Guest Anonymous

Shared Wonderlands via the Internet and Egregore Tulpas (non metaphysical)

Recommended Posts

Guest Anonymous

Mistgod: I wanted to write about a strange aspect of my thoughtform Melian and I will try to keep this as simple and brief as I can. Melian exists within a dream universe, within day dreams she calls the Melian Show and within dreams as a nightly dream persona. When she communicates online when proxy typing (what she calls tulpa typing) she feels she is connecting to other people through a mutual dreamscape, what she calls the “cyberspace wonderland.” Her communicating online is just an extension of our Melian Show day dreams in which she and I interact. It is the medium in which she exists.

 

Because she has this mental vision of a mutual cyberspace dreamland in which she communicates with people via the internet, Melian really does feel she is an egregore of sorts. For those who do not know what an egregore is, it is basically a tulpa that exists in the mind of more than one person or that manifests into reality because more than one person is thinking about it. It is kind of a Creepy Pasta sort of idea although it doesn’t have to be dark and spooky. Freddy Kruegar from the Nightmare on Elm Street movies is an example of a dream egregore.

 

Melian loves it when people draw portraits of her. It shows that people have their own individual visions of what she looks like. So far to date she has been drawn over 80 times by many artists of various skill levels. It really reinforces that idea for her that she is a dream egregore or day dream egregore. She loves it when someone reports dreaming about her, even if she cannot recall having visited their dreams. So far this has been reported by people several times, that they dreamed about her. She even has a “magic ring” on her finger, that she and I imagined up one day, that allows her to enhance her ability to enter the dreams of other people. It really is a big theme to her and she gets so excited about it.

 

When she and I have mutual dreams at night, Melian’s common dream universe is a theme in our dreams as is her status as a dream egregore. In our dreams, she can often communicate telepathically with all the dream personas in the dream. I think this reflects how she feels about communicating on the internet and what it means to her.

 

This also touches on role playing a little bit. Melian likes to do a little bit of narration in her proxy typing like this *Melian's kisses your nose.* To her this is not role playing, it is narration necessary to maintain the mutual day dream environment in which she is interacting with you. It really is how she thinks about it.

 

Note she is not thinking of all of this in a metaphysical sense like telepathy or an actual telepathic egregore. She just feels it is creating a mutual day dream environment.

 

We were wondering if any other tulpas have similar feelings about proxy typing and being shared on the internet?

 

What do you guys think of Melian's idea of a shared cyberspace wonderland? Is there anything to that?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't bother with the term egregore in non-metaphysical contexts because it's giving a fancy word to an extremely common phenomenon. All the people who love "celebrities" from works of fiction are creating egregores, as I like to give as an example Harry Potter has affected the world in many ways, and has certainly perpetuated his existence throughout our world. He doesn't actually "exist", though.

 

Although in this case you're saying that egregore is supposedly directly interacting with those who hold belief of them. Sure, I guess that's a bit more special. Unfortunately, I'm me. The Harry Potter, Melian or Reisen, and friend or parent you hold in your mind are all the same thing to me. You perceive the world and experience exclusively what your mind knows. Removed from all ongoing contexts (such as purely in memory), no family member nor tulpa or internet-goer nor fictional character are any more or less real than another. Direct interaction does put tulpas a step above fictional characters, however.

 

 

Tulpas are as "egregore" to me as what we think of as "Mistgod" or "Luminesce", Youtube celebrities, McDonalds, anything/one you think you "know". They're all just profiles your mind's created in response to sensory information, and you've labelled them varying levels of "real" according to their perceived sentience/autonomy and ability to affect you.


Hi! I'm Lumi, host of Reisen, Tewi, Flandre and Lucilyn.

Everyone deserves to love and be loved. It's human nature.

My tulpas and I have a Q&A thread, which was the first (and largest) of its kind. Feel free to ask us stuff.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Anonymous

Luminesce, I get what you are saying about everyone being an egregore, but you are missing the level of this concerning Mel's personality and what I am trying to explain I think.

 

When I type at people, me Mistgod, it feels mundane like typing on the internet and nothing special. When Melian types on the internet, to her it feels like full blown multimedia telepathic communication, like a radio or tv broadcast. She even gets special effects like mood music to go with it and little sound effects when she says something (drum rolls and cymbals when she jokes and little bubble pops when she gets surprised or makes a silly face). It is the Melian Show broadcast out to your brain, live from Melian Studios. This idea seeps into our dreams and she can communicate telepathically into the minds of the dream characters.

 

That is what I mean by sharing her cyberspace wonderland.

 

You make it sound so mundane and dull. I realize you don't actually perceive what Melian imagines on your end of the internet, but she imagines you do and wants you to. She will do anything she can to animate herself for you. She absolutely loves seeming to be real to other people and not just boring old text on the screen. To her tulpa typing is a chance to be a ham!

 

Funny you mentioned characters like Harry Potter, because she would LOVE, LOVE, LOVE to be that famous and adored! That is her dream right there for everyone to know and love her and want to find her on the internet.

 

EDIT: Also I would say that Melian is no more real than Harry Potter is. Both "exist" as examples of something that is pseudo-real. But let's not get into that debate again.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

She even has a “magic ring” on her finger, that she and I imagined up one day, that allows her to enhance her ability to enter the dreams of other people. It really is a big theme to her and she gets so excited about it.

 

In case you haven't already found it, the Lucid Crossroads 3D pics are neat: http://www.lucidcrossroads.net/gettingus.htm

 

 

Melian likes to do a little bit of narration in her proxy typing like this *Melian's kisses your nose.* To her this is not role playing, it is narration necessary to maintain the mutual day dream environment in which she is interacting with you. It really is how she thinks about it.

Not interacting necessarily with me, though, but I think, with my persona in the social Jungian sense rather than alter-ego sense? Like, persona can be cultivated, curated...basically under a person's control. However, because it is societal, it is not under complete control. Confusingly, the way other people take it or project onto it is also part of a persona.

 

The societal aspect of persona ought to be another separate thing entirely; but, I almost get why psychology texts keep the distinction blurry. In fandom speak it's called "headcanon", and it's understandably uncomfortable when someone's headcanon of a living physical person doesn't match up with that living physical person. Wildly varying opinions or versions when it comes to fiction are fine, but in real life it's generally frowned upon to misrepresent oneself or even to misunderstand too much. It's more complicated than that, of course: Is professionalism a misrepresentation? Can't a popular misunderstanding become a social truth, and those who know the facts be dismissed or persecuted for "wilfully misunderstanding"? That's for a whole 'nother discussion.

 

But what I meant to throw out there is that maybe Mel kisses the noses of some low-level accidental tulpas that simultaneously parrot the creator, because it's inevitable that such would be generated. They're generated in every interaction, the someone-else's-headcanon aspect of persona, based of course (hopefully!) on what, for instance, I say and do if it's my persona we're making an example from.

 

So it's metaphorically like...I wear a mask, Mel paints it while it's still on my face. Is the mask the shape, or the color? The mask is both. Mel online could be like being at a masquerade ball full of disembodied dancers.

 

By the same rule, Mel or even Davie is a tulpersona that I have made based on information, that comes up as it's generated, and that's what I formulate replies to. By complete coincidence, there are also someones who take this info and do with it what masks alone cannot. (That's Actual Davie and/or Actual Mel: I cannot paint on masks that are not present.)

 

 

We were wondering if any other tulpas have similar feelings about proxy typing and being shared on the internet?

Corporeal me has been the only one interested in having any online presence. So, I blog about Lusmore; Lusmore does not have a blog.

 

What do you guys think of Melian's idea of a shared cyberspace wonderland? Is there anything to that?

I believe it's also called a habitus: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Habitus_(sociology)

 

Known in English (rather than Latin, who even still speaks Latin? Lawyers? Wizards? Nobody says habitus...) as "spaces", not in the quantum physics sense of space, but in the sociological sense. Like, it's not church as real estate, but church because everyone goes there expecting to be in a certain state of mind; in that case, a sideways car of a wrecked train can be a church if that's what mindset people bring. That makes it a spiritual space.

 

Online forums don't really take up physical space, but we can call them spaces because of the mode of thought it predisposes people to.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Anonymous

 

In case you haven't already found it, the Lucid Crossroads 3D pics are neat: http://www.lucidcrossroads.net/gettingus.htm

 

I will get to commenting on the rest of your response later. But this lucid dreaming crossroads thing is really interesting. Melian already tried something like this once on Deviantart with a group she called the Dream Nexus. She had the dreamers imagine they were wearing t-shirts in the dream. It was an attempt to create a common dreamscape with members of the group.

 

dream_nexus_t_shirt_by_melianofmist-d6wd4c0.jpg

 

To the rest of your response. Yeah it is obvious that Melian cannot be a real egregore in the metaphysical sense. Each person would have a representation of her, or their own copy of her, that is colored by their own imagination of what they think about Melian. She actually finds that part exciting! That's why she loves artists drawing her from the images they have of her in their minds. Each artist has their own interpretation of Melian.

 

perceptions_of_melian_by_melianofmist-da93o0q.png

 

That is true of the common space as well. Each person will have their own version of that common dreamscape. There were will be elements of commonality so that we can recognize that it is supposed to be the same space, but each person will interpret those elements differently in their imagination.

 

This happens when we read books. My version of the book The Lord of the Rings would be different than your version of The Lord of the Rings in how we visualize the places and events in the story. My version of Gandalf might be slightly different than your mental version of Gandalf. Even though he recognized by both of us as Gandalf.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Luminesce, I get what you are saying about everyone being an egregore, but you are missing the level of this concerning Mel's personality and what I am trying to explain I think.

 

When I type at people, me Mistgod, it feels mundane like typing on the internet and nothing special. When Melian types on the internet, to her it feels like full blown multimedia telepathic communication, like a radio or tv broadcast. She even gets special effects like mood music to go with it

 

Well in that case, no we don't relate at all lol. I was just trying to post something on topic.

 

You make it sound so mundane and dull. I realize you don't actually perceive what Melian imagines on your end of the internet, but she imagines you do and wants you to.

 

Believe it or not, despite my horrid visualization clarity, I'm otherwise quite good at visualizing things when they're expressed to me. As in, reading books to me is equivalent to watching movies, and I have actually failed to remember if I had seen the movie adaptation of a book or just read the book. Turned out I had only read the book, and just had vivid scene depictions that were movie-like. Thinking back to any book I've read provides me with random movie scenes when no such movies exist.

 

Crappy clarity visualization of those scenes, but that's just "normal visualization" to me. Anyways, I can't say I really experience the things Melian does or says she did in a meaningful way, but I certainly visualize them as I read. And that's why I feel like I know her so well. If I can picture how someone would react in new situations I feel like I know them well. I've got very vague images of your "wonderland", too. Castle with various fairytale creatures around it, and a room with a large computer in it (forgot what you called it - something like Magictron 3000?). If I were going to spend time improving that image I would spend it on our own wonderland though.


Hi! I'm Lumi, host of Reisen, Tewi, Flandre and Lucilyn.

Everyone deserves to love and be loved. It's human nature.

My tulpas and I have a Q&A thread, which was the first (and largest) of its kind. Feel free to ask us stuff.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

While this might begin to stray off online meta or even into soulbond territory, I definitely consider the fandom spaces angle interesting and related. Mel might want to steel herself, because I'm about to ask something possibly upsetting out of curiosity: How varied would these get before she's not Davie's Mel anymore, and how to deal with that?

 

Because I have encountered some wildly different interpretations of any or all given characters ever. Sure, Davie you find Mel so awesomesauce that you wouldn't keep her to yourself, neither do any of us and that is probably why this community remains so active. But how to take or handle something like...the interpretation of Melian as an Aryan supremacist, only because she has blonde hair and blue eyes? Or interpreting Melian as a survivor of childhood sexual abuse? Or, a single flaw of Mel's like sometimes overstepping awesome into snarky then getting an exaggerated interpretation of outright sociopathic? (Ulp, that last link even has a picture!)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Anonymous

Crappy clarity visualization of those scenes, but that's just "normal visualization" to me. Anyways, I can't say I really experience the things Melian does or says she did in a meaningful way, but I certainly visualize them as I read. And that's why I feel like I know her so well. If I can picture how someone would react in new situations I feel like I know them well. I've got very vague images of your "wonderland", too. Castle with various fairytale creatures around it, and a room with a large computer in it (forgot what you called it - something like Magictron 3000?). If I were going to spend time improving that image I would spend it on our own wonderland though.

 

Hey you got her wonderland down pretty good! The land around the dreamscape mansion consists of a forest of big pine trees forever enshrouded in mist. I am called Misgod because the dreamscape is often associated with mists and fog.

 

If you are good at visualizing from literature, I guess it is a good thing Mel and I love to write! LOL


While this might begin to stray off online meta or even into soulbond territory, I definitely consider the fandom spaces angle interesting and related. Mel might want to steel herself, because I'm about to ask something possibly upsetting out of curiosity: How varied would these get before she's not Davie's Mel anymore, and how to deal with that?

 

Because I have encountered some wildly different interpretations of any or all given characters ever. Sure, Davie you find Mel so awesomesauce that you wouldn't keep her to yourself, neither do any of us and that is probably why this community remains so active. But how to take or handle something like...the interpretation of Melian as an Aryan supremacist, only because she has blonde hair and blue eyes? Or interpreting Melian as a survivor of childhood sexual abuse? Or, a single flaw of Mel's like sometimes overstepping awesome into snarky then getting an exaggerated interpretation of outright sociopathic? (Ulp, that last link even has a picture!)

 

No it doesn't upset me or Melian. In fact, it has already happened to a shocking level. Melian met a friend online who wanted to draw and paint her. She was happy to let him of course. They talked and flirted online. Turns out this guy was a hentai artist and had a website (no I will not say which one). He asked Melian if she would mind doing some cameos in a few of his comics. She was like "uhhh sure, I guess." Well, Melian's cameos got pretty erotic to put it mildly. So somewhere out there, floating around the internet world, are some very pornographic stories involving a version of a nymphomaniac Melian. I have a couple of the drawings he did, which Melian and I will not be sharing here.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

No it doesn't upset me or Melian. In fact, it has already happened to a shocking level.

Phew, well as long as you're secure in the integrity of your creative vision!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This is something I imagine that I think about more than the average teenager here. As I'm almost 31 now, children may not be far away. I've often thought about sharing Fenchurch with my children. I wonder what that would be like. In a way, she might outlive me.


"Some things have to be believed to be seen." - Ralph Hodgson

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.