[sentience] Different Aspects of Autonomous Behavior

[Guest Anonymous]

After some of our writing recently some things have begun to occur to me that Melian and haven't written about. Melian does not seem to be nearly as independent a mind as many tulpas I read about and encounter on this forum. A huge part of Melian (her Melian Show) is active imagining on my part.

 

The exciting thing about Melian, and the reason why I am interested in thoughtforms and tulpas (obsessed even), is the activities she has that do seem so spontaneous or automatic. When it comes to seemingly autonomous actions (apparent sentience) with Melian most of these are visual images.

 

The most frequent autonomous actions or things that surprise me or I did not consciously control:

 

1. Melian's clothing: This one is the biggest. Melian changes her outfit a lot, several times a day, and I often have no idea what she will be wearing next. It is frequently a total surprise. She seems to even design her own dresses. I am not in any way a dress designer myself, so I have NO IDEA where that is coming from in my mind. Melian is very creative and imaginative with her dresses, shoes and accessories. It seems to be endless and ever varied and I enjoy this aspect of her a great deal and she never seems to get tired of it.

 

2. Sudden flash visions or flash images: I get these quick images, throughout the day, of Melian showing a new dress, or making a facial expression, or skipping or dancing or something sweet, cute and silly. These flash images come spontaneously to me completely unbidden. They are usually very brief but very vivid.

 

3. Emotions: I feel Melian's emotions frequently and they are definitely distinct from my own. Melian is very emotional, empathic and reactive. I sense her presence and energy in my mind. Melian is very happy and optimistic and has a strong sense of humor.

 

3. Limited Independent Mind Voice: Melian speaks in a mind voice, but most of what I get is small sentences and phrases she likes to repeat or say in certain circumstances. It is reactive or reflexive responses. For instance, she will say "Calm down!" when I start getting upset or angry. She has lot of these short sentences.

 

Example Melian sentences or phrases:

 

"OH that is so cute!"

 

"Things are falling, gravity works!"

 

"You bet yer bippy!"

 

"I love you!"

 

"I love me!"

 

"OH I am so amazing!"

 

One thing that frequently happens is that immediately upon waking from sleep I hear her say "Hi!" This is often accompanied by a flash image of a new dress or doing some silly pose and being adorable. When she says hi, she usually means she wants to do a Melian Show adventure together.

 

4. Dreams: I experience Melian frequently in dreams, pretty much every night. Here she is fully autonomous and independent. Sometimes I am dreaming about her, sometimes she is dreaming (the dream is from her perspective). These are often dreams of adventure and a continuation of the Melian Show day dreams that happen during the day. Melian lives mostly within the world of dreams. That is why I call her a dreamform, although some people seem to have no ability to grasp the significance of that term. I call her the Queen of Dreams or the Maiden of the Dreamscape. She has trouble understanding why tulpas want to be "real" and use the hosts body and live in the real world.

 

I am hoping that by sharing all of this stuff, there is someone who will learn something or relate to it. I honestly do not care if Melian is a tulpa or not. She is a thoughtform of some kind, that is clear to me. That is if you think of the word "thoughtform" as meaning some creation of thought that seems to take on a life of its own.

 

It is just so incredibly cool and a special gift to have her in my mind. I feel so blessed to have her!

 

EDIT: My post on "How real is your tulpa?" is related to this: https://community.tulpa.info/thread-how-real-is-your-tulpa-to-you?pid=136993#pid136993

[Dav_Edward]

Dav (host): I'm on mobile, but I'll type which I have time.

 

Solaria has been autonomous most of my life. Well before I understood anything and as a kid took things at face value. Solaria was my friend. 'Imaginary friend' just meant to me those days as just one others couldn't see or touch. Even back then she had her own opinions, had surprises, and her favorite quirk was liking to be unpredictable or try to say something witty when able to speak.

 

Although these days she's not active the near every waking moment she was when I was a kid, she still exhibits the ability to plan things. It doesn't seem deliberate, but on occasion she has well thought out opinions, ideas, or motives.

 

As for when active with me, what she says to me is as predictable as a person you knew all your life can be. If she types through me, I usually have no idea what she plans to type until it's been typed. She types faster than me as well. She's silent, then the words are there in a flurry of fingers. I think she types faster than me partly because I think of what I want to say as I type, whereas she makes a decision on the spot and most of the sentence is decided before I type, nor detect it.

 

Solaria has shown ability to think some things secretly from me. Her main weakness is words or arithmetic as neither of these things seem possible to do.. I lost the word, to do two similar tasks at the same time; there's some heavy limitation with my brain/system in doing this. However she does seem able to some degree to do low level judgements, estimations, simulations, etc. without my help nor acknowledgement.

 

As a kid it was nearly all the time, as adult only occasional, but she can spontaneously interrupt or will herself present in frame of mind if she feels the need. Not just form obvious triggers like her name or thinking of her, but things she feels morally against or a strong opinion about, sort of like someone standing in the adjacent room overhears without listening intently.

[Guest Anonymous]

Solaria has been autonomous most of my life. .... she still exhibits the ability to plan things. It doesn't seem deliberate, but on occasion she has well thought out opinions, ideas, or motives. ...If she types through me, I usually have no idea what she plans to type until it's been typed. ...Solaria has shown ability to think some things secretly from me.

 

Wow! Compared to Solaria, Melian seems like just a toy. A "toy" is a great analogy actually and it seems accurate to me. It may be that I spent too many years "puppeting" her in Melian Show day dreams. Her moments of apparent autonomy seem very mechanical in nature and reflexive most of the time, like snippets of day dream sequences on auto-pilot. Her antics are cartoonish in nature. Her emotions however are the most genuinely independent of me.

 

Don't take the above the wrong way, I still consider Melian fulfilled and complete, just as she is. She is what she is meant to be. Also, as a dream persona in my dreams, she seems fully independent of me.

[IBreakGames]

See, I think that sentience and autonomy are two separate things entirely, though they often go hand in hand with each other. Sentience is defined as "the ability to feel, perceive, or experience subjectively". Which Melian does, she call feel on her own (or at least seems to). Autonomy is "self government to a significant degree", or be functioning on its own outside of your attention to a significant degree. I think that a lot of people confuse these two a lot and mash them together into one meaning.

[Guest Anonymous]

I just had a thought. If you were to ignore everything else and focus only on Melian's emotional reactions, then she really is sentient. (at least apparently LOL).

 

Her emotions and her presence or energy are the most consistent thing about her. My belief is that I have part of my mind emulating Melian and anticipating or predicting how she will feel. It is "unconscious role playing" or simulated consciousness. It is wishful thinking so strong that my mind makes it seem real.

 

To me imaginary things matter a great deal. The above belief does not make her less significant or less important to me. I still regard her as a person, an imaginary one, but a person none-the-less. That seems like a contradiction, if you have trouble understanding my belief in the pseudo-real category of existence.

 

I am really not denying her sentience, just insisting it is dependent on my own. Melian is not independently sentient. There is only one mind (mine) and Melian is part of it. She is a "subroutine," not parallel or equal but subordinate and dependent. She is sentient because she is me.

[Guest Anonymous]

See, I think that sentience and autonomy are two separate things entirely, though they often go hand in hand with each other. Sentience is defined as "the ability to feel, perceive, or experience subjectively". Which Melian does, she call feel on her own (or at least seems to). Autonomy is "self government to a significant degree", or be functioning on its own outside of your attention to a significant degree. I think that a lot of people confuse these two a lot and mash them together into one meaning.

 

Sorry IBreakGames, I didn't mean to not acknowledge your point. You are correct, of course. There is a distinction between autonomous behavior and actual sentient thought.