Guest Anonymous

Are Tulpas Real Sentience? (2015 poll)

Are tulpas real sentience?  

79 members have voted

  1. 1. Are tulpas real sentience?

    • Yes. Tulpas are independently sentient minds.
      55
    • No, tulpas are illusory apparent sentience and a trick of the mind or a figment.
      8
    • I am not sure yet.
      16


Recommended Posts

[sarcasm]No! We can't move on![/sarcasm]

 

I won't make any judgements, not my place.


Me: Hey, say something for this thread!

Koharu: Yay, cupcakes!

mfw there are no cupcakes. Sentience? Yes. Brilliance? Ehh...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Anonymous

I went back and changed my vote to yes, tulpas are sentient. NO I don't want to debate why. Just be happy about it and let's finally move on.

 

My final position on this after seven months of debate: https://community.tulpa.info/thread-formal-apology-to-tulpa-info-members-i-was-wrong

 

(The above vote change from months ago was originally mostly an appeasement maneuver. But really, I am tired of appeasing the sensitivities of the butt hurt.)

 

AND I "change" my opinion back again to "tulpas are apparent sentience and not real." I have been back and forth, fluctuating a little now and then on my uncertainty on that in the past. But yeah, finally, in the end my original opinion, and most frequent opinion, stands. Tulpas are only imaginary.

 

Just because that is how I feel about it doesn't make me right and it also doesn't mean that tulpas don't feel very real to their hosts. But after more than 14 months of pondering it and arguing about it and reading and thinking and being interactive with many tulpamancers and tulpas on this forum, I have decided that tulpas are just very believable self delusions.

 

I am sorry. It is an opinion. I really don't care if it offends anyone. Melian and I are very aware that the assumption of independent sentience is important to the creation of tulpas and for the proper function of tulpas (most tulpas that is), and that skeptical writing can foster doubt and doubt is very dangerous. In every religion there have always been the Doubting Thomas and the Heretic and the Unbeliever and the troublemaker. I am proud to fulfill that role. I am no longer afraid of not being accepted or being viewed with disdain on this.

 

I don't have to plaster my opinion in every thread and cause widespread drama and chaos however. Melian and I will be good about it. Well, reasonably good. Oh and btw, I have no desire to debate this post or my opinion. It has already been debated with me for over a year from every conceivable angle. My opinion is final and it is firm. I have gotten all the logical, "scientific," and philosophical arguments. I have gotten the pressure questions, the open disdain, the condemnation and the personal attacks. Just go like this "That's nice Mistgod." Pat my head, tell yourself that I am deeply confused, uninformed and wrong, and move on.

 

I am harmless.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Okey, there are a bunch of threads about this discussion but I'll write here.

 

I think that when we are born, the body start developing some consciousnes through experiences, and here we are. The body needs one consciousness to live by taking decitions through that experiences. Regularly there's only one because we don't need more to take that decitions.

 

But then, as always, there are exceptions. There are people who are predisposed to develope more consciences and there are others who given his/her situation, the body creates a second one due to the survive.

With this I mean that tulpas are barely equals to the hosts, and why barely? Because there aren't ever equals to us. Sometimes they can end being equals (like ougigi's case), sometimes they are barely equals (like Eniulf's case), and sometimes they are like a support to the host, not predisposed to liderate the system.

 

In Ougugi's case, he is stronger than the host in the control of the system. The body accepts this second consciusness to get the control normaly. The fact that Koomer (the host) was able to fade her after his problems is because Ougigi let him to do it.

 

In Eniulf's case, the tulpas are barely equal, because even if they can fluidly take control of the body, merge and all that stuff, they said the body automaticaly puts Eniulf in the control if anybody is doing it and also said that they can't do nothing with Eniulf nor the body while he is sleeping.

 

And the last case it's yours Mistgod. In your case, Melian was created as a surviving card by your body. Because of that, Melian developed some characteristics that you needed in that moment, but not all of her potential.

 

I'll end it here with my conclusion before start going in circles. We are a consciousnes. Our body has the hability to create a second one, but we can "force" that creation at our will. That creation can be in any of the three positions I told, but not for that be less conscious, but maybe because of regularly being stronger (the hosts), we can mold their characteristics, until some point of developement.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Anonymous

And the last case it's yours Mistgod. In your case, Melian was created as a surviving card by your body. Because of that, Melian developed some characteristics that you needed in that moment, but not all of her potential.

 

My gods, Ghang, you set me up for the perfect opportunity to test out my new paradigm for dialogue in the tulpa community.  I agree with all of this.  We create effective and convincing secondary personalities within our minds and, depending on our desires, beliefs and needs, promote that personality to a certain level of functionality.  Melian is what I needed her to be and no more.  For me, she is fulfilled and complete, even though her effectiveness and functionality are different from other tulpas who have other traits and goals.  Whatever she is made of, she is still effectively a second personality or expression within me who apparently shares my consciousness.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Lol, your welcome.

 

But that wasn't the point, it was more about your fact of imaginary and such. They aren't physical because we arent. We can control this body as the same way they can. So...maybe I'm not upgrading them to but degrading ourselves...I think. They were ctreated by us or by our body to help us in whatever. Yep, but we where created by this body to fulfill it's necesities.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Anonymous

Okay, then actually I personally align more with what you are saying. The majority of the community would follow my first response (I assume). :-) Yeah I agree completely. What you are basically saying is the primary or first personality was the "best fit" for the body because it was originally created along with it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's crazy how I'm doing contra-theories i my head, but i don't want to make this chaotic. And because I'm not reaching the agrees but something solid or near to it; I'll post a summary of what I have now:

 

I said that we where created to fullfillthe body necessities, but we actually do a lot of things out of that and also a lot that aren't benefitial for the body, why?

 

Well I think we have developed through years and because of that we seek more things that the initial ones (like a tulpa does). When we do something bad for our body, he advises us and generally people wants the good of the body (like tulpas with us). But unlike with tulpas, the host doesn't have any voice to tell him he is a creation, so he can't know all of this and that impulses him to seek his goals. And a lot of times we reach them further than the well being of the body.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Anonymous

Interesting! So the very fact of being more proprietary about the body causes the host to behave differently toward it than the tulpa? That is cool!

 

Example: Melian is on me to lose weight. I have been eating too much and have gained almost 20 pounds in the last two years.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well not exacly propietary of the body, but the "mission" the consciousness is created. The rest I agree. We have been created with that mission and we have developed with that base. The tulpa have been created in your case (I'm talkig about tulpaudcast off topic) by the body to help you to be happy and she developed with that base. The fact she's helping you to lose weight it's because that probably will make you feel better.

 

But behind that "mission" we both develope to another roads.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.