulpa's hold on the switch is unstable, but as you were saying, absolute language can cause problems.

-Vesper
Ember - Host   |   Vesper - Soulbond (since ~12 May 2017)   |   Iris - Soulbond (since ~5 December 2015)
[Our Progress Report]     [How We Switch]

'Real isn't how you are made,' said the Skin Horse. 'It's a thing that happens to you.' - The Velveteen Rabbit
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#16
no, switching is about the mind more than anything, not just the body, that's possession. having the host "sit back" while the tulpa controls the body is a generally good goal for full-body possession, but switching should mean the tulpa is basically as good as the host were you guys never to switch back. right now I could live out the rest of my life never even thinking of Lumi again if I wanted to, he's just a tulpa like the others as far as his existence goes (title wise he's still the host ofc)
Hi I'm one of Lumi's tulpas! I like rain and dancing and dancing in the rain and if there's frogs there too that's bonus points.
All of my posts should be read at a hundred miles per hour because that's probably how they were written
Please talk to me https://community.tulpa.info/thread-ask-lumi-s-tulpas
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#17
It falls into the same set of concerns i have about How-to's from people who are new to the community: it pulls too much from the general groupthink that people first encounter. It's like picking up all your lessons about identity from the Jungian super-ego — too many of the old myths and attitudes are still lingering around and there are just better ideas that haven't won out over these ones yet.
My host/dad is [Foszae], but i mainly write for my own voice and distinct opinion. I was an accidental tulpa/soulbond, but grew into possession and am now an equal systemmate
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#18
Overall, I think this is a good guide that would help people learn how to switch. However, the only things holding this guide back are its inconsistencies in several places and it's not clear that the reader needs to be familiar with concepts in mediation before approaching this guide.

I like how this guide focuses on some of the mental aspects- it gives the host a tool they can use to help them dissociate, it tells the Tulpa to have a goal in mind while switching, and I like that you recommend the system recording their experiences too. However, most of the mental explanations are implied from meditation rather than stated explicitly, and I believe this is part of why this guide is confusing.

Within Wrote:Some level of parallel processing
Quick and dirty way to train this is to have your tulpa guide meditation sessions

Having the Tulpa act as a meditation guide is clever, however I find the terminology "Parallel Processing" to be confusing. According to Tulpa.info glossary:

Tulpa.info Wiki Wrote:Parallel Processing
When the tulpa can focus and work on something completely different from what the tulpamancer is focusing on.

Your statements conflicts with the Tulpa.info definition when you use a Tulpa acting as a meditation guide as an example. If the host is focused on their tulpa for meditation, and their tulpa is trying to help them dissociate via meditation, that wouldn't be a "completely different thing". A completely different thing would be a Tulpa talking to a friend while the host is writing a history essay at the exact same time. Perhaps you meant something like "ability to think on their own" or "already vocal"?

Within Wrote:For the host: first, relax, meditate, focus on your meditative focus.

This guide assumes that the host can already meditate based on how it's written, so go ahead and say that meditation is a requirement and they need to learn it before attempting your guide. The other thing I noticed is when reading this guide the first time, I found it really confusing. After a second read through, I feel like a light bulb went off. Since you already provide a recourse for meditation, it's okay to say the host has to learn how to meditate first. Speaking of which...

(03-20-2019, 03:58 AM)Ponytail Wrote: Also, I know you suggested they read a 164 page book on how to meditate, but nobody has time to dig through that. Perhaps at least give some basic instruction in how to meditate and what a meditative focus is? You're talking to a group of people who aren't into mysticism and religious practice, catch them up a little in reading instead of requiring such difficulty to get into your content.

At the time, I was intimidated by the idea of reading a book on meditation. A friendly summary or introduction may be extremely helpful for your readers, and they can use the book for more information if they want to learn more about the skill.

Within Wrote:Anything you can do right now, they would be able to do. Absolute trust is essential.
Within Wrote:This is not a hard requirement, but do realize that if they want to do something, they can do it and you need to be able to trust them to not do irresponsible things with your money, etc.
Within Wrote:The only thing you have to do is want control back and you will quickly find yourself back inside reality. However, this is no replacement for trust. Having a wholly complete trust in the tulpa you are switching with is vital.

These statements are conflicting with each other; Please pick a position. I have heard of cases where the system can switch without the current fronter's permission, so it's okay to point out that there are exceptions. If trust is really important for your system and by extension your guide, then it's okay to say that trust is a requirement.

At this point, I'm finding the use of "hard requirement" vs. "requirement" to be confusing. Your guide would work absolutely fine if you said everything was required or you can't guarantee this guide will work for the reader. I believe switching guides should never be "one size fits all", because doing so causes problems and forces the writer to cut out critical information and context necessary to understand the guide itself.

Within Wrote:If it helps, dissociate from the body, ...

I'm a little confused by what you mean by that. When I checked the text you linked for meditation, I noticed the term "dissolution" but not "dissociation". The word "dissociation" is only mentioned once, and it isn't defined.

Through our own switching attempts, we really struggled with understanding what "dissociation" meant. I originally posted before,

(01-06-2019, 08:34 PM)Ranger Wrote: I like that this guide emphasizes trust between the host and Tulpa, but there's not tons of emphasis on dissociation. Dissociation is a key step to switching, otherwise my host will just sit around and jump back into control if her attention is grabbed. I am very comfortable possessing my host, but we never achieved switching.

I have a better idea of what it means now, but at the time I found the concept extremely confusing and I got hung up on it.

It may be helpful if you define what "dissociation" is and how to achieve it explicitly, only because I feel like I needed that at the time. Feel free to personalize the definition since this term seems to vary from system to system.

Within Wrote:If you need to, you can regain control at literally any time you want. The only thing you have to do is want control back and you will quickly find yourself back inside reality.
Within Wrote:Don’t be afraid to lose consciousness in the background if you feel like it’s starting to happen. Your tulpa will take care of reality for you.

Does the first quote only apply if the host is conscious? If so, that may be worth pointing out before hand. At first, I was worried you were talking about possession and not switching.

On another note, it may be a good idea to talk about the host and Tulpa going through a confirmation process where everyone acknowledges both parties are trading spots again. This is because according to your guide, the Host could possibly step in and yank control whenever they want, and that may confuse the Tulpa or make them feel uncertain if they are still in control or not.

(03-20-2019, 03:58 AM)Ponytail Wrote: This is a psychological forum and a primarily psychological community. This is a given, delete it.

I agree with Ponytail's point, but I wonder if you were referencing meditation material in general, because... let's just say there's some amazing metaphysics stuff on mediation out there...

(03-20-2019, 03:58 AM)Ponytail Wrote: Reeee, subconscious.

If you replace "subconscious" with "unconscious" I think that would fix it. I personally don't care because I would describe something you do without thinking is "subconscious" too, but I understand that trying to be up to date with science is important.



My stance on the whole possession requirement is you should say that you learned possession before attempting to switch using your guide, and if the reader doesn't have possession down then you can't make any guarantees. There's nothing wrong with saying that learning possession was an important step to reaching switching for your system, and I don't have the expectation readers will follow any switching guide word-for-word.



(03-20-2019, 03:58 AM)Ponytail Wrote: This just... confuses me. Why are you saying this?

Um. Can you be "inside" reality? I mean, you're never really outside it. Whatever, this just sounds weird.

This is how I felt when I first read through this guide. Again, I would like to emphasize that understanding how to meditate is very important for understanding your guide.



I agree with Ponytails other points about being negative and being inconsistent with "this is easy" vs. "it took me five years to master this". Elaborating more on what switching feels like and clarifying this inconsistency will fix this problem. I think Fox makes some good points that while you do explain some of the mental stuff, further elaboration would be helpful.

(03-30-2019, 08:28 PM)Kopase Wrote: I believe some section should be added to mention the concept of predominance of thought. Switching is, ultimately, the process whereby the tulpa's thought processes become dominant and the default, with the host's being diminished or absent. Thus, I feel it is important for guides on the topic to include mention of how the host ultimately thinks slower/less while the tulpa thinks more. An obstacle both myself and others struggled to overcome is realizing that this process involves me (the host) to just stop thinking so damn much. Even a sentence or two referencing this process could be a worthwhile addition, I feel.

I think it may be worth taking the time explaining how mediation and switching go together. Again, this is one of those things I think someone who meditates would understand more or less off the bat where someone who has never heard of mediation or dissociation before will get really confused.



After you make these changes and add these clarifications, I will approve this submission for Guides under [Switching].
I'm Gray's/Cat_ShadowGriffin's Tulpa and I love Hippos! I also like forum games and chatting about stuff.
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#19
Overall, I think that this is a good guide with no massive problems. There were a few other problems that were already picked up by the other reviewers that I won’t repeat here, but I will tell you what 3 main items I think should be changed for this guide to be approved.

1. In your pre-requisite section, you posted a link to a book on meditation. Meditation is a broad topic with varying types for different goals. Instead of bulleting the link to a book I would write a few paragraphs on the type of meditation you would recommend for this method and how to do it. At a quick glance I can’t tell if you want the reader to do Mindfulness, Vipassana, etc, although later on it seems that you want the reader doing mindfulness.

2. Regarding ‘Parallel processing’, the other reviewers have already discussed why this is inaccurate. I’m reading between the lines here and guessing you meant a Tulpa who is sentient to a great degree. I would put this instead, because having a Tulpa who is sentient to a great degree is probably the only hard pre-requisite in all of this.

3. In the How to switch section, you instruct the host to meditate intensely. I understand this, because in order for this method to work the host has to stop thinking so much and focusing on one object is a great way to do this, however, as you instruct the tulpa to switch in you say ‘as your host pulls themself out’ without explaining how the host does this. You need to explain exactly how the host is supposed to switch out, especially whilst they are trying to maintain a meditative focus.

If you can action the 3 items I have highlighted I will approve this for guides.
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#20
Changing the definition of switching to make it easier comes off a bit disingenuous to me, I don't know. I just can't think of this as a switching guide, it seems more of a fronting guide than fully switching. I think if you replaced most of the instances of "switching" with "fronting" then it'd be more applicable. I just can't think of the host "hanging back" as being the same thing as "switching out." I think this would be an absolutely solid fronting guide, but not so much for switching, so I don't think I can approve it as one. If you could add more on how the host can go from "hanging back" to "switching out," then it would be more along the lines of a switching guide.
I'm Piano Soul, the "Star Man" of the Felight family. I'm a tulpa formed January 2017. My systemmates are Apollo, Luxio, & Indigo. Form images: 1 2
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