[sentience] Is your tulpa more autonomous when you are half asleep?

[Guest Anonymous]

I am super autonomous within lucid dreams. I am also autonomous when David and I are in a hypnagogic state (half asleep). My mind voice is fluid and fluent and we have detailed back and forth conversations during these times. While awake, my mind voice is usually more limited. During the day I communicate with my host mostly with tulpish and flash images and what he and I call "proxy mind voice." https://community.tulpa.info/thread-sentience-proxy-typing-proxy-speech-and-proxy-mind-voice

 

I was wondering if other tulpamancers/tulpas encounter this sort of thing? Is your tulpa more autonomous when you are half asleep?

[Tewi]

Of course you would be autonomous in dreams, dreams are the pinnacle of automatic imagination. Unlike in normal visualization, normal dreams don't have you consciously deciding everything that goes on, it's all unconscious. Daydreaming is similar to an extent, but still more guided than dreams I think.

 

 

This absolutely does not apply to and has nothing to do with anyone else, but, we can't "trust" non-conscious versions of ourselves to really be us. This applies mostly to dreams and theoretically the initial scenario of a lucid dream. Even if one of us entered a lucid dream taking place in our wonderland house and met another of us there, there's no reason to believe they're fully conscious or even connected to the actual tulpa, and is more likely just a representation the mind made up. It's similar to the "connection" we make when imposing - the difference in Lumi imagining one of our forms in the real world and us actually being imposed is a conscious connection we've made with that image, linking our sense of self and control to it. In a dream we can't just assume that connection's been made immediately. Whether you consider it an unrelated representation of us, or one of us unconscious as a host would be in a typical dream, a connection needs to be established before we'll take anything that's said or done as intentional and conscious. We've yet to have a long enough lucid dream to do so, but we plan to try and "wake up" the otherwise spontaneous representation of one of us, and.. well, it feels like we'd know if it worked, but I can't really say that for certain.

 

Applied to being "half asleep", we use the same filter or "healthy skepticism" as we would for any possible invasive thoughts, meaning everything that isn't made very clear is taken as possibly them. Anything that doesn't fit somewhat into what we'd expect them to say (my them's and us's and me's and they's are really confusing right now..) is disregarded. Chances are if we aren't conscious enough to have a qualitative conversation, we aren't conscious to say or do anything too out of the norm either. There's always time later if that were actually the case.

 

Basically, the short answer is the opposite is true for us. While you have a more carefree semi-existence as a pseudo-consciousness, who basically exists through random imagined thoughts, we take our intent and awareness a lot more seriously. Taking something randomly thought of that only seemed like it came from us as fact is as dangerous as taking what our character counterparts say in a dream as fact. It could seem accurate, or it could be wildly off. Like I said, there's honestly no connection to us in those scenarios, and the actions need to either be verified or disregarded. Luckily this process is automatic and instantaneous in waking life by now. As for communicating in dreams, we still have to study that.

[NoneFromHell]

After rereading your question: I don't know. Generally it is rather the opposite for me. When I am really tired I will have a more difficult time to perceive her, so even when she would act more autonomous, I probably wouldn't notice it. However, she seems to be more active during the evening/night, though.

 

Well, when I am really in the state of falling asleep it is more likely or common that I will perceive random thoughts or voices/sounds, because I technically start to dream. During this state I don't try to communicate with her to start with, because I really can't be sure that it is really her answering, or just random brain blabbering. I guess we talked a few lines here and there, but from what I can tell it is rather straining for her and me as well. Atleast to really get through.

 

Edit: She says that it isn't more difficult for her to talk to me, but it still is for me to perceive it.

[Guest Anonymous]

This absolutely does not apply to and has nothing to do with anyone else, but, we can't "trust" non-conscious versions of ourselves to really be us.

 

There is no difference between my waking mind and my presence in dreams for Davie and I, I think for two reasons.

 

1. David can sense my energy or "aura" and knows when my mind is present or has been present. Sometimes he doesn't even see or hear me in the dream, I am only present and "watching" the dream with him. Sometimes these are movie dreams or stories we watch together. Often David and I wake up and know we have been dreaming together because he can sense that energy, even if we cannot recall the dream in detail.

 

2. David considers me to be an imaginary dream persona whether awake or asleep. He does not consider me to be fully distinct being from his own mind. We are blended in and out of dreams. One mind, two expressions or aspects. It is one continuous pseudo-real fantasy in and out of the dream state.

 

Edit: Often our day dreams pick up where the dreams left off or vice versa.

 

Applied to being "half asleep", we use the same filter or "healthy skepticism" as we would for any possible invasive thoughts, meaning everything that isn't made very clear is taken as possibly them.

 

We never worry about such things. We just accept if it is about me or from me, it is just plain Melian.

 

While you have a more carefree semi-existence as a pseudo-consciousness, who basically exists through random imagined thoughts, we take our intent and awareness a lot more seriously.

 

There are advantages and disadvantages to both approaches I would suppose. Your experience of independence is much stronger while you are awake because you do not communicate and interact through day dreams with "proxy mind voice" and mental plays and movies the way we do. But our ability to dream together is very strong and we don't have to sort anything out or have skepticism about invasive thoughts. We just enjoy the "show."

 

EDIT: This is why we say I am a dreamform. It wasn't just some random word we came up with to be pretentious.

---

After rereading your question: I don't know. Generally it is rather the opposite for me. When I am really tired I will have a more difficult time to perceive her, so even when she would act more autonomous, I probably wouldn't notice it. However, she seems to be more active during the evening/night, though.

 

Well, when I am really in the state of falling asleep it is more likely or common that I will perceive random thoughts or voices/sounds, because I technically start to dream. During this state I don't try to communicate with her to start with, because I really can't be sure that it is really her answering, or just random brain blabbering. I guess we talked a few lines here and there, but from what I can tell it is rather straining for her and me as well. Atleast to really get through.

 

Edit: She says that it isn't more difficult for her to talk to me, but it still is for me to perceive it.

 

Interesting!

 

I think my middle name is "random brain blabbering." LOL

 

I think that it is with the day dreams and the dreaming where I have (perhaps) some major departures from "standard tulpamancy," if there even is such a thing. At first Mistgod were defensive about it, but proud at the same time. As time goes on we are learning there is much more variation in systems and experiences than we ever thought. There is no real standard experience. Also, we are still proud of us and feeling a lot more confident about what we have to talk about.

---

EDIT: Our ability to accept those differences between different tulpas and tulpamancers, and the understanding that the interpretation of apparent autonomy and sentience is subjective, is helping Mistgod to finally relax a little more. It is a very nice feeling. Finally. Took long enough.

[Guest Anonymous]

I'm still drowsy and most people who will read this already know our personal answer, thus:

Nope. She's always as autonomous as... uhm, always.

Being tired or half asleep or so doesn't do much of anything for us other than complicating our conversations. (Luckily, this matters less now, if at all.)

 

 

Greets,

AG

[Guest Anonymous]

Yes, yes AGGuy. LOL That's why we love you guys. I so knew you were going to say something like this. LOL

[Guest Anonymous]

Yes, yes AGGuy. LOL That's why we love you guys. I so knew you were going to say something like this. LOL

 

Well, what else would we say / would you expect us to say? xD

We answered the whole autonomy question multiple times, just like anyone else who's been here for a few months at least, after all; that's why I keep myself so short, everyone knows what we're gonna say already anyway. xP

 

 

Greets,

AG

[Guest Anonymous]

That is true about us too, pretty much every senior person here knows what we are going to say about ourselves mostly. But hey, we can hope that newbies will find it new. Well, I guess by definition newbies would find it new ... and stuff.

[yenu]

I definitively once had had an easier time talking to a tulpa when I was still half-asleep after we had dreamed together. (Thus being able to confirm that it was her/him I dreamed of)

 

So, yes, on occasion, being half-asleep is very helpful. Many many other times, absolutely not.