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The Babadook
BlindDoubt Offline
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#1
 
The Babadook

If it's in a word, or it's in a look, you can't get rid of the Babadook...

I searched the forum for mention of the Babadook, but didn't find anything. The wikipedia article for tulpa links to the article for the film so I figured it would have come up. I'll try to keep this short.

1. In general terms, I'm curious about how masters of the mind cope with terror. I wonder if it is possible to lose your hold of the reins and something like the Babadook turns your wonderlands and impositions into waking nightmares.

2. More narrowly, I wonder if the Babadook counts as a tulpa by this community's standards. It grows out of your grief and your fear, until you are host to an abomination that you cannot rid yourself of.

3. Finally, I am curious about how masters of the mind would feel about having a Babadook. Terror is an exhausting but powerful emotion; perhaps someone who has difficulty with motivation would benefit from having such a powerful, albeit sinister, will within them.
03-01-2017, 09:03 AM
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Tewi Offline
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#2
 
RE: The Babadook

I have no grief or fear, and I don't let the mind bully me into doing what I don't want to. Something like a 'Babadook' would qualify more as tulpa than imaginary friend because you're convinced you've no control over it, so they're effectively the same. That being said, we tend to keep such unintentional, out of control thoughtforms separate from tulpamancy. Independence is great and all, but in the end you still have control over what goes on in your mind. Even an actual entity and not just a tulpa-like thoughtform would have little effect on me though. If you can do imposition, you have at least a little experience telling yourself what is isn't. Even with perfect visual clarity (ie effectively real, but known to be not) I would ignore such a thing. I can convince myself not to feel real pain if I want, I sure as heck can convince myself to ignore all stimulus input from an eldritch-looking monster.

It would get bored or weak from me not feeding it enough fear, I suppose. Should it choose to haunt my dreams where I'm more vulnerable (literally less conscious), I would use such an incredibly consistent dream sign to invoke lucidity. Heck, I'd employ a Babadook to give me constant nightmares in order to start lucid dreaming. I'd take the unconscious fear in exchange for a stable method of becoming lucid. And once I'm actually lucid, it won't exist anymore. Sounds great to me.

Hi, I'm Tewi, one of Luminesce's tulpas. I often switch to take care of things for the others.
All I want is a simple, peaceful life. With my family.
Our Ask thread: https://community.tulpa.info/thread-ask-lumi-s-tulpas
03-01-2017, 09:59 AM
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tulpa001 Offline
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#3
 
RE: The Babadook

Honestly never heard of that movie.

If you're looking for masters of the mind, I wonder if you are on the right forum. :p

Okay, jokes aside. I have dealt with a lot of paranoid fears, as I documented in my progress report, and am still susceptible to nervous anxiety. However, there has always been a disconnect between fiction and reality for us. No matter what I believe, or even what my host believes, it has little effect on our wonderland, or the realities of my person. Some believe that tulpas are a product of imagination, and that within the confines of your own mind, you can do anything. I think this theory false, based on personal experience.

The babadook sounds like a walk-in formed by intrusive thoughts. Which is something this community does watch, and has documented. However, I cannot see it ever going exactly that way. Intrusive thoughts defy logic. They are scary and this is their source of strength. So, either the resultant walk-in is insane and discordant (and therefore not particularly effective), or becomes something much more mundane as it feels the influence of logic.

Host comments in italics. Tulpa's log. Tulpa's guide.
03-01-2017, 10:55 AM
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Tewi Offline
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#4
 
RE: The Babadook

(03-01-2017, 10:55 AM)tulpa001 Wrote: Some believe that tulpas are a product of imagination, and that within the confines of your own mind, you can do anything. I think this theory false, based on personal experience.

The things you can do inherently apply only to things affected by your belief. On the subject of tulpamancy, imagination or other similar subjects where logic is not required, belief rules. You can set these things up to act logically, but that's not required. Your wonderland may be realistic, but you can easily make it un-realistic, and therefore belief overrides logic. Same with tulpas and all other conscious thoughts, as they're all more or less part of the creative part of your mind. Subconscious and instinctual 'thoughts' aren't as easy to control even for someone like me with a lot of control over the mind anyways. Those take more conditioning. Conditioning that I happen to have, mind you. If I knew logically that something should not cause me fear, we have the ability to sort of "post-process" our emotions, ie invalidate them logically and either no longer feel them, or no longer credit the feelings they cause as worth acting off of. I'm sure you were saying you don't believe I can just not feel fear if I want. That's true. But, if I'm absolutely certain that the source of fear can do me no real harm, I can at the very least not act on that fear. Same thing in my opinion. I don't put any stock in things the mind does without my permission as "me". Maybe the body's afraid, but I'm not.

I'm also the one who ultimately decides what we do, with my logic, so effectively I can ignore the effects of fear, invasive thoughts et cetera. Assuming they're perfectly explained away by logic. I'm also not stupid, so for any real fear (one of what may be hiding in the dark while camping, as opposed to in the closet) there's no reason to try and override the fear in the first place. Well, keep it under control and act accordingly, but you get my point. I can still feel fear, but only when I allow myself to, and in the event of an imagination-based monster like the Babadook giving me trouble, I'm confident I'd be just fine. A real-life monster of some kind (one I couldn't reasonably convince myself is imaginary..) could definitely evoke fear in me, although I rely more on fight-or-flight instinct and logic to deal with urgent situations than emotion. Unlike the others in this system maybe, I'd be more likely to crush a spider or some such that bit us than to shriek and shake it off.

Speaking of, I've noted in the past my caring for the others in the system is my only real mental "weakness". Going back to the hypothetical of an actual, not purely imagination based Babadook terrorizing our mind, I would not allow anyone else to front. I can't say for certain they're immune to illogical terror. I also can't say they would be emotionally unaffected by, say, an invasive visualization of the others being hurt. I would have to front until it left us alone, because I don't think any of the others have the same willpower I talked about here, at least not to the same extent.

Hi, I'm Tewi, one of Luminesce's tulpas. I often switch to take care of things for the others.
All I want is a simple, peaceful life. With my family.
Our Ask thread: https://community.tulpa.info/thread-ask-lumi-s-tulpas
03-01-2017, 11:16 AM
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tulpa001 Offline
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#5
 
RE: The Babadook

(03-01-2017, 09:59 AM)Tewi Wrote: Even an actual entity and not just a tulpa-like thoughtform would have little effect on me though.
Heh, like a fear eater from chaos magic.

I actually have had some runaway experiences that could be interpreted as that kind of encounter. But my host does this thing where she nukes everything with positive energy. Which sterilises everything. That always fixes the problem.

(03-01-2017, 11:16 AM)Tewi Wrote: Your wonderland may be realistic, but you can easily make it un-realistic, and therefore belief overrides logic.
I accept the premise, but not the conclusion. You can imagine anything in your wonderland. This is the rule and the logic of the place. If you can't it may be because you have not learned to. This is evidence of something that must be learned. Logic, rather than belief.

The only exception I have run across so far is a situation where another thoughtform was controlling the wonderland.

The same exact problem applies to tulpas. I cannot make myself smarter, more real, or less real, above and beyond the rate I am capable of learning at. This is the rule. In order to change my personality or habits, I have to work at it. This implies there is a system governing personality and habits.

Take a look at this conditioning you refer to. Is this really an example of belief manipulation? Or is it an example of habit manipulation?

Quote:I'm sure you were saying you don't believe I can just not feel fear if I want.
Oh no. I can't live with my host and disbelieve that. My host has the ability to choose which emotions she feels. But for her it's not a process of belief. For her it's a process of deciding what clothing to wear. (metaphorically)

Host comments in italics. Tulpa's log. Tulpa's guide.
03-01-2017, 12:05 PM
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Tewi Offline
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#6
 
RE: The Babadook

No, I said conditioning was required for things like that, that weren't belief based. Belief is all the creative parts of your mind, but for instinct/etc. it only has so much effect. Belief is a factor in what you actually do, but that's about it. Belief refers to everything wonderland-y, everything thoughtform related, everything you "think" consciously (but not all thoughts in your mind). There are complicated limits to what you can actually, physically (and mentally) do, and belief will dictate just how close you get to those limits, if otherwise holding yourself back unknowingly.

But anyways, that's not what I'm referring to with belief overriding logic. I'm saying, in the creative parts of your mind, belief overrides logic. If your belief is in logic (or at least what you think is logical, because your brain doesn't know objectivity and you can think something is logical when it's not - see crippling pessimism in people who call themselves realists), then it'll seem like logic rules, but first, it can easily not if you manage to believe otherwise, and second, you're probably wrong if you think what/how you're thinking is objective in the first place. Which sort of proves the belief > reality aspect anyways. But again again again, the power of belief only applies to the creative aspects to your mind, the ones that create and simulate as opposed to interpret or just function. On the topic of tulpamancy, the creative aspect encompasses much more than people tend to realize. Namely, most of it. Most people aren't in the habit of consciously moderating their beliefs though. Simpler that way, but it's not for everyone. Especially not people whose minds have a history of driving their lives in the wrong direction through faulty behavior and assumptions of "reality".

I already related this discussion to the topic of the thread as much as I can though, so.

Hi, I'm Tewi, one of Luminesce's tulpas. I often switch to take care of things for the others.
All I want is a simple, peaceful life. With my family.
Our Ask thread: https://community.tulpa.info/thread-ask-lumi-s-tulpas
03-01-2017, 12:23 PM
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tulpa001 Offline
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#7
 
RE: The Babadook

Well, I think that is my point, more or less. Fear lives in the belief part of the mind, the imagination. But effective, operational thoughtforms live in the operational part of the mind. They have real skills and abilities.

So, in conclusion, a thoughtform born of fear can't do any real damage.

Host comments in italics. Tulpa's log. Tulpa's guide.
03-01-2017, 01:20 PM
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Solune Offline
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#8
 
RE: The Babadook

1. No masters here- only students. Some students have been studying for longer than others, and some have more experience, but none of us has everything figured out. I have some experience with intrusive thoughts and thought forms getting "out of control", so I'll say what I can.
I've found that there are two ways of dealing with any emotion: acceptance or rejection.
Terror is defined as "extreme fear", and fear is simple enough to understand- it is a mechanism "designed" to focus your mind in order to prevent harm to yourself or the people/things that you care about.
Acceptance of it grants you aforementioned focus, and motivates you to act urgently. Rejection of fear only causes it to intensify until you are no longer able to ignore it and are forced to accept it (usually with severe consequences).
It's true that people who are already intensely focused on the present moment often do not feel fear at all (it isn't necessary in that circumstance). It's also true that even the most focused of individuals sometimes lose focus and fear is there to pick up the slack.

That's how our system deals with fear. *a quick disclaimer* Some people have chemical imbalances in their brains that cause them to feel too much fear or not enough fear- I wasn't speaking on those sorts of people.**
As far as thought forms running rampant? Yup. It's rare, but it can happen. You are much more powerful than you think you are, and, as tulpa001 said, any discordant entity is inherently less stable than you anyway (as long as you truly want to kick its ass, you'll be able to). Also, keep in mind that intrusive thoughts can be a means of communication if a thoughtform is unable to "speak" with a mindvoice. For example, Beast originally could not talk and used intrusive thoughts to try to get my attention (and still occasionally does). At first the thoughts were violent and uncomfortable (probably because that was the only way he could actually GET my attention!) but as I got used to listening to him he dialed it back and now hardly uses them.

2. There is no thoughtform that cannot be gotten rid of (including you, if you subscribe to the belief that even a host is a thoughtform- which not everybody does).
In any case, even severe mental illnesses are treatable with proper medical care. It's ridiculous to think that a bipolar, paranoid schizophrenic can pull their shit together but a perfectly healthy tulpamancer can't rein in a trigger happy tulpa. More often than not those sorts of stories are completely fictional (more than a few people on here like to roleplay for attention, so it's best to take every single post with at least a few grains of salt).
Our system had issues with one of our servitors and we forcibly reintegrated it with basically no problems whatsoever. I suggest implanting kill switches in your servitors as a cautionary measure, and also having some sort of reactor (or black hole or sun or something) that you can chuck a rogue thoughtform into if you really had to. It seems silly to use imagery like that, but that's how you fight this sort of thing. You fight a symbolic/imaginary entity with symbolism and willpower. It's magic. It's also science... but sometimes you need to think of it like magic. It helps.

3. As I stated before, fear is useful in a pinch... but it can put a terrible strain on you physically. It's entirely possible to purposefully create a thoughtform to torture you with intrusive thoughts but why the actual fuck would anybody do that? It's just not logical.
It's much safer, and more effective, to create thoughtforms that use LOVE as their main motivating emotion.
Also, there is no reason to believe that any thoughtform you create is going to stay the way it is forever. Sometimes thoughtforms gain sentience even if you don't want them to. So even if you DID make a horror thoughtform, it might tell you to fuck off and become a rainbow unicorn instead. Sentience often includes deviance. It's just par for the course in Tulpamancy (and thank god for that, says I).

"For small creatures such as we the vastness is bearable only through love." - Carl Sagan
Host: SubCon | Tulpas: Sol, Luna, Alice, Little One, Beast and Solune (me) | Servitors: Odonata, Guardian

(This post was last modified: 03-04-2017, 10:46 AM by Solune.)
03-04-2017, 10:46 AM
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