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What do I do when a friend takes tulpamancy too far?
#1
I have a friend who has gone through a LOT. He has many tulpas, and even though they try to tell him he needs to socialize with humans more and give humans another chance, he is very misanthropic, and is disillusioned with humans to the point where he's about ready to remove the few Facebook friends he has, and rely completely on his tulpas for companionship. I tried to tell him that others have warned that it's not healthy to rely only on tulpas for companionship, and it's good to go out and make human friends as well, but he said that's just a human rule and he doesn't need humans.

I promised myself to not say a word about this, because I felt like I might be betraying his trust, but I never actually made that promise to him, and I really want to help him, because I feel he is taking things far too seriously, and he's willing to go to the most extreme form of escapism to run away from his problems. I don't know what to say to him though, he just seems to be done with humanity, and he has some extreme views on what's right and wrong, so he'll end up no longer being friends with people for even the littlest things that most people wouldn't even be bothered by or pay any attention to, he even has rules for being his friend. I know I should probably drop this friendship, because the last convo I had with him gave me really bad vibes, but I do want him to get help, because other than his anger problems, he is actually a really nice person who could easily make a lot of friends if he tries. I know that tulpas for the most part, have nothing but good intentions, so I was thinking, maybe there's something I can get him to ask one of his tulpas, and if the tulpa confirms it, then he'll realize that he has been spiraling out of control. He said his tulpas are always trying to convince him to be more trusting of people, but he doesn't believe them.
Will list tulpas when I get things sorted out in my head.
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#2
>This is Doughnut's tulpa, Amy. Have him ask his tulpas if him receding from humanity and only talking to them would make them happy. I don't speak for all tulpae, but I know I'd never want my host to do that.
Tulpas
Amy
Nine-Tailed Kitsune
Sigma
Anthro Cat-Bat
The Kippies!
Jazz (M), Viola (F), Chime (H), Fife (M), Iris (F), Robyn (F), Aster (M), Sage (F), Dune (M), Snowbell (F), Rosemary (F), Glyph (M), Volt (M), Circuit (F)
The Baybees~
Marina, Acorn, Anais, Lily, Chip
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#3
Don't be too aggressive about the problem if you confront him, that will probably just make it worse. Maybe try to get him involved in some things that involve humans and tulpae, slowly try to get him back in the swing if human interaction.
Even though my username is that of my tulpa, Quilten, my name is Phaneron, the host, who does all of the actual posting.
Tulpas: Quilten, Jira
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#4
He refers to others as "humans." This implies he is purposely separating himself from everyone else. It is an "us" and "them" situation. I would assume he has either been hurt dramatically at some point, or believes he is better than others. People who feel they have been ostracized at some point in life can carry this feeling on, or habits from when it happened (why kids in school often have separate groups for "weird kids" and "normal kids" when there is no real separation other than interests).

His personality sounds self-destructive and lonely. If he is harboring such sad feelings, you could probably help by sticking with him even if he is giving you and others BS. That would make him feel a sense of friendship, even when he knows he's in the wrong (of course then he could develop a co-dependency if that ever happened). But if he really, REALLY tries to cut ties with you, then perhaps it is best (after some gentle prying to get back in) to leave him be.

Also, he probably creates these friendship rules in an attempt to not be hurt, or to feel better about himself if he has low self-esteem (seeing others fail at his "perfect friendship rules" may reinforce the idea of them being bad for failing, and him being good for upholding them).

That's all mostly assumption, because I don't actually know the boy, though. I'm not sure he would listen to his tulpas, since you say he doesn't believe them.
“From my rotting body,
flowers shall grow
and I am in them
and that is eternity.”
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#5
(06-10-2014, 12:05 AM)Patchlamb Wrote: He refers to others as "humans." This implies he is purposely separating himself from everyone else. It is an "us" and "them" situation. I would assume he has either been hurt dramatically at some point, or believes he is better than others. People who feel they have been ostracized at some point in life can carry this feeling on, or habits from when it happened (why kids in school often have separate groups for "weird kids" and "normal kids" when there is no real separation other than interests).

His personality sounds self-destructive and lonely. If he is harboring such sad feelings, you could probably help by sticking with him even if he is giving you and others BS. That would make him feel a sense of friendship, even when he knows he's in the wrong (of course then he could develop a co-dependency if that ever happened). But if he really, REALLY tries to cut ties with you, then perhaps it is best (after some gentle prying to get back in) to leave him be.

Also, he probably creates these friendship rules in an attempt to not be hurt, or to feel better about himself if he has low self-esteem (seeing others fail at his "perfect friendship rules" may reinforce the idea of them being bad for failing, and him being good for upholding them).

That's all mostly assumption, because I don't actually know the boy, though. I'm not sure he would listen to his tulpas, since you say he doesn't believe them.

He does believe in a lot of the things they say, just not that he should trust humans, although I think he does in part believe that, because he still tries (if he didn't, he wouldn't have added me in the first place). I think having his tulpas get in on helping him overcome his distrust of humanity might be the best way. If I have him ask them if they're happy with his views of humanity, and they say no, then that could be a major step in his recovery.

Edit: I could have him get one or more of his tulpas involved in an intervention. Just ask him questions, and have him type what his tulpas say, so it's like we're all there to help him.
Will list tulpas when I get things sorted out in my head.
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#6
You should encourage him to get professional help.
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#7
(06-10-2014, 01:35 AM)fennecgirl Wrote: You should encourage him to get professional help.

Agreed. It seems like this guy is deluded NEET who doesn't know where he will end up in a year if he continues like this. Chances are that he'll end up hurting himself in some way or the other. Patchlamb hit the nail on the head as well. As for helping him, maybe try talking to others close to him and convincing him, as a group, to get help (is that called an intervention?).
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#8
From the position of hikky NEET who only has few contacts on Internet and even less IRL, and totally no friends, I can totally understand him, and I can say what to do if you want to keep around him:
You should first change your idea of being friends. Don't ask him to "be social"; ask him to "be open". Don't get him out by annoying with invites; get him out by trying hard to understand whatever he says or offers to you, and replying it. Standing in front of each other and moving lips isn't actual goal; understanding each other and giving good ideas and views on situation is. I heard many people, who are first saying they are non-social, but then confirm it's just speech flow making them feel uncomfortable. You have to make him feel like he can tell you anything, even if it seems unfitting.
Does he have a hobby? Probably yes. You could try to do it together. If that's not interesting for you, don't do it out of duty, but try to understand what is so interesting in it for him. Or you can also promote your hobby to him, but then it's your duty to "explain the fun", which may be harder than it seems.
Also, remember, if he's annoyed with some minor detail it's not this detail to blame, it's just formal cause to release anger he already has inside. Actually, being like that is very common thing. Road rage is perfect example of such formal cause.
And DON'T try assaulting things like interventions (basically just crowd-attacking to force someone for changing opinion), calling doctors, etc. First, it's his own right to live however he wants and be with whoever he wants; second, it will make him hostile forever to you; third, even if he won't refuse you immediately, it won't resolve conflict, it will only make your side stronger, and war never brings anything but destruction.
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#9
He'll probably continue with a false sense of belonging with his tulpas when he'll learn for himself that they can't really be his excuse in absolving from human contact. It's kind of like a person who's lost all hope and feels they have nothing to lose, and feels their tulpas are more than enough for their lives. I guess attachments like that comes because the person sees the potential a tulpa has in making them feel whole, I guess.

But it's (the fulfillment thing) not the kind of thing that's long lasting when he's going to make things one-sided. But again, as much as everyone's trying to push for him being gregarious and all, some people really just want to be alone in the aspect that they don't have as much deep interpersonal interactions with others. I've known several users who left this forum in particular who have gone that route, but they don't necessarily strip away from human contact, they just have casual relationships with others, and a deeper one with their tulpas.

Honestly, saying someone needs professional help is easy to say, but the actual delivery and presentation for the individual to state to a professional is the real challenge here. And for us to state someone should get professional help when we're all doing something that would have mixed views either way is kind of ironic, and it would be doubly ironic if certain individuals still have struggles with their own tulpas as well. Sure, psychiatrists could be open-minded in this aspect, especially if they've seen worse before, but if this guy is really misanthropic, and even nihilistic (and emphasizes only on the negative thesis of it), he's got more problems to deal with that a professional probably won't help much with. Unless they try procedural measures for whatever they see fit for what they consider as mental ailments, but that may create a situation much worse.

Here I thought people would realize that having tulpas can offer a chance for people to become even more gregarious with others. Maybe because when a tulpa can contribute to making a person feel more like themselves, and then some, it would give them the confidence to see others differently. And not be so militant on trying to validate themselves through others so much.

In other words, we probably develop friendships to build a sense of identity, and when they're gone, part of our identity becomes lost; but if we engage in relationships with our tulpas, our identity doesn't become constrained only to those we socialize with. While we can't be too sure of how long those we socialize with will live, we can have the assurance that our tulpas can last for as long as we exist. I figured something like that would make us appreciate others we're gregarious with even more, and to not take for granted of that, and our tulpas as well.

If even his tulpas can't get through to him, along with his burning hatred of humans in general, we're just talking to a wall at this point. Hopefully, he'll learn through his own errors. Our words are nothing more than to give us a belief that we're being sympathetic, or empathetic of his position. Can't always fix someone for all circumstances, especially when his misanthropy is probably something he developed over the course of his life, and the concept of tulpas just made things greater. Good luck though.
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#10
I think I might have blew it. He removed me from his main FB account, so I messaged his sub account and asked him why he removed me, when all I wanted to do was help? And I mentioned that I wanted to have an intervention, but get his main tulpa involved, so we could both help him. I think that last part might've come off as offensive to him, because he ended up blocking me =/

Dear Princess Celestia: Tough love can be effective, but sometimes, too much tough love can be a bad thing.
Will list tulpas when I get things sorted out in my head.
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