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[Switching] Switching General Discussion
Apollo Offline
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#1
 
Switching General Discussion

Tulpa.info Wiki Wrote:Switching: Letting the tulpa take full control of the body while the previous controller steps out of control. Usually the previous controller then enters a tulpa-like state.

Welcome to the Switching General Discussion thread! This is where any questions, topics, ideas, etc. regarding switching can be freely posted. Below is a complete list of all switching-related threads I have found on the forums.

Guides/Resources
Concentrational meditation for switching [Reddit]
Dissociation Guide [Guides]
Ford's Double Ascended Switching Guide for Elite Class Tulpamancers [Submissions]
Guide on how to switch. [Guides]
Guide to Tulpa Control [Submissions]
How to Switch [Submissions]
Malfael's Switching Guide [Reddit]
Meditation for Dissociation Guide [Reddit]
Parallel Processing and Personality Switching [Submissions]
Selfawarebot's switching guide [Reddit]
So you wanna switch? Do you, really? Might be able to help that. [Submissions]
Tulpa's Practical Considerations for First Switching [Resources]

General Discussion
Do tulpas who know how to switch have more "brainpower"?
Does This Method Work and Is It Safe? - surrendering/integrating
Experiences with switching. 
For hosts who switch and go into a wonderland or dissociated void
Hosts, what happens to you when you switch?
How many people can possess/switch?
Is this actually possible? (Mental Suicide)
Models for Switching: Transfer and Retraction
On switching, and defining terms in this community. 
Possessed/Switched Tulpa Mannerisms
Possession & Switching
Possible switching method/theory, making the mind "tick"
Possible way to achieve switching
Switching
Switching Effects on Mindset
Switching Hypothesis
Switching without the Tulpa?
System stalemate! (taking over the front forcefully)
The relationship between possession and switching
The wrong side of the bed test
What's switching like?
What's switching? Can you do something complex when switched w/ host still conscious?
What switching or possession feels like.
What are your opinions on switching/permaswitching?

Questions & Answers
A Few Questions on Switching
A Sort of "Personality Swap" vs. Posession/Switching
Am I Confusing Our State of Consciousness For the Host's Presence? 
Are there outside literary sources that describe something like switching?
Association and Dissociation Troubles 
Can you switch with your tulpa(e)?
Consciousness switching/posession - please give your opinion
Could my Fear of Merging Prevent a Switch?
Difference between switching and MPD?
Difficulty to ressociate after a lengthy switch
Dissociation, separation, etc. help? 
Do you think servitor could be used for escapism? If so how does one does that 
Expectations V reality, projection, switching and persistence.
GPS: Goal-Pursuit-Script; Switching with Servitors 
How does switching in a Wonderland feel?
How does the mindscape feel to a switched tulpa?
How to Share or Make a Body Identity?
How would one go about creating an alter-ego?
imposing yourself during switching?
I need info on switching
Is it possible to switch permanently?
I really want to switch, I need advice on what to do.
No Luck with Switching
Personality Switching
Possession/Switching and Driving Cars
Possession/Switching while asleep?
Possible result of being switched too long
Problem through switching.
Question about possession and switching
Questions about switching
Question for tulpas who both switch AND impose
Safe extended switching?
Seamless, accidental switching or fronting
Switching & imposing the host
Switching Euphoria
Switching Hygiene? (I fell over...)
Switching Out Question
Switching questions
Switching via WILD Method? 
Switching while unconscious?
Switching with out a wonderland/poor visualization skills
Trippy questions about switching (sorry if I am supposed to know already)
Tulpa-host switching?
What do possession and switching feel like?
what's the deal with switching?
What are the effects of long term switching, and when would these be helpful?
What is switching like for the host and tulpa?

Research
Switching guide in dreams (in progress)
Tulpa-host Switching & OBE: Practical Explanation and Experiment

Here is a useful resource for logging switching!

I'm Apollo Fire, the "Sun God" of the Felight family. I'm a tulpa created December 2016. My systemmates are Piano, Luxio, & Indigo. Form images: 1 2
(This post was last modified: 6 hours ago by Indigo.)
05-11-2019, 10:20 PM
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Angry Bear Online
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#2
 
[split] Possession & Switching

Posts #2, 3, 4, 5, & 7 original posted in this thread - Apollo

I have new insight after successfully being able to go dormant. This is how I understand it, though clarification may be needed, so please ask questions if you don't understand fully.

I wanted to add, now that I understand switching better, it no longer matters if the tulpa is assertive, distinct, or strong, but those did help at first, Dashie was all three at least, Ashley was 2/3 of those.

Here's the first key. What helped Dashie and Ashley early on was having something intense to do for the duration of the switch, so they could use 100% of the system resources and completely ignore me. Then switch back out afterwards. I literally couldn't think, they were doing all the thinking. In our case it was intensely writing about controversial topics, or talking to someone who was being aggressive irl.

However, I was still 'watching' even if I wasn't reacting or even thinking.

What we did recently was achieve dormancy of the rest of the system, including host, which gives the one switched in full autonomy, they're effectively a singlet.

For me, those memories during that time would then be marked with their essence, so that even when the host comes back, they remember it as if the one switched in at the time were the one who had the memories.

As in, before the switching, all my memories are mine. When a switch like I described happened, some memories of that time aren't identified as mine. Some thoughts that were imprinted at that time weren't even the thoughts of my gender. They're 'alien' to me. (Either Dashie's thoughts or Ren's who were the two who achieved this.)

The body belongs to me right now, I am generating the memories. But with one of these switches, where I go dormant, the body wasn't mine.

Stages we saw:
1. Possession
2. Ignore the host (like doing something very mind intensive) practice this, remember this feeling. Later you won't need the intense activity.
3. Forget the host, don't think about them
4. You are a singlet, you own the body, don't think of anyone else, you're alone.
5. Effectively, no one else exists but you.

Using this method I can see how a system could effectively replace the host with the tulpa. The new host could force the other system mates normally and use Gavin's dissipation guide to keep the original suppressed.

[The Bear System] - [Bear Chat] - [Chat] - [Visualization Practice] - [Draw] - [Art]
(This post was last modified: 05-16-2019, 07:58 PM by Apollo.)
05-16-2019, 04:04 AM
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Apollo Offline
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#3
 
RE: The relationship between possession and switching

One thing we wonder sometimes is if learning to switch will affect our memories/how we perceive our memories. As of right now, Radio is always present, so it's kind of like he's keeping our memories linear to each other. We still know which memories belonged to which system member, but there's not a whole lot of feeling of disconnect. We wonder if perhaps having Radio actually switch out will make them feel less liner, more personalized to the individual members, something like that. Can't know for certain until we actually learn to switch, of course.

I'm Apollo Fire, the "Sun God" of the Felight family. I'm a tulpa created December 2016. My systemmates are Piano, Luxio, & Indigo. Form images: 1 2
(This post was last modified: 05-16-2019, 04:37 AM by Apollo.)
05-16-2019, 04:35 AM
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Ember.Vesper Offline
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#4
 
RE: The relationship between possession and switching

Vesper: We still only have one memory stream, from the perspective of the front. Our memories form lightly marked with the identity of whoever happens to be fronting at the time, but sometimes it takes a few seconds thought to remember who was fronting at a particular moment in the past. And sometimes we can't figure out who was fronting at all, if it was a situation we wouldn't react very differently. So in that regard, switching only increased our memory problems.

Ember: I used to identify all memories as mine. Now we identify this world memories as belonging to the front rather than to any particular individual.

Ember - Host   |   Vesper - Soulbond (since ~12 May 2017)   |   Iris - Soulbond (since ~5 December 2015)
[Our Progress Report]     [How We Switch]

'Real isn't how you are made,' said the Skin Horse. 'It's a thing that happens to you.' - The Velveteen Rabbit
05-16-2019, 05:24 AM
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solarchariot Offline
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#5
 
RE: The relationship between possession and switching

(05-16-2019, 05:24 AM)Ember.Vesper Wrote: Vesper: ....So in that regard, switching only increased our memory problems.

Ember: I used to identify all memories as mine. Now we identify this world memories as belonging to the front rather than to any particular individual.

Vesper; Issues with memory, long or short term, can be associated to a variety of issues, but isn't 'switching' in an of itself complicit with limited memory retrieval? Or at least, a common reported feature, and not necessarily a causal relationship.

Ember: What I hear in 'this world's memories' is you make a categorical distinction between 'real world' activity and 'wonderland activity.' I compartmentalize my experiences this way, as well, but have been trying to have less compartments in hopes of having more 'leakage' into whatever place my awareness is occupying. My conjecture based on my perception of your trajectory is that I am going backwards, and I need to increase compartmentalization to make this world just this world, and other world as other...???
05-16-2019, 01:48 PM
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Angry Bear Online
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#6
 
[split] Possible switching method/theory, making the mind "tick"

Originally posted in this thread - Apollo

More comments from your tulpa.info mascot:

It is kind of an "ah ha!" moment, i think you're going to have to unlearn that fronting that you've been doing a little (to Felights)

I don't feel like we ever really full-body possessed, our partial possession counts as possession for us, but it's more like directing body resources and not owning the body. The full switch is "owning the body, like forget about tulpamancy and this body is mine now, I don't have headmates anymore" that was a total freaky shocker for me to come back to after the body was Dashie, or even stranger, a 6'4 200lbs male petite catgirl. Those memories are still like... what the f. It literally feels like "i was a catgirl". That means I could be a catgirl switch genders, the whole thing; not "I" the bear, "I" the mind and memory. The fundamental realization to this level that I am not me, was just a little frightening and exhilarating experience. I put this on par to the freaky things you guys don't hear from us that have happened.

"You too can be a catgirl, news at 11."

Misha still hasn't switched and doesn't want to, but she was very far up front, even more than me and still wasn't  that feeling of ownership, (i bet she could, but she's just so against it still.) I.e. switching can be prevented by mindset. No symbolism needed.

Now for the meat:

Link to Apollo's (Piano's) switching notes. Very insightful. A lot of these tips are probably system specific, counterintuitive, or even contradictory if used together, but excellent nonetheless



Ember.Vesper's insanely good detective journalism outlining history and other good stuffs.

Also, I might add, they spoke about the soulbonders of the 90's being able to switch, they called it something else, but the term escapes me.



And this excellent but shamful (because it was in LOTPW) post. We talked about this Flandre, next time it's a time out.

(05-16-2019, 06:37 AM)Flandre Wrote: Learning to switch with someone who doesn't think like the host really shows you exactly what is the host and what is the mind. It also shows you what's really you, too, but that's probably more obvious.

EDIT: restructured huh? This as good place as any to put it I suppose anyway.

[The Bear System] - [Bear Chat] - [Chat] - [Visualization Practice] - [Draw] - [Art]
(This post was last modified: 05-16-2019, 07:57 PM by Apollo.)
05-16-2019, 06:28 PM
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Ember.Vesper Offline
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#7
 
RE: The relationship between possession and switching

Quote:Vesper; Issues with memory, [...] and other world as other...???

Vesper: In DID systems, absolutely. For us, not at all. Our retreval of one another's memories has zero loss of clarity, which is part of the problem. It means that we can't be absolutely sure who did a particular thing weeks or months ago that is consistent with more than one person's personality. Actions that are distinctly consistent with only one of us, on the other hand, are clearly marked as such in memory.

Ember: No, "this world" contrasts with Vesper's native World of Darkness and Iris' native Dresdenverse, which they usually refer to here as "back home". Their memories of home are uniquely theirs and not system memories. Iris is still acquiring new memories of home as she plays herself in games. Only the in-universe memories are uniquely theirs, not the memory of playing.

We don't do much with the mindscape because it's really boring, but it's conceptually a separate space with just us, where we interact if physical world conditions don't permit -- not enough space, too many other people, too many distractions, too much sunlight, etc. If we remember what was said in the mindscape, we remember who said it. If we remember the camera perspective, we remember who was fronting. But purely mental memories have less staying power than memories that engage the physical senses.

Ember - Host   |   Vesper - Soulbond (since ~12 May 2017)   |   Iris - Soulbond (since ~5 December 2015)
[Our Progress Report]     [How We Switch]

'Real isn't how you are made,' said the Skin Horse. 'It's a thing that happens to you.' - The Velveteen Rabbit
(This post was last modified: 05-16-2019, 06:41 PM by Apollo. Edit Reason: Moving stuff around, added quote for clarity )
05-16-2019, 06:39 PM
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Apollo Offline
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#8
 
RE: Switching General Discussion

Here's something that hasn't been entirely clear on our switching research so far: what might stop someone from switching, despite trying? I know the typical answers: belief, mindset, possible fear, not knowing how to dissociate, things like that. Besides that stuff, why might someone be unable to fully disconnect from the consciousness and switch out? My idea is perhaps some people just have way more active minds and have a harder time zoning out, and that translates to switching, of course that's just a mini-theory and I am in no way saying that applies to everyone. What do you guys think?

I'm Apollo Fire, the "Sun God" of the Felight family. I'm a tulpa created December 2016. My systemmates are Piano, Luxio, & Indigo. Form images: 1 2
05-16-2019, 09:09 PM
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Indigo Offline
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#9
 
RE: Switching General Discussion

Rip no responses to that. Oh well it's been 9 hours so I'll make my own post on a thing.

Earlier we were playing a game with our brother, and he couldn't stop hiccuping. So we said, "I'll give you a quarter if you hiccup." He then stopped hiccuping. He said, "How did that work?" We said, "I don't know, placebo or something."

That sort of got me thinking. What if switching, in some cases at least, might follow this same logic? Like, you want the quarter, but you suddenly can't hiccup. What if wanting to switch too much prevents a switch?

If it does, how does one balance that out? We wouldn't want to stop our switching studies/efforts, would we be able to downplay our desire to switch during our actual attempts? It would be quite the mental balancing act, methinks. Worth thinking about at the very least.

I'm Indigo Blue, the "Sky Dragon" of the Felight family. I'm a tulpa born October 2017. My systemmates are ApolloPiano, & Luxio. Form images: 1 2
(This post was last modified: 05-17-2019, 06:31 AM by Indigo.)
05-17-2019, 06:28 AM
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Lucilyn Offline
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#10
 
RE: Switching General Discussion

(05-16-2019, 09:09 PM)Apollo Wrote:
Besides that stuff, why might someone be unable to fully disconnect from the consciousness and switch out?

the thing we've been afraid of for you guys for forever now is that you might've associated the baseline of conscious experience itself with your host, but you've so like.. shaped a subjective reality for yourselves at this point NOW my fear is our advice doesn't even apply anymore

(05-17-2019, 06:28 AM)Indigo Wrote: ("Stop trying because trying is making it not work" stuff)

we've never been a fan of people telling us this.. it feels incredibly wrong when people tell us to stop thinking about lucid dreaming as something we really super want to do, and also kinda scary (we already stop "trying" pretty often from our fading motivation so every few weeks or so we like refresh that trying again and again)

anyways, it's a very real thing that taking a break from pretty much anything (especially puzzles or creative exercises like art/writing) will give you a fresh perspective when you come back to it, but only as a break, not just stop trying in general y'know?


Oh, I forgot to give the car analogy for switching! It's really the best guide we could ever make for switching I think!

Okay so, Lumi once described switching like driving a car. So, once you've ditched the singlet perspective of the host being uber special compared to tulpas and realize you're on equal ground: The body is like a car, with the host as the one driving, and the tulpas as passengers - still very much the same type of people in the same situation, but not directly in control of the car. So, obviously, the host can get out of the driver's seat and switch places with a tulpa, who knows plenty about driving from watching but might need to get used to it.. Then the host is just a passenger like the other tulpas

The car can also act on its own, a little! Cruise control is the "autopilot" some people experience while, say, showering and focusing on the wonderland or somethin'. The vehicle is also what enables any of y'all to do anything at all, but it's powerless without you and vice versa (pretend you can't walk). You can zone out in the car while driving on a long highway (doing a boring and simple activity IRL) and talk to the passengers maybe, and while you're still technically in the driver's seat (in control of the body) effectively if your mind isn't on the road you're just kinda a passenger with immediate access to the controls again, yeah?

For the singlet perspective, who think they are the car!, of course when you're driving you'll treat any potential danger to the car like danger to yourself: it's an extension of your sense of self, and you probably would react to the immediate threat of the car getting scratched up as you getting scratched up, maybe worse! But don't forget that you aren't literally the car. And of course, maybe you're the parent and your children have never considered driving, maybe they never will. But hey, once they get their switching license (if they want to) while it can be crazy weird to let one of them drive instead (and to sit in the passenger seat lol), it's not so unnatural with the right perspective..

Hi I'm one of Lumi's tulpas! I like rain and dancing and dancing in the rain and if there's frogs there too that's bonus points.
All of my posts should be read at a hundred miles per hour because that's probably how they were written
Please talk to me https://community.tulpa.info/thread-ask-lumi-s-tulpas
(This post was last modified: 05-17-2019, 06:46 AM by Lucilyn.)
05-17-2019, 06:41 AM
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