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Tulpae, how do you feel when trespassed by physical objects/people?


AracnidsGrip/Rick

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I don't live in the real world at all. So this isn't an issue.

 

Also, Davie and I just talked recently about how a tulpa's mind is separate from it's image. So, I don't see how it would be harmful to to a tulpa for its imposed form to be trespassed upon, only maybe a little annoying.

 

EDIT: A tulpa's imposed form has no physical manifestation, only a psychological one, so any effects (feeling pain, electricity or pressure) must be a figment of imagination.

 

EDIT: Contemplating this even more made me realize this thought experiment concerning physical objects and people trespassing on an imposed tulpa's form is a like a proof that at least the imposed form of a tulpa is illusory. Therefore an imposed tulpa is at least partially only a figment of imagination. It follows, for me at least, that a tulpas form in general is also a figment, even if the tulpa's mind is true sentience. Be careful what you feed me to work with intellectually.

 

Um, isn't this pretty obvious? Of course the tulpa's imposed form is illusory, they don't have a physical body.

 

Also, have you ever heard of phantom limb syndrome? Even if the limb is gone, it feels like it's right there and the person feels the pain. It's much more than just being a figment of their imagination considering the brain still associates the leg to be there. It's both neurological and psychological. Neurological because the nerves that use to associate with the missing leg are still in the brain, thus affecting it.

 

I think this concept can apply to tulpas and their imposed bodies, but considering they start off without a body upon creation, this feeling can vary. This is a theory, of course.

I have 10 tulpas, but I'm only actively working on Reah, my first tulpa currently.

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Guest Anonymous

I realize that they don't have a physical body and that is obvious. What I am saying is that there is some make believe to the supposedly real tulpas. A big part of them is associated with their forms. Everything that happens with a tulpas form is a type of make believe.

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It's expectation that cause the effect. If you or your tupla expects pain or discomfort, they'll feel discomfort because you believed it would.

 

The image you impose on the world is an avatar the tupla links up to. Your mind applies stimulus the same way your dreams make you feel things in the dream even though the entire dream is an illusion.

 

It's essentially similar to the placebo / nocebo effect.

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My tulpas are only as bothered as they want to be. I know Flan used to get annoyed when people would sit on her in my lecture classes, and I'm sure Lucilyn would feel the same. Reisen just moves out of them, and Tewi is likely to do something ridiculous to try and make me laugh. The only time my tulpas ever almost made me laugh out loud in public was Tewi walking inside of someone and giving them bunny ears, with hers. Totally unexpected.. And I'm pretty sure she'll take that opportunity whenever she finds it.

 

I read this and the other thread about imposition form being illusion, and I don't really understand. Yes? I would compare imposition's realness to visualization's realness. My tulpas feel the same way when they're imposed that I feel when visualizing myself in the wonderland. IE, it feels like I'm there, and I'll react and act accordingly, but it's an immersive illusion that you can distance yourself from by no longer considering yourself in it. Aside from that, I'm less worried about what of the tulpa is real to me, and more what of our experience is real to them. Normal wonderlanding is as real as anything can get for them as far as physical things go, but in the end, yes, they are only very closely identified to the forms they consider them. At their basest they are a simulated person in your mind, so whether they really feel anything is debatable.

 

But uh, yeah. Video games, horror games and movies, books... Oculus Rift roller coaster rides... Humans don't usually worry about how real something really is or isn't, but how it affects them. Many humans cannot force themselves to continue playing a horror game or movie when they're too scared even though it can't really affect them. So is that not its own type of realness? The definition of "Illusion" implies something is fake, or perceived incorrectly. But I think we're talking about something more than that, non-physical realness. You can say it doesn't logically exist all you want, but the entire history of humanity disagrees.

Hi! I'm Lumi, host of Reisen, Tewi, Flandre and Lucilyn.

Everyone deserves to love and be loved. It's human nature.

My tulpas and I have a Q&A thread, which was the first (and largest) of its kind. Feel free to ask us about tulpamancy stuff there.

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Guest Anonymous

But uh, yeah. Video games, horror games and movies, books... Oculus Rift roller coaster rides... Humans don't usually worry about how real something really is or isn't, but how it affects them. Many humans cannot force themselves to continue playing a horror game or movie when they're too scared even though it can't really affect them. So is that not its own type of realness? The definition of "Illusion" implies something is fake, or perceived incorrectly. But I think we're talking about something more than that, non-physical realness. You can say it doesn't logically exist all you want, but the entire history of humanity disagrees.

 

My gods, this is what I mean by pseudo-real! LOL

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Luna: We used to feel a slight tingling sensation when someone/something passed through us, but nothing at all now. We just kinda clip through things like it's a video game.

"Science isn't about why, science is about why not?" -Cave Johnson

Tulpae: Luna, Elise, Naomi

My progress report

 

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Mistgod, and anyone else this may interest, here's an easy example of how 'expectation' screws with sensory input.

Put ice cold water in a tea kettle or electric kettle. Tell someone that the water is hot (not boiling, just 'hot'), and ask them to hold their hand out and pour a fair sized splash on their hands. They'll sense the extreme temperature difference but will withdraw and act like they just got burned, even though the water was cold. This is because they expected it to be hot and their nervous system can only report for the first instant that there is a major temperature difference, but the sense of 'hot' and 'cold' is a much slower perception. For the first second or two they'll completely believe you burned them until the cold sensation catches up.

 

If this false perception can be so easily applied at the physical level, and we all know how real it is in dreams, imagine if your body were entirely created from a perception. Your idea of physics and sensation are all completely provided by perception with nothing physical anchoring it. Welcome to the life as a tulpa. Perception and expectation drive your senses. If you or your host, lets just say if the 'system' expects something to be true, it'll apply to you.

 

I remember when I was little Solaria avoided physical objects quite deftly as if such things might hurt her. Yet when I thought it over very carefully, and the number of cases where unexpected things went through her before she could react; I realized the physical world doesn't harm her, and from that point forward she flies through objects if it's an inconvenience to otherwise dodge. Why dodge at all? Mostly because it's a comfort thing. I'm pretty sure most people if they had ghost powers to walk through anything, once the initial amusement wears off, they'd continue to walk around things unless it required effort.

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Guest Anonymous

Okay, you guys have convinced me. It takes a while, but my lunk head does learn. This past week or so has been a major turn around point for me. I still consider thoughtforms to be only a mental figment of some kind and hallucinatory in nature. But, I have finally come to realize, after seven and a half months of total Mistgod War, there can be a kind of subjective apparent sentience that seems real enough to the host to regard it as real. That is all that matters in the end.

 

Illusion, figment, projected visualization, voluntary self delusion. None of that matters in the end with how it relates to the tulpa. The fact of sentience is not what is important. All that matters is that the final experience the host is having and that he or she regards it is a sentient being.

 

There was a stubborn fog over my eyes. I was contradicting myself. For a long time I was saying Melian is an illusion and non-sentient, but yet a person. I have always regarded her as a person. What is stupid is saying some one is a person is saying they are sentient. I just refused to admit it. I am not totally sure why, but I think it had something to do with how other people (non-tulpamancers) will react to me saying Melian is "sentient." "Imaginary person" sounds a little less crazy than "sentient tulpa in my head."

 

Don't get me wrong. Melian is still, in my opinion, an imaginary "pseudo-real" person. But she is apparently sentient and I regard her and treat her as a real sentient person. Just as I do all tulpas.

 

I know, almost 180 degree turn. But, that is why I came to this forum. I came here to share and to learn. Thank you.

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