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Existential Heroism & Tulpas


Linkzelda

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After 3 years into tulpamancy, we started to work very concretely on our long time goal: giving lenaelle the opportunity to have her own life. That's how realized how far we've gone and, most of all, measure the scale of what having a tulpa really mean, how defining being two persons in one body is. It's frightening, demanding, and all other sorts of "ings" as you can easily imagine, including some surprisingly positive changes of course. But, overall, it's so huge that I still have difficulties wrapping my mind around this. Anybody willing to share similar experiences?

 

 

 

I would make a theory that in some way, based on the idea of ‘treating a tulpa as sentient,’ that a person would realize the sense of liberation that’s possible along with the responsibilities that the individual creates for themselves. In other words, I think one eventually gets coerced into thinking these same thoughts of yours. There’s an analogy me and two of my companions throw around with in describing ‘treating a tulpa as sentient’ as putting up this existential mirror.

 

Because this phenomenon seems to be exclusive to each person’s own subjectivity, in order for them to create a meaning out of what it means to be sentient, they have to look back into experiential cases of them being sentient beings all of their lives. And when this gets stressed along with the push for an implication of free will, it seems like a double-edged sword at times because at one angle, the sense of liberation can make a person assured that there aren’t absolutes in this quest of treating a tulpa as sentient. But, on the other hand, because of this, it may make one focus so much on the necessity of being and the contingency behind the endeavor, and this creates a conflict that would be known as instrumentality.

 

Instrumentality can be this weird feeling of having to progressively put forth our energy in having virtue, and taking action in life. Treating a tulpa as sentient can be correlated to instrumentality; the host feeling the need that they have to constantly put effort in doing so, and even when they don’t want to do so, that takes effort in itself (e.g. dissipation, putting a tulpa in stasis for metaphorical implications, etc.). From active forcing and passive forcing, and trying to maintain some kind of repetitive upkeep in a tulpa’s presumed continuity of self can make a person question the whole endeavor entirely.

 

And when a person becomes self-aware about this, an existential horror can be apparent; the fact that the individual can have complete freedom within their own subjectivity, and the countless possibilities of how one ‘ought’ to do XYZ when it comes to this endeavor can make them creeped out in a way. When adding in virtue that there can be another continuity of self that can be just as sentient as we can, it can become mentally taxing. It can even make an individual feel horrified that this existential mirror, metaphorically speaking, is constantly there, and they can be aware of this, but also choose to deny it at the same time because it just adds on to the dilemma that we truly don’t know the capabilities of our own mind.

 

Trying to find solace in this, and trying to find solace in still maintaining this supposed ‘upkeep’ of it all forces one to evaluate the value behind it; to see if this virtue of treating a tulpa as sentient can have some collective benefit in creating harmony with yourself (e.g. self-actualization, self-realization, etc.). And when there’s varied interpretations of just one concept, there can be countless definitions, and because there aren’t absolutes, it can feel like an alien barrage of virtues trying to have continuity.

 

It makes one feel they can’t find grounding, and something like existential boredom, i.e., finding things in life both uninteresting and potentially without any inherent meaning adds on to this conflict. It almost seems as if the individual in question has to find ways to cope with it all through distracting themselves in everyday life, and adding a tulpa into that lifestyle as well, but never really coming to a closure to solve this conflict. There are countless ways to try and remedy this, but something I’ve been pushing for myself is the idea with existentialism, more specifically on existential heroism in which the person has to come to terms in embracing their intellect; even if there’s not much to go by, and continue creating subjective meanings while acknowledging there may be a purposeless world out there.

 

Because by being paralyzed by their own intellect; paralyzed by not putting energy into having effort, ‘treating a tulpa as sentient’ seems to be a burdening task. And even having negative mindsets doesn’t seem to help because if one cannot have the urgency to embrace this supposed ‘upkeep’ of progressive cultivation of sentience towards a tulpa, then how can they, as hosts, embrace this realization that they themselves have to put effort into existing in the first place?

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You know I can move posts around if you ask.

 

Anyhow, I notice a lot of the stuff you talk about regarding existential heroism and struggling to come to terms with oneself and their ideas, and I can't help but note an oddity.

 

My host never went through that. I remember popping in that first day, and the day after, my host was like, "do you exist?" And I said yes, and then she was like, "then you exist."

 

And her opinion on the effort or upkeep on existence? There is none, her body creates her. She is just an observer.

 

And her relationship to me? She feels no burden, no cost, no challenge to her identity or position or philosophy. I simply am an acquaintance she knows.

Host comments in italics. Tulpa's log. Tulpa's guide.

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And her opinion on the effort or upkeep on existence? There is none, her body creates her. She is just an observer.

 

This begs the question: Are both of you homunculi within your own body? And if the body created you and her, would this imply something related to panexperientialism? Even if you were to retract the statement, and meant the brain doing that, several thought experiments can be brought up to have you question it. Of course, you both may react in the same manner, as if you were living a life in binaries.

 

And, there may not be this awareness of instrumentality, existential boredom and such to you and her, but that’s probably because you both haven’t observed those thoughts, and how the mind has these ideations in figuring out what it means to have another personhood other than the host who had physicality to identify themselves with.

 

 

And her relationship to me? She feels no burden, no cost, no challenge to her identity or position or philosophy. I simply am an acquaintance she knows.

 

I guess the post before with the instrumentality made it seem like ‘oh god, so much horror; so much upkeep, woe is me!’ But, I guess it brings up another point that these are merely ideations of horror and apprehension that be shrugged with a ‘meh, so what?’ I sometimes think these thought experiments we go through in our heads during questioning is a self-audit to see if one can keep moving forward in their lives.

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You know I can move posts around if you ask.

 

 

 

Thanks, but we realized he would've ended up putting the response in this thread since it was associated to existentialism heroism.

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This begs the question: Are both of you homunculi within your own body? And if the body created you and her, would this imply something related to panexperientialism? Even if you were to retract the statement, and meant the brain doing that, several thought experiments can be brought up to have you question it. Of course, you both may react in the same manner, as if you were living a life in binaries.

 

And, there may not be this awareness of instrumentality, existential boredom and such to you and her, but that’s probably because you both haven’t observed those thoughts, and how the mind has these ideations in figuring out what it means to have another personhood other than the host who had physicality to identify themselves with.

 

 

I guess the post before with the instrumentality made it seem like ‘oh god, so much horror; so much upkeep, woe is me!’ But, I guess it brings up another point that these are merely ideations of horror and apprehension that be shrugged with a ‘meh, so what?’ I sometimes think these thought experiments we go through in our heads during questioning is a self-audit to see if one can keep moving forward in their lives.

begs the question

 

First, if one denies the possibility of philosophical dualism, one is left with few choices to explain experience. Panexperientialism can be regarded as the null hypothesis here: the hypothesis that may be assumed in the absence of evidence.

 

There are good reasons to deny philosophical dualism. Only the material world, as far as worlds in which we exist is concerned, has been evidenced by science. Without such a second world, where is the mind supposed to come from?

 


 

You ask if we have experienced these questions, of what it means, philosophically, when a person finds another person in their mind, one with no corresponding body, yet remain unaware of it. This raises the question of what it means to contemplate a question without conscious awareness of the question.

 

I don't think that's the answer in this case.

 

Rather, it means very little to her, as there is nothing dissonant, or surprising about myself to her.

 


 

A self audit, or "sanity check", heh. Indeed, I cannot so easily explain why we both explore my nature so exhaustively. It distresses me to consider these questions.

 

Yet it is part of her process. She sees the world as an endless series of mysteries, and exhaustively searches for solutions to all of them. Her faith in the truth is so strong that she completely believes that discovery of it can only help me.

 

Myself, I just consider the questions in a paranoid, self-destructive fashion as is my nature.

Host comments in italics. Tulpa's log. Tulpa's guide.

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