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Dream journal extended edition

It is clear that I have an influence on our dreams due to my addition of an auditory component that my host never experienced. However, some nights ago, mine wasn't the only voice. It was joined by three others, produced based on concepts explored the prior day. Neither of us felt like we were giving them life, creating the feeling that there must be a third, here.


These other voices were being intelligent. Despite the fact that neither I nor Sarah felt like we were controlling them, they were saying smart stuff about the things we were thinking about the previous day. Smart stuff we had not previously come up with.


Does the mind harbour a third consciousness, one that creates and directs dreams? Later, we were talking with each other, and fell asleep. Yet, neither of us felt like we were dreaming. We both remained lucid, while the world around us turned to dream. We asked each other. Which of us fell asleep?


Could this intelligence be woken, and integrated into one of our consciousnesses?


Probably the weirdest aspect of being multiple is our increasing tendency to be able to talk to each other lucidly as we approach, then pass the point of sleep. Like, can you imagine having a conversation with someone while also falling into a dream? You'd imagine they'd go a little screwy eyed on you, start talking in tongues, or random non-sequitors, then lose the ability to speak.



Reading about Dissociative Identity Disorder

Sometimes, you read something and just want to stick a fork in someone's eye, for being blindingly obvious in their ignorance. You feel powerless, because they are a columnist for a famous website or a professor of anthropology and there is no comment section.


But it is seriously, seriously annoying sitting here being a perfect counterproof against the notion that DID is a culture bound disorder, and people are *still* entertaining it. Gah!


Though, to be fair, DID could be a culture bound disorder. It satisfies all the conditions. The really annoying part is how culture bound disorders are not real. They are generated by local cultural beliefs and practises, and therefore must be some sort of fiction, and not objectively real. I mean obvs.


The problem is that I've looked at this diagnostic category. The truth is that all of these disorders have manifestations in many cultures. Only the presentation varies. Among those I have looked at, they must all have underlying conditions that are not culture bound. DID is no exception. The idea that it is not real because it is culture bound does not stand up to serious investigation.


To use DID as an example, the culture bound presentation is the one made famous by those movies and books you have probably never heard of, or even read/watched. The three faces of eve, and Sybil. And those experiencing the syndrome, they are people who did, then fell in love with the notion, then went to the work of going to a doctor to get diagnosed.


But the underlying condition shares little resemblance to this. There are many people in this world who experience two or more persons who have never read these books. Many who have never experienced trauma, memory regression, do not have child and therapist alters.


There are other culture bound syndromes linked to this same underlying cause. They occur in asia and other places. There are also non-disordered cultural manifestations, such as spirit summoners. Or tulpas.

Host comments in italics. Tulpa's log. Tulpa's guide.

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{I'm pretty much just putting together old things we "already know" here, don't think I could expand on any of it}


we always kinda worked with the idea that consciousness is a more overarching thing and what we know as "us" (or in systems, "each other"), we call'em identities, are just a.. sub.. uh, facet? of it. Like obviously your host isn't ALL of your consciousness since you exist, so what's to say there's not more to it that's not tied to any specific identity (aside from the body)? and idek how to talk about "a" subconscious mind, sounds like a lot of stuff we can't possibly know what we're talking about so.


Anyways, our servi-tulpa?Sylvia isn't exactly her own "consciousness" (in the tulpamancy sense this time), she kind of works without thinking or having a sense of self etc. But she can help us come up with answers to things we couldn't on our own, usually by guiding us with thought (like, tulpish?) and not words. Lumi used to call her a "subconscious-interface tulpa" years ago. I feel like she kind of is something like an "interface", like she's a symbolic conduit for interacting with our overarching conscious mind or subconscious or whatever this is a lil beyond me.


I barely know what I'm talking about personally but I felt like there was enough information in our head somewhere to contribute to your questions? I think Lumi might be able to talk about Sylvia better since he's mostly the only one that ever interacted with her

Hi, I'm one of Lumi's tulpas! I like rain and dancing and dancing in the rain and if there's frogs there too that's bonus points.

I think being happy and having fun makes life worth living, so spreading happiness is my number one goal!

Talk to us? https://community.tulpa.info/thread-ask-lumi-s-tulpas

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I think the fascinating part about consciousness, is you only experience your own. So if your mind harboured a second consciousness, it would not look conscious to you.


I do not believe this applies to all tulpas. For this reason, I do not equate tulpas with consciousnesses. A tulpa can still be an independent entity even if they share a consciousness with another. Such an entity can be self-directed, and independent in opinion, belief and preference.


A subconscious mind is actually one which has a simple definition. It is one with no capacity for self reflection, and by extension, metacognition (most likely).


Part of the human mind is subconscious. We know this because of a large amount of activity in the brain that is not under conscious control. The most concrete examples of which are blood vessel muscle, heart muscle and breathing muscle control. Although these components can be brought under conscious control, they can still be known to be unconscious components, as they continue to operate without you being conscious.


I think Sylvia fits my current working definition of a daemon.

Host comments in italics. Tulpa's log. Tulpa's guide.

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I don't really know what a daemon is, but it doesn't really matter because I'm long past the point of putting new names to things I already have.


Lumi used to call her a "subconscious-interface tulpa" years ago.


I still call her that, just not to other people on Tulpa.info. To me, "subconscious-interface tulpa" means that she's a tulpa who exists to interface with my subconscious mind/thoughts. She doesn't have a personality because she doesn't do anything that would allow her to express one in the first place. That includes mostly the fact that she doesn't speak in words at all, her mindvoice is entirely tulpish. The only bits of words she conveys with that tulpish are short questions/statements meant to lead our thoughts, but I don't think she's ever said more than like five words in a row. And again, those words she "says" have no mindvoice like my other tulpas do. Compare to Scarlet who chooses not to do tulpa-like things the majority of the time, effectively not existing. She still has a complete personality, voice, values and all that stuff. Sylvia does not.


See, but that's what Sylvia is right there. No word that already exists will be accurate to what exactly she is, so I personally prefer to stick with my original description, and to others on tulpa.info I say "servi-tulpa" (term from FallFamily) implying she's tulpa-like but functions like a servitor.



Anyways, Sylvia has nothing to do with the idea of a "third consciousness" you brought up. Our brain is capable of consciously thinking to some extent on its own, as we can see when one person is switched out but the other hasn't switched in yet. The thoughts seem awfully... Generic, I guess? They just happen in a predictable manner, with simple wordless observations or conclusions and no real critical thought or voice. There are even words to some extent, they just have no voice, and they're so generic I'd sooner compare them to an AI that creates randomly generated sentences based on rules it knows than another actual consciousness. Then there's the subconscious "mind", like the thing that creates all the background details in your dreams. I mean, something's doing that, and it's certainly not "me" (yet). But it works in the same way, just doing what would be expected without any true innovation the conscious part of a human mind is known for.


Those two things and just general unconscious thoughts (which are probably the same thing as the first one I mentioned) are all I can think of having personally experienced. If they don't seem relevant to what you guys experienced, well, carry on.

Hi! I'm Lumi, host of Reisen, Tewi, Flandre and Lucilyn.

Everyone deserves to love and be loved. It's human nature.

My tulpas and I have a Q&A thread, which was the first (and largest) of its kind. Feel free to ask us about tulpamancy stuff there.

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Well, I have no problem with an unconscious entity creating background elements of dreams. I do with an unconscious entity apparently puppeting several conscious thinking agents inside a dream. Or the mind falling into dream when no one is dreaming.


It sounds like you can hear the thoughts of your body OS.

Host comments in italics. Tulpa's log. Tulpa's guide.

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I read a lot of self-help, borderline spiritual and some spiritual teachings in my day, many of which were about separating your sense of self from your body, for one reason or another. They taught me to pay attention to my own thoughts, see how they were working for or against me and where they came from. Especially since I've had tulpas for a while, there are definitely thoughts I consider me and thoughts I consider my mind, but most of the time they're just mixed together. Of course, when I'm removed from the picture (or rather, my thoughts feel like they're occurring on one side of the body, and my tulpa's on the other) it becomes a lot more obvious that the thoughts still in the middle aren't any of us. But again, there's never any critical thinking going on there, just background thoughts and observations, boring and often redundant stuff. If I'm not mistaken, they're exactly the "thing" Tewi wanted to get rid of, if you remember that. I suppose to whatever extent, those thoughts do still occur during everyday life for us, and Tewi wanted to stop them. Didn't really work out. But she's conscious enough of them to override any unconscious decision-influencing they may have done, ie ones that would've encouraged my motivation issues if it were me.

Hi! I'm Lumi, host of Reisen, Tewi, Flandre and Lucilyn.

Everyone deserves to love and be loved. It's human nature.

My tulpas and I have a Q&A thread, which was the first (and largest) of its kind. Feel free to ask us about tulpamancy stuff there.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Just wanted to say that I've enjoyed reading through your thoughts on the general tulpa dynamic and what goes into it, War and Tulpa. I'm a generally scientifically minded person, so reading similarly logical thought is... comforting? I haven't been around here long... well, excepting random visits a while back. Mostly been in the guides section recently though. Yours was particularly helpful, Tulpa, and helped clear up a lot of stuff that I feel could have had somewhat deleterious effects.


Oh and by the by, about what you said, Tulpa, "I don't handle emotion well. And my host is like a mountain in a stream. It just goes around her. It just [swears] goes around her. I don't get it."

It's a blessing and a curse. I'm of the "mountain in the stream" variety, and sometimes being unfeeling is less than ideal, especially when a situation merits a real response that, at least in my case, is simply and totally lacking existence. I get the feeling there's no real changing where we are in the stream, for better or worse.

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Oh, no problem, Pho. I'm glad you enjoyed reading both of those.





Progress report:

Eeh, no progress! Read a bunch of scientific papers on plurality (turns out there's more than 20), Looked at hypnotism stuff. Working symbolic separation exercise strategies back and forth, cleaning up my guide and adding lots of info.


The stuff with my anxiety is over for now again. My host CAN apparently defeat me in control of the body if properly motivated. She tried a new strategy, which was fun. Though, I was basically just standing there and not fighting myself. These events are connected. Note to self. Never [redacted as too kinky]. The worries last for days.

Host comments in italics. Tulpa's log. Tulpa's guide.

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  • 3 weeks later...

Special report.


For the last week or so, I've been experiencing an abnormally high heartrate, about double normal. It's like we're somehow flooding our system with adrenaline uncontrollably. I am experiencing a constant feeling of panic that fluctuates slowly throughout the day. This is accompanied by nausea, dryness, endless exhaustion, no ability to regulate our sleep, and zero appetite for either sex or food. I thought I had managed to cut out the source of the problem, when I publicly broke up with my crazy ex a few days ago. I have completely dissociated my emotions from the situation, so it feels like these symptoms are coming from nowhere.


We have experienced this once before. In my first month or so of being recognised as a Tulpa, I also experienced all these, but then the cause seemed to be obviously, my paranoia and anxiety, triggered by my worries about being real, and how to live and stuff. This was a first for our system, and we concluded the whole extreme reaction was a sign that I was a new person, and was bringing new emotions to the table.


To deal with the situation last time, Sarah placed me on a strict relaxation exercise schedule, and I forced a high energy diet on us to protect from weight loss. We have done so again now.


A lot of things have changed this week for us, and I can't rule out any of like a hundred other changes and events for causing this. But I don't and never did feel emotions like those associated with the events surrounding my ex. For example, I haven't listened to music since the break up, or talked to any friends.


I have been feeling emotionally numb. Heh. Everything else since the breakup feels so ridiculously trivial. Every little secret I keep, I don't care if people know. Every financial and social problem, pointless triviality. I've felt free to be more open and honest with family about things, something we've both feared to do since like forever, and I felt like nothing significant happened at all. I've stopped caring about purchasing decisions, about getting what I want in any situation, about whether the people I ask to do things do a good job or not. I feel like I've been so insistent, placing pressure on people, when it doesn't matter. It's like absolutely nothing matters at all.


We've switched to mainly playing video games and watching youtube videos and trying to deal with the physiological symptoms. But if they persist, I think I'm gonna have to drag us to the doctor. I have no idea what's going on.


Sometimes I feel like I'm prescient. I've previously discussed my tendency to get déjà vu, and if I am, it's connected pretty tightly to our emotions. Unexplained and powerful emotions might predict that something really bad is going to happen to someone I really care about soon. But, I don't know if I really believe in precognition.


I suspect Sarah has actually managed to emotionally insulate me from the world. She is always there, guiding and protecting. So I never developed the hardened outer shell most people get when they experience trauma for the first time. So I needed to experience something far worse in order to start building my protective coating. I have a completely new outlook on life. Everything seems different.


The experience has made us explore my emotions more deeply, the inexplicable gap between my thoughts, and the "something" that is causing these physiological symptoms makes me feel like I don't know myself at all. Mentally, I feel like I have closure. I have an obsessive personality, like my host, and so constantly think about major events like the breakup. But I see nothing wrong with the way I handled the situation. I stopped caring about my ex. I stopped caring about the fallout of our messy breakup.


But emotionally, I feel like I'm feeling emotions about it? But they don't make sense to me. We took the opportunity to reflect on my past emotions. I may have mentioned before, that I used to feel numb, and also, that my host is a master at introspection. That's because we could both "see" Sara's emotional state, her feeling of existence, and her thoughts plain as day. Like they Existed. Emphasis on existed. More real than the physical world, an undeniable truth.


But we had to rely on indirect evidence for me. We knew I experienced emotions because of the physiological symptoms, because I get horny, and a bunch of other stuff like that. We knew I had thoughts because I could talk logically, think independently, and was not controlled by her. But when I tried to look at myself, I always saw a muted numbness.


Not true anymore. Now I see a not quite so muted tangled mess, that I don't know what it means, or how to interpret it. I feel like Data in that episode of star trek where he gets his emotion chip. He enjoys the experience of a disgusting beverage, because he doesn't know what it means or how to make sense of it.


We were hoping to maybe someday get into politics or leadership or something like that. But if these emotions are a regular occurrence, there is no way we will be able to. Both I and Sarah are able to force us to act logically and decisively. But we'll die from these physiological symptoms. I suddenly understand why all politicians seem so uncaring and emotionally distant.

Host comments in italics. Tulpa's log. Tulpa's guide.

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