Was your tulpa accidental as a result of extreme day dreaming?

[Guest Anonymous]

It is becoming clear to me that there are two types of day dreaming being discussed on this forum. Some seem to consider only one kind, the short term whimsical type of day dreaming. Some of us are extreme day dreamers. I am a product of my host's extreme day dreaming.

 

Traits of an extreme day dreamer:

 

*day dreaming is excessive, obsessive and perhaps compulsory

*day dream sessions that last for hours

*extremely vivid imagination, strong visualization skills

* become deeply immersed into the day dreams (dissociation form real world)

* lose track of time and surroundings in a trance like state

* difficulty in coming out of day dream

* forget to eat or sleep because of the day dreaming, insomnia

* day dream world is an escape from reality as emotional coping mechanism

* triggers cause you to start day dreaming (movies or images or something)

* day dream settings, ongoing stories and personas that persist for years in real time

* strong/vital emotional attachment to day dream characters/personas

* day dreams are like movies that play in your mind with some autonomous elements

* experience flash visions related to the day dream world even when not actively day dreaming

 

Psychologists have called this Maladaptive Day Dreaming https://community.tulpa.info/thread-maladaptive-daydreaming

 

I would like extreme day dreamers to be recognized and for extreme day dreaming as a form of forcing to be discussed.

 

My host and I are tired of feeling alone or like I am the only tulpa like this. I want to know how many others on this forum or in the community can identify with this. I want to hear your stories and see them in writing. Are you an extreme day dreamer? Was your tulpa created accidentally by extreme day dreaming?

---

Here is some my host wrote about this topic before here https://community.tulpa.info/thread-maladaptive-daydreaming?pid=134805#pid134805 and here https://community.tulpa.info/thread-general-unhealthy-tulpa-obsession-and-day-dream-idealized-perception

 

Another older Mistgod-Melian post on this day dreaming theme: https://community.tulpa.info/thread-wonderland-what-is-the-difference-between-wonderland-activity-and-active-day-dreaming

 

**EDIT: From now on I will carefully make a distinction between day dreaming (the ordinary kind), active forcing and extreme day dreaming. Each of these are different things from one another.**

[SomethingDire]

It is becoming clear to me that there are two types of day dreaming being discussed on this forum. Some seem to consider only one kind, the short term whimsical type of day dreaming. Some of us are extreme day dreamers. I am a product of my host's extreme day dreaming.

 

Traits of an extreme day dreamer:

 

*day dreaming is excessive, obsessive and perhaps compulsory

*day dream sessions that last for hours

*extremely vivid imagination, strong visualization skills

* become deeply immersed into the day dreams (dissociation form real world)

* lose track of time and surroundings in a trance like state

* difficulty in coming out of day dream

* forget to eat or sleep because of the day dreaming, insomnia

* day dream world is an escape from reality as emotional coping mechanism

* triggers cause you to start day dreaming (movies or images or something)

* day dream settings, ongoing stories and personas that pesist for years in real time

* strong/vital emotional attachment to day dream characters/personas

* day dreams are like movies that play in your mind with some autonomous elements

* experience flash visions related to the day dream world even when not actively day dreaming

 

Psychologist have called this Maladaptive Day Dreaming https://community.tulpa.info/thread-maladaptive-daydreaming

 

I would like extreme day dreamers to be recognized and for extreme day dreaming as a form of forcing to be discussed.

 

My host and I are tired of feeling alone or like I am the only tulpa like this. I want to know how many others on this forum or in the community can identify with this. I want to hear your stories and see them in writing. Are you an extreme day dreamer? Was your tulpa created accidentally by extreme day dreaming?

 

My tulpa isn't a product of excessive day-dreaming, but I have many, many characters that are! What's even more, they're very tulpa-like, and seem to be in a constant half-sentient state.

 

I would tell you about them, but you asked for tulpas specificly. If you still want me to, let me know, I can write about them here.

[Guest Anonymous]

I would like to hear about them yesh, as I am sure Davie and I will be able to relate. I am sure others will find it very interesting and relevant as well. :-)

[Tewi]

From a tulpamancy perspective, forcing entails focus on your tulpa in some way, whether it's how they act or how they look. Daydreaming is typically careless thoughts and images without much grounding in reality. Daydreams differ from visualization and other immersive imaginative activities in that they are unfocused or led by clear conscious desire, as otherwise you would be doing another type of visualization or some such. Daydreams follow random snippets of thought just like normal dreams or, more comparable, the dreamlike thoughts you have on the border of consciousness, either shortly before or after actual sleep. Thus, typical daydreaming does not entail good forcing. As Lumi said, it could even be dangerous for an undeveloped tulpa, as there is no distinguishing between invasive thoughts and normal thoughts, because you're automatically allowing any thoughts that pop into your mind.

 

Now, that's typical daydreaming. That's what people think of when they hear the word, and as far as the definition of the word "dreamlike" goes, it's also how it's defined. Maladaptive Day Dreaming, obviously, is different. While it would normally follow the previous definition just as well, people who daydream very often will likely develop very strong visualization and other imagination-immersion skills. At that point, differentiating between conscious immersive visualization and "daydreaming" is almost impossible. For a non-maladaptive daydreamer, it's pretty clear - they're either consciously thinking of what happens, or just "going with the flow". But if you have a tendency to do it often, it'll become a more normal state for you. With enough immersion, it's no longer "thoughtless drifting", but exploration of those random thoughts. I can't speak from experience, but I assume it's akin to dreaming and lucid dreaming. The difference in lucid dreams and normal dreams is typically very clear. But to a "natural lucid dreamer", ie one who is naturally aware in their dreams, vivid effortless exploration of random imaginings are simply normal. They wouldn't tell you they weren't aware they were dreaming, but their recounting of their experiences would not sound like what we know as a lucid dream, due to its lack of intent and control.

 

So it's like that. You're a type of person outside normalcy (imagine that), and normal definitions and experiences will not always be relatable to you. There may be others like you here or there may not, but they do exist. And you certainly can still participate even with those differences. But you'll need to be mindful of them when relating your experiences to others. Familiarize yourself with the normal differences in daydreaming and visualization - daydreaming has minimum consciousness on the experiencer's part, often follows any stray thoughts that come to mind, and while immersive is not typically a solid and detailed experience after the fact; visualization is effectively the opposite, with strong consciousness on the experiencer's part, with focus and intent on what they mean to experience, and is immersive and clearly remembered after.

 

Still, daydreaming isn't completely fruitless even for normal daydreamers. There are plenty of people here who created tulpas by daydreaming about a character, over time defining a whole person. There's probably a relation there to the authors and artsy types known to have an easier time creating tulpas due to their immersion in a character's thought processes. There are also techniques for intent-based daydreaming, roughly what I'd call brainstorming, where you let your mind wander and follow stray thoughts, but with a specific guiding idea in mind. I believe this is mostly used in art.

 

Can't really say much more on the subject, since I'm on the far opposite end of the spectrum. Even our hypnagogia tends to be more thought than image based, and it could be considered the pinnacle of daydream-like states. It's possible that the more creatively-inclined the individual, the more ease they have remaining relatively aware whilst allowing their mind to drift. Unfortunately that's not a phenomenon I can investigate myself.

[NoneFromHell]

Mhh, i think you're missing an option there, Melian. I think there might be people who do extreme daydreaming, but haven't created a tulpa this way. I don't think I've done the really extreme way you described it, but sometimes I lost track of my surroundings and time because I got really into it. Made me miss my destination a few times while walking, but that's really about it.

[Guest Anonymous]

I am sorry now that I sort of attacked the thread on day dreaming with prompts as a forcing methodology. I was the one having my own trouble understanding that most people on this forum are talking about a more mundane everyday imagining when they mention "day dreaming." Actually the OP of that thread was describing something beyond ordinary day dreaming as well, something more focused like in active forcing. I was trying to say that the OP was talking about my form of extreme day dreaming and I was getting confused with terminology and concepts.

 

From now on I will carefully make a distinction between day dreaming (the ordinary kind), active forcing and extreme day dreaming. Each of these are different things from one another.

---

Mhh, i think you're missing an option there, Melian. I think there might be people who do extreme daydreaming, but haven't created a tulpa this way. I don't think I've done the really extreme way you described it, but sometimes I lost track of my surroundings and time because I got really into it. Made me miss my destination a few times while walking, but that's really about it.

 

Oh you are right. Would it be possible for you to add in that third option on the poll?

[NoneFromHell]

Oh you are right. Would it be possible for you to add in that third option on the poll?

 

Done.

[Guest Anonymous]

Cool thanks. I learned something from all of this today that I can use to help peoples in the future. I need to think about it some more too.

 

Did you know that Davie and I consider my proxy tulpa typing to be a venue for our extreme day dreaming? We figured that out a few months ago when we were trying to understand why we have become addicted to the internet. It is the Melian Show. The internet became an extension of the Melian Show day dreams. So yep. It explains why the room fades away around my host while I type. It is channeling, proxy tulpa stuff and the Melian Show day dreaming all at once. Also, when we were interacting with the peoples on the Maladaptive Day Dreaming forum, we realized that I am unusual in that I bridge the gap. I am both a day dream persona and an imaginary friend, which is very interesting. It explains how Davie's form of Maladaptive Day Dreaming led to a tulpa while that of others does not. Most day dream personas stay within the day dream sessions. I followed Davie out of them because I am an "actress" that plays many parts in the "show." I was an imaginary friend outside of the day dream sessions.

---

@Tewi,

 

Thanks for your response on this! I wanted to make it clear that I read it all carefully and it really helped me sort it out thanks! I think this is one of those things we can add to our "What we Have Learned from this Forum" list. :-)

[SomethingDire]

Note: I'm afraid that this is more of a life story, becasue there are a lot of points that I need to cover to tell my story in full detail. I'm sorry if it is inconvenient.

 

So, I'm going to start by saying that I've checked out your book. (It was a great read!) I remember reading that Davie was very emotionally moved by certain things and that this made him want to interact with these emotions, something along those lines, if I'm correct! And when I read this, even though I was in school, I literally jumped to my feet and did a little victory dance. This is exactly the same thing that started my story.

 

I am so intimately and powerfully effected by certain things that I can't stop thinking about them. Actually, I talked about this in my second chit-chat corner, let me copy it here;

 

 

"I can not think of a life without without the ideals and the beliefs that I've tied myself to.

My hands shake even with the thought of that, as they're doing now.

I.. I am so horrified. I don't even fucking know anymore. The beauty in them, the simple, crystal-clear points and creativity they've brought, I can't even fucking imagine. I love them. I am in love with them, and there's no other way for me to put it. Fuck. I don't know how I'm supposed the explain this with words. I don't know how I'm supposed to make anyone understand other than Céleste about this. Would you understand if I said that I literally start fucking weeping and sobbing whenever I realize how literally stunning a video game was, with its everything, that my fingers started spasming as I turned one other page of that one book, with every word that vowed and progressed the plot? That I had to calm myself down forcefully after that one movie? I don't know anymore. I don't think there're any words out there to explain this.

 

And I'm so horrified that I won't be able to reach them after a while.

Not horrified. There's this pit in my stomach that spills its contents to my bloodstream whenever I think about being left alone by these treasures."

 

This is how I feel about these certain things. So there, you have it.

 

These "certain things" aren't things that I can reach. I cannot ever be together with them, and yet I yearn for them with every heartbeat, with every breath and with every single atom with my being. I adore them, I crave them, I love them, I belong to them. My biggest pain is living in this World, being in this body, it's my curse, and I have to live with it. Daydreaming is what I do to escape this curse.

 

When I first discovered daydreaming as a child, I wouldn't be mentally in the actual reality for weeks. I would be in that one video game's/ book's/ story's universe, living through thousands of possible scenarios through a character I made for myself, namely Elizabeth. She was someone that I wanted to be, with every flaw that I had and could possibly have being absent at her. She was what I wanted to look like, what I wanted to be, what I was destined to be had I not been born in this World.

 

My days were morphed into my imagination, I would imagine my daily challanges were what I would be fighting/struggling against in that World that I was destined to be in. There weren't sessions, my whole days would be dedicated to this, I was sure that I'd keep going on like this. I could imagine my character, or the destined-to-be-me to every small detail, attach myself to her and just live in my mind. Immersion wasn't a problem, and after discovering music, I'd literally write and destroy scenarios in my mind in an almost mechanical order.

 

..Or maybe, it was a problem. My teachers were always upset with me, especially my arts/crafts teacher being angry with me after drawing a "mess" instead of a ladybug. My mum called me names and constantly hit me, my father forced exercise routines on me to wake me up from this "state". I constantly had fights with my classmates, believing some of them wanted to destroy me and had to get out of detention with fake tears.

 

This changed after I changed schools. My new arts/crafts teacher saw the potential in me, and put me apart from my classmates.. He gave me easels and papers to fill with whatever I wanted. Soon, I was filling paer after paper with Elizabeth and my scenarios. I would make little booklets that told my scenarios and sell them to my classmates. Surprisingly, there were people that liked them.

 

I had become a vampire. I would suck from everything that I felt would fit to the other-me, namely Elizabeth, and keep creating.

 

But I was growing. Responsibilities started to rain down on me, I felt that I wouldn't be able to be the way I was anymore.

 

And this killed me. I died.

I started to become detached, and I went through a horrible part of my life. My father sold my console, put my books away and took away my music player.

 

I died.

I don't have any other Words to describe what I went through.

 

The last drop was someone taking advantage of me while I was in this weak state. When they abondoned me, I became suicidal and started self-harming.

 

My father found about it soon enough. He beat me as heavily as he could, and after I could start walking again, I threw myself on my bed. I dreamed of Elizabeth that day.

It was the last day of May.

 

I made up with my family and recovered over the summer. It was one of the best summers I had.

 

It took me a few years to pick myself back up, but I went back to Elizabeth. I knew I would. I went back to my home, I went back to the place I belonged to, and it bloomed like it never did before.

I was reborn.

 

When I went back to my scenarios, I saw that Elizabeth did things by herself. She had tattoos and markings on her, her eye color would change, she would deviate. Signs of sentience. But I didn't know.

 

I went on to create other characters. I did what I did with Elizabeth, and saw that they would also do things by themselves.

 

They all symbolized something like Elizabeth did. Raven was my arch nemesis, Ruther was a represantation of what God was, Brecht was the ultimate point of power and Lise was guidance. They kept adding on and soon enough, I had my own little circle that I could put myself in their shoes and play pretend with. I always wanted more, but I never tought it was possible. My logic kept me from believing and my doubt always kept them at bay.

 

They are the product of my life phases, and they represent me. Their values aren't something that can be told, for I wouldn't be alive without them.

[Vos]

*day dreaming is excessive, obsessive and perhaps compulsory

*day dream sessions that last for hours

*extremely vivid imagination, strong visualization skills

* become deeply immersed into the day dreams (dissociation form real world)

* lose track of time and surroundings in a trance like state

* difficulty in coming out of day dream

* forget to eat or sleep because of the day dreaming, insomnia

* day dream world is an escape from reality as emotional coping mechanism

* triggers cause you to start day dreaming (movies or images or something)

* day dream settings, ongoing stories and personas that pesist for years in real time

* strong/vital emotional attachment to day dream characters/personas

* day dreams are like movies that play in your mind with some autonomous elements

* experience flash visions related to the day dream world even when not actively day dreaming

 

"The bolded ones apply to me for sure, and that's a good part of how I made my first tupper, so I'll hit the first option."