Guest Anonymous

Perceiving a tulpa's form (How can the form be independent?)

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Who's mental muscle is out of practice though? The host's, the tulpa's or both? That takes me right back to the OP.

 

The brain's, sheesh. You are not your brain. I am not my brain. Lumi isn't our brain. Melian is not half of your brain, I'm not half of mine, nobody is their brain. The brain houses the memories, experiences and thought patterns that make up your identity, and that is you. Don't confuse "you" physically with "you" mentally. Yes, "David" is the name given to your physical body. And naturally you take that to also be the name of your mental identity. But the totality of your body and your in-mind identity and thoughts are not the same thing. When tulpas become involved, suddenly that differentiation becomes very important. Even if a lot of people will never get it.

 

We've honestly been back and forth on actually referring to our host as Lumi. Most of us use his actual name, but Lucilyn more often than not has been calling him Lumi as that's not only how we ourselves refer to him here, but how most of his online friends refer to him too. But it's just another label for an identity. Our body is officially (legally) "our host's" full name. But our host takes that name for himself, having used it his whole life. He's also comfortable with 'Luminesce'. We use our single names, but we're also comfortable with the body's real name in real life (Lucilyn's almost written her name once or twice, but otherwise we've been pretty good about it). Really, as inhabitants of the body, we have as much claim to the body's name as our host, right? Maybe not, since he's the one who has defined that name's identity to the world all our life.

 

Either way there's an important differentiation to make here. It's good to hear you mention parallels to psychology, because that'll help you understand I think. Since starting college we've found a lot of our beliefs others might find strange are actually well supported by the sciences. With logic as one of our primary values, this has been very reassuring. Similar feeling to finding this forum and having our pre-tulpa experiences line up with others', except science has a little more credibility.


Hi, I'm Tewi, one of Luminesce's tulpas. I often switch to take care of things for the others.

All I want is a simple, peaceful life. With my family.

Our Ask thread: https://community.tulpa.info/thread-ask-lumi-s-tulpas

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Guest Anonymous

If I decide that the body is not mine but ours I can't imagine what Melian is going to do with that idea and it is a little frightening. LOL

 

I have seen a few others say that sentience can be regarded the same way as the body. Like there is a universal sentience and then facets of that same sentient mind, which I find more appealing and accurate sounding that two distinct minds. I think it is closer to the sentient mind being the brain itself, which is what I believe.

 

Also, I liked that idea of different perspectives. Empathy allows us to imagine what others are experiencing. It is imagining what a person is experiencing from another perspective that is not your own. I do it all the time with Mel, like with the flowers she got the other day. It's how she "comes to life."

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If a host and the tulpa are fully independent of one another, how does the host perceive the tulpas form? How does the host perceive the tulpa moving and using it's form? There must be some mutual imagining/hallucinating going on or the host would never be able to perceive what the tulpa does with his or her form within the mind space or during imposition.

 

Not too sure about that, though I fear I have no explanation other than personal experience, which I know "doesn't count". :)

 

Sometimes, Midori or someone else will just come in to my perception with little warning. I'll get a sense of their form and presence being there, bit I didn't directly call them forth. There are times where I had her in mind in someway before she came up, but there were also times when she came out nowhere, and was just there. I can't answer why that is at the moment, it just happens.

 

This ability does fade if I spend long enough away from things inside, but even then, I don't consciously and intentionally move my girls around to a large degree.


Sock Cottonwell's

Sketchbook, Journal, and Ask thread.

Peace

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Guest Anonymous

You guys are missing what I am saying. Once the tulpa "spontaneously appears" you have to perceive the tulpa's form. How is it that you are doing that? If the tulpa's form is totally independent from your mind, how is it that you perceive the tulpa appearing in the first place?

 

Others were grasping at extended cognition, but that is involving the physical senses and real objects in the room. I am talking about sensing your tulpas imaginary form.

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The more I read peoples' responses to topics like this, the more I think about the suggestion that Jamie is something other than a tulpa. Looking at Jamie's form, watching him move - this is no different for me than looking at a random person in front of me in real life. I cannot anticipate or make up in advance every little movement that they'll do, how their clothes and hair move with their motions, how they move their hands when they talk, etc, etc. Everything they're doing is just unfolding in front of me, and I'm watching it, and I have no part in it. It's their movements. It's them. The same goes for Jamie.

 

When I brought this topic up to him and he had a look at the initial posting which mentioned the tulpa's role in imagining/perceiving, he laughed and said "I'm not imagining anything, or perceiving anything or whatever, like do you PERCEIVE yourself walking down the road? No, you just fucking walk."


Unfathomable. You know, without fathom.

[align=center]I'mma build you from the ground

Til you're higher then the clouds

I can see it in your soul

If you only knew your worth

The kinda love that you deserve

Every piece of you makes me whole[/align]

 

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Guest Anonymous

What you just described is how most advanced imposed tulpas would act. How is it that you are perceiving Jamie? Everyone is missing my point totally. If Jamie's form is totally independent of your mind, your will, how is it that you are perceiving him? Are you suggesting he is a metaphysical spirit and you are perceiving him in some metaphysical way?

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You guys are missing what I am saying. Once the tulpa "spontaneously appears" you have to perceive the tulpa's form. How is it that you are doing that? If the tulpa's form is totally independent from your mind, how is it that you perceive the tulpa appearing in the first place?

 

Others were grasping at extended cognition, but that is involving the physical senses and real objects in the room. I am talking about sensing your tulpas imaginary form.

 

I know. It just happens. When she just spontaneously appears and imposes herself, it's just that, imposing herself. She's doing it without my say or wish, because autonomy.

 

Can Melian send you an image out of the blue without your say? If she can do that, why is it any more a stretch for her to show you her form?


Sock Cottonwell's

Sketchbook, Journal, and Ask thread.

Peace

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What you just described is how most advanced imposed tulpas would act. How is it that you are perceiving Jamie?... Are you suggesting he is a metaphysical spirit and you are perceiving him in some metaphysical way?

 

I think there's a LOT of middle ground between these two things.


We're all gonna make it brah.

 

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Guest Anonymous

@Sock

 

You are still missing the point. I am not talking about autonomy. I am talking about perceiving a tulpa's form in your mind. Melian does spontaneously appear, and I do perceive her in sudden flash images. But I recognize that Melian is produced by my conscious and unconscious imagination. Some part of my imagination is involved in her appearances. I am just wondering about those who claim that their tulpas are totally independent of the host's will and imagination. How are they perceiving their tulpas? Is it some form of projected telepathy coming from the tulpa and the host is absolutely passive in the exchange? Or is it like my Melian, where we believe we are collaborating on imagining the image together (puppeting it together). How are you perceiving the appearance and movement and actions of the tulpa?


Sock technically this would also apply to anything the tulpa does.


 

I think there's a LOT of middle ground between these two things.

 

Maybe. That would explain a lot of things. If it is some form of metaphysical communication.

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I know. It just happens. She's doing it without my say or wish, because autonomy.

 

For some reason that reminds me of a meme - It's autonomy. I ain't gotta explain shit.

 

And yet, in looking that up I find..

https://koolrpix.files.wordpress.com/2013/04/picard_final2.png?w=623&h=468

 

This is fairly fitting. And I could try and answer what Mistgod is asking, but I'm a little tired of explaining different aspects of the same thing over and over. Using the information we've given about how we think tulpas work over the last few days.. how the mind uses the conglomerate of information that becomes an identity to act as another person - it does the same thing for visualizing, speaking, everything. That's how a tulpa exists, the mind automatically uses the mass of information that defines your tulpa to determine how it acts, speaks, thinks, and so on. When you try and think of what your tulpa would be doing or saying, it determines what they would be doing or saying, and does it. That is literally a tulpa.

 

Yet every time I do that Mistgod thinks "Aha! Tulpas are only a facet of their hosts!" And I am tired again. "You" are no more than a tulpa, a mass of information on who "you" are stored in your mind, which it uses to determine how you act, speak, think, and so on. But this appears to be an endless cycle. It is apparently incomprehensible.


Hi, I'm Tewi, one of Luminesce's tulpas. I often switch to take care of things for the others.

All I want is a simple, peaceful life. With my family.

Our Ask thread: https://community.tulpa.info/thread-ask-lumi-s-tulpas

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