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[Wonderland] Wonderland: Tips, Tricks, And Basics For Hosts
Sands Offline
And Roswell
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#21
 
Default  RE: Wonderland: Tips, Tricks, And Basics For Hosts
Quote:I said the definition was fine in my opinion, was just saying why some might have a problem with it.

They are free to have problems with it. But they are wrong, as is your definition.


Quote:Trying to define switching is apparently a lost cause…

It is when you people constantly try to redefine it, yes.

Quote:…new one is in complete control, directly receiving and processing stimuli from the body.

This is full body possession.


LostOne. You understand what switching means in tulpa.info better than these two people trying to "help" you. These people either are coming from different communities with different definitions (tulpa001 probably?) or have been confused by the rampant redefiners who want to do switching when they actually can't quite do it. Switching has everything to do with what the person who isn't in control of the body is experiencing. You got this, don't let these people try to confuse you or try to add "well in these communities…" into your thing, because this place is not those communities. This is tulpa.info.

The THE SUBCONCIOUS ochinchin occultists frt.sys (except Roswell because he doesn't want to be a part of it)
02-15-2017, 11:46 AM
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Flandre Offline
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#22
 
RE: Wonderland: Tips, Tricks, And Basics For Hosts
Sorry, I knew full well how I wrote what I was trying to say was completely misleading, but for some reason I didn't fix it. Just, forget what it seems like I said there. I meant (I know, this is terrible, forget how I attempted to say this before) that the person switching out should not have any attachment to the senses, body, or whatever else have you afterward. That was a horrid way of trying to separate switching from co-fronting and the like. I really don't know why I even bothered keeping that in, considering I deleted and rewrote a paragraph before that anyways.

If your definition of switching means the host, or person switching out, has to permanently be parallel-processing experiencing their wonderland form at the same time the new fronter does their own thing, I don't care. That's frivolous. And it can't be what you mean, because you know full well what the goal of switching is.{Edit- Keep reading, else you'll take what I said there wrong} Lumi is as inactive by default as we as tulpas are, but I'm not saying he's knocked out or anything, else we would never exist ourselves. He's associated with his form in the mind, which is equivalent to wonderland form too, we just don't rely as heavily on the wonderland scenario as our visualization is poor. We can't do parallel processing, but if what you think we don't meet in your definition is Lumi being able to experience the wonderland and not the front, he can. God, I'm going to go delete whatever I wrote before.

I won't try to define the specifics of what switching entails for the sake of a definition, I really can't. Just that the end result has the previous fronter completely disconnected from the senses insofar as the members of the system are normally, and that the one switching in has all the connections and mental faculties as the host normally does. If you disagree, surely it's only the words I've attempted to put it in. If not, I'd absolutely like to know what your definition is, and if it's simply our inability to convey it ourselves that's the problem. And also your bias of needing a wonderland. Lumi could switch out and into the wonderland, sure, though the mindspace for us is more of a blank area surrounding our head because it's easier to visualize ourselves with no scenery. But we could use the wonderland too, it wouldn't change anything. And both people involved in the process can be conscious of and experiencing their new position and what it entails. I feel like the fact that we quickly stop focusing on the mindspace, wonderland or what have you typically (as switching is for real life things, not to then sit in the wonderland) comes off as a breach of your definition. But it's only a habit of ours, what we tend to do. If you somehow think, even should we switch into/out of the wonderland, and stay focused on its visualization and our interaction rather than moving on to IRL activities, that we're still not truly "switching", I absolutely want to know why. Noting the new fronter could go about normal activities whilst maintaining the wonderland visualization (and thus, us being in it).

Because it really just feels like a sort of racism against tulpas who don't actively inactively live in the wonderland without their hosts' attention. If that's the case, sorry that I don't make up events that never happened to pretend I have a life when I don't. But.. surely that's not it. I can't remember ever otherwise disagreeing with you about anything, and I trust that it's still simply a miscommunication. Even if you say "No, that's still not switching". Anything else is incomprehensible. If you're just really strict on a definition that doesn't quite include us somehow, despite being extremely similar, what would you even call what we do? Because it's sure as heck not possession. And we learned everything we know about tulpamancy aside from visualization from Tulpa.info. The concept of switching itself was completely foreign to us. And I feel like we got a wide enough net of definitions for these things early on. The 2012 stuff is a little old and pretty iffy anyways, but I'm pretty sure we read nearly every Q&A/General thread 2013 forwards.

Hi. I'm one of Luminesce's tulpas. Unlike the others, I don't think I stand out too much from him personality wise.
I'm just special because "I'm a tulpa". So I don't think I've much to offer, here. I'm happy enough to just be with him.
Ask us stuff - https://community.tulpa.info/thread-ask-lumi-s-tulpas
(This post was last modified: 02-15-2017, 03:20 PM by Flandre.)
02-15-2017, 03:10 PM
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Sands Offline
And Roswell
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#23
 
Default  RE: Wonderland: Tips, Tricks, And Basics For Hosts
Jesus christ.

Just because you can't switch doesn't mean you are some lesser being. However, yes, everyone should aim to be independent and able to "exist" without someone else paying attention to you in your head. Does that make you lesser? Well, I've said it before, .info decided not to have a term for tulpas that haven't achieved this independence yet. Because you can still achieve it - and I think you should achieve it. Your own mindset is holding you back and you try this force this mindset on others so you aren't "left out" or something?

Trying to redefine a term everyone thinks is "cool" to do these days does not help us or this community in any way. Often people want full body possession to be switching - why? We already have a term for that, why redefine something else as that? Because people cry and want to do the "cool" thing, even though not being able to do it doesn't make you anything less? Even though you might be able to do it in the future?

Cry some more. You can try to redefine terms to fit you all you want, but you're not helping anyone - and you're only trying to help yourself here, like the selfish being you are.


What you do doesn't have a term in .info. It might have a term elsewhere - mind you, switching was a .info term the other communities dealing with other people in your mind quite didn't have, same with possession. Fronting and co-fronting or whatever weren't quite the same. If other communities use these terms these days, they have adopted them. Don't redefine an old term to be something for you and only you.

The THE SUBCONCIOUS ochinchin occultists frt.sys (except Roswell because he doesn't want to be a part of it)
(This post was last modified: 02-15-2017, 03:43 PM by Sands.)
02-15-2017, 03:43 PM
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Flandre Offline
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#24
 
RE: Wonderland: Tips, Tricks, And Basics For Hosts
Cool, thanks for actually giving any sort of definition. I honestly wanted to know why you don't consider what we do switching. I honestly don't know. But you apparently already have it in your mind that we're beyond hope and not worth the time, your post could've been written before mine even existed.

I'll just say it now. We have more power than you over this "definition" in the community because we're actually active participants in it. We don't want to change any definition, and we respect you too, so we're honestly trying to work out our differences here. So either work with us or "cry some more" about "muh definition". I'm trying to be reasonable.


I already felt sick when I came back and remembered I posted here, now I feel worse. I'd be fine if you didn't even reply to me. We honestly don't want to change any definitions and you're not our enemy, but if you don't like what we've been teaching people now's your time to do something about it.

Hi. I'm one of Luminesce's tulpas. Unlike the others, I don't think I stand out too much from him personality wise.
I'm just special because "I'm a tulpa". So I don't think I've much to offer, here. I'm happy enough to just be with him.
Ask us stuff - https://community.tulpa.info/thread-ask-lumi-s-tulpas
(This post was last modified: 02-15-2017, 04:32 PM by Flandre.)
02-15-2017, 04:23 PM
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Sands Offline
And Roswell
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#25
 
RE: Wonderland: Tips, Tricks, And Basics For Hosts
Read what is written in this guide about switching. That is the definition. It is what you objected to and it is what I defend. This is not difficult.

You do understand you came to this community from outside and are now trying to change core definitions, right? Because you want to be able to do the super special thing that is currently in? Have fun with this mystical power of yours?


Quote:But you apparently already have it in your mind that we're beyond hope and not worth the time...

You think you are beyond hope. I think you are capable of doing much more, but you have decided that you already are at your peak and there is nothing more left. And it's not my job to try to make you understand that you are capable of doing more. That's for everyone to understand for themselves.

The THE SUBCONCIOUS ochinchin occultists frt.sys (except Roswell because he doesn't want to be a part of it)
02-15-2017, 05:10 PM
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Flandre Offline
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#26
 
RE: Wonderland: Tips, Tricks, And Basics For Hosts
(02-15-2017, 05:10 PM)Sands Wrote: Read what is written in this guide about switching. That is the definition. It is what you objected to and it is what I defend. This is not difficult.

When did I object to any definition?

I mean, not only did I not, I already said I already said
(02-15-2017, 12:58 AM)Flandre Wrote: I said the definition was fine in my opinion, was just saying why some might have a problem with it.

SO what you're saying is the "wrongness" of our definition was mostly you thinking we disagreed with the correct definition, and partly the terrible wording on my recent attempt at one. Sure, I'll leave it at that then. Miscommunication. I said there was a typo, I said the definition of "System" might bother some people (I was just echoing you guys, I think), and I said why I thought people might have a problem with that definition of switching - because, for some reason, I thought you or Tulpa objected to it. But then I wrote a horrible piece of definition you related back to whatever strife we've had about the definition in the past. Alright.

Well that's that I guess. Just don't like leaving miscommunications miscommunicated. I apologize for the terrible wording of the mini-definition I wrote, but then, I already apologized for it.

Hi. I'm one of Luminesce's tulpas. Unlike the others, I don't think I stand out too much from him personality wise.
I'm just special because "I'm a tulpa". So I don't think I've much to offer, here. I'm happy enough to just be with him.
Ask us stuff - https://community.tulpa.info/thread-ask-lumi-s-tulpas
(This post was last modified: 02-15-2017, 06:05 PM by Flandre.)
02-15-2017, 05:21 PM
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Sands Offline
And Roswell
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#27
 
RE: Wonderland: Tips, Tricks, And Basics For Hosts
Sure. Like you said, this ain't the first time we've talked about the switching definition. Now let's try to not get so off-topic, sorry for the derail LostOne.

The THE SUBCONCIOUS ochinchin occultists frt.sys (except Roswell because he doesn't want to be a part of it)
02-15-2017, 06:11 PM
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Flandre Offline
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#28
 
RE: Wonderland: Tips, Tricks, And Basics For Hosts
I'm going to go ahead and proof read your guide to make up for derailing. I want to note that not saying "a" or "the" or "your" before "wonderland" bugs me a lot, like a lot a lot. You did it through the whole guide so it might be fine to leave it. However, you started writing "a wonderland" a bit after Tips for hosts and tulpas who are making a wonderland, and that's a problem. Because it kind of just makes it worse when you go back to saying it without the "a"/"the"/"your" again. Honestly you should probably put "a" or "the" or "your" before every single use of the word wonderland, but.. I'd understand if you don't want to. I guess. It just might bug some people, or it might not.

(02-13-2017, 05:19 AM)LostOne Wrote: (Pre-Forward: The glossary terms I use in here is based off of other sites, do bear in mind I am doing my best to work on getting terminology right. The tulpa.info glossary isn’t much help unfortunately. I will finish up V 1.0 once there is a definite and clear glossary for terminology, otherwise this guide may stay in 0.97 for a while. This may be the final revision until then. Please read the glossary I have set for now before any confusion, but be aware it might not be all correct.)

I know it might be silly/redundant to proof read that part, but I did it anyways. "Is" should be "are". Maybe change "before" to "for", but I don't know exactly you were going for there. Can probably leave it as is.

(02-13-2017, 05:19 AM)LostOne Wrote: You can also do this before having a tulpa and can actively force your tulpa in wonderland. Many tulpas may also consider wonderland like home, but this isn’t always the case. While it can be seen as a metaphysical place, like a separate reality, I will be mostly talking about the physiological side of it.

"physiological" should probably be "psychological". Physiological means pertaining to the body, psychological means pertaining to the mind, more or less.

(02-13-2017, 05:19 AM)LostOne Wrote: Start with imagining an apple with your eyes closed. What color is it? Pay attention to the details, the shape, how smooth it looks. Now try, without moving your arm or hand in real life, {to} imagine a hand grabbing the apple.

Should have a "to", lest the sentence read "Now try imagine a hand grabbing the apple."

(02-13-2017, 05:19 AM)LostOne Wrote: Whether it be eating an apple or throwing a tennis ball at an imaginary wall, hearing it thud against the wall and feel it slap on your hand as you catch it. Alternatively, if you already have a tulpa, you can have them help in many ways as well.

Should read something like "and feeling it slap your hand as you catch it." You could just add an -ing to "feel", but it reads weird as it is.

(02-13-2017, 05:19 AM)LostOne Wrote: I recommend first getting somewhere comfortable and relaxed, where you have time and quietness, and close your eyes for the first few times. Start small, like a room with a bed or couch. I recommend using a bed or couch you know well, and imagine it in a room with maybe a few small things. Take a bit of time using this room to do more exercises immersing yourself into your imagination. Make sure you are using you imagined form to feel and see, as your intent should be to disconnect from your physical senses. Your wonderland is not out in reality and thus you will not need your senses out in reality. You need to use your senses in your wonderland. Mostly, after some time and patience you will find it easier to go into wonderland and able to go deeply into it, and with constant practice you likely will have all of this down quickly.

Tense of "close" should be "closing". "you" should be "your". "Mostly," doesn't make much sense and is kind of extraneous anyways, so you could remove it and start the sentence with "After some time".

(02-13-2017, 05:19 AM)LostOne Wrote: Once you have your room done and are able to go into wonderland decently, then expand on it. Make more rooms, a hallway, maybe even the whole house and beyond. Just make sure to keep up the practice as you do so. You will only get better with time and patience.

"then" doesn't quite work after "Once you have", you can either remove it or replace it with something like "it's time to".

(02-13-2017, 05:19 AM)LostOne Wrote: Mostly, have an idea of what you want from your tulpa. Imagine them with you in wonderland, and mostly start by talking with them in wonderland. You can make a form for them if you want. Explain what they are, what you would like from them, talk about whatever you please. Ask questions to them and listen for responses back. At first you can puppet the responses, it does no harm to puppet a new tulpa. Just do your best to know that it won't always be a puppeted response.

Should be "Ask them questions". Puppeting refers to you moving their wonderland form around, parroting refers to you imagining them speaking. Unless you're talking about physical responses, you're probably talking about parroting. Puppeting isn't bad either, though it's nowhere near as common an issue as parroting. They aren't so interchangeable, now that I'm seeing them in use.

(02-13-2017, 05:19 AM)LostOne Wrote: Ask them questions. If you made a form, move it around and get a good look of it. Puppeting their form for a while will also help them gain footing to controlling themselves. Do something with them in wonderland, like tennis or video-games. If they want to explore wonderland, explore it with them. If they want to change something in wonderland, let them. Go on from there and transfer what you find out in reality, and I suggest looking into other guides for further tulpa-building.

"of" should be "at". "transfer what you find out in reality" should probably be rewritten, it doesn't make sense at first. Maybe "take inspiration from reality".


At this point, you start saying "a wonderland" instead of just "wonderland", before going back to not. Putting "a" or "the" before "wonderland" is the better way to write it in general.
(02-13-2017, 05:19 AM)LostOne Wrote: This section is more for hosts who already have a tulpa but may not have made a wonderland. This may be a rarer occurrence but does still happen, and maybe you and your tulpa is curious on creating a wonderland. Mostly, with all that I have said up above on immersing yourself in, make sure your tulpa does so too. They may need to immerse into it as much as you, as some tulpas that were not born in wonderland may not have as much experience going in and out of it. Make sure they work on these exercises as well. Only real other thing is that you two can use starting wonderland as a bonding activity.

"is" should be "are". I guess I know what you're going for with the "Mostly,"'s, but that specific word doesn't really work and can again be removed altogether, starting with "With all that I have said". "in" should be removed, or extended to "in the wonderland", but I'd just remove it. "Only" should at least have a "The" before it. And "starting wonderland" is still really bad, not saying "your/the/a" before "wonderland" implies "Wonderland" should be a proper noun, as if it's a name and there is only one.

(02-13-2017, 05:19 AM)LostOne Wrote: If your tulpa does have a wonderland that you never visited, and you have problems with keeping a form in wonderland, then try have them imagine a form for you while you control the form. It should be like the tulpa is imposing you into their wonderland much like how many hosts impose their tulpa out in our reality. Ease into the form and immerse into it, gain control of it while your tulpa lets go of controlling it. Don't forget to do immersive exercises as well, being imposed into wonderland doesn't guarantee that you will feel and see it as if it is real. I can’t guarantee this will work perfectly, but like with anything, it takes practice. After you and the tulpa do this for a while, you should work on making the form yourself without their aid.
Note that this is only a suggestion, your milage may vary, and don’t forget to try other things if the above doesn’t work.

"have" should be "having", or add a "to" before it. "milage" should be "mileage".

(02-13-2017, 05:19 AM)LostOne Wrote: This does include everything. Your social life, your work/school, down to personal habits. They also should have a general good idea on possessing the body, and I recommend testing how they like life out possessing before doing any type of switching.

You're probably going for "I recommend testing out how they like life through possessing". You can also just replace "out" with "through".

(02-13-2017, 05:19 AM)LostOne Wrote: You also need to make sure you can think for yourself while switched, with the tulpa still being able to do whatever they want without being pulled back. If it becomes too much of a hassle for them and for you, go back and work on some of that yourself before trying to continue.

"pulled" should be "held".

(02-13-2017, 05:19 AM)LostOne Wrote: Just remember, when you switch, it's not your body anymore. It's the tulpas body. If they want to do something, it's their choice to. If this makes you feel uneasy, you can set up a schedule or rules. (Or alternatively, don’t switch, as switching does require a lot of dedication on both your and the tulpas part.) You both should be able to follow the rules you make, and if they debate a rule, listen and sort out an agreement.

Both "tulpas" should be "tulpa's".

(02-13-2017, 05:19 AM)LostOne Wrote: Last bit here, wonderland is an amazing place, as you can do anything you want with it. It's all under your and your tulpas control.

"tulpas" should be "tulpa's", assuming you're talking about just one. Tulpas' if multiple.

(02-13-2017, 05:19 AM)LostOne Wrote: On the subject of walk-ins, I personally have never had them. On the flip side of that though, I also came into making tulpas on purpose with no prior experience with them.

"On the flip side" is a little weird/unique, so saying it twice in a row isn't the best idea. You can replace the whole thing with "However,".

(02-13-2017, 05:19 AM)LostOne Wrote: Some possible not-so-good side-effects of wonderlanding a lot include increased mental exhaustion, possible existential crises, a lost of a sense of self which may worsen with making a tulpa, and a possible loss in motivation to do anything in reality.

Should be "a loss of sense of self", I guess. The term for this is dissociation.

(02-13-2017, 05:19 AM)LostOne Wrote: The terms not in the extra hidden tag is at least mentioned somewhere in here, if me or Sam didn’t change it.

"is" should be "are".

(02-13-2017, 05:19 AM)LostOne Wrote: These past here in the hidden tag do not appear in this guide but I believe may need to know, or that need clearer definitions. Likely will remove this section in V 1.0, whenever that comes around.

"may be good to know" might be better to say. Otherwise you'll have to make it "I believe you may need to know". "that" should be removed (just ", or need clearer definitions") with how the sentence is written.

(02-13-2017, 05:19 AM)LostOne Wrote: If any of the mods or other systems want to debate on terminology, please do direct me to what the terms really are and get the community to actually use it correct.

Should be "correctly", I guess? You might as well remove this part of the disclaimer though, as you had one at the top that was good.

And that's it. Don't know what to say about the "wonderland" thing, it's such an integral part of the guide that changing how you used the term may be too excessive, you'd have to fill in "a"'s and "the"'s and "your"'s all over the place. If you do decide to do that, you can tell me if you'd like and I'll do it for you, because if you wrote it this way in the first place you might find picking which words to use tricky.

Hi. I'm one of Luminesce's tulpas. Unlike the others, I don't think I stand out too much from him personality wise.
I'm just special because "I'm a tulpa". So I don't think I've much to offer, here. I'm happy enough to just be with him.
Ask us stuff - https://community.tulpa.info/thread-ask-lumi-s-tulpas
(This post was last modified: 02-15-2017, 08:00 PM by Flandre.)
02-15-2017, 07:58 PM
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LostOne Offline
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#29
 
RE: Wonderland: Tips, Tricks, And Basics For Hosts
K: Jeez, and I thought the community was on edge before...
K: I actually, reading through all this, do agree with Flandre's definition. Switching being when the previous person (In this case, the host) completely, and repeat, COMPLETELY disconnects from the body while another (Normally the tulpa) Goes in the body and uses it like the host would. I certainly am not saying the host needs to be in wonderland. They can be imposed into a form out of the body in reality. They could dormant out and, to quote a term, 'lose time'. Just as long as they aren't fronting, losing senses of it or whatnot, it's a switch. The fact that many people still argue over this is one reason I have on numerous occasions almost said screw it and dropped out of the community. It's also why I am not going to change the terminology on the guide until tulpa.info has an official glossary that is decent, and Sam wont be either. Sorry to those who want it changed, I'm not.
S: Sands and Flandre, you both were saying the same definition. I have a feeling one of you weren't reading the whole argument of the other, not to name names. Or I could also just say you both might not have.
S: Also, Tulpa001, I do like you and all, but where in the heck did you get that definition? It's both vague and doesn't define well. I know I said something on it earlier but still...

Wait, I thought you said WEAST.
Kyle (Host, original, possibly emotionally unstable on occasion)
Sam (First, protector, careful with everything, " " around some old posts) - https://community.tulpa.info/user-two-tailed-tulpa
Clara (Originally Kylee, playful, more than meets the eye, < > around old posts)
Jessi (Quiet, kind, random southern accent, { } around old posts)

02-15-2017, 08:02 PM
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Flandre Offline
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#30
 
RE: Wonderland: Tips, Tricks, And Basics For Hosts
Don't know why you'd "agree with my definition" when mine was yours. Sands and Lumi talked about the nature of our "switching" a long time ago, and through what I'm sure was just miscommunication "disagreed" on said definition. There's this idea that we're changing said definition to what we want it to be. But I've honestly never been able to tell how what we do is different from his definition. Archaic definitions of the term stated the host would go to the wonderland, and I think that might be it, as we don't live in our wonderland and are typically "inactive" when not being focused on by whoever's fronting. That sounds so petty though. We can switch into and out of the wonderland if we want, but we don't, we use the mindspace, which is sort of like a bubble around our body. It's akin to imposition, and in fact they can transition into each other fine, though it doesn't even require having our eyes open so calling it that is iffy.

Anyways, half of the argument wasn't even from this thread, but I messed up and made him bring it up again with my poor wording. There is no problem.

Hi. I'm one of Luminesce's tulpas. Unlike the others, I don't think I stand out too much from him personality wise.
I'm just special because "I'm a tulpa". So I don't think I've much to offer, here. I'm happy enough to just be with him.
Ask us stuff - https://community.tulpa.info/thread-ask-lumi-s-tulpas
(This post was last modified: 02-15-2017, 08:08 PM by Flandre.)
02-15-2017, 08:07 PM
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