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[Visualization] Linkzelda's Image Streaming Guide
Linkzelda Offline
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#41
 
RE: Linkzelda's Image Streaming Guide
We are discussing semantics, since we're talking about what would be a practical way of assorting certain words, symbols, and such. Also, I didn't click "Change All" during that Microsoft Spelling & Grammar Check, that was just to show that it wasn't riddled with piles of correction needed. So I don't know how those few instances equals bad grammar in general.

As for the image where you showed where I could do a page break, wouldn't it be inconsistent to have a page left completely blank, or mostly blank? This brings back to what I mentioned that moving things up or down from Sands' suggestions would probably make things problematic. But seeing how doing that page break you provided an image for would shift the "Word Pair Exercise" down way too much, I guess that wouldn't make it a weird style to you, so duly noted on this as well.

waffles Wrote:Some of your practices might be condoned by some style guides (though I doubt that's the case for most) but American style guides differ as much from each other as from British ones.

And that brings back to the point where it really is just semantics at this point, since the different standards of American, British, German, etc. is prevalent. Though if you weren't complaining by my usage of American spelling and styles, the only reason why you would presume I'd have bad grammar and styles would be because I didn't conform to what you would be used to, seems more like question begging here. Unless tulpa.info militantly follows a certain style (e.g. British), then a few capitalization and lower casing on words, and very small grammar errors that probably wouldn't be errors depending on which standard is utilized really won't affect the readability of the guide submission.


Note: I am going to reconsider these suggestions either way, it's just that it was kind of over hyping on the bad grammar and style, especially when you were using circular reasoning that it would be bad for a different standard, but not for another, but it would still be bad either way, and also using that most won't accept a certain style (which would be obvious if certain styles that have different standards would conflict at some point).


(This post was last modified: 05-06-2014, 07:45 PM by Linkzelda.)
05-06-2014, 07:44 PM
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waffles Offline
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#42
 
RE: Linkzelda's Image Streaming Guide
(05-06-2014, 07:44 PM)Linkzelda Wrote: We are discussing semantics, since we're talking about what would be a practical way of assorting certain words, symbols, and such.

American Heritage says
Quote:Linguistics: The study or science of meaning in language.

No, capitalisation in your titles has nothing to do with meaning. It is stylistic only.



(05-06-2014, 07:44 PM)Linkzelda Wrote: Also, I didn't click "Change All" during that Microsoft Spelling & Grammar Check, that was just to show that it wasn't riddled with piles of correction needed. So I don't know how those few instances equals bad grammar in general.

Was a joke. But like I said there's lots of stuff that Word won't pick up.



(05-06-2014, 07:44 PM)Linkzelda Wrote: As for the image where you showed where I could do a page break, wouldn't it be inconsistent to have a page left completely blank, or mostly blank? This brings back to what I mentioned that moving things up or down from Sands' suggestions would probably make things problematic. But seeing how doing that page break you provided an image for would shift the "Word Pair Exercise" down way too much, I guess that wouldn't make it a weird style to you, so duly noted on this as well.

Well, it's true that you don't use page breaks elsewhere but then I think that's a bad idea as well. Yes, you should enforce page breaks consistently throughout your text.

But no, leaving a lot of space doesn't make a page break a bad idea. It's just an inevitable consequence of using it.



(05-06-2014, 07:44 PM)Linkzelda Wrote: And that brings back to the point where it really is just semantics at this point, since the different standards of American, British, German, etc. is prevalent. Though if you weren't complaining by my usage of American spelling and styles, the only reason why you would presume I'd have bad grammar and styles would be because I didn't conform to what you would be used to, seems more like question begging here.

I have to tell you something Linkzelda. You've been living a lie your whole life.

There is no standardised German style guide for the English language.

It was a joke. And I'm pretty sure I spent a few sentences telling you how "British standards" and "American standards" don't make sense for style. Spellings are different between British and American English and there are some minor grammatical differences. But style varies from author to author, and there is no standard "British" or "American" style.

No, your style doesn't conform to what I'm used to because it doesn't conform to any commonly-used style as far as I am aware. I have pointed out where a correction could be objectionable in some styles, and also made it clear in some examples where there is no such possibility.



(05-06-2014, 07:44 PM)Linkzelda Wrote: Unless tulpa.info militantly follows a certain style (e.g. British), then a few capitalization and lower casing on words, and very small grammar errors that probably wouldn't be errors depending on which standard is utilized really won't affect the readability of the guide submission.

No, we're just being pedantic. It doesn't affect how well I can read it but it does affect how much I enjoy reading it.



(05-06-2014, 07:44 PM)Linkzelda Wrote: you were using circular reasoning that it would be bad for a different standard, but not for another, but it would still be bad either way, and also using that most won't accept a certain style (which would be obvious if certain styles that have different standards would conflict at some point).

I don't know, Linkzelda, I just don't know. I didn't really say that. I said "Some of your practices might be condoned by some style guides (though I doubt that's the case for most)". I said that because I haven't read every style guide out there, not because I know of any particular styles that you are consistent with.

Actually, if you are using a particular style guide then just tell me and I won't complain if you're following it properly. I'm not going to say "tulpa.info won't accept such-and-such style", because, as you seem to agree, that's a Bad Thing. But when your writing conflicts with every style guide there is, I will correct it. No circular reasoning there.
05-06-2014, 08:00 PM
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Linkzelda Offline
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#43
 
RE: Linkzelda's Image Streaming Guide
Waffles Wrote:I have to tell you something Linkzelda. You've been living a lie your whole life.
There is no standardised German style guide for the English language.

Where did I imply that I thought there was a standardized German style guide for the English language? Anyway, I just find it hard to distinguish sarcasm on your end, but I had a nagging feeling it (the joke) could be the case, but I’m just not used to how you joke around I guess.

waffles Wrote:No, your style doesn't conform to what I'm used to because it doesn't conform to any commonly-used style as far as I am aware.

Alright, but this still raises the question on which commonly-used style(s) you’re aware of that should be implemented in future guide submissions in tulpa.info. If me and other users are left in the dust of which one would really be used (based on your experiences), then there will be confusion at some point.

But how you formatted this sentence in general implies that what you were aware of would be commonly used in general, and that would be a matter of disposition. This implies that you would’ve sorted out almost everything, and you stated that you didn’t later on in your post, so it’s just question begging on what should really be “commonly-used style.”

waffles Wrote:No, we're just being pedantic. It doesn't affect how well I can read it but it does affect how much I enjoy reading it.

This seems to make seeing the guide submissions with less of an objective perspective, since what is “enjoyable” is now a matter of personal preference. And if that’s the case, that kind of undermines the general premises of the GAT system. At this point, it’s kind of creating an imaginary populace if you feel your spectrum of enjoying certain submissions would apply to other people.

Because this would require the individual making the guide to make a guide entry that has as much people enjoying reading it vs. people getting the general idea, but not necessarily having their own personal feelings (e.g. enjoyment) into this. It would be akin to a newcomer that wants to create a tulpa, but not really enjoying the fact that they have to go through threads, and learn for themselves, and such to start somewhere.

waffles Wrote:I don't know, Linkzelda, I just don't know. I didn't really say that. I said "Some of your practices might be condoned by some style guides (though I doubt that's the case for most)". I said that because I haven't read every style guide out there, not because I know of any particular styles that you are consistent with.

But in order for you to state
Waffles Wrote:(though I doubt that’s the case for most)


would require some knowledge of all styles in general (which would really just be personal opinions at this point). This is why I mentioned that different standards for different styles (when conflating them) obviously wouldn’t condone a style an individual is using, since this conflation would really just be your own personal mix of a style guide.

It wasn’t referring to any styles I’m consistent with, it was just directing to when you presumed there would be doubting that there would be condoning for most. I just find it a bit contradicting for you to make that presumption is all.

Waffles Wrote:Actually, if you are using a particular style guide then just tell me and I won't complain if you're following it properly.

Not really using a specific style guide here (more of a myriad of style guides I guess), and I’m not really seeing this as you complaining, since you’re just doing your thing as a GAT member.

Waffles Wrote:I'm not going to say "tulpa.info won't accept such-and-such style", because, as you seem to agree, that's a Bad Thing.

I never stated that if tulpa.info makes a certain standard of acceptable styles that it would be a bad thing. I merely stated that:

Linkzelda Wrote:Unless tulpa.info militantly follows a certain style (e.g. British), then a few capitalization and lower casing on words, and very small grammar errors that probably wouldn't be errors depending on which standard is utilized really won't affect the readability of the guide submission.

It’s just about readability, that’s all. Not about how the individual enjoys reading it, just if it’s readable in general from an objective standpoint (e.g. reducing implications of subjective standpoints on the level of enjoyment when reading it, since we can’t make over-generalizations of what other people would enjoy based on what we presume is enjoyable or not).

waffles Wrote:But when your writing conflicts with every style guide there is, I will correct it. No circular reasoning there.

But why state that my writing might be condoned by a few (which seems to be just your personal collection of what’s acceptable or not), and then state that it conflicts with every style guide there is? This is really based on every style guide you’re aware of, not being aware of the totality of style guides possible. This is circular reasoning on your end, because it’s begging the question, i.e., the original premise of yours that presumes the writing conflicts with every style guide there is because of one’s that you’re aware of, and thus the writing is conflicting. Whether you state a generalization about American Heritage, or some other source, it obviously wouldn't be sources that can direct to all style guides possible since it's just a presumption on your end.

In layman’s terms, you’re trying to prove that your presumption that the writing conflicts with every writing style guide possible is true because it conflicts with every style guide you’re aware of (compared to actually showing the totality of possible style guides there is, and seeing how it would conflict with them individually rather than just grabbing bits and pieces of ones you’re aware of, and ones that you’re aware of doesn’t necessarily mean how you make your own list would be commonly used). There's a difference in doing a comparative analysis of my writing with every style guides possible individually vs. making generalizations, and grabbing parts of every style guide you're aware of, and presuming they would all conflict based on that alone.

Your premises entails your conclusion (e.g. writing style conflicts with every writing style there is), but said premises are questionable (e.g. you stating about style guides and such that you’re personally aware of which would be limited unless you actually knew the totality of style guides possible).


(This post was last modified: 05-06-2014, 09:34 PM by Linkzelda.)
05-06-2014, 09:29 PM
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waffles Offline
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#44
 
RE: Linkzelda's Image Streaming Guide
(05-06-2014, 09:29 PM)Linkzelda Wrote: Alright, but this still raises the question on which commonly-used style(s) you’re aware of that should be implemented in future guide submissions in tulpa.info. If me and other users are left in the dust of which one would really be used (based on your experiences), then there will be confusion at some point.

Honestly, I don't really care. As long as someone's submission corresponds to some commonly-used style guide (there aren't that many and they're all pretty similar) then it's fine by me. It'll be consistent and aesthetically acceptable, so there's nothing to complain about.



(05-06-2014, 09:29 PM)Linkzelda Wrote: But how you formatted this sentence in general implies that what you were aware of would be commonly used in general, and that would be a matter of disposition. This implies that you would’ve sorted out almost everything, and you stated that you didn’t later on in your post, so it’s just question begging on what should really be “commonly-used style.”

Actually, I am aware of what is commonly used. Because I read and have read in the past a reasonable sample of items written in the English language, I should be able to judge fairly objectively from that what kind of style is commonly used. It's not really a matter of disposition, unless you think that I choose to read only material that conforms to styles I prefer (I don't).



(05-06-2014, 09:29 PM)Linkzelda Wrote: This seems to make seeing the guide submissions with less of an objective perspective, since what is “enjoyable” is now a matter of personal preference. And if that’s the case, that kind of undermines the general premises of the GAT system. At this point, it’s kind of creating an imaginary populace if you feel your spectrum of enjoying certain submissions would apply to other people.

Well, if what you're saying is that perfect style isn't important relative to other factors then yes, I'll concede that. It's for this reason that I approved this thing despite there being numerous stylistic heresies.



(05-06-2014, 09:29 PM)Linkzelda Wrote: But in order for you to state
Quote:(though I doubt that’s the case for most)
would require some knowledge of all styles in general (which would really just be personal opinions at this point). This is why I mentioned that different standards for different styles (when conflating them) obviously wouldn’t condone a style an individual is using, since this conflation would really just be your own personal mix of a style guide.

It wasn’t referring to any styles I’m consistent with, it was just directing to when you presumed there would be doubting that there would be condoning for most. I just find it a bit contradicting for you to make that presumption is all.

I'm sorry, my clarification was a bit weird there. I said what I said because I'm not sure that all of the mistakes that were pointed out are wrong in the eyes of every recommended style. But I am sure that most of them are wrong in the eyes of most styles.



(05-06-2014, 09:29 PM)Linkzelda Wrote: But why state that my writing might be condoned by a few (which seems to be just your personal collection of what’s acceptable or not), and then state that it conflicts with every style guide there is?

I guess the clarification I gave right above here should clear that up. Some of your 'mistakes' might have been condoned by a few. But I will definitely correct that which is not.

No, I have not read every page of every manual of style. Yes, I am making an assumption based on those which are commonly used. I know that there might be some guidance somewhere that condones some of your practices, despite seeing no evidence for it; that's why I said it myself as quoted numerous times.

Maybe you wanted me to have said "when your writing conflicts with every commonly-used style guide there is", but I don't really see why it matters if you weren't following any consistent style anyway.
05-07-2014, 05:01 PM
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kolesnikov Offline
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#45
 
RE: Linkzelda's Image Streaming Guide
Tonight I was practicing an exercise that I created very similar to your music association. It really works, and several times my mind was abruptly interrupt with titles of Bach's songs that I didn't even remember and I assume Johann indicated me them.
This was my first exercise burning time with him and my experience was pretty good, I feel we had a lovely communication, with him sending me thoughts about his feelings related to the songs playing.
I'm going to read your guide and hope it helps. Thank you!
07-19-2014, 02:31 AM
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Linkzelda Offline
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#46
 
RE: Linkzelda's Image Streaming Guide
I noticed, at least for me, that using binaural beats and isochronic tones helps a lot with getting in certain states mentally (e.g. alpha, theta). The thing with the music is that even if it's instrumental, sometimes the pacing can throw you off if you're not accustomed to typing/writing/speaking out what goes on in your head. In my first attempts with that, I played a few songs that were a bit too fast, or just had so much variety in pacing. This is why I felt putting that method after the others because one would probably have to know how to let unconscious thoughts come to their awareness quickly, and still have time to describe what's going on.

I hope it works out for you, and speaking from experience, doing the method as if you have no life for a few days you may have off helps out a lot. It'll get to the point where you can do this stuff on the fly naturally. It could be related to doing passive forcing (if you're associating your tulpa(s) with the image streaming) when you're not confining yourself to sitting down and all that.


(This post was last modified: 07-21-2014, 02:42 PM by Linkzelda.)
07-21-2014, 02:39 PM
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AlynAndRiver Offline
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#47
 
RE: Linkzelda's Image Streaming Guide
Well well, this thread hasn't seen action in a while, so let me practice some necromancy along with my tulpamancy :-)

I wanted to say thanks for the guide, first of all. Someone on /r/tulpas told me about image streaming when I described something I experienced while forcing. Basically, I was doing the exercise where you visualise the tupper writing numbers on a canvas from 1 to 100. When I reached 100, I suggested to my tupper River, "Why don't you start choosing simple shapes and colors to draw so that we can practice your sentience?" River was happy to oblige, and I narrated in mindvoice what I saw her draw. However, within a few minutes, she was presenting me with 3D shapes that jumped off the canvas, and minutes later, my mind seemed to just flood with all sorts of different images. I couldn't even tell what came from me or from River, but I simply narrated what I saw. After 20-30 minutes of this, I was exhausted, it was late, and I went right to sleep! The next night, I did it again and we went longer. I want to emphasise that all I did was ask River to draw shapes and colors; I did not intentionally cause this experience the first time.

I usually force sitting in front of the computer, with the screen dimmed and facing away from the screen. I seem to always be aware of the blackness on the back of my eyelids and the faint sound of the cooling fan, but during this experience, I completely forgot about those.

The thread on /r/tulpas is here: https://www.reddit.com/r/Tulpas/comments...rcing_and/

I got a reply suggesting I learn about your Image Streaming guide, so here I am! I've read it start to finish, and it does sound quite a bit like what my system did on our own.

***

Oh, and here's a SWE I did today. I narrated it to my tupper Rocky, so this is a memory-dump.

I first greeted my three tuppers River, Dante, and Rocky in wonderland and invited Rocky to go on this mind-adventure with me because I don't give him enough attention. He has the form of a small red dragon and we were soon flying thru space with him perched upon my shoulder and we landed upon a rocky planet. "Let's explore that extinct volcano in front of us!" We climb to the cusp of the caldera and see a castle in the middle. We approach the castle and step into a shadow where I feel very cold, but Rocky keeps me warm with his magical dragon powers. I also come to a moat surrounding the castle and swim across while Rocky flies overhead. I follow a breast-stroke pattern, taking three long strokes between breaths. Finally, Rocky and I arrive at the castle.

I tell Rocky that I am unarmed and I feel vulnerable, but I trust him to use his dragon powers to keep me safe. We enter the castle and are confronted with a horrible monster. I couldn't even visualise it clearly except to say that it spat flames and toxic fumes everywhere. Rocky used his magic dragon powers to freeze and shatter the monster. Then, in a scene exactly like in "Terminator 2: Judgement Day", the monster reassembled itself into the figure of a man who taunted us that he would keep hurting us forever and we could never be rid of him. So, Rocky froze the monster again and we placed it in a box. We picked up the box and flew together to the dark side of the planet where it is freezing code. We used sledgehammers to smash the monster into tiny pieces where it wouldn't be able to unfreeze itself. We then cast the pieces off to the stars in different directions so they could never be reassembled.

We lauded ourselves as heroes.

***

After that, I did some of the two word association exercise with Dante. Then, I felt the sandman tugging at my eyelids, so I reposed for an hour-long nap.

Thank you thank you thank you for this guide. Have you come up with anything in particular in the years since that we might find useful?
01-19-2017, 11:54 PM
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| Ada | Offline
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#48
 
RE: Linkzelda's Image Streaming Guide
It's kind of hard for him to give a response to that question because it would assume he has enough intellect to know how far a person can advance through this method alone. That, and the fact that whatever advice or experiential learning he gives to you will absolutely have no empirical bearing whatsoever. It's going to be, in his personal opinion (and something I agree with), one of those things where you either trust the process to take you forward wherever you want to do in relation to handling new bits of information for more difficult endeavors...or it's a method you casually do without worrying about all of that.

Don't get me wrong, we still do this stuff, but it's more of spread out throughout the day rather than waiting for a day, or two for a time sink on. Though, the time sinks can be useful to do every once in a blue moon.
(This post was last modified: 02-01-2017, 01:45 AM by | Ada |.)
02-01-2017, 01:44 AM
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