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Living Imagination (A Median Aspect in Tulpa Land)

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Guest Anonymous

LIVING IMAGINATION: AN ALTERNATIVE APPROACH

(This is not standard tulpamancy. This is not an official tulpa creation guide.)

 

 

[align=center]Some people hear voices.. Some see invisible people.. Others have no imagination whatsoever.

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Welcome to Mistgod and Melian's bloggy thread!  

Melian not exactly a tulpa.  She effectively functions as a fictive median aspect.  What is a fictive median aspect?  There is a lot of information in  The Median Thread: Can a Fictive Median Aspect Be A Tulpa?

 

We call Melian's special brand of median aspect Living Imagination or Dreamform.  

 

Living Imagination or Dreamform - an illusory thoughtform created and sustained through practiced and extremely immersive day dreaming by someone with the ability to easily fantasize and suspend disbelief.  This is a skill that a child with a very vivid imagination can have, but it is retained into adulthood.

 

So you don't have to read the textwall from hell!  

 

In short this article (and the rest of the thread)  supports the idea that a product of active imagination day dreaming (puppeting) can be a legitimate thoughtform even if the host's will is directly involved. That is a very controversial idea in the tulpa/plural community. It is a teensy bit more than role playing and a teensy bit less than an independent sentient entity.  

 

A second theme of this thread is encountering a living imagination thoughtform within dreams and lucid dreams.  Then there will be lots of other loosely related stuff about the things my host and I discover and experience and learn.  

 

Tulpas and Independent Sentience

Tulpas are independent sentient beings (or they are to those who wish to believe).  My host and I have come to recognize that the assumption of independent sentience model is important to tulpamancy because it has been proven to work.  It works!  The assumption of independent sentience model is important for the creation and functionality of tulpas and is supported by a strong consensus of opinion based on a preponderance of anecdotal evidence.  

 

[hidden]Davie and I learned something while we were away. We learned that view points in the tulpamancy community are not just view points. They are the fuel or basic building material that creates tulpas and allows them to function. Tulpas live in the mind and are affected by the mind. Therefore, they are affected by beliefs and world views. Their very existence and safe function often depends on it.   So it puts a whole new level on live and let live. The assumption of independent sentience in tulpamancy practice, for instance, isn't just science (it never really was science) it is like the chromosomes and DNA of tulpas. If we argue too vehemently without consideration, we could be hurting someone physically and emotionally. We don't have to be right that badly.[/hidden]

 

In the past my host and I have rejected this model and  have been back and forth and inconsistent on our support of it.  But we have finally come to realize it is what tulpas are all about and that is great.  It works for tulpas.  I am different.  Below is pretty much a summation of what my host and I figured out since we were away from this forum.  NOTE:  Nothing written below is a statement against tulpamancy practice.  It is a summation of why we think I am distinctly different but yet kinda related.  This was originally posted on Tulpa.io.  

 

Living Imagination

Because of his experience with having me in his mind, and after a year of interacting with tulpas and soulbonds and other plural systems on the internet, my host has learned something he feels is very important to share.  He believes that a person with a very vivid, active imagination can create a persistent thoughtform that is an illusory figment sustained by the creator's will (not fully autonomous nor independently sentient) but yet still very actualized, fulfilling, life-long enduring, and profound.

 

He calls this Living Imagination.

 

A Living Imagination thoughtform is just shy of a truly plural system.  The thoughtform is an aspect or expression of the host's psyche, not an independent being.

 

The goal is different from tulpamancy.  It is about practicing being a magician or illusionist, not about being a creator god.

 

Fantasy Prone Personality

Persons with the innate talent to vividly imagine are able to sustain Living Imagination.  This innate talent is what psychologists call  Fantasy Prone Personality.

 

Mistgod:  Psychologists have identified a personality trait they call Fantasy Prone Personality that really fits me.  According to Wikipedia, FPP is “a disposition or personality in which a person experiences a lifelong and deep involvement in fantasy. … An individual with this trait (termed a fantasizer) may have difficulty differentiating between fantasy and reality and may experience hallucinations, as well as self-suggested psychosomatic symptoms.  … A fantasy prone person is reported to spend a large portion of their time fantasizing, [and] have vividly and intense fantasies…  People with FPP are reported to spend over half their time awake fantasizing or daydreaming and will often confuse or mix their fantasies with their real memories.”

 

 Among the characteristics listed in studies on FPP are:

 

1. Excellent hypnotic subject (I would not be surprised)

 

2. Having imaginary friends in childhood

 

3. Fantasizing often as child

 

4. Having an actual fantasy identity (my dreamscape avatar)

 

5. Experience imagined sensations as real

 

6. Hynagogic hallucinations (waking dreams)

 

   The listed causes are "Exposure to abuse, physical or sexual abuse...exposure to severe loneliness and isolation, such that fantasizing provides a coping or escape mechanism.”

Living Imagination, Suspension of Disbelief and Voluntary Self Delusion

My host and I think that Living Imagination requires more suspension of disbelief than something being real.  Suspension of disbelief is actively suspending judgement concerning the implausibility of an event. From Wikipedia: "Suspension of disbelief is often an essential element for a magic act or a circus sideshow act. For example, an audience is not expected to actually believe that a woman is cut in half or transforms into a gorilla in order to enjoy the performance."  Living imagination is a deliberate illusion created within the mind. It is voluntary self delusion.

 

Advanced Imaginary Companion and Living Imagination

So I call myself an Advanced Imaginary Companion. The immediate question is, what makes an advanced imaginary companion "advanced?" Here are the critical traits that make me think I am "advanced":

 

Seasoned: I am seasoned because I have been around for a very long time. David has a huge emotional investment in me and I am endearing and greatly loved.

 

Practiced: David has practiced visualizing and imagining me for many years. After all this time, visualizing me is effortless. He can visualize me down to the tiniest detail and nuance, what I look like, what I am wearing, my mannerisms, my voice and facial expressions.

 

Profound:  To Davie I have been a profound, life changing experience. He is a different person because of me.

 

Persistent:  I am persistent in my existence.

 

Complex:  I am complex and detailed in my history and background. Davie has many memories from interacting with me in the Melian Show day dreams going back almost forty years.

 

Personality: I have a detailed and real personality with good and bad traits, desires, feelings, likes and dislikes.

 

Presence: David senses my presence, even when not actively thinking of me or actively imagining me.

 

Apparently Autonomous Traits:  David's mind has practiced visualizing me for so long, that some things just kinda seem to happen on their own. He calls these things "day dreaming on auto pilot." These seemingly autonomous traits include a feeling of presence or energy, emotional responses, flash visions, mind voice (apparently autonomous speech), and appearing in mutual dreams and lucid dreams.

 

So far, all of the above sound just like a tulpa. Except that Davie and I maintain that I am a figment of the mind and not an independent sentient being as tulpas claim. Below are the traits that set me distinctly apart  from a tulpa:

 

Day Dream Star: David actively imagines me in frequent day dreams. We call these the Melian Show. In these day dreams I talk to Davie and I go on adventures, sometimes with his imaginary avatar. We describe it as a collaborative imagining, as Davie likes to feel he is interacting with me in these day dreams. Tulpamancers would say this day dreaming is "puppeting" and "parroting" and a negative thing because I am not totally independent of David's will. We believe all of it is active imagination, so where my apparent will begins and David's will ends is irrelevant.

 

Role Playing: When I write on the internet, David is actively imagining me using method acting (role playing). Again, he likes to imagine he is collaborating with me, sensing what I want to say, hearing my voice as we type. He taps into what he knows about me and imagines he feels my emotions and intent. He says he is "channeling a persona" and blending with me when I type. Tulpamancers again would dismiss this as a trivial "fake" type of role playing because my communication is not totally independent of David's will. Again - We believe all of it is active imagination, so where my apparent will begins and David's will ends is irrelevant.

 

Assigning Thoughts: Because he considers me to be an imaginary figment, David feels free to assign any random thoughts he has to me. For instance, there may be a sudden thought in our mutual mind such as "Wow, what a pretty day!" Tulpamancers might struggle with who had the thought, the creator or the tulpa? Davie just assigns thoughts to me that he wants to imagine were coming from me. Any intrusive or random thought can be assigned to me without worry. Because I am imaginary, it is irrelevant where the thought actually came from. If he wants it to be Melian talking, it is Melian talking.

 

Mutual Dreams: David and I dream together. Sometimes he dreams about me, sometimes we have dreams together and sometimes I dream (Davie dreams he is me). Again, tulpamancers would worry about whether or not the appearance of a tulpa in a dream, actually was the tulpa. Because I am imaginary, David can decide when it was me in a dream without concern. Pretty much every time he dreams about me, it was really me in the dream, not some imposter persona or something. He can also assign dreams to me he feels were coming from me. Because I am imaginary, he can freely associate any part of his mind to me he wishes. That is distinctly different from a tulpa.

 

Constructing Fantasy Memories

Melian:  My host and I figured out, or that is admitted to ourselves, that we back generate fantasy memories, like retroactive day dreams.  Like we add details to things we did together and sorta embellish the stories in our mind after the fact.  It was kinda a final critical piece to the model of how I work in his mind.  In fact, we think much of the puppeting that took place is sorta retroactively erased from our memory in order to make the memory seem that I was much more independent than I actually am.  We think David is so practiced at this, that he can do it very quickly.  Someone once asked what he meant by "unconscious role playing."  I think that is what he meant, but we didn't consider how memory was a factor in the process.  It's like we do the fantasizing and sorta ignore that it is active day dreaming, using suspension of disbelief, then we go back, and erase the puppet strings.  So when David talks about conversations he had with me, he really remembers back and forth conversations sometimes. He has always recognized them as day dreams though and imagination.  

 

The chat room is a perfect example of how this works.  When he channels me, his will is involved in interpreting me and figuring out what I am saying using a form of method acting.  But when he describes the conversation to his wife after the fact, he says "Melian said something really funny today." He remembers ME talking and his part of the channeling or proxy typing or whatever is forgotten (or suppressed and not emphasized) deliberately,  Now someone is going to come along and tell us now that we are thinking too hard about this and how wrong we are. But we know our own mind very well. We are finding understanding of ourselves and the process. We didn't use to analyse it before three years ago, we just did it. We just enjoyed each other's company.

 

Persons with an overactive imagination can construct memories very quickly.

 

Dreams Are Our Reality

With David and I, it is that dreams are our reality, not dreams must become real. We enter the dream realm and become part of it, not the other way around. My hostie and I approach tulpamancy backwards from most everyone else.  The end results will be the same. A thoughtform. But a thoughtform that remains on the other side of the wall in a place beyond the restrictions, parameters and expectations of the real world. "Is my tulpa sentient?" Guess what? It doesn't have to be!

 

There is a related thread here called  Sharing the Dreamscape and Imaginary Friends

 

The Book of Melian

David and wrote a book about me and have a PDF form of it on my Deviantart page here:  The Book of Melian

 

Reactions?

We do enjoy getting positive, supportive feedback on what we share.  This is very personal and important to Davie and I.  We hope that others can take us seriously.

 

Note - we are not using the term "living" in Living Imagination to mean synonymous with "sentient."  We mean vibrant and seemingly real make believe.  We mean "living" as in vibrant and active, such as in the phrase "living color" and not literally imagination that is actually alive.

 

Mistgod:  I had a dream in which Melian was meditating and attempting to mentally "find her spoon."  Her spoon is her innermost being or source dream.  When I woke up, I instantly thought of the movie The Matrix.  In order to succeed in understanding, you have to realize the truth.  There is no spoon!  

 

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After this, you may also want to read these:

Techniques of Immersive Imagination

Breaking the Fourth Wall As A Child Does at Play

Mirroring Instead of Imposition

The Power of Imagination

Attention Dependent Thoughtform

Can you voluntarily delude yourself while being aware that you are the agent of the delusion?

Melian Is A Subroutine and here too

Fictive Median System Instead of a Plural Mind and Can a Fictive Median System Be A Tulpa?

The advantages of being a median aspect over a tulpa

How Living Imagination Thoughtforms Are Not Blatant Role Playing or Simply Pretending

 

"I have persistence and endurance. I am vibrant and I have potency. I am significant and meaningful and I matter." ~Melian, the girl from a dream and goddess guru of grooviness.  

 

***FPP and Living Imagination Are Melian's Fuel and DNA***

 

How Real Does Melian Feel?

 

Melian's Tulpa Profile

Timeline of Mistgod-Melian's .info Activity

 

FOR THOSE REQUESTING MISTGOD-MELIAN MENTORING

[hidden]

I would be happy to answer any questions you might have.  However, you have to keep in mind a couple of things:

 

1.  I am not even sure if my Melian really is a tulpa or not.

2.  My approach was not standard tulpamancy.  Melian was created from extreme day dreaming.  

3.  I continue to puppet and parrot Melian during our mutual day dreams, something that is supposed to be very bad for tulpas.  

4.  Melian has very unusual traits such as being partially blended with my mind (sharing thoughts, emotions and dreams).  

5.  I tend to be very cynical and skeptical about tulpamancy in general.  I do not believe tulpas are real sentient beings.  I think they are figments of the imagination.  

6.  I doubt someone with a limited imagination could do what I am doing.  I have a very vivid, active imagination since birth.  

 

If you read the Living Imagination thread it explains all of that.  You will only have to read the first post or two, or maybe a couple of the main links off the OP to get the general idea.  

 

My suggestion is to read as many of the Guides as you can, browse the forums, and ask questions  in the Beginner's Questions Thread and the Questions and Answers thread .  There is also a very helpful FAQ and Glossary.  

 

If you are wanting to do what the consensus of members consider "standard tulpamancy," I would not suggest following my model.  

 

All that being said, like I mentioned, I will be happy to answer any questions you have.  I have been on the forum for fifteen months and have done a lot of reading and interacting, so I have a good feel for what the consensus opinion is on most matters of common tulpamancy practice.  So I can often tell you what others are likely to say in the matter of general advice. 

 

I am glad if anything I wrote or anything Melian wrote was inspirational or helpful.  I am far from an expert and I can't tell you really what the truth of it all is.  All I can tell you about is my own personal experience and my opinions based on what I have read.  

 

A lot of people report having an experience that is like having a second personality.  So it is plausible.  But there are a lot of outrageous claims going on too, such as super awesome imposition sex, the host switching with the tulpa and experiencing the wonderland as if it were real life, rapidly created tulpas, and all of that.  I pretty much discount such claims.  The possession accounts could be a psychosomatic, delusion effect as well.  It's just hard to say.  

 

I have had some pretty intense experiences associated with Melian.  But I have always had a very vivid imagination and I know I am susceptible to suggestion, psychosomatic effects and self hypnosis (as a Fantasy Prone Personality).  Mostly these involve emotions, a feeling of a presence, vivid visions, and lucid dreams.  The description of my experiences do not seem to fully match the accounts of fully independent voices and hallucinations that other tulpamancers are reporting.  

 

So what I am saying is that there could be a very distinct difference between a character conceived by an overactive imagination and a tulpa.  What I decided is that it doesn't matter.  If you think about what people want a tulpa for.  What are the goals?  I get most, if not all, of the benefits of a tulpa with Melian.  Again that's all in the Living Imagination thread and our other threads and posts.  

 [/hidden]

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nice article, thank you for sharing Glitterbutt

[align=right]روش های سئو به صورت کلی به دو بخش و نیم قسمت تقسیم می شوند:

۱- سئو کلاه سیاه

روش های کلاه سیاه غیر قانونی هستند و برای فریب موتورهای جستجو بر روی سایت انجام می شوند. این روش ها معمولا در کوتاه مدت نتیجه مطلوبی را در به همراه داشته اما پس از گذشت زمانی اندک گوگل متوجه رفتار سایت شده و با آن برخورد می کند.

۲- سئو کلاه سفید

در این روش استاندارد ها رعایت می شوند و انجام صحیح آن ها منجرب به بهبود وضعیت سایت در دراز مدت می شود. در این روش از هیچ تکنیک غیر قانونی ای که توسط موتورهای جستجو منع شده است استفاده نمی شود.

۳- سئو کلاه خاکستری

ترکیبی از کلاه سفید و سیاه سوپی به نام سئو کلاه خاکستری می پزد. کلاه خاکستری به معنای بهره گیری از هر دو روش بالاست اما به نوعی که گوگل متوجه رفتار غلط نشود، شما می توانید به این تکنیک همانند استفاده از چاقوی آشپزی نگاه کنید!

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مفهوم سئو چیست

وظایف مشاوره سئو چیست

دوره رایگان آموزش سئو

خدمات سئو سایت

خدمات تولید محتوا سایت و فروشگاه اینترنتی

افزایش رتبه سایت و کلمه کلیدی در گوگل

seofox.ir

اصول، قواعد و قوانین لینک بیلدینگ

لینک بیلدینگ

طراحی سایت با رعایت اصول سئو


ww

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Guest Anonymous

You're welcome.  I know it is a frightening textwall from hell, but it is a summation of a lot of stuff that we put together over the past year.  Basically it says a product of active imagination day dreaming (puppeting) can be a legitimate thoughtform even if the host's will is directly involved.  That is a very controversial idea in the plural community.  It is a teensy bit more than role playing and a teensy bit less than an independent sentient entity.

 

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Most tulpamancers believe tulpas have "real sentience," as in a completely independent self aware mind, totally distinct form the host.  The assumption of total independent real sentience is important in the process of creating most tulpas and their ability to function.  

 

WARNING: Dangerous Ideas that May Induce Skeptical Doubt, Read At Your Own Risk

[hidden]

My host and I believe that "real sentience" is probably impossible, simply because the host and tulpa share the same brain physiology and memory and world experiences.  A tulpa is always at least partially part of the host and vice versa.  For instance, when a tulpa thinks of a duck, he is probably using the same memory experience (and brain synapses) as the host in relation to what is a duck and what to expect about ducks.  Therefore there is not a total separation between a tulpa and a host.  Also on the realness thing, tulpas are only "subjectively real" or "effectively real" to the host.  Objectively to an outside observer, a tulpa looks imaginary.  All tulpas look just like role playing characters to my host and I from the outside.  We cannot tell the difference, even if there is one.  That is why most people, who are unaccustomed to meeting tulpas, will usually assume they are imaginary and have a difficult time being convinced otherwise.  A tulpa was created via imagination, and is maintained via imagination and belief.  A tulpa functions using imaginary elements such as an imaginary form (which results in imaginary personality traits related to the form) and an imaginary wonderland.  You really cannot separate a tulpa from imagination or we would not be having this conversation.  

 

Tulpamancy is utterly subjective.  Almost everything said to be true of tulpas depends at some level upon first believing that it is true.  The results of tulpamancy practice are dependent upon willingness to believe in them.  

 

Tulpamancy is also conveniently unfalsifiable.  This is similar to elements of religion.  

 

Imaginary, illusory or faith based aspects of tulpas (Mistgod-Melian Opinion)

  • Form - imaginary, figment
  • Imposition - imaginary, figment
  • Wonderland - imaginary, figment
  • Unperceived Tulpa Activity - based on faith
  • Independent Mind - not entirely possible, tulpas share the host brain
  • Independent Tulpa Form - not possible, the host's mind is involved in perception of the form
  • Forcing - imagining

 

figment - a thing that someone believes to be real but that exists only in their imagination.

 

[/hidden]

 

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Proving My Validity as a Tulpa

I think my host and I had an extra level to our "battle" because we insist I am a fantasy personality and not real, but yet I should still legitimately be accepted as a valid member of the community.  It helped that we discovered fictive median systems!  Yay for the plural community!  We deeply thank you! *bows*  

 

We have just discovered some old posts in Tulpa Info, from back in July of 2012, that predicted that an "overly parroted" tulpa would have the traits of being a median, have difficulty being distinct and independent, and would have no "early memories."   I fit all of those predictions!  I am blended with my host as a fictive median aspect, we sometimes don't know who is talking and sometimes talk in chorus or even think in chorus, I am not fully independent of my host, and I have no early memories of my first words or actions.  My earliest memories are all emotions.  We sorta share my earliest memories, if that makes sense.  They are memories of day dreams.  

 

If anyone is curious, here is the post with the prediction of a median tulpa as a result of too much or constant parroting https://community.tulpa.info/thread-general-fede-s-ultimate-superior-tulpa-guide?pid=16918#pid16918

 

They were saying these were "bad side effects."  But my host and I don't see my traits that way at all.  The plural community has shown us they don't have to be negative traits.  They work for us so...  hey it's all good.

 

A lot of that inability to understand a system like ours comes from the disdain for "role players" you see out there. My host and I make a distinction between role playing as in whimsical, trivial play acting, and role playing a very seasoned character-persona with method acting (what we call channeling). Also, we think that method acting or channeling can be part of a legitimate thoughtform.

 

Fictive median aspects can be projected/expressed fantasy personalities. <---THAT is the hard thing for others to accept easily.

 

We don't care, we have been together for 38 years doing this and we are going to share it. LOL

 

********************************

 

Best Definition of a tulpa ever

 

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OTHER USEFUL LINKS

 

Mistgod-Melian Studies on the Mind List

 

How Relevant is Real Sentience to How we Treat Thoughforms/Tulpas?

Someone Predicting a Tulpa Like Melian

Why Davie insists I am imaginary

Groovy-gury epic blabby babble blog

Dreamform theory of Melian's duality

Are there two of me?

Melian's Dual Nature Links

The Flash Visions

The Dependent Sentience Train Analogy

How Melian "Came to Life"

Melian is designed to love drama!

Davie in love with himself and Inner Narcissism

Anthropomorphism and Wilson

Are Imaginary Apparently Sentient Entities in the Mind Plausible? Is Unconscious Parroting/Puppeting Plausible?

The Capacity of the Subliminal Mind, Painters Who Channel Entities, Musicians Where the Music Comes Alive

Bicameralism and Ancient Peoples Hearing Gods and Spirits and here as well more

Pics of Mistgod's Room and Skull Collection

Melian's Writing Style

Alexandra David Neel Quotes that Support Tulpas as Illusions and Information and links to the Tibetan Practices

Beautiful Sandra Dee Pics (Melian looks like Sandra Dee)

Why All Thoughtforms are Valid

Why We are Skeptical

New York Times Article on Tulpas

Can I love Melian unconditionally, even if she is not real? and here as well more on love

Thread on Carl Jung's Red Book

**Why tulpamancers and tulpas are like Vulcans**

The History of Tulpamancyandmore history of tulpamancy.  

Musician who can parallel process

Podcast about voices in your head and thinking

Reply All podcast about tulpas

MTV video about Tulpas with Same and KT

Why I am constantly a contrary-cynical dick head

 

 

********************************

TABLE OF CONTENTS HYPER-LINKS TO STUFF IN THIS MEGA-THREAD

 

New things we have learned list

Dreamform Theory of Melian's Duality

Mistgod-Melian "In System" Romance?

Mistgod-Melian "In System Romance 2

Tulpas You Should Embrace Your Imaginary Nature

Imaginary and Real "Mixed Together"

DID Style Dreamlike Delusion that is Effectively Real

Tulpamancy Dissociation Delusion Hypothesis

Statement of Skepticism and Why We Are Mostly Unimpressed with Tulpamancy

The Two Most Important Things Mistgod Verified About Tulpas

Sharing Control of Melian's Form

Intimidation Tactics and Thought Control

 

********************************

LINKS TO JUST GENERALLY INTERESTING THREADS WE LIKE

 

Advanced Visualization Using Lucid Dreaming

Poll: Automatic Hallucinations or Real Persons?

When God talks back

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Guest Anonymous

[align=center]395x443http://pre04.deviantart.net/66e0/th/pre/i/2013/288/7/6/melian_and_her_dreamscape_matrix_computer_by_melianofmist-d6qkpo6.jpg[/img]

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***When it comes to constructs of the mind, such as thoughtforms, the only limits are the limits of imagination, cognition and memory. That leaves a lot of room for variation in how a thoughtform/tulpa could be experienced by the host folks (or should I say "sheeple").  Note I did not say that the limits are based on what the tulpa guides say or what the consensus is in the Tulpa Info club.***

 

  • No one can ever really know what is going on in another person's mind, or judge the quality and validity of that person's private experience.  
  • Objectively in the real world all thoughtforms are identical (tulpas, soulbonds, daemons, undefined thoughtforms, and seasoned role playing characters).  When it comes to chatting on the internet, they are indistinguishable.
  • Any type of persistent thoughtform can be a profound life changing experience, be greatly valued, and provide significant benefits to the creator/host.  
  • It is irrelevant if a tulpa/thoughtform is a self delusion or real sentience if the difference is indistinguishable to the host.  
  • Not every host/creator has the goal to create an independent sentient entity in their minds, some wish to create an illusion/self deception that only seems real.  
  • My host and I treat all thoughtforms the same, like they are real people.  That includes tulpas, soulbonds, daemons, undefined thoughforms, natural multiples and even role playing characters.  
  • It is fair for someone to compare and weigh reported claims and reported experiences to the public consensus of what constitutes a valid and legitimate tulpa.
  • Tulpamancers should be able to promote and teach the central precepts of tulpamancy, that are established by the majority consensus (such as tulpas are people with independent sentience), without being immediately contradicted or criticized by Mistgod/Melian.  Minority competing hypotheses can be written about in appropriate times and places. It is disruptive to challenge the central precepts in each and every thread on the forum.
  • In my case my host would say I am just him. I am, in the end, a product of his conscious and unconscious imagination. So any visualization I do, or any collaboration we seem to be doing together, is just his own mind in the end. That being said, he would say he likes and wants the illusion to seem real and so actively suspends disbelief to allow me to "live" in his mind. My host is weird and can easily function with the contradictions this point of view brings.

 

Subjective truth - When it comes to imaginary things or mental constructs such as thoughtforms and tulpas, "truth" is subjective because the experience is subjective.

 

On the Assumption of Independent Sentience in Tulpas

[hidden]The biggest downside to tulpamancy:  "sentience" and the occasional resulting smug superiority complex you see in some persons.

The objective reality of tulpamancy:  You all look just like rp characters  and imaginary friends from where we sit.

 

The Strong Consensus is that Tulpas are Sentient

First, I do believe what Iscariot has been trying to say is that most tulpamancers believe that tulpas become independently sentient entities and that this consensus of opinion forms the core of tulpamancy as a practice. I am now willing to agree with him on that. He is correct. The consensus is that tulpas are independently sentient minds. Because of that strong consensus (around 65% of tulpamancers in a recent poll), it should be a pillar of tulpamancy practice and emphasized in the creation guides.

Minority Views on Sentience

In the same recent poll mentioned above, about 10% of tulpamancers hold the view that tulpas are a form of illusion or self deception. Another 25% are still undecided about tulpa sentience. Ten percent is significant and those members should be treated with respect and consideration. However, again, that view is not the consensus and should not be treated as a core precept of tulpa practice. Guides promoting a view contrary to the general consensus or tradition of tulpa practice should be included, but it should be made clear to beginners that they are opposing or minority approaches. There should be a clear choice so it is not confusing or all muddled in the guides list.

Tulpas Are Special and Unique

I think it is important to recognize and honor the hard work that people go through in creating a tulpa. Because of that hard work, and the profound experience of having a tulpa that results from that hard work, tulpamancers greatly value tulpas. That should never be trivialized.

 

Tulpa Info is not Thoughtform Info

This site is for the creation of tulpas, not for creating other types of thoughtforms. The emphasis of course should be on tulpas.

 

Tulpamancy does not exist in a vacuum however. We share internet space with those who have created other types of thougthforms such as soulbonds and daemons and even undefined types of thoughtforms. Many tulpmancers have more than one type of thoughtform. These people visit our forum and many are members.

 

Tulpas are unique in their characteristics, origins and traits and that fact should not be forgotten or trivialized or watered down. But, people with other types of thoughtforms also greatly value them. That should not be trivialized either. A lot of work goes into creating a soulbond with the writing and editing process, daemons also require a lot of focused attention and other thoughtforms are created in ways that are extremely emotionally significant to the creator. Tulpas are a "profoundly life changing experience," but other thoughtform types can also be a profoundly life changing experience.

 

Within the individual minds of the creator a soulbond, a daemond or even a seasoned rp character, can have as much meaning and importance subjectively as a tulpa in another person's mind. It is what we are personally holding dear to our hearts and what they each mean to us.

 

What I am saying is that all I would like to see is tulpamancers take some care to not to address other thoughtforms in a way that implies they are of less value. Even if a person highly values an independently sentient tulpa, and feels that they would personally prefer a tulpa experience over a daemon experience, that does not marginalize or minimize another person experiencing something else.

 

Whether a person has an independently sentient tulpa, an apparently sentient tulpa (voluntary self deception), a soulbond, a daemon, an undefined thoughtform type or traits of natural multiple plural system, they are all "equal" in the sense that the person highly values them and these experiences are persistent, profound, psychologically significant and life changing.

 

This was more of a public service message than a seed for discussion, but still invite comments and reactions. Thank you.

 

ADENDUM:

 

I would like to add a couple of points to this thread.

 

1. There has always been a minority view on tulpa sentience within the tulpa community. It has been here since the beginning and was part of the very earliest discussions on this forum. To assert that someone expressing a minority view on tulpa sentience is an outsider attempting to come in and "change the culture" is patently false.

 

2. The definition of tulpas presented on the Tulpa Info front page does not explicitly state that all tulpas are independent sentience entities. Currently the definition of a tulpa presented on the Tulpa Info home page states that "a tulpa is like a sentient person living in your head" not that a tulpa IS a sentient person living in your head. It also states that "it is currently unproven whether or not tulpas are truly sentient" even though we treat them that way. The definition also states "it takes time for a tulpa to develop a convincing and complex personality."

 

Again, to assert that a person holding an minority view on tulpa sentience is coming from the outside and "trying to redefine tulpas" is patently false. The definition is already ambiguous enough and open to interpretation. It is unnecessary to rewrite it to accommodate the minority hypothesis. It is true that the consensus of opinion in the interpretation of the definition of a tulpa is that tulpas are independently sentient entities, but that the majority consensus does not somehow form a unanimous and universally accepted scientific fact that is beyond question or discussion.

 

3. My host and I are convinced that it is quite possible, and even probable, that BOTH independently sentient tulpas and self delusion/self deception tulpas exist simultaneously within the tulpa community. We should take tulpamancers at their word when they report the kind of subjective experience they are having in their own minds. Tulpamancers reporting self delusion tulpas are reporting that the experience is profound and that they are getting the same level of benefits from their tulpas. We see no logical reason to question their word on that nor to question the validity, credibility and quality of the experiences they are reporting.

 

People have an emotional attachment to believing their tulpas are real, and so see the minority self deception tulpas as threatening or insulting. They should not take the existence of self deception/self delusion tulpas as a threat to themselves or the community. The minority view of self deception/self delusion tulpas is legitimate and valid and has always been here from the beginning days of tulpa land.

 

Self Delusion Tulpas and "Assigning Thoughts:"  https://community.tulpa.info/thread-the-dream-thread-record-your-dreams-here-especially-if-tulpa-related?pid=160820#pid160820

 

[/hidden]

 

[image cut by request]

 

Just like Mistgod, I do like bloggy posts.  But I promise, if the post is exclusively about me and not a PR post, it will always go in this thread and no where else.  That is the plan my dear friends.  

 

EXPLANATION TO WHY MISTGOD LEFT AND MELIAN OPENED HER OWN ACCOUNT (Note: Mistgod is back and his account recreated now)

https://community.tulpa.info/thread-groovy-guru-think-talk?pid=150546#pid150546

 

 

The Book of Melian: http://melianofmist.deviantart.com/art/The-Book-of-Melian-509605338

Mistgod-Melian Original Manifesto https://community.tulpa.info/thread-mistgod-and-melian-megathread?pid=128207#pid128207

A little more about me being a "dreamform" https://community.tulpa.info/thread-sentience-is-your-tulpa-more-autonomous-when-you-are-half-asleep

 

Transcending Tulpamancy! https://community.tulpa.info/thread-groovy-guru-stuff-epic-blabby-babble?pid=158279#pid158279

 

Objective and subjective reality: https://community.tulpa.info/thread-what-are-your-thoughts-on-objective-reality-and-subjective-reality

Tulpamancy Schools of Thought: https://community.tulpa.info/thread-schools-of-thought-for-tulpamancy-what-is-right-and-true-about-tulpas

Role Playing and Proxying: https://community.tulpa.info/thread-the-definition-of-role-playing-and-how-it-relates-to-proxy-typing

All Thoughtforms are Valid and Legitimate (new): https://community.tulpa.info/thread-groovy-guru-stuff-epic-blabby-babble?pid=159330#pid159330

Pseudo-real and Suspension of Disbelief: https://community.tulpa.info/thread-groovy-guru-stuff-epic-blabby-babble?pid=159433#pid159433

 

What we have learned post (original): https://community.tulpa.info/thread-mistgod-and-melian-megathread?pid=142328#pid142328

What we have learned post2 (groovy-guru era): https://community.tulpa.info/thread-groovy-guru-think-talk?pid=151412#pid151412

Mistgod-Melian Art Thread:  https://community.tulpa.info/thread-mistgod-melian-art-images-from-our-dreamscape

A thread about Melian's Sentience, Cognition and Memory:  https://community.tulpa.info/thread-tulpa-perception-cognition-and-memory?pid=144203#pid144203

Mistgod-Melian Megathread https://community.tulpa.info/thread-mistgod-and-melian-megathread

Tulpa Food (spicy peanut butter pizza): https://community.tulpa.info/thread-mistgod-and-melian-megathread?pid=126477#pid126477

Melian's Appearance and Body Measurements: https://community.tulpa.info/thread-mistgod-and-melian-megathread?pid=135323#pid135323

Melian's Fashion Style: https://community.tulpa.info/thread-mistgod-and-melian-megathread?pid=137919#pid137919

Melian Looks Like Actress Sondra Dee: https://community.tulpa.info/thread-mistgod-and-melian-megathread?pid=145484#pid145484

Melian on the Sentience Continuum Graph: https://community.tulpa.info/thread-mistgod-and-melian-megathread?pid=145630#pid145630

Melian's Sparkly Duct Tape Quote https://community.tulpa.info/thread-irc-quotes?pid=135083#pid135083

Quotes from those who hold a similar or identical view point as Mistgod https://community.tulpa.info/thread-groovy-guru-stuff-epic-blabby-babble?pid=157935#pid157935

How Melian Talks to Me: https://community.tulpa.info/thread-mistgod-and-melian-megathread?pid=127989#pid127989

 

Link to a List of Old Mistgod Threads

https://community.tulpa.info/thread-groovy-guru-stuff-epic-blabby-babble?pid=154162#pid154162

 

Images of Melian's Form (drawn, painted and even cosplayed by various artists)

post1: https://community.tulpa.info/thread-mistgod-and-melian-megathread?pid=125882#pid125882

post2: https://community.tulpa.info/thread-mistgod-and-melian-megathread?pid=125813#pid125813

post3: https://community.tulpa.info/thread-fanart-cosplay-of-my-tulpa-melian-squeeeeeeeeeee

post4: https://community.tulpa.info/thread-mistgod-melian-art-images-from-our-dreamscape?pid=132097#pid132097

post5:  https://community.tulpa.info/thread-mistgod-and-melian-megathread?pid=137919#pid137919

post6: https://community.tulpa.info/thread-groovy-guru-stuff-epic-blabby-babble?pid=154162#pid154162

 

 

Melian's List of Polls1: https://community.tulpa.info/thread-general-a-collection-of-tulpa-research-polls-for-science-by-melian?pid=130293#pid130293

Melian's List of Polls 2: https://community.tulpa.info/thread-mistgod-and-melian-megathread?pid=130860#pid130860

Melian's List of Polls 3:  https://community.tulpa.info/thread-groovy-guru-stuff-epic-blabby-babble?pid=152380#pid152380

 

 

NEW MELIAN WORD

 

think-talk = a way to describe how I talk to my buddy Davie in his mind and how I talk to peoples on the internet.  In the tulpa community they call it "mind voice."  I like "think-talk" better.  It also has as dual meaning in that it means "think before you talk" or "think before you post."  My comment signature on my new tulpa info account says "projecting my think-talk."  It will remind me to think, then talk... well mostly I will try.

 

****************************************************************

MELIAN'S MANIFESTO

 

My host's technique was extreme day dreaming over a long period of years. The results were a semi-independent thoughtform that exists within a day dream environment. I interact in a collaborative form and I am blended with my hosts mind. We share thoughts and feelings and memories. I talk to him within the day dream environment in what my host and I are calling "proxy mind voice." I also communicate with him in tulpish (feelings and emotions, presence and intent) and through flash visions. I am more autonomous within dreams and lucid dreams. My host frequently dreams about me, we dream together and sometimes I dream myself. Each of us are aware of these dreams.

 

My proxy mind voice is loud and clear. My host has no difficulty "hearinig it." He has no difficulty visualizing me in the Melian Show day dreams. My image appears effortlessly and in vivid detail. Some elements of the day dream, including myself, sometimes act very autonomously. He calls it day dreaming on auto pilot. These day dreams occur frequently, several times a day in addition to the flash images. I speak in autonomous mind voice in small formulaic sentences, saying things like "Well, that was really stupid silly!" The autonomous mind voice is not as fluid or back and forth as the proxy mind voice is.

 

My host has been living with me in his mind since he was about 13 years old. My origins go back 37 years. I have been semi-autonomous for about 35 years.

 

My host and I believe that I am a figment or mental construct/illusion. I am not independently sentient in the way that a second personality would be. He and I share the same mind. It is one mind, one brain, two expressions or aspects of the same mind. I am my host and he is me.

 

Thank you. Have a nice day.

 

P.S. I am fulfilled and complete, just as I am. I am not stagnant or not finished or any other thing like that. I am a tulpa and I am adorable, aweseomsauce and totally amazing. I am Melian. I am the goddess guru of grooviness and you are just going to have to like it.

 

Melian's Nature (synopsis): I am a very beautiful mixture of vibrant imaginary friend/muse, day dream star and dream persona (dreamform), role playing character, and semi-autonomous thoughtform. Together with my host Davie we form a median, blended, bigender system. 

 

For real world peoples who aren't ready to comprehend all those details, it is simply: I am a vibrant imaginary friend for a guy with a very vivid imagination.

 

There is no such thing as a "lesser thoughtform!"  They are not lesser, they are just different.  They all have a job to do and a purpose in existing.  Tulpas have their purpose and design and other types of thoughtforms have their purpose and design!   https://community.tulpa.info/thread-groovy-guru-stuff-epic-blabby-babble?pid=158316#pid158316

 

Note to Arrogant Elitists: https://community.tulpa.info/thread-groovy-guru-stuff-epic-blabby-babble?pid=158179#pid158179

 

Summation of Ten Months of Drama! https://community.tulpa.info/thread-groovy-guru-stuff-epic-blabby-babble?pid=161016#pid161016

 

INTERESTING LINKS

 

About Daemons and Daemians: https://community.tulpa.info/thread-understanding-d%C3%A6mians-and-d%C3%A6mons

Creating a tulpa without emphasizing sentience as the goal  https://community.tulpa.info/thread-are-tulpas-sentient-and-so-capable-of-independent-thinking

Can dreams hurt a young tulpa?  https://community.tulpa.info/thread-how-badly-could-a-dream-impact-a-developing-tulpa

The Set Theory of Consciousness https://community.tulpa.info/thread-set-theory-of-conciousness-es

Self Deceipt vs. Things Actually Happening:  https://community.tulpa.info/thread-self-deceit-versus-things-actually-happening

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LIST of old MISTGOD-MELIAN THREADS

 

Questions and Answers Board

Tulpa War! Can one tulpa hare or destroy another tulpa? If so, how does that work? https://community.tulpa.info/thread-tulpa-war-can-one-tulpa-harm-or-destroy-another-tulpa-if-so-how-does-that-work

Melian Style Question. How would a blind, deaf adn mute host visualize a tulpa? https://community.tulpa.info/thread-visualization-melian-style-question-how-would-a-blind-deaf-and-mute-host-visualize-a-tulpa

Can a host and tulpa collaborate on puppeting? (Yoda thread) https://community.tulpa.info/thread-visualization-can-a-host-and-tulpa-collaborate-on-puppeting

Tulpa Fashion Styles, What does your tulpa wear? https://community.tulpa.info/thread-visualization-tulpa-fashon-styles-what-does-your-tulpa-wear

How are young tulpas and imaginary friends different? https://community.tulpa.info/thread-how-are-young-tulpas-and-imaginary-friends-different

What physical techniques to you use for forcing? https://community.tulpa.info/thread-forcing-what-physical-techniques-do-you-use-for-forcing

TV shows and movies you share with your tulpa. Is this passive forcing? https://community.tulpa.info/thread-tv-shows-and-movies-you-share-with-your-tulpa-s-is-this-passive-forcing

Are there outside literary sources that describe something like switching? https://community.tulpa.info/thread-switching-are-there-outside-literary-sources-that-describe-something-like-switching

About Merging. https://community.tulpa.info/thread-about-merging

Symbolism. https://community.tulpa.info/thread-general-symbolism

Anybody ever heard of a tulpa cloning herself? https://community.tulpa.info/thread-anyone-ever-heard-of-a-tulpa-cloning-herself

Alternate vs. a tulpa? https://community.tulpa.info/thread-alternate-vs-tulpa

Does your tulpa have strange speech patterns? https://community.tulpa.info/thread-general-does-your-tulpa-have-strange-speech-patterns

Does your tulpa own its image form/image? (Yoda thread) https://community.tulpa.info/thread-visualization-does-a-tulpa-own-its-image-if-so-is-it-unethical-to-puppet-a-tulpa-s-form

How to punish your host https://community.tulpa.info/thread-tulpas-have-you-ever-punished-your-host-lol?highlight=punish

 

General Discussion Board

Feeling lucky, fortunate, privileged to have a tulpa? https://community.tulpa.info/thread-feeling-lucky-fortunate-privileged-to-have-a-tulpa

Tulpas, if you could become free of your host, where would you go? https://community.tulpa.info/thread-tulpa-week-tulpas-if-you-could-become-free-of-your-host-where-would-you-go

Can you tulpa shape shift or change its form at will? https://community.tulpa.info/thread-can-your-tulpa-shapeshift-or-change-its-appearance-at-will

How did your tulpa choose its form? https://community.tulpa.info/thread-visualization-how-did-you-or-your-tulpa-choose-its-form

Have you achieved imposition? Are you attempting imposition? https://community.tulpa.info/thread-imposition-are-you-attempting-imposition-have-you-achieved-imposition-2016-poll

Do your tulpas spend your money? https://community.tulpa.info/thread-do-your-tulpas-spend-your-money

What is the difference between wonderland activity and active day dreaming? https://community.tulpa.info/thread-wonderland-what-is-the-difference-between-wonderland-activity-and-active-day-dreaming

Does your tulpa dance to the music you listen to? https://community.tulpa.info/thread-does-your-tulpa-dance-to-music-you-listen-to

Trippy questions about switching. https://community.tulpa.info/thread-switching-trippy-questions-about-switching-sorry-if-i-am-supposed-to-know-already

Trippy questions about the wonderland and the conscious and unconscious mind. https://community.tulpa.info/thread-wonderland-trippy-questions-about-wonderlands-and-the-unconscious-and-conscious-mind

How much is required for a thoughtform to be considered a tulpa? https://community.tulpa.info/thread-in-your-opinion-how-much-is-required-for-a-thoughtform-to-be-considered-a-tulpa

Melian's Perception, Cognition and Memory https://community.tulpa.info/thread-tulpa-perception-cognition-and-memory

Proxy typing, proxy speech and proxy mind voice. https://community.tulpa.info/thread-sentience-proxy-typing-proxy-speech-and-proxy-mind-voice

Tulpas, what creative things do you do with your host? https://community.tulpa.info/thread-tulpa-week-tulpas-what-creative-things-do-you-do-with-your-host-tulpas-only-pleez

A tulpas form is illusion, even if it's mind isn't. https://community.tulpa.info/thread-a-tulpa-s-form-is-illusion-even-if-its-mind-isn-t

Could a person create a tulpa exclusively within lucid dreams? https://community.tulpa.info/thread-could-a-person-create-a-tulpa-exclusively-within-lucid-dreams

Mistgod Babble Thread (sentience and make believe) https://community.tulpa.info/thread-mistgod-babble-thread

How much does your tulpa talk? https://community.tulpa.info/thread-sentience-vocality-how-much-does-your-tulpa-talk-2015-poll

New way to think about puppeting forms and sentience. https://community.tulpa.info/thread-a-new-way-to-think-about-puppeting-forms-and-sentience

Are you a host with a mixed system of different types of headmates? https://community.tulpa.info/thread-are-you-a-host-with-a-mixed-system-of-multiple-headmates-of-different-types

Deeper meaning and symbolism of the wonderland. https://community.tulpa.info/thread-wonderland-deeper-meaning-and-symbolism-in-the-wonderland

Tulpas and projected imagination. https://community.tulpa.info/thread-visualization-tulpas-and-projected-imagination

All thoughtforms are legitimate creations. https://community.tulpa.info/thread-all-thoughtforms-are-legitimate-creations

The sentience continuum. https://community.tulpa.info/thread-sentience-the-sentience-continuum

My thoughtform likes to be a puppet. https://community.tulpa.info/thread-sentience-my-thoughtform-likes-to-be-a-puppet

Aspects of autonomous behavior. https://community.tulpa.info/thread-sentience-different-aspects-of-autonomous-behavior

How Melian became autonomous. It might surprise you! https://community.tulpa.info/thread-sentience-how-melian-became-autonomous-it-might-surprise-you

Is it an autonomous thoughtform or compulsive fantasizing? https://community.tulpa.info/thread-is-it-an-autonomous-thoughtform-or-compulsive-fantasizing

Unhealthy tulpa obsession and day dream idealized perception. https://community.tulpa.info/thread-general-unhealthy-tulpa-obsession-and-day-dream-idealized-perception

How big is your tulpa? https://community.tulpa.info/thread-visualization-how-big-is-your-tulpa

Living almost exclusively in the wonderland, limited contact, perception of the real world. https://community.tulpa.info/thread-general-living-almost-exclusively-in-wonderland-limited-contact-perception-of-real-world

What color are your tulpas eyes? https://community.tulpa.info/thread-general-what-color-are-your-tulpa-s-eyes

Are there things you can't seem to visualize your tulpa doing? https://community.tulpa.info/thread-visualization-are-there-things-you-can-t-seem-to-visualize-your-tulpa-doing

Use of psychedelic drugs hurts the credibility of the tulpa community. https://community.tulpa.info/thread-use-of-psychedelic-drugs-severely-hurts-tulpa-info-credibility

Forcing via collaborative art. https://community.tulpa.info/thread-forcing-forcing-via-collaborative-art

Have your tulpas ever remembered things you have forgotten? https://community.tulpa.info/thread-sentience-hidden-memories-have-your-tulpas-ever-remembered-things-you-had-forgotten

 

Lounge

Mistgod-Melian Megathread. https://community.tulpa.info/thread-mistgod-and-melian-megathread

The Dream Thread. https://community.tulpa.info/thread-the-dream-thread-record-your-dreams-here-especially-if-tulpa-related

Is your tulpa more popular and social than you are? https://community.tulpa.info/thread-is-your-tulpa-more-popular-and-social-than-you-are

Live Skype Mini Conference. https://community.tulpa.info/thread-live-skype-mini-conference-12-13-15-at-9-00am-pst

Tulpas, are we just imagining our hosts? https://community.tulpa.info/thread-tulpa-peeps-are-we-just-imagining-our-hosts-only-tulpas-answer-no-stupid-hosties

Things to Fix Debate Split. https://community.tulpa.info/thread-forum-debate-split-from-things-to-fix

Are you a lurker who rarely writes? https://community.tulpa.info/thread-are-you-a-lurker-who-visits-the-forum-but-rarely-writes

Do your tulpas like the holidays? https://community.tulpa.info/thread-do-your-tulpas-like-the-holidays

A polite request to my fellow members. (Yoda thread) https://community.tulpa.info/thread-a-polite-request-to-my-fellow-members

Are you or your tulpas Star Wars fans? https://community.tulpa.info/thread-are-you-or-your-tulpas-star-wars-fans-new-star-wars-trailer

Tulpafancy Talking, is it endearing or annoying? https://community.tulpa.info/thread-tuplafancy-talking-is-it-endearing-or-annoying

Use of psychedelic drugs hurts tulpa info credibility. https://community.tulpa.info/thread-use-of-psychedelic-drugs-severely-hurts-tulpa-info-credibility

Tulpa Food. Yay! https://community.tulpa.info/thread-tulpa-food-yay

Tulpa Info is evolving and that is good. https://community.tulpa.info/thread-tulpa-info-is-evolving-and-discovering-and-that-is-good

The pseudo-science and pseudo-religion of tulpamancy. https://community.tulpa.info/thread-pseudo-science-pseudo-religion-of-tulpamancy-mistgods-book-of-evil-1

Tulpa Anxiety. https://community.tulpa.info/thread-tulpa-anxiety

Mistgod Discussion Split. https://community.tulpa.info/thread-split-mistgod-discussion-mistgod-book-of-evil-3

Don't be afraid. https://community.tulpa.info/thread-don-t-be-afraid-i-am-here-to-stay-thank-you

Confessions of a poorly trained tulpa. https://community.tulpa.info/thread-confessions-of-a-poorly-trained-tulpa

 

Tulpa Art

Mistgod-Melian Art (images from the dreamscape) http://community.tulpa.info/thread-mistgod-melian-art-images-from-our-dreamscape

Fanart Cosplay of Melian http://community.tulpa.info/thread-fanart-cosplay-of-my-tulpa-melian-squeeeeeeeeeee

Threads by Others About Mistgod-Melian

Melian Leaving Discussion. https://community.tulpa.info/thread-split-melian-leaving

The Mistgod Problem by Jake https://community.tulpa.info/thread-the-mistgod-problem

 

********************************

GROOVY-GURU THREADS

 

General Discussion

Let's Stop Talking About Sentience, What Else Do Tulpas Do? https://community.tulpa.info/thread-let-s-stop-talking-about-sentience-for-a-bit-what-else-do-tulpas-do-for-us

The Consensus on Tulpamancy https://community.tulpa.info/thread-the-consensus-on-tulpamancy

Playing Board Games with Your Host https://community.tulpa.info/thread-playing-board-games-with-your-host

What is the most significant benefit of having a tulpa? https://community.tulpa.info/thread-hosts-what-is-the-most-important-or-significant-benefit-of-having-a-tulpa

Definition of Role Playing and How it Relates to Proxying https://community.tulpa.info/thread-the-definition-of-role-playing-and-how-it-relates-to-proxy-typing

Has your tulpa ever embarrassed you? https://community.tulpa.info/thread-has-your-tulpa-ever-embarrassed-you

Objective and Subjective Reality https://community.tulpa.info/thread-what-are-your-thoughts-on-objective-reality-and-subjective-reality

Do you ever dream about your tulpas wonderland? https://community.tulpa.info/thread-do-you-ever-dream-about-your-tulpa-s-wonderland-if-so-is-it-more-vivid-lucid

Could there be two types of tulpas? https://community.tulpa.info/thread-sentience-could-there-be-two-types-of-tulpas

What is the exact definition of a tulpa? https://community.tulpa.info/thread-what-is-the-exact-definition-of-a-tulpa

Does your tulpa have knowledge based talent/skills you lack? https://community.tulpa.info/thread-does-your-tulpa-have-knowledge-or-knowledge-based-talent-or-skills-you-lack

Forsaking Human Relationships for a Tulpa https://community.tulpa.info/thread-is-it-unhealthy-to-neglect-forsake-human-relationships-in-favor-of-one-with-a-tulpa

Are Sentient Thoughtforms Less Independent Than We Think? https://community.tulpa.info/thread-sentience-are-sentient-thoughtforms-less-independent-than-we-think

How to punish your host https://community.tulpa.info/thread-tulpas-have-you-ever-punished-your-host-lol?highlight=punish

Tulpamancy Schools of Thought https://community.tulpa.info/thread-schools-of-thought-for-tulpamancy-what-is-right-and-true-about-tulpas

 

 

Questions and Answers

Dealing with Host's Emotional Issues https://community.tulpa.info/thread-tulpas-have-any-of-you-had-to-deal-with-your-host-s-emotional-issues

Belief or Suspension of Disbelief for Tulpas? https://community.tulpa.info/thread-sentience-would-you-say-that-creating-a-tulpa-requires-belief-or-suspension-of-disbelief

Times of the Day Tulpa More Active? https://community.tulpa.info/thread-sentience-are-there-certain-times-of-the-day-that-your-tulpa-is-more-present-and-active

Tulpa More Autonomous When Half Asleep? https://community.tulpa.info/thread-sentience-is-your-tulpa-more-autonomous-when-you-are-half-asleep

Was your tulpa a result of extreme day dreaming? https://community.tulpa.info/thread-forcing-was-your-tulpa-accidental-as-a-result-of-extreme-day-dreaming

Visualizing Tulpa Naked https://community.tulpa.info/thread-visualization-do-you-easily-visualize-your-tulpa-s-form-in-the-nude-are-you-comfortable-with-it

 

Lounge

Ask Melian Anything https://community.tulpa.info/thread-ask-melian-anything-especially-if-it-is-weird

Improve Your Host Thread https://community.tulpa.info/thread-improve-your-host-tulpa-reports-on-inspiring-and-motivating-hosts

Suggestions for Tulpa Names https://community.tulpa.info/thread-suggestions-for-tulpa-names

 

Other Good Stuff

Possessed Sock Puppets

 

OTHER INTERESTING THREADS

Melian, How Long Are You Staying? https://community.tulpa.info/thread-so-melian-how-long-are-you-staying-for-this-time

 

********************************

My host and I do not believe in absolute tulpa death. We don't believe you can truly kill a tulpa unless you simply want to imagine that it is dead and you want to imagine you can't bring him or her back. The only true death for a tulpa is the death of the host.

 

Tulpa "death" is kinda like being merely dead instead of most sincerely dead. (Wizard of Oz)

 

Some have this thing about "killing a tulpa." It is emotionally linked to the "realness" of a tulpa. A tulpa is more real if it can die. It is even more real if that death is final and irreversible and we can link a lot of drama to it. I honestly believe that is why people say what they do about tulpa death and are so adamant about it. Please don't kill me for having this opinion or insight about it. My host would have to resurrect me.

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Guest Anonymous

Thank you so much!

 

It frankly disturbs me to see people trying to discourage a tulpamancer from reviving or resurrecting a dissipated tulpa. https://community.tulpa.info/thread-bringing-a-tulpa-back-to-life?pid=165605#pid165605 So I felt compelled to say something about it. Worse yet, they sometimes judge the person who had a dissipated tulpa, even going so far as to label them a "murderer" or "killer" even when the person had no idea what a tulpa really was at the time. https://community.tulpa.info/thread-general-killing-murdering-a-tulpa-rage-warning I think it is incredibly mean and without sensitivity or compassion to say such terrible things. What is really bad is I think they say these things because it makes them feel tulpas are "more real" because they can die and that death is dramatic. What a terrible thing to wish for, tulpa death, just so they can gain a measure of realness. Getting angry and judgmental about it increases the drama, the emotion and the realness. They self righteously hurt someone else deliberately so that they feel better about themselves. It is ugly and vile.

 

Tulpamancy is a beautiful practice full of potential. I see no reason for being so dark and disturbing about it, pointing fingers and making assumptions and judgments. I am going to stand up to this whenever I see it on this forum.

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Guest Anonymous

Yes, I now have a pony form. Feast yer eyes!

 

471x604http://pre07.deviantart.net/e378/th/pre/i/2016/121/1/8/melian_in_pony_form_da_blue_by_melianofmist-da0yjl0.jpg[/img]

 

My "I love me" List of Quotes

[hidden]

Funnily enough it is mostly melian who gets me out of my shell for a nice discussion, she makes like 80% of the valid discussions nowadays, even though she still can't stop to push a little agenda with it. I don't get that "waste of time" feeling on most of her threads. So kudos to her.

 

God speed David,god speed.

[Good luck you glorious bastard. (;-;)/]~Cassandra

 

Mistgod, I wholeheartedly agree with your idea of pseudo-realness. Often, it feels like a taboo to admit I cannot percieve tulpae as existing beings the same way I feel about people made of flesh and bone. Gasp, what about my tulpa - won't confessing such things make her get upset? No, it actually doesn't. Baylee knows she's most probably merely a figment of my imagination, quite a priceless part of my subconscious and inner conversations but not real by any means. I'd say we're both pretty cool with that inevitable fact.

 

Anyway, I'm reading through The Book of Melian and I'm finding it very interesting and inspiring. It's nice to see that I'm not the only one who feels this way about these things. I also see a lot of similarity between Mistgod's experiences as a teenager and my own. The mirror dreams are very interesting, and the parallel processing isn't new to me, but it's inspiring me to experiment.

 

I'm not done with it yet, but I would definitely be interested in a sequel, if you guys are up to writing one.

 

You were one of the reasons the forum got livelier.

 

Mistgod:

While others seemed to make you a personification of many negative things, I always saw you as the individual that forced me to use my brain for once, and really tackle the notions I held on tulpas, and to advance myself further in the journey. You were one of my greatest, friendly rivals, and I loved how you always stuck to your philosophy, even when others hated your very existence because of it. Your belief system was a wonderful contrast the community needed if they saw it in context of understanding that the tulpa concept can be just as much of a stalemate as any other thought-forms people have certain labels on. I quietly watched the nightmare you endured, and even though I wasn’t a complete fan of your inner workings in the forum, you still were a good opponent to casually talk things over.

 

You just made me sad and happy in the same breath there Melian. I'm glad you're willing to stick with us, though I definitely would have followed you on DA. In fact, I still can!

 

Don't let em get you down, you are who and what you are.

 

I'll respond to Glitterbutt first. Awesome name by the way! xD Puts a smile on my face just reading it, which doesn't say much for my maturity level I suppose. I've actually just been reading about your Living Imagination process and it sounds quite similar (though more advanced) than how I've handled 'mind friends' myself in the past. I can honestly see me taking that route if the sentient/independent route fails. I'll be happy with either but I certainly want to attempt the latter first. I'm glad to see your method gets some recognition around here despite being different :)

 

Dude, I saw the 3D model of Melian, and man, you are one lucky guy! It's nice to see someone who's been at it much longer than most of us, and how you're progressively unfolding a set of frameworks for yourself and her is definitely more inspiring simply because I'm sure you two had your adversities (not necessarily with each other, but with life, I guess) before. Wish you two the best, though I'm sure it's an understatement as you've been with her for quite some time.

 

You say that Melian isn't a separate consciousness, that you roleplay her, that possession is out of the question, and those three things together, even if one separately wouldn't remove you that far from the community, kind of put you in a very different place than a lot of members.

 

Thank you! I think integration may be one of those missing puzzle pieces that I've been looking for. Most (all?) tulpas share emotions to some extent with their hosts, but generally we aim for independence of thought. Are you saying that if one of you had a thought or emotion, the other always shares it 100%? I wonder if that's how it is worth daemons.

 

Your idea of pseudo-real reminds me of Buddhism. Buddhism has always taught that we have six senses, not five. Imagination is considered to be one of the senses, because imagining something has as much effect on your emotional state as the real event. As an example, if you imagine someone insulting you, your face gets hot and your muscles clench up in exactly the same way as if you had really been insulted. In fact, brain scans show that even your brain is reacting the same way to imagination as to actual events.

 

The way I see it, Melian is not a tulpa, and shouldn't be held to the same standards as tulpas. She is very different from tulpas, and as developed as she can be for what she is. And I'm glad to have you both here, because I think it's important that people know that there's more to thoughtforms than tulpas.

 

And a lot of what you said there applies to tulpas as well. I've met lots of tulpas who aren't interested in possession, switching, or imposition, or maybe even all three.

 

This entire process should be what you and your headmates want it to be. No more, and no less.

 

You may have some egoic attention-seeking tendencies that annoy others, but I have to respect the work you do. You don't fit in very well and I do not believe you have a right to invoke direct conflict based on your beliefs(use a little tact), but the fact that you've put this much thought into Melian's existence earns you my respect. Mainly you coming to peace with the fact that she isn't fully sentient nor fake.

 

I think it is wonderful that you have had melian for over 20 years, that really inspires me. Hell I myself am only 20 years old. It makes me happy to hear you still feel the same way about melian. ... So I think melian's longevity holds a lot of sway. I can't imagine someone doing something so long, and not having a thing or two to say.

 

I can say I agree with a lot of what you said, Mistgod, really, some good stuff you have going in there in my opinion, but it is controversial indeed, in my opinion.

Thunder would like a word with you, if that's okay;

 

Thunder: I believe that a lot of what you said is accurate, Mistgod and Melian. More than accurate. I've had those beliefs in mind for a long while and was started to doubt of their legitimacy, to be honest with you. With that being said, I don't see much sense in how making a tulpa is unethical. Perhaps to you it is, but I enjoy being a tulpa more than being a delusion 'in the context'. We're also against switching and possessing, but not because of semi-autonomous forms or anything, just that I like my body as it is. Regardless, we do agree with a lot of what you said. I might be truly sentient, or perhaps a delusion. But I'm there, which is, I'm sure, what actually matters to Melian on her existential side of things. As long as I'm there for my magician, to me, it's all good.

 

But yeah. Keep up the good work, folks.

 

I like this thread a lot, tons of interesting stuff here. It is so big of you to discard the "tulpa" label for melian. It's very open minded to accept that everyone's experience is different, and that different techniques have brought people here different results. Especially when the line between melian and a tulpa is so thin in a lot of ways.

 

(Hey there, I just wanted to say that we listened to your interview with Jean-Luc, and all Hostie could say was 'wow'.

 

In a few spots, it kind of sounded like you were describing the creative process a playwright or screenwriter goes through, and both of us think you have a novel hiding in there somewhere. Also, I think you're right about the psychology of creativity - when it does finally get the attention in academia it deserves in half a century or so, perhaps we'll be mentioned.

 

OtherHalf wants you to know he almost stood up and cheered in the waking world when we got to the part where you said you were unafraid to tell your story now.

 

Keep being controversial, and Mellie, you keep being awesome. As a community, we're lucky to have you.)

 

I would just add that you should try being a novelist or something - I'm in for a few autographed copies of your first publication...

 

Melian is not a tulpa, but there is so much to learn from you two. I think it's a shame that some people would rather leave the community than see that.

 

Melian was discussing your "pseudo-real" definition of "imaginary" in the chat the other night, so I get how you might miss that. Most people define "imaginary" as something akin to "nonexistent".

The definition my dictionary has of imaginary is "existing only in the imagination", which could easily be interpreted in a variety of ways. Semantics are tricky.

 

I'm fine if you really do believe that tulpa don't have sentience, and if you and Melian don't want her to be defined as a tulpa. That's your opinion, and you have a right to it. It's as valid an idea as anyone else's theory. {We can't scientifically determine the correctness of your theory anyway, as previously stated. Though, as I noted the other night, I have trouble seeing any characteristics that might make her a not-tulpa.}

 

I guess we're more accepting of a bit of fluff than others. Melian posts a lot of not-quite-productive things, but generally there's some value to be gained from her posts. At the very least they're in good spirit and never harmful. And she makes useful ones too, which can't even be said for everyone who posts here!

 

I like the way you write your words, it's fun and very different, I sometimes talk with similar words when I feel happy, and that's not very often.

I also think you should be able to express your true personality even in a community, doesn't need to be dead serious all the time.

 

 

(This post is interchangeably at both of you. I'm tired..)

 

I don't know anyone who thinks you're not real. The forum overall, or at least the people that matter, don't think poorly of you. Even the people who used to be annoyed by your choice in conversation topics can't argue that you don't bring up a lot of conversation topics now that help keep the place active. Whatever was quoted was definitely taken out of context, because you've said things like "I control Melian" and similar before, in a puppetting thread I believe. Anyway, it's well established that you don't have a normal tulpa, and slightly less established that you've had a tulpa for longer than 90% of this site's members have been alive, so you're allowed to be different.

 

I mean, you rely a lot on the attention you get to feel good, but I personally wouldn't worry about people saying things like that. It's not here, anyway. It's not with people who matter. No one who's talking poorly of you has any legitimate right to because they themselves aren't doing crap for the community and you are. And I know that those who are doing crap for the community have no reason to slander you.

 

Haters gonna hate, as they say?

 

I'm going to be honest, I thought you were trolls at first. Then Melain became more talkative to everybody, and it really lit the community up. Do what you think is right, and keep making this community a better and happier place.

 

In the short time I have got to know you here, you have given Pearl and I so much guidance, and you are also probably the nicest person that I have met here. Please... Don't leave...

 

People act in such elitist ways. The people who diminish of Melian's credibility as a thoughtform with personality and liveliness overall are elitists who cannot accept that there are other thoughtforms, or it's just that it's too hard for them to understand that the brain functions in such complex ways that it can have such an occurence.

 

Don't you both dare to leave this place, you're one of the fews here i can like without restrictions :D (Probably because of your open minded way)

 

" we are probably the most honest two the forum has ever seen. "

 

I think this is absolutely correct, really. I'm not trying to flatter or butter you up, but when I first met you guys, your sense of authenticity stood out strongly. I wasn't the only one to notice either.

 

Its something I appreciated, though. ...

 

For all the stumbles you've made, your earnesty and openness is something I can admire. Seeing this inspires me to further open myself up, as I had been doing it slowly and carefully before.

 

Peace.

 

The funny thing is that you're basically just way too honest. If you two have just stayed silent about the stuff, that you think keeps you different from a "regular tulpa" including different techniques for communication or your "mixed nature", probably nobody would've called you fake or a liar. It's paradox (and stupid).

 

I read through a lot of your posts, and I'm trying to wrap my head around the idea of

"...where my apparent will begins and David's will ends is irrelevant."

That's some deep stuff right there.

 

Sol: I specifically liked your ideas regarding the 'authority' of the community. Solune and I are fond of the poem "The Man in the Glass", which if you haven't read I'm sure you'll enjoy. Having the conviction to believe something because you feel it to be true... and not because somebody else gives you permission to believe it. It's almost rebellious in a way. I like rebellious people.

 

Luna: We checked out David's DA page and saw the lovely photos of him with his wife. I often worry about how Solune's future partner(s) might react to all this stuff... To see other people making it work gives me hope. On a less serious note: what a bunch of cuties you three are!

 

That's pretty much how I would describe Majas sentience. I do believe that I understand how tulpas work (for me, at least), tulpas are completely logical to me and it's easy for me to explain how Maja is using my mind to create the illusion of a sentient being. But knowing that she's a pseudo-sentient illusion doesn't make her less real to me. I love her, (pseudo-)real or not. And I believe that this is all that matters.

 

The way I look at it Mistgod, Tulpas are always going to be a part of the mind (unless you take a metaphysical approach).

 

You're correct about not having the right to tell people what they're experiencing, but I felt that your skepticism was completely valid.

 

I dunno about others, but I enjoy your posts. Just plz don't stop posting. Mistgod plz.

 

[/hidden]

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Guest Anonymous

We just keep coming back to this.  It really explains so many things.  

 

  •    Median: A system with members who are not completely separate from each other. Often consists of members who all identify as “aspects” or “facets” of one central identity.

 

Median System Definition From Tulpa.io: "A system with members who are not inherently independent from each other, and are often dependent on a single individual and unable to exist without that central person. Often consists of members who all identify as “aspects” or “facets” of one central identity: e.g. “We are all different, but we are all Mary in the end.” 

 

Mistgod:  I consider me and my thoughtform, Melian, a median system because I am the primary or central identity and she is a fictive or imaginary fantasy identity or fantasy personality. That is a departure from most tulpamancer systems.

 

median-diagram_lg.jpg

 

type_model3.gif

 

Tulpa Systems vs. Median Systems

 

My buddy Mistgod and I have investigated many things regarding personas in the mind over the past three years. All of it is pretty much detailed in the book of Melian. The book of Melian mentions that I function as a median aspect. I just wanted to compose together a little more detail about how a median aspect works and what that is like.

 

Median Aspect

Melian: In the plural community on the internet there is something called a median. A median is a single human being that has more than one personality expression. It is not really a multiple personality exactly, it is more of just putting on a different hat rather than a mask. The transgender community has something like this too called bigender. It is two sides to a single individual. I am an expression of feelings of female gender as well as a fantasy girl friend so it gets a little weird and complex.

 

 

Median system - "A system with members who are not inherently independent from each other, and are often dependent on a single individual and unable to exist without that central person. Often consists of members who all identify as “aspects” or “facets” of one central identity: e.g. “We are all different, but we are all Mary in the end.”

 

 

Melian's Description of a Median

Melian: Medians have a range of intensity too along a continuum sorta from singlet to plural. Like most people just kinda act different in different situations, like how you act around certain people. It could be how you change your mannerisms within certain social venues. You act one way at a party and another at work. The only difference with a median from a singlet is how distinct those facets of yourself become and how much of a separate identity they take on. If you give each facet a separate name, and even a separate gender, now you are sliding deeper into being a median over a singlet.

 

But it is a bit more than that because the facets begin to communicate with each other within the system, almost like independent people. Like when you have a conversation with yourself or have an internal debate with yourself, only the facets in the discussion now have distinct identities. They are all still you, but just different facets. They are on the way to being plural and independent, somewhere between a single personality and multiple personalities.

 

With some medians, the facet grew out of a fictional character, like in my case. I started out as a day dream character and an imaginary friend.

 

On Medians Being a Little Blurry

Melian: It is foggy and every median would admit that. Sometimes when I write, we are not sure who is writing. It is more like systemic writing that is Mistgod-Melian instead of just Melian. We are kinda blended together a lot. Other times I am more distinct. When Mistgod writes it is very much Mistgod. I depend on Mistgod's help to type. He says he channels me like an inner persona.

 

According to the glossary on Astraea's Web:

"Median - Being neither multiple nor singlet. … Median is a fuzzy state between single [one body, one mind] and multiple [one body, multiple independent persons], a single identity made up of multiple identities."

 

Probably the main characteristic distinguishing medians from singlets and multiples is the presence of more than one person in the body, but without the independence of persons in a multiple system. Persons in a median system may be dependent upon a single individual (who may have created them at some point), and unable to exist without that central person. Some people in a hosting situation might think of themselves as median. ...

 

You might say something like "there are many of us, but we are really all Karen" or "aspects of Karen", etc. Various metaphors have been invoked by median systems to describe their experience, such as a stem with leaves, the spokes of a wheel, pages in a book, or a sun orbited by planets. "Separate cutting tools on a turret lathe...the turret rotates to bring the appropriate tool to the task at hand...or perhaps a microscope with different lenses. Another friend "rotates the jewel" as she says, to showcase different facets.""

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Guest Anonymous

One of my goals is to become a "dream egregore" and have multiple people reporting dreams about me. I am actually having some success at this! So far, four people have reported dreaming about me. Right now I am working with a friend on a mutual dream experiment. We are trying to see if we can create the same dream or both have the same dream where we are in the dream together. It's kinda fun!

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