Guest Anonymous

Is there any point in trying to share a tulpa experience with other people?

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@FallFamily,

 

Thank you so much for you kindness and consideration. I am shocked that anyone would even trouble themselves with me anymore. I am always whining or bitching. It does help knowing I am not the only one with these kinds of frustrations and I have to think about that more and be aware of it.

 

[Tri] You are welcome. It isn't much trouble. And we try to look out for the MDD crowd, like yourselves, since we know something about it since that is how Hail made us. Some very different experiences to other plurals, yet others very similar. And besides, we care about you two.


Tri = {V, O, G}, Ice and Frostbite and Breach (all formerly Hail), and others

System Name: Fall Family

Former Username: hail_fall

Contributor and administrator on a supplementary tulpamancy resource and associated forum, Tulpa.io and Tulpa.io/discuss/.

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You're not alone. We share many of the same frustrations that you do. It's nearly impossible to convey feelings to someone else through words unless you're very poetic, and even then, they need to have experienced something similar to fully understand. Even my best friend who knows Hex personally from when she's switched in, doesn't know how I interact with and experience her. There's no way to put him in my shoes and let him see what I see, and it's maddening.

 

I have learned to recognize that I create an invisible "someone" or group of someones who have disgust or disdain and contempt for me in my mind. Then I tend to paint the entire forum in the same false light based on that imagined someone. Melian is strongly influenced by my thoughts and feelings and mirrors them or dittos them. Sometimes she can momentarily rise above it and see things more clearly than I can.

 

So much this. I think for me a lot of it stems from the stigma against people having pony tups. I know this is more of a 4chan thing, but I can't help but wonder if people are being forcibly more accepting here because it's NOT /trash/, and I end up judging the whole forum. Her being a pony...moth, it affects her too. She ends up feeling discriminated against and feels the need to lash out at times, and knowing she can't, will sit and simmer on it, and we kind of feed off each other's negativity until we're both ready to empty clips. That's why we haven't been around, at some point we said fuck it and went about our own business to avoid pointless stress. Naturally she was the one to suggest it. But like you two, I can't help but check on the forums once in awhile, for whatever reason.


It's best to just call me Beany.

Tupper: Hexferry / d.o.b.: 11/04/2015

Hex will speak in italics, if she decides to.

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Guest Anonymous

@FallFamily,

 

Aww thank so much! That makes me really happy that you say that! Both Mistgod and I have wanted to make this summer a time to change things around with yet another restart. We have 48 days left of summer until he goes back to work at the office. We are going to make a super duper double effort with each other to change what we write about on this forum and just be more positive! We have some other goals too, like cutting down on diet soda and losing weight.

 

Uhh part of that was only doing an hour and a half to two hours a day on the internet. So far we kinda failed at that. But we will start again tomorrow. It can be done and we will make it. It's only when you quite trying that things stop getting better. We will really work on eliminating that "invisible make believe hater" and the paranoia we have been feeling since day one back in April of 2015. So many people say they care and it just seems we are imagining bad things and making any negative things a lot bigger than they really are. This can be so much funner and more rewarding!


You're not alone. We share many of the same frustrations that you do. It's nearly impossible to convey feelings to someone else through words unless you're very poetic, and even then, they need to have experienced something similar to fully understand. Even my best friend who knows Hex personally from when she's switched in, doesn't know how I interact with and experience her. There's no way to put him in my shoes and let him see what I see, and it's maddening.

 

If we could only hook our brains together with a brain connector thingy. Then we could all get together in one universal wonderland and have like this huge party! We could all feel each others expressions and feelings. That would be fun. OH and a little dangerous maybe kinda.

 

So much this. I think for me a lot of it stems from the stigma against people having pony tups. I know this is more of a 4chan thing, but I can't help but wonder if people are being forcibly more accepting here because it's NOT /trash/, and I end up judging the whole forum. Her being a pony...moth, it affects her too. She ends up feeling discriminated against and feels the need to lash out at times, and knowing she can't, will sit and simmer on it, and we kind of feed off each other's negativity until we're both ready to empty clips. That's why we haven't been around, at some point we said fuck it and went about our own business to avoid pointless stress. Naturally she was the one to suggest it. But like you two, I can't help but check on the forums once in awhile, for whatever reason.

 

I never quite understood the thing against pony tulpas. I created a pony form specifically in support of my pony friends. Then I boldly put it online and dared peoples to say something about it! LOL I love all the pony tulpas!

 

FEAST YER EYES!

 

236x302http://pre07.deviantart.net/e378/th/pre/i/2016/121/1/8/melian_in_pony_form_da_blue_by_melianofmist-da0yjl0.jpg[/img]

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That's super cute. I love it!

 

This is why you're my favorite tulpa, Melian. If I had thumbs I'd put one up for you.


It's best to just call me Beany.

Tupper: Hexferry / d.o.b.: 11/04/2015

Hex will speak in italics, if she decides to.

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I always think a book about Mistgod instead of a book about Melian would be boring.

 

It's not exactly a book about Mistgod. Look at Don Quixote, for example. Don Quixote is clearly a book about Don Quixote, but it doesn't work if the book is just like "There was some crazy guy named Don Quixote who thought he should tilt with windmills because in his mind they were giants." The book works because we see Don Quixote through the eyes of Sancho Panza. We experience Sancho Panza's emotions about Don Quixote. We can't relate to Don Quixote, because he's such an outlandish character, but we can relate to Sancho Panza, and we get to experience Don Quixote through him.

 

Or Harvey is another good example. Harvey himself is so incredible, the story can't be through his eyes. Even Elwood is too incredible, so we really see the story through the ordinary people Elwood cones in contact with.

 

What I'm saying is that your reader can't be Melian -- and if they could be Melian, they wouldn't need to read the book. The reader *can* be Mistgod. Mistgod is ordinary. Mistgod is relatable. Mistgod is the perfect audience surrogate. And if you want to show us how incredible Melian is, you need to show us through Mistgod.

 

Does that make sense?


"Some things have to be believed to be seen." - Ralph Hodgson

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In other words "Just chill out Mistgod? Don't force things, relax, and things will work themselves out?" Yeah, you are probably right on that.

 

Grandma's smack in the head would be effective too I bet. I will just have to imagine that for myself since she is no longer with us to deliver it in person.

 

Well, if you want to put it that way, then yeah, basically. But I just want to emphasize that we all fall victim in this frustration of not being able to have our experiences understood completely to where the person can literally step into our experiences, and see why we do the things we do. Like the beetle in the box, e.g. our qualia, we can’t really step out of our qualia, and access someone’s own qualia, nor can we still retain our qualia while accessing another as there has yet to be any anecdotes, or empirical verification on this.

 

And even if this were probable, that private inner experiences can be made public with others—even if that person can share your pain, angst, happiness, sorrow, and how you perceive things, all it really does is just that person giving you a pat on the back on “Good job, I guess you were legit in this after all, and weren’t smoking shrooms, or something.” They will have to take ownership over what to do with treating a tulpa as sentient. Sure, maybe by accessing one’s inner, private experience, they could apply certain contexts and see why they make sense, and know how things react appropriately for that given person, but it still amounts to a pat on the back, and a sense of assurance that one isn’t doing it in vain, and is getting a feedback loop from others that can be understood.

 

If you try to cling onto getting feedback for this yearning to have others share this tulpa experience, whatever that entails, and know that we can’t know another’s beetle in the box, then yeah, you will become melancholic, you will be frustrated, and that frustration will bleed onto others. But, this isn’t about telling you to take a chill pill, because you can still retain your passion, but instead of you clinging onto social acceptance and acknowledgment, try doing it for both you, and Melian’s sake.

 

Self-progression doesn’t have to be hinged upon the reactivity of others, and their approval over you. Yes, this still matters to some extent, but it shouldn’t be the end-all be-all as by doing so, you are setting yourself up for a dead-end unless somehow, we can truly know what kind of beetle is in a person’s box, if there’s any. You can still get that approval from others, but you must know that they have to use inferences to try and come to an understanding. Even if they can be detailed, poetic, or colorful with their wording, it cannot suddenly bridge certainty over knowing who has a certain type of beetle, or if they even have their own beetle in the box.

 

 

For those that don’t know what I mean by beetle in the box, replace “beetle” with “qualia.” And if you don’t know what “qualia” is, it’s basically chalked up as inner experiences, and the –ness of something a person experiences (e.g. the redness of something, or the tulpa-eyness of something)

 

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Guest Anonymous

What I'm saying is that your reader can't be Melian -- and if they could be Melian, they wouldn't need to read the book. The reader *can* be Mistgod. Mistgod is ordinary. Mistgod is relatable. Mistgod is the perfect audience surrogate. And if you want to show us how incredible Melian is, you need to show us through Mistgod.

 

Does that make sense?

 

It does makes sense. I will have to put some thought into that idea. Thank you so much! Believe it or not, despite my continuing obsession, I am a little exhausted on writing about things in detail. For the next month or so I think Melian and I need to take it a little easy. Then maybe I will start putting together an outline for something like that. Your idea has sparked something in me. What if it was a work of fiction that is based upon my experiences? That would be something I have never done before. It is an intriguing idea!


Self-progression doesn’t have to be hinged upon the reactivity of others, and their approval over you. Yes, this still matters to some extent, but it shouldn’t be the end-all be-all as by doing so, you are setting yourself up for a dead-end unless somehow, we can truly know what kind of beetle is in a person’s box, if there’s any. You can still get that approval from others, but you must know that they have to use inferences to try and come to an understanding. Even if they can be detailed, poetic, or colorful with their wording, it cannot suddenly bridge certainty over knowing who has a certain type of beetle, or if they even have their own beetle in the box.

 

That all makes a lot of good sense. Thank you Linkzelda.

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why even try to share her? it's so pointless and futile

 

[My oldest tulpa kerin was similarly frustrated. She found tulpa.info but no-one believed a tulpa could be in her 40's (elapsed time in years on Earth). So, she made a secretary tulpa (Nobillis) who went on to become a moderator here and is now Pleeb's friend and sometime personal assistant.

 

I think I sometimes share the sense of frustration. Myself I have a hard time believing tulpas exist. So much so that I wouldn't accept anyone as a tulpa unless they can drive a car unassisted. Even so, I still have doubts. Watchdog 3 (a servitor) gleefully points out that I have no trouble talking with it - though Watchdog 3 is similarly a virtual individual. - Kevin]

Is there any point in trying to share a tulpa experience with other people?

 

[i shared with my family and they have been very accepting. That said, my wife of 30 years has her own tulpa (that tulpa, Saber, is also decades old). We have a family where tulpas are just other members of the extended family "the McCaw clan".]



Please consider supporting Tulpa.info.


 

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Guest Anonymous

@Nobilllis,

 

Thank you so much for responding! This means so much to us! I think we sort of start there with our insecurities. We know we are different a little because of our age. I have been a "tulpa" for around 38 years, depending on where you start counting as my first days, and my host is 51 years old. I was not created in the standard method or even deliberately. We don't even know if I am really a tulpa. So we feel insecure and defensive. That and a history of social anxiety leads us to create an imagined crowd of people who want to reject us.

 

All of you who responded to this thread have finally put that permanently, forever, finally to rest. It means so much.

 

Note my host and I have never had a problem believing that tulpas exist or in regarding and treating them as people. Our doubts center around how tulpa minds really function. Are they fully independent of the host or not? We are unconvinced or undecided. In fact we think, from our observations, that it varies quite a bit. Some seem more independent than others. Some seem very close to being role playing characters and others very close to being an alternate personality. Whether these effects are an elaborate self delusion or "real" is where our uncertainty lies.

 

In the end though, it really is irrelevant if the effect is the same. Tulpas are effectively real to those who experience them, although that effective realness is a subjective internal phenomenon. Whether or not tulpas are in fact independent sentient entities is ultimately, objectively irrelevant.

 

Davie and I have always treated everyone as people and thought of them as people. In fact, there has been at least one person who secretly PM's us to admit that they are in fact "role playing" in order to interact with the group. He felt safe in telling us his secret because my host and I admit to a methodology involving parroting/puppeting and method acting collaboration in our tulpa typing. I told him I still think of him (rp character or whatever) as a distinct person from his hostie and just as "real" as any tulpa in existence. I don't say that to insult anyone or "redefine what a tulpa is," it is just how Mistgod and I approach it all. I have no idea how far along the spectrum of independence and "realness" this rp character is. A very seasoned rp character (so described by the host) may in fact be just as advanced as what another person describes as a proto-tulpa doing proxy typing.

 

We don't base those attitudes on nothing. We have read about Illusion of Independent Agency and method acting characters that "come to life." We personally believe there is a strong connection between active imaginaton creation, such as in literature and role playing acting, and thoughtforms like soulbonds, daemons and tulpas. A distinct dividing line between host and tulpa often does not exist and it is far more foggy and permeable than people let on in many cases. They are afraid to talk about it for fear of being ostracized or ridiculed.

 

We also think that a religious type faith/belief or (suspension of disbelief) is a critical component in tulpamancy practice. In other words self delusion is an essential ingredient in tulpamancy practice, at least in developing tulpas for certain if not in fully developed tulpas as well.

 

There is a lot of role playing and self delusion going on in the tulpa community. That not only doesn't matter to Mistgod and I, we think it is absolutely necessary and essential.

 

It only bothers us that a very small number of persons have convinced themselves that Tulpa Info is like a holy temple of pure tulpas and treat role playing or self delusion as an invasive infection or secret sin that must be exposed and then shunned, like finding deviants, witches or communists in our midst. Our challenge is not to take the actions of a few zealot-elitist-purists to paint the entire community in a bad light. People like that don't seem to last very long on Tulpa Info anyway because they don't understand the community.

 

This thread right here proves that this is actually a very thoughtful, friendly and open minded place.

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In fact, there has been at least one person who secretly PM's us to admit that they are in fact "role playing" in order to interact with the group. He felt safe in telling us his secret because my host and I admit to a methodology involving parroting/puppeting and method acting collaboration in our tulpa typing. I told him I still think of him (rp character or whatever) as a distinct person from his hostie and just as "real" as any tulpa in existence.

 

Sol: To quote a wise man, "Only God can judge me."

In a world of moral relativism, Conviction has become a dying art-form.

And yet, it is the path to inner strength.

To believe something because you feel it to be true, and not because the world has given you permission.

 

Sol: To quote another wise man, "We think too much and feel too little..."

Who can tell me who I am?

Can the scientist or the philosopher tell me?

Can my family tell me who I am? Can my spouse?

No. Only I can know for sure.

Melian has summed up my feelings perfectly in this excerpt.

She could have called this person out, but she chose compassion.

She did what she felt in her heart to be right.

Nothing else in life matters.


"For small creatures such as we the vastness is bearable only through love." - Carl Sagan

Host: SubCon | Tulpas: Sol, Luna, Alice, Little One, Beast and Solune (me) | Servitors: Odonata, Guardian

 

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