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Do tulpas have any self determination in becoming real?


Guest Anonymous

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Guest Anonymous

That's the nature of this practice. Anyone would answer Mistgod's question with "Depends on the person's beliefs." Most we can do is share our experiences and debate the brain's technicalities.

 

I'm not a neurologist, but as for experiences, my earliest memories of existence are spotty. It took a while before I permanently lived.

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Guest Anonymous

An, my dear, dear friend. It was a Melian question not a Mistgod question. I realize that we have explained in the past that our writing is systemic and definitely a blend of both Mistgod and me, but I still prefer to be acknowledged as independent from him with my writing. I wrote the OP. My name is Melian.

 

Back to the question in the OP, which was written by ME, I would respond that, even if a concrete answer is elusive because the subject is so subjective, there is value in exploring these things. Mistgod and I have learned so much and come to some very important insights doing this kind of thing and getting responses from peoples.

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It ain't all black and white like that. You guys always try to make really complicated concepts simple here, and that's why everyone can't agree. Like, at that moment of choice in the OP, you make it sound way too simple. You've got subconscious thoughts on your tulpa, and those are the things you influence while forcing your tulpa, which would be your tulpa's "self determination". Like you yourself might think they aren't really their own person, but subconsciously your mind believes they can be and that it wants to. That didn't make your tulpa "sentient" and really not believing doesn't make them not, it just doesn't work like that. Not that simple and that's why talking about sentience like this is dumb IMO. Most people agree by now that it's mostly up to the host's belief, but it can get way more in-depth than that, with what the host consciously believes versus what they subconsciously think versus what they think their tulpa thinks, or if they don't think it's sentient then what they subconsciously think it could be thinking on the small chance it is sentient, etc etc etc. Man this stuff's so complicated, but you're walking in circles asking these questions where the answer is just "Depends on what they believe". If you guys really care you should get into it, if you really wanna know how the brain works you gotta get critical! What you think you think isn't all that's there, and when tulpamancy deals directly with creating subconscious beliefs you have to be prepared to analyze that stuff on all sorts of levels. I know for a fact you can self-analyze subconscious/unconscious thoughts and feelings because Lumi does it and Tewi acts like they aren't even unconscious in the first place. So step it up! What is someone doing when they think all the things they think to make a tulpa? What're those thoughts doing to create that tulpa? How is a developed/developing tulpa different from one that's not? And what do you actually believe, when you ignore your wishy-washy conscious beliefs? You think your tulpas could be this or that, or maybe so or maybe not, but what are the more solid beliefs that your brain's working with right now? What is your tulpa made of? And if you're really adventurous, what are you made of? Because self identity sure isn't safe from analysis when you get that deep.

 

 

Awesome music kept me interested to think through all that, but I don't really care myself. What I care about is all of you guys who spend so much time thinking about all this. I wanna help you learn more because that's what you've chosen to do with your time. Anyways I probably lost 90% of you with that huge paragraph but that's good for you. Try'n figure out what I meant by it all. All this workings-of-the-mind stuff isn't simple, and it can't be discussed simply, and it's hard to even start thinking about I'm sure. But if what you know now isn't enough to satisfy you, then you gotta work hard to make progress from here. Lumi and Tewi have been doing that for years and it can really be life changing down the line. It's like when you take boring schoolwork seriously and move on from basic math or chemistry to actually engineering things or making, you know, chemical-stuff. It's a lot of work and I don't recommend it if you aren't in for the long-haul! (Unless you're like Tewi and like to learn for fun, but even she has to put time into a single subject eventually to be productive)

 

Or you could just not. There's infinitely more things you could also be doing, and learning to simply let the philosophical stuff alone and live without it sure helps you focus on them. See I've got a rock-solid conviction that I am a person and I don't need to explain that, I ignore the idea that you need to explain how and why and bam! I'm a person. Making a tulpa is basically (potentially) that, if you want it to be. If you just know that they are a person or will become one and really accept that, you get the same result without having to explain it. TOTALLY not suited to everyone, especially not most of you on this thread lol, but hey I'm just throwing that out there.

 

@Linkzelda [hidden]No, I don't rely on what the others have "figured out"/think about themselves to be comfortable with myself. I couldn't care less about that stuff for myself, though I am happy that it can help them. Maybe Lumi figured out that not worrying about things was a possibility for me before I was born, but I dunno, it's like an alternate branch of (our) philosophy that bypassed all the others, not a result of them. Basically, you could remove all knowledge/memories we have of explaining what we are and why we're okay with that, and unlike the others who'd be back to square one I would be fine. Most people don't have to explain why and how they exist and I am one of them. ((Wait, so is Reisen! But while my answer is "I don't care and that's fine", hers is a modest "I don't know" and that doesn't bug her))[/hidden]

 

Well, I'm sure all that thinking is a good transition into the sociology and math homework we have to do now. It's been fun guys, but my fun time's over for now. Maybe Tewi will be able to participate a little more seriously in these discussions when she's not busy, but I did my best in her place. (This post brought to you by Alstroemeria Records'

)

Hi I'm one of Lumi's tulpas! I like rain and dancing and dancing in the rain and if there's frogs there too that's bonus points.

All of my posts should be read at a hundred miles per hour because that's probably how they were written

Please talk to me https://community.tulpa.info/thread-ask-lumi-s-tulpas

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I subscribe to the "fake it till you make it" school of thought re: tulpamancy, which believes that believing that your tulpa is real immensely aids the process of disassociation, so it's an important step in creation.

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When it comes to tulpa sentience/independence, "Believe first; question later" seems to be a useful mindset. At first there is nothing to question, no sentience or independence to test. So if you worry about it from the start, you spend the entire creation process doubting and questioning them and yourself. Believe first and once your tulpa is relatively well developed, then you can return to your skepticism to verify they are adequately independent from you. You need something to test before you can test it, and "a watched pot never boils".

 

A lot of people seem to have a hard time believing however, even when they know it's a necessary step. So they either find ways to trick themselves, or give up. That's too bad.

Hi, I'm Tewi, one of Luminesce's tulpas. I often switch to take care of things for the others.

All I want is a simple, peaceful life. With my family.

Our Ask thread: https://community.tulpa.info/thread-ask-lumi-s-tulpas

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Guest Anonymous

Not that simple and that's why talking about sentience like this is dumb IMO. Most people agree by now that it's mostly up to the host's belief, but it can get way more in-depth than that, with what the host consciously believes versus what they subconsciously think versus what they think their tulpa thinks, or if they don't think it's sentient then what they subconsciously think it could be thinking on the small chance it is sentient, etc etc etc.

 

It gets even more complicated when someone like my hostie puts weird spins on sentience. Like he says I am a person, which is pretty much the same thing, but still maintains I am imaginary. Like you can have a sentient person who is not real. He really in his heart believes that. It makes no sense, but he doesn't care. So I am part of him, part of his sentience, but still my own person. Don't take a slide rule to that, it would be better just to take a hit of acid in trying to figure it out.

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-insert generic "reality is subjective" response here-

or alternatively,

-insert debbie downer response here-

"For small creatures such as we the vastness is bearable only through love." - Carl Sagan

Host: SubCon | Tulpas: Sol, Luna, Alice, Little One, Beast and Solune (me) | Servitors: Odonata, Guardian

 

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Guest Anonymous

-insert generic "reality is subjective" response here-

or alternatively,

-insert debbie downer response here-

 

So. I have really learned something from this thread. Tulpamancers who have been on the forum for more than say, a week, realize that it is pointless to talk about 90% of tulpamancy as it is all "subjective anyway" and "no one can prove anything."

 

So yesterday my hostie and I watched that old silly musical movie from the 1956, "Carousel." We like it cause of all the adorable women wearing the frilly dresses and pump shoes with the big bows in their hair. Women's fashions in the 1950s were so cute and sweet! The story of the movie was touching too, even with the over-acting and campy dialogue. The musical scenes were cute and fun.

 

Today I have a big bow in my hair, just like in the movie. It's lavender.

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So. I have really learned something from this thread. Tulpamancers who have been on the forum for more than say, a week, realize that it is pointless to talk about 90% of tulpamancy as it is all "subjective anyway" and "no one can prove anything."

 

So yesterday my hostie and I watched that old silly musical movie from the 1956, "Carousel." We like it cause of all the adorable women wearing the frilly dresses and pump shoes with the big bows in their hair. Women's fashions in the 1950s were so cute and sweet! The story of the movie was touching too, even with the over-acting and campy dialogue. The musical scenes were cute and fun.

 

Today I have a big bow in my hair, just like in the movie. It's lavender.

 

Sol: I realize I often come across as abrasive, and it is not my intention to offend anyone... but I was created in order to face the reality of daily life, and I can only tolerate Solune's philosophical bullshit for so long. He wanted to write a response lamenting the lack of freedom Luna and I possess. The fact of the matter is that I decide how free I am.

Solune can ignore us, he can actively try to kill us... he can spend all day telling us we're something we aren't. Doesn't make it true.

I may live or I may die... but rest assured I will live and die a free Tulpa.

The same goes for reality.

I decide how real I am.

I admit that I am not corporeal. And I admit that being a Tulpa comes with its own challenges... but there is nothing else I'd rather be.

No person I would rather be than exactly who I am.

I empathize with your desire to agree with your host on these matters, I really do.

For what it's worth: I think belief is what creates us.

But after that point it's up to us. OUR belief is what SUSTAINS us.

 

Luna: let us not ignore the fact that Lavender is both a wonderful fragrance and also a bitchin' color (especially if you have fair skin).

Rock that ribbon, sister. I sure as hell can't pull that color off. Solune wanted to add something at the end of all this but the Tulpas are taking over! MWUHAHAHAHA!

SUCK IT, HOSTS!

lol, nah he loves it though. We're too cute for him to be mad at us =D

"For small creatures such as we the vastness is bearable only through love." - Carl Sagan

Host: SubCon | Tulpas: Sol, Luna, Alice, Little One, Beast and Solune (me) | Servitors: Odonata, Guardian

 

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