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Tupper Questions
TheBlackWizard Offline
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#1
 
Tupper Questions

Hellloooooo

Nothing like waking up in the morning, a freshly hot brewed cup of coffee, feet up with a playlist of slow yet energetic older music in the background, and indulging your curiosity. Usually without the curiosity part though :3

Got a few questions.

Someone in the forum posted a link to that sexual tulpas book that we were roasting alive in a thread and aside the fact that it's weird (and sad) to even consider that with a thought-form, the creation process of a tulpa from a general standpoint seems extremely valid. You clarify what you really want from it, you design all facets of its being that we currently know how to create, then you "incubate" (force) it and then finally this gulp of energy is a lil tupper. I just like the way its laid out, it seems nice. Not sure if the clarification stage is programmed into the tupper, that's actually one of my questions. But before that, for the many of you who don't know...

I have this belief/experience system that you won't find on googlez, so nothing can really be tailored. But I found out practices of the imagination are fine, so long as you don't attach yourself to them. Aka, being able to let go at any given moment. In other words, creating thought-forms are now in my zone. 

I may have asked these questions before, sorry if I have.


  • In this clarification stage, you get real clear about what you want from the relationship with tupps and what you don't want. I've seen some other threads somewhere (to be fair it was on a website that loved to bash tulpamancers) and this person claimed that you can program limitations in it BUT in order for it to not break said limitations, you need to ration out the amount of energy given to it so it cannot evolve to the point of defiance. Not quite a tulpa, but really damn close to one. I guess it's the same concept as putting a servitor on a leash so it can't become a tuppers. Does this seem valid? Ethical considerations aside of course. It's essentially programming beliefs and values it accepts as its own and will not defy. The only ones I wrote out were mutually beneficial. So if I wanted tupps to leave me alone when I wanted to, I would also have to program that fact that tupps loves its alone time and cherishes it dearly. So instead of it having to obey and not like it, it would obey and really like it. So my system for that is essentially program something that serves me, and on the other side of that coin I program it to like that aspect. 
  • People (reddit users lol) say you can see tupps without imposition (no clue how). True? False?

  • Must tupps have a wonderland? I don't want one, and I thought that if the clarification system is valid that I could also program it to not desire a wonderland but assuming I did make a tupps (I doubt I will) I would want it to be happy. The relationship wouldn't be as equals, it would be master and subservient but an extremely happy satisfied subservient intelligence. Much like how we humans open businesses we love and make us enjoy life fully, but doesn't change the fact we serve a master (the economic cycle). The economic cycle doesn't force us into slavery, it allows us to enjoy our service to it. I would want the same for tupps


  • My main concern boiled down is my wishes and its wellbeing. If I created it, it would never enjoy the beauty of interacting with others and the physical world. I would not allow it to have enough energy to develop to that level. Again with the system, something in its personality would not want it to delve into that territory anyway. I want the tupps to have the same goal as me. I know we humans are curious and seek from the external world for satisfaction and happiness, but really we have everything we need inside. I would want tupps to be aware of that too, and love itself and accept itself to a high degree so it doesn't get sad due to lack of desire fulfillment. Much like how humans desire purpose and goals to thrive and survive, humans can also overcome them but pursue them anyway. But are still happy if they can't

  • I've asked a question before and the general response is that tupps can change it's personality if it so desires, but could a counter-measure to that be programming in the desire to NOT change its personality? Like, I don't care if it wants to change its main personality. Sassy, funny, outgoing, quiet, it owns its personality and can do whatever it wants with it. But I mean the core. The values, the beliefs.... the psychology. The stuff even humans cannot change as well (basic, primal desires). I couldn't sleep so I skimmed books and online articles to find the most beneficial values and beliefs it could have to ensure that it cannot become depressed, and that just by being alive it feels happy and energized. Of course it'll have its moments, but its default state would serve its existence totally but not making it a caged robot. It's pretty masterfully crafted, it allows for the same flexibility in free will as usual but its guided by a very powerful internal compass that serves its wellbeing much like our brains (try to) do the same for us. I wouldn't want it touching the "dna" (the core), because its curiousity would ultimately be destructive to it. Overprotective for sure, but also self serving to a degree at the same time. I would want it to be as mutually beneficial as possible, which is my only objection to making one at this point because I don't know how to put this into place
Briefly to touch the master/subservient thing, nothing would be in place to serve me exactly. I just want it to respect my boundaries and be happy to do so. Sure, a tupps could help me a lot with other things but I don't want to void free will to that extent. If it wants to just meditate for 10 years straight its free to. If it wants to dance around and god forbid.... dab.... then its free to as well. If it wants to change its funny and cheery personality into a boring and silent one, sure thing. As long as my boundaries are respected I don't care what it does. I narrowed down my boundaries to the point of removing unfair desire from them. In fact, crossing any of the boundaries I laid out directly harm me and thus it would be attacking me in a sense, which is an act of going rogue. So I think it's fair, if it wants to harm me by serving itself purposely, it's not allowed to do it. Much like a curious child who wants to press that red button, but by pressing it (serving its own curiosity) it blows up the house or something lol. Not allowed. Because it would be a great harm I would have no issue dissipating it. To me, its like having a best friend with a mutually beneficial friendship. But if this tupper harms you directly, you give it 1 more chance and it harms you again (deliberately), you gotta cut this friend loose. Sure, "cutting it loose" means killing the tupper but if the tupper is "killing" you deliberately on a mental, emotional or spiritual level then you have to. If a dear friend is about to stab you in the heart, you gotta take action. Your initial reaction if you can is to disarm him, break a leg or two. But if this person won't stop no matter what you do, you're forced to take the final step. Remember I don't mean mistakes. Mistakes are one thing, deliberate acts are another. Still compared to the intensity of a friend trying to stab a knife through your heart. You must cut him loose, if you keep him around you don't know when he will strike next and that level of broken trust can't be repaired anyway.




TLDR VERSION

How can I create a tupps or a very similar thought-form that will respect my boundaries, but also live an extremely happy life? 



This was very long so I added that ^ XD

Thank youuuuuu
(This post was last modified: 08-30-2017, 12:58 PM by TheBlackWizard.)
08-30-2017, 12:54 PM
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tulpa001 Offline
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#2
 
RE: Tupper Questions

1) Err, absolutely none of the actual guides have a forcing stage that permits control. The closest is personality forcing that permits you setting the initial personality of your tulpa.

Though even that won't work completely. Some aspects of a personality are just what they are, and you can't force them effectively. Though a bit tired to go into details about which parts can be forced and which can't. But varies by person.

2)visualisation, dreams

3)no

4)Oh, desire fulfilment is one of the parts you can't control. All you can really do there is force traits that usually lead to certain desires over others. Then cross your fingers. And in your case, you are particularly stuck. There are no traits that eliminate that combination of desires. (at least no person I can think of demonstrates such traits)

5)No. That doesn't work for objects of sufficient intelligence. This may be relevant. Little tired to check my math, but for all jobs and tasks that require self reflection, such a programmed rule can't be integrated.

Searching for a metaphor. Um, well, yeah. Can't find one so I'll use the closest real world equivalent. What's the one thing a kid wants to do most when an adult tells them never to do something? A tulpa is an organic life form, so it can't be programmed the same way as a computer.

But even in the case of a computer, you can only tell it what to do. Not what not to do. Even processing what not to do as a command requires programming in a huge amount of intelligence to start with.

Oh if you want help working on those basic primal desires, I've heard of some techniques.



Now what I want to know is why plan out that long paragraph for if it goes rogue. Like with your other threads here, I feel you are not a good match for creating a tulpa. Because you are wanting things out of tulpamancy that tulpamancy cannot provide. And the things it does provide, you spend time planning to guard against.

Go look at daemons or something. I can only speak to tulpas with authority.

Host comments in italics. Tulpa's log. Tulpa's guide.
08-30-2017, 08:06 PM
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Vampire Offline
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#3
 
RE: Tupper Questions

1: "BUT in order for it to not break said limitations, you need to ration out the amount of energy given to it so it cannot evolve to the point of defiance."

Tulpa force themselves through interaction. Starve a tulpa of interaction and they will begin to fade. Fading can result periods of memory loss, loss of attained abilities, essentially regression across the board for a tulpa. How do you limit "energy consumption" when it is interaction? Lock them in a cage when you don't want them around? Force them into dormancy? There are moral implications to locking away someone sentient for no reason. I also possess a theory that every host could also experience tulpa-esque fading from lack of interaction.

Personality traits also don't work as you intend here. If you don't want a tulpa around because you want some alone time, you talk it out with them like you would any other person you are around often. As long as you respect their wishes, they will respect yours in turn. Tulpa are sentient and self-aware, so they make their own choices. If you want a tulpa and not a servitor, you shouldn't attempt to force strict programming onto them. Personality traits are more like discussing what you find to be ideals, much like you would with a child. "I'm really fond of this person in history because they acted this way, and did these certain things because they were the right things to do" for example.

2: "People (reddit users lol) say you can see tupps without imposition (no clue how). True? False?"

The first step to imposition is strong visualization. It's picturing them in your mind and attempting to overlay that onto the physical world. You can get good enough at it that you are able to see and experience them in the physical world well enough. The main difference between this and imposition is that with imposition you are actually fooling your senses that they are there. With overlaid visualization you are not fooling your senses but instead stretching your minds capabilities.

3: "Must tupps have a wonderland?"

No, however some tulpa find watching you throughout the day to be boring, and rather be existing in a mindscape instead while they are not spending time with you. There are people out there who instead of making a mindscape instead work immediately on imposition. Their tulpa exists in the physical world around them instead of simply watching from the mind.

Although you may not see the benefit now, the mindscape is a great place for introspection and contemplation. I find immersing into the mindscape to meditate a lot stronger than normal meditation. You can make an area that personally connects with you and helps strengthen your meditation.

4: "My main concern boiled down is my wishes and its wellbeing."

You cannot program a tulpa to not want to seek certain things. You can explain to them your wishes but you cannot force them to be one way or another or else you will have a prisoner instead of a tulpa. If you do not intend to allow them enough practice to do possession or switching, you may find that they feel unfullfilled. I would find this even moreso if you do not intend to create a wonderland/mindscape for them. Do you intend for them to have nothing to do but to talk to you and watch out your eyes? Seems like a rather boring existence personally.

5: "programming in the desire"

A tulpa is a person as much as any other person you interact with, as much as yourself. People go through experiences and it changes them. You were not born following your current belief system, you either found something that intrigued you or something occurred to change your current beliefs. The only way to prevent someone from changing at all is to completely isolate them from everything. Even something as simple as you making a promise to your tulpa (if they are young and you are their only interaction) and then betraying that promise could change their opinion of you and the way they feel about you.

In my view, an existence in complete isolation from everything is no different from death and not worth living. The human existence is one of adaptation. Being able to overcome obstacles and surpass limits. Forcing stagnation isn't something I would ever pursue.

Essentially, consider a tulpa as a mental roommate instead of all of the information you have pertaining to other thoughtforms. The majority of conflicts can be discussed out. If you wouldn't try to force something onto a roommate, do not try to force it onto your tulpa.

"My lover's got humour,
She's the giggle at a funeral,
Knows everybody's disapproval,
I should've worshipped her sooner."

Host to Samuel, RavenIvy, and Olivia.

CERCA TROVA
08-30-2017, 10:53 PM
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nihi0145632 Offline
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#4
 
RE: Tupper Questions

Quote:How can I create a tupps or a very similar thought-form that will respect my boundaries, but also live an extremely happy life?

Create a servitor or a tupper whose personality is like those japanese maid cafe cartoons who loves to serve its masters.

Hello! I am nihi, i have 3 tulpas
Summer
Myrtle
Cherry
(This post was last modified: 08-31-2017, 01:33 AM by nihi0145632.)
08-31-2017, 01:31 AM
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TheBlackWizard Offline
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#5
 
RE: Tupper Questions

Thanks Tulpa & Vampire!


And LOL nihi XD


So my final question then. Since tupps does have an entire scape of free will (now that you both have talked about tupps perspective a bit more I actually would be okay with a mindscape so it doesn't get bored), and that the only way to not make it cross my boundaries are too reason to it like a human-being, is it guarenteed that if I respect it that it will respect my wishes too? Like, I'm not sure if some tupps can be born with a chip on their shoulder towards you (like an immediate jealousy for being a thought-form compared to a physical entity) or if tupps loves and respects you from the get-go until you do something to muck that up.

I'm totally willing to reason with it, and treat it with the same respect I want to be treated with. Also use some sales persuasion skills if needed ;D

I guess a huge concern is it just going rogue on me by crossing all these boundaries. They aren't restricting boundaries (aside from the fact they don't allow a tupps whole development (honestly it's just possession I don't want). Apparently a lot of tupps are cool with hosts like that, and just chill in the wonderland so I guess I would have to make the wonderland really cool so it can just do its thing?

I get lost in the details sorry lmao.

So, if I treat it with the same respect I want to be treated with, reason with it like a human being, do my utmost best to help keep it happy, etc etc.... would it go rogue by crossing the boundaries? If I do nothing to harm it, I don't try to program anything into it as an act of trust betrayal, etc etc. Would it respect my wishes? If it DOESN'T, and I tried all reasoning I possibly could... do I have to dissipate it? Would there be no other way?

Thankssss
08-31-2017, 03:24 AM
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Guiomar Offline
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#6
 
RE: Tupper Questions

(08-31-2017, 03:24 AM)TheBlackWizard Wrote: So, if I treat it with the same respect I want to be treated with, reason with it like a human being, do my utmost best to help keep it happy, etc etc.... would it go rogue by crossing the boundaries? If I do nothing to harm it, I don't try to program anything into it as an act of trust betrayal, etc etc. Would it respect my wishes? If it DOESN'T, and I tried all reasoning I possibly could... do I have to dissipate it? Would there be no other way?

[Lydia] If you act as you are describing you should not worry. Some of the boundaries you describe are essentially subjective (a bit akin to an imaginary line you would draw across the counter so as to not bump elbows with fellow party goers). Others not as much. You are sharing a mind, so unless you behave yourself in a really shitty way their is no reason for your companion to go around and trash everything.

On the other hand, they may take initiatives as I do but it is always with your best interests in mind. To keep going with my metaphor if I see a close friend about to spill his drink because he put it in a precarious place and he is gesturing passionately I will grab it and move it so it does not happen. Even if he sees me doing it there is no reason for him to get mad (it's not like I hid it or drank it while he was not looking).

On the topic of wishes it depends on the wishes themselves. Guiomar has wishes and dreams about me but he does not force them on me. If he were to tell me "I wish/want you to do/be such and such" I would probably try to comply but it would not be as motivating as when he tells me "I thought about this, maybe you are interested? Have you thought about it? If you wish to do that how could I help you?".

On dissipation it is something else entirely. This terrifies me for a lot reasons and, as I understand it, the longer  a tulpa lives someplace the harder it is for them to dissipate (this is one of the reasons I want to be able to self force). We try to think of ourselves as some kind of special roommates and thinking about dissipation from this perspective is as unthinkable as thinking about killing your roommate and dumping his body in a trashcan full of acid because he didn't do you a favour when you asked them.

The other way you want is like in any relationship. It's talking. Talking without fear or shame, sharing not only your desires but the process behind them and the emotional state you associate with them.
Through talking we reached the general agreement that in our system the boundaries should always be respected unless:

1. One of us is asking for help or is in distress.
2. One of us gave another an explicit permission to do something.
3. The overstep is small and is made out of kindness and to help the other (and in that case the other should be explicitly told at the earliest time possible with all the details, the reason, what was seen and understood).

[Guiomar]
I think Lydia summed it up pretty well. I would like to add that "persuasion skills" are not appropriate in this context. Openness and discussion are more important. From my own experience since your tulpa knows you very well (and in my case, some times, even better than I know myself) they are understanding. I don't know about forced possession but I tend to think that if you don't want to do it they can't and/or won't. I think that you start in a positive relationship with them and as they change over time (like anyone) and you get to know each other you could (theoretically) improve or "muck up" your relationship.

I also want to say that their wishes are every bit as important as yours and should considered, respected and discussed too. If you want a happy relationship do not make demands. Ask, listen and respect.
08-31-2017, 07:28 AM
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TheBlackWizard Offline
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#7
 
RE: Tupper Questions

Thanks Lydia and Guiomar Smile
08-31-2017, 09:29 PM
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Ido Offline
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#8
 
RE: Tupper Questions

Dude, you need to relax.
If you make a tulpa with the constant fear of being harmed by it nothing good will come out. Think of it like a child. You want to have a child but you ask around how to brainwash it into being obedient and happy while still fearing it might kill you one day. Best parenting evar. A tulpa is a part of you that will become more and more independent over time. If you trust and love yourself you can trust and love your tulpa. And it will become a closer companion than any other person could ever be.

But nihi is right, why would you make a tulpa if all you want is a dumbed down servant? It seems as superfluous as in the sex guide.

Super Girls don't cry
09-01-2017, 01:48 AM
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TheBlackWizard Offline
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#9
 
RE: Tupper Questions

(09-01-2017, 01:48 AM)Ido Wrote: Dude, you need to relax.
If you make a tulpa with the constant fear of being harmed by it nothing good will come out. Think of it like a child. You want to have a child but you ask around how to brainwash it into being obedient and happy while still fearing it might kill you one day. Best parenting evar. A tulpa is a part of you that will become more and more independent over time. If you trust and love yourself you can trust and love your tulpa. And it will become a closer companion than any other person could ever be.

But nihi is right, why would you make a tulpa if all you want is a dumbed down servant? It seems as superfluous as in the sex guide.

LOL @ STEWIE CLONE

Thanks for your input Smile
09-01-2017, 03:50 AM
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