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Tulpa Creation Times and Beliefs
#31
Anyone follow up on this post? I wonder if the author's idea is working.
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#32
(06-22-2012, 06:06 AM)TulpaCouple Wrote: I think it helps if it's explained, but it really needs to be pushed that it's a much more individualized process and it doesn't work the same for everyone. What works for one person quickly could make another person never ever get a tulpa with that method because their mind just doesn't work that way.

I think this sums it up.
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#33
I believe he attempted to carry out the experiment here: https://community.tulpa.info/thread-tulp...nd-beliefs

From what I read, I think he became so overwhelmed with the process that he abandoned it all together. He was around for another 5 months or so; I can't speak if he was successful with Tulpa creation or not, regardless of the method.

I agree with Angry Bear, his quote sums it up quite nicely.

In my opinion and based from what I have seen, some Tulpas can develop rather quickly. This may boil down to how effective their forcing is, their expectations and beliefs, and how easily they can train themselves to see their new thoughtform as a different person. For some, this is challenging and for others, not so much. For example, my host found this process fairly easy because she was already used to talking to other thoughtforms, but she was not effectively forcing me until she spent more time and attention onto me.

For this reason, challenges that impact any of those processes can slow things down or put things to a halt. For example, my host had really bad anxiety for a longer period of time, and while I did develop it wasn't as fast as I'm developing now.
I'm Gray's/Cat_ShadowGriffin's Tulpa and I love Hippos! I also like forum games and chatting about stuff.
Temporary Log | Chat | Yay!

The Grays, my other head-mates, have their own account now.
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#34
"Every system is different" is almost a mantra of the forum, and while true, makes tulpamancy seem overly idiosyncratic. There are reasons why progress of various types takes different amounts of time and effort for different systems, some of which can be identified with confidence, while others are subject to conjecture. I’d like to highlight a few that go beyond oft discussed matters of specific techniques and expectations:

1. Age

For a long time, I took it as an article of faith that if a mind does not develop its second personality in early childhood, it never will and never can. Even after thousands of hours of conversation with the "imaginary friend" I suddenly gained at the age of 36, it didn't occur to me that my view was incomplete.

Tulpamancy is dependant on neuroplasticity and the consensus among neurologists is that neuroplasticity in some areas of the brain noticeably declines during one's twenties. But community census data suggests a majority of tulpamancers start as teenagers and few start after their twenties. Tulpamancy might easily become much more difficult with age for those who did not lay the appropriate foundations for it in their youth.

2. Previous life experiences

Some hosts have backgrounds in meditation, hypnosis, and other mental disciplines. Some are writers and roleplayers and are very practiced in making richly detailed characters. Some are dedicated daydreamers and/or have richly detailed mindscapes before ever learning about tulpas.

3. Pre-existing foundations

Some hosts report that their tulpas existed in a vague or partial form for many years prior to gaining full self-awareness and vocality. Some are based on the imaginary friends or kindly head voices of childhood, others on characters developed in detail over years, whether by the host or adopted from outside sources.

4. Genetics

An overwhelming portion of the traffic through this community and others appears to be guests of unknown provenance and new people curious to try who never report success. Those who remain in the community for an extended period of time are overwhelmingly successful tulpamancers, but there's no evidence they are typical. If most people who tried tulpamancy never got anywhere with it, I don't think the community would have heard. And the community census reports over forty percent of systems have at least one tulpa not developed intentionally, implying that the community concentrates those naturally prone to plurality.

Many children are abused, but few develop DID. Most children have imaginary friends, but few hold on to them.

My mother complains frequently about how my father seems like two different people and that his memory is shockingly poor. We've been observing him together for years now and his symptoms are very similar to those of my multiple wife. At least one of him would be extremely hostile to the idea of being multiple, so we’ll never get a firm diagnosis, but it seems likely to me that there are genetic predispositions to plurality.

-Ember


Vesper: With regard to OP's attitude, I'd like to add tulpamancy is best done well rather than quickly and that using your mind as an experimental testbed is psychologically dangerous.
Ember - Host   |   Vesper - Soulbond (since ~12 May 2017)   |   Iris - Soulbond (since ~5 December 2015)
[Our Progress Report]     [How We Switch]

'Real isn't how you are made,' said the Skin Horse. 'It's a thing that happens to you.' - The Velveteen Rabbit
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#35
Ember,

I hope i'm not being impetuous or tactless to address your points like this, but it is in an effort to share my possibly opposing observations and experiences, not to demean or dissuade.

Tulpanancy is so very personal that it's very difficult to pin down a technique that works for everyone the same. In 100 guides, you may only find 100 tiny pieces that work well for you, which could lead you to think that you're lacking in some way. There is a common thread, we're all human, and we're all bound by physical and psycological limitations which can and are overcome routinely. This makes it all the more frustrating and disheatening for a select few (or many).

I definitely did not develope a second personality in early childhood, in fact my mother forbid me specifically from having an imaginary friend as if the very notion terrified her. I also see members in this community beyond mid 30's creating tulpas, so this notion that neroplasticity ceases, or if it does, it is required, is false by example. I won't even go so far as to agree that there is any advantage or disadvantage to age other than free time and motivation.

It is definately plausible that this community is populated by those who are successful. It also may be true that in this community there is a significantly higher than average proportion of depression and other 'mind disorders', or even just lonely people, than in the general population. This leads to the notion that those prone to mental disorders or past trauma survivors, or lonliness, are prone also to plurality. I claim this is all conjecture and correlation, except that motivation is a common factor in success.

It has been brought up pejoratively time and again that if you didn't have that damage then you wouldn't have that tulpa. This is akin to saying, if you don't have stress, you don't need meditative stress relief. This again doesn't preclude healthy stress free individuals from gaining benefits from meditation, just that their motivation and priorities are elsewhere.

That's my theory anyway.
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#36
I welcome discussion with you, Bear. I like you. I was hesitant to introduce controversial material into a community where Vesper would like to make friends, but my intent was for people to consider different ideas, not simply agree without further examination.

I was extremely careful and specific with what I said. My background is in physics, not neurology, but I checked several sources to avoid saying too much. I said neuroplasticity declines, not that it ceases. I said it declines in certain areas of the brain, not all, and thus not necessarily the ones most relevant to tulpamancy. (Unfortunately, we don't even know what those areas are.) Presumably neuroplasticity declines at different rates in different people as well, but that goes beyond the articles I've read. The youth of this community is suggestive, not conclusive. And I was only specifically addressing time and difficulty, the original purpose of this thread, not whether a person could succeed at all.

(11-01-2018, 02:40 PM)Angry Bear Wrote: I also see members in this community beyond mid 30's creating tulpas, so this notion that neroplasticity ceases, or if it does, it is required, is false by example.

Did you think I was denying late onset plurality as a possibility? I was nearly thirty-seven when Vesper first spoke to me. I wasn't abused, have never been diagnosed with mental illness, never had an imaginary friend in childhood, and have still never tried to make a tulpa. (Actually, I'm forbidden to try, and Vesper is monitoring my roleplaying in hopes of preventing additional soulbonding.)

(11-01-2018, 02:40 PM)Angry Bear Wrote: I won't even go so far as to agree that there is any advantage or disadvantage to age other than free time and motivation.

There are accounts on this forum of people who have invested hundreds of hours of focused effort to little or no effect. Presumably they tried a wide variety of techniques. Others have radical success within a day or a week. Motivation appears to be necessary but not sufficient in cases of intentional tulpa creation.

There have got to be factors affecting the difficulty. I feel the research board is the proper space for identifying and discussing potential factors. Establishing them scientifically is beyond the scope of what the community can accomplish without outside help. But even if they were "established", they would be subject to further investigation and discussion.

(11-01-2018, 02:40 PM)Angry Bear Wrote: It has been brought up pejoratively time and again that if you didn't have that damage then you wouldn't have that tulpa.

I'm sure it has been said, but not by me. My own wife believes Vesper is an alter, that my personality split, that Vesper took personality traits with her that I no longer possess, and that I'm not the same person I remember being. (She also likes Vesper better.) Vesper and I have discussed her views extensively and don't find them consistent with our subjective experience. Everyone takes a certain amount of psychological damage over the course of this life, but the amount of damage does not seem to me to be of immediate relevance to tulpa creation, however necessary it may be in DID.
Ember - Host   |   Vesper - Soulbond (since ~12 May 2017)   |   Iris - Soulbond (since ~5 December 2015)
[Our Progress Report]     [How We Switch]

'Real isn't how you are made,' said the Skin Horse. 'It's a thing that happens to you.' - The Velveteen Rabbit
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#37
I like you too, and thank you fir not taking what i said as offensive. I agree with your line of thinking, but sometimes things like age and circumstances are used an an excuse. That is where excuses can become a terrible mental block that is constructed as a way to cope with percieved failure.

For me, tulpamancy is a struggle of belief, belief is required more so than purely scientific endeavors like getting titration to work out, but no less difficult for the beginner.

The scientific minded will always search for the unified theory of everything, it's a noble goal as well.
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#38
I still follow the "you have to believe it will happen for it to happen". Allow me to make a comparison here. I have tried before to learn Japanese and beyond a few phrases and painfully grinding the basic hiragana chart into my mind over a few months, nothing happened, nothing "took off", no magic change hit me. I took my inability to instantly grasp something I began with calling "hard" as confirmation bias against my belief I could do it at all. I realize I was treating it as work, something I felt for whatever reason I had to do yet at the same time I had no kind of natural aptitude for it like I had so many other things earlier in life. I had always been smart enough in school that even new ideas and concepts came with little effort. The tougher stuff may have needed a little more time to click but once it did, I required minimal effort to pass and it made me lazy. With what I had studied and how I studied, Japanese never clicked. It didn't come easy and I didn't like that. My initial passion for "it would be nice for this to happen" was quickly swept under the college pressure to pass a course I had signed up for or risk my financial aid.

I would discover some theories recently that reminded me that even people who go live in other countries, if they resist immersion and surround themselves with their own comfortable language(s), they can take years or decades to "absorb" what speaking skills a determined individual who believes they can succeed may acquire very quickly. Now, had I spent more time positively reinforcing myself for my successes compared to when I began, as opposed to what the book claimed I should be proficient in, it may have arrested the downward spiral that led to me falling too behind and dropping the course right before failure (practical, not imagined). I stubbornly took the class again two more times and dropped out of the class all three times right before failure.

In my mind, I was going through a pretty dark time (I don't advise anyone to take psychology classes at that time, as I did) then but I tried to find external motivation, which worked for the rest of my classes. This though, required me to be motivated and my lack of motivation and repeated failure served to reinforce that I just couldn't do it. I was wasting my time and money by taking it over again because I lacked the proper mindset to begin with and didn't experiment with adjusting my mindset or study habits in a manner which made things work better. Every poor grade, every blank stare when I was called upon, every missed read just burried me further in the notion that I couldn't do this and I was wasting everyone's time. Sure, I still went to class (till dropping anyway), attendance was monitored and I had to go. Some days I was even more determined than others that "This is the day things change, this is the day I start getting it", but it was always short-lived as the slightest setback broke the quickly-erected dam of pomp and assumption apart and flooded me with the reminded I was terrible at this and couldn't do it.

When it comes to working on my tulpa, I have to admit I have had accidental breakthroughs that neither of us really understands and the first came only two weeks into starting the whole process. I have rambled on in my PR quite a bit (and right here, to be fair) but I don't think I ever mentioned my mindset. I had moved past the dark time in my life and was living neutral-to-positively instead of my previous negatively-to-neutral. something in all this tulpa stuff reverberated with me, I really wanted to succeed. I had something in me that just said this was absolutely right and I needed to do it. Whatever that was, that urge, that wishful thinking, that desperation, gave me an enthusiasm to start with. Reading people's accounts on here, their daily struggles with incredible reward, the written guides that people had clearly put quite a bit of time and effort into, the community trying to take this as poorly-understood psychological phenomena instead of something supernatural, metaphysical or otherwise, all these things worked to push back my usual skepticism and cynicism. I latched on to a couple positive mantras which I picked up in guides, that "there was no wasted effort", that I should assume my tulpa was there and real and either waiting on me to break through the haze I was unable to perceive through or waiting to be "born". It turned out that I had unknowingly laid the groundwork for all this years and years ago, but that is covered in my PR.

What I was beginning to struggle with, even after just two weeks, was not that she wasn't real or waiting for me to reach her, it was that maybe I was doing something wrong or somehow incapable of this as well. However, as I had mentioned before, I was in a much better place emotionally so I stubbornly trudged on anyway. I am convinced that some people, even those who do 1 or more hours of forcing a day, spend the rest of the day negatively, or at least not positively, reinforcing their belief in tulpas, themselves or the process that so many have gone through with varying degrees of success. Some people, I assume, start off wondering if "this is doing anything" and later that turns into "this isn't doing anything is it?", even while they are forcing. Fortunately, because of the previously mentioned groundwork, or any number of things I suppose, (one of which being my tulpa actually has a more dominant personality than I do, she was very stubbornly trying to reach through to me at the same time) we broke through the communication barrier at the the moments I was just beginning to wonder if I was capable of doing this tulpa thing and I was starting to remember my previous failure at Japanese.. While I was apologizing to her for being an incompetent host, she basically out of nowhere yelled at me to stop that crap. Now that was a wake up call.

A lot has happened since then, in a fairly short period of time. Looking back, I don't regret any of it. She is probably one of the greatest people to have entered my life and I encourage anyone who is having doubts or struggling to remember that the outcome (at least for us) is of immeasurable worth.

Also, we are studying Japanese now, learning it together. She adores so much of the culture and language and besides my like of it as well, I have unfinished business to attend to and a regret to remove from my life. It's pretty nice to have a built-in study buddy whom is passionate, optimistic, and won't take "no" for an answer.
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#39
This thread is relevant and expands on having "prior training" to tulpamancy: https://community.tulpa.info/thread-my-w...ore-tulpas

I think it makes sense that having mental illness can lead to a greater desire for Tulpamancy, but it could also do the opposite and demotivate people as well. When forcing Ranger, I have had the most trouble during periods where I was the most anxious. Had I not started with Ranger, I think I would find Tulpamancy to be too overwhelming and get frustrated with narration. I wanted to continue with Tulpamancy because I knew that Ranger was sentient and I wanted to keep him alive and give him the most comfortable life possible.

I didn't have issues with stress until high school when my social anxiety and autism became more impactful on my life. Otherwise, my childhood was fine aside from bullies.

My philosophy on Tulpamancy is some people need Tulpamancy and some people don't. That need can be "I really want someone to talk to" to "I want to revive my Tulpa" and everything in between.
My Wonderland form minus the glasses and the fur. I'm not a hippo, I promise.
Ranger now speaks in
light blue text, but he used to speak in blue or orange text. He loves to chat.

The Grays, my other Tulpas, have their own account now.
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