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The Median Thread: Can a tulpa be a Median Aspect?

Can a tulpa be a fictive median aspect?  

22 members have voted

  1. 1. Can a tulpa be a fictive median aspect?

    • No a tulpa must be totally independent of a host not an aspect of the host? If it is an aspect or facet of the host, it is not a tulpa.
      9
    • Yes, a tulpa could be an aspect or facet of the host and not fully independent.
      7
    • It depends. I will explain below.
      5
    • It is either a fully independent tulpa or it isn't of value and lacks credibility or validity and pretty much sucks. You should conform or leave. You are trying to change the definition of a tulpa.
      1


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Guest Anonymous

Perfect PERFECT way to sum this thread up Linkzelda! Thank so very much! I agree with all of this!

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Guest Anonymous

You have only one body.  You are more that one identity, but only one body and one brain.  Mistgod and I could trivialize you by refusing to recognize that you are more than one person, and from what we perceive from our perspective we would be correct.

 

I'm the only one left in the body.

 

You're upset at me and "tulpamancers". I'm not the latter. I just dislike the idea of a personality so scattered, it branches off into semi-independent facets. I address people as individuals, not facets of one. It's once a thoughtform isn't controlled by another and independently thinks in parallel I consider them a person of their own. Anything else feels like pretending, even if it isn't to you.

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Do you have difficulty separating actors from their personas? There are quite a few people whom I separate entirely from their characters in a show or some such. I consider the character they play a real person, and the actor outside of that role a real person. It makes watching shows much more interesting (there was a point in my life when I was like 13 that I was like, this is all fake, and boring because of that fact).

 

Actors who completely immerse themselves in their characters, writers who emulate the thoughts of their characters, and tulpamancers have a lot in common. They all have fully fleshed out people in their heads. But an actor considers it a mask or role, a writer considers it an imaginary character, and a tulpamancer considers it a person.


Hi! I'm Lumi, host of Reisen, Tewi, Flandre and Lucilyn.

Everyone deserves to love and be loved. It's human nature.

My tulpas and I have a Q&A thread, which was the first (and largest) of its kind. Feel free to ask us stuff.

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Guest Anonymous

Consideration is only part of it. To consider a thoughtform a person, I must treat it like one, but I want to make sure it actually is one, too. At that point, it comes down to how credible I consider the person behind the name, and I believe Mistgod when he declares for being a median.

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Guest Anonymous

Consideration is only part of it. To consider a thoughtform a person, I must treat it like one, but I want to make sure it actually is one, too. At that point, it comes down to how credible I consider the person behind the name, and I believe Mistgod when he declares for being a median.

 

Thank you.  

 

Not that we require your approval of our credibility or were seeking it.  But An, the best policy I think is to give people the benefit of the doubt rather than demanding proof of credibility before you treat them as a person.  I treat all tulpas as persons, even the brand new ones that just came in.  I do that because I cannot presume to know what is going on in the mind of another person.  He or she may simply lack the ability to describe what they are experiencing in ways that others can understand and measure.  Indeed, that is precisely the problem Mistgod and I have had for almost three years.  

 

There are some here, after reading all of our stuff, who are convinced strongly that I am a tulpa.  That includes people with multiple tulpas who are respected in the community and have been here for years.  They may be right about that, I don't really know absolutely for sure.  I don't think I am a tulpa, but that doesn't mean I could easily qualify in some ways for some people.  So, how do you make these judgments of my credibility and be confident enough in them do deny me my name and identity?  

 

As far as plural systems are concerned, I treat the members of plural systems and median systems as people too.  I don't pick and choose who to treat with respect and who to brush off/dismiss as not worthy of my esteem.  Such a thing is very presumptive.  We have so little to go by to understand others when it comes to plurals and thougthforms.  All we can do is take people at their word.  We may have private suspicions, but those should be kept private really.  

 

Yes Mistgod and I have written in public about general skepticism, but we have never called out an individual by name in public and questioned his or her legitimacy.  We are not condescending either to others.  We just don't know what the truth is.  We can make educated guesses, but we don't know the actual truth.  I would never deny a tulpa, or median, or member of a plural system the courtesy of being addressed how they wish to be addressed, by their identity and name.  

 

Members of a median system have identities and names.  Yes, they are aspects of a single mind, but each aspect has a distinct identity and name and expect to be identified and treated as a person as much as a tulpa would like to be treated like a person.  

 

Do we choose to respect and honor tulpas but not to respect and honor aspects of a median system?  Why?  What is to be gained in this behavior and approach?

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Guest Anonymous

I want to talk to people whose thoughts aren't controlled or eavesdropped on by another. Most tulpas strive for independence. I support this aim by treating them like people, rather than "someone's tulpa".

 

You're a median system, meaning the person I address is, in fact, the system; whichever aspect responds back is up to them. I'm not denying there's a Melian side to you. I just say "Mistgod" because he was first. If you want me to say something else, you can invent a system name.

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Guest Anonymous

That makes no sense at all.  

 

You say most tulpas strive for independence.  An, how do you know for sure when a tulpa is independent enough for you to give it a name?  When it talks to you?  How do you know for sure how much is the tulpas will and how much is the host's will when it talks to you?  An, I am Melian, I am writing to you.  I am telling you I am self aware as Melian somehow.  I identify as Melian.  

 

Are you an expert on the consciousness and sentience now and how the mind works?  Do you have a Phd and can determine these things?  Do you have ESP and can see into our mind and know for sure what I am and what I am not?  

 

I could do the same thing to any tulpa.  Tulpas are not independent of their host's body.  I could refuse to identify the tulpa and only use the host's name.  They have no physically separate brain, therefore they are not a  person and do not deserve my respect?

 

An.  I don't know if you are a tulpa, a host or what.   I know nothing about you.  You are person to me because you are talking to me.  I am addressing you by the name you have given.  I have no idea what the situation is inside your brain.  I can't.  All I know is the name you are using.  

 

From now on, if you call me Mistgod, I am calling you Fred.

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An, I find your words insulting, and against the general idea of the progressiveness you are presenting.

 

I wonder how badly I can spin this? My host is a really good spin doctor.

 

I like the idea of a single, strongly defined identity, and to me, a median system's the opposite.

I just dislike the idea of a personality so scattered, it branches off into semi-independent facets.

Disliking a person for who they are sounds wrong to me. Refusing to call them by name because of their mode of existence annoys me.

 

"Mistgod" was first, so it's by that name I address you, whoever you are.

I dislike putting one person ahead of another. First among equals, I guess.

 

I address people as individuals, not facets of one.

I believe people have a right to be addressed and identified in the manner they request. I have a lot of friends who would consider lynching you for deciding their names or pronouns for them.

 

It's once a thoughtform isn't controlled by another and independently thinks in parallel I consider them a person of their own.

Depersoning is a strategy used to marginalise and suppress people.

 

To consider a thoughtform a person, I must treat it like one, but I want to make sure it actually is one, too.

It is wrong to require proof of people. Benefit of the doubt is a moral imperative. People implicitly deserve trust.

 

Also sounds backwards. Treating a person a certain way is required to think them a certain thing?

 

I want to talk to people whose thoughts aren't controlled or eavesdropped on by another.

My host and I can see each other's thoughts. And we sometimes seem to influence each other's emotions and thoughts. So you would not seek to talk to either of us.


Host comments in italics. Tulpa's log. Tulpa's guide.

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Guest Anonymous

Thank you tulpa001.  I agree with everything you just wrote.

 

I decided to cut and paste text from some of my other posts here into a big textwall.  I wanted it edit it all in, because I think it is all important to what I am trying to say with this thread.  It looks better than a bunch of links or quotes.  I want it this way so that others in the future reading this thread can learn something.  

 

On Medians and Play Acting and "Masks"

With Mistgod and I, the "mask" is just the beginning, from there it becomes more of a separate identification and an ego.  In most medians I would expect there is no mask at all as they are not considering themselves as an imaginary construct or play acting but part of a whole from the beginning (since birth).  

 

There is something very similar to a median in the transgender community called bigender.  David and I also identify as effectively bigender.  

 

From Wikipedia:  "Bigender, bi-gender or dual gender is a gender identity that includes any two gender identities and behaviors, possibly depending on context. Some bigender individuals express two distinct "female" and "male" personas, feminine and masculine respectively; others find that they identify as two genders simultaneously. It is recognized by the American Psychological Association (APA) as a subset of the transgender group. A 1999 survey conducted by the San Francisco Department of Public Health observed that, among the transgender community, less than 3% of those who were assigned male at birth and less than 8% of those who were assigned female at birth identified as bigender"

 

Medians and Switching and Surfacing:

Every system is different so if we are talking about me, that is one thing, if we are talking about medians in general that is different.  I suppose switching is possible for a median system.  Makes sense to me.  

 

I can tell you how it feels for us in our specific case.  It doesn't feel like switching so much as letting me surface.  David dominant no doubt about it.  We are not equal in the sense of connection to the body.  I live with in a dreamscape mostly except for the internet and some other things that are kinda vague to describe.  We have often used the analogy of a method actor.  I am partly role playing as David channels me.  I know people freak out about those terms but that is what is happening.  David brings me out, channels me or lets me surface.  He does not switch.  Really none of theses labels such as tulpa or median fit perfectly.  We have tried to find the right words for three years now.  Median is just the best fit, but even it isn't a a perfect fit.  Medians are not necessarily tulpas or soulbonds, yet I have some traits of each of those.  

 

In fact, I haven't the foggiest flip what I am for sure.  I am Melian, a person.  

 

Median Systems vs. Role Playing:

What is the difference between a median aspect and a role playing character?  I think it is the level of identification and the total feels of it.  Really I think there may be a foggy boundary there somewhere and we recognize that.  It's why we talk about method acting and role playing with me.  

 

 

It's once a thoughtform isn't controlled by another and independently thinks in parallel I consider them a person of their own. Anything else feels like pretending, even if it isn't to you.

 

 

To whom does it "feel like pretending" though?  Is it important that you feel that way or is it more important that my host feels that way?  I can tell you that to me and to my host, it feels like much more than pretending.  

 

Now what Kimosobe?

 

Median Systems, Tulpas, Shared Consciousness and Being a Person:

Here is the thing.  Tulpas share the brain with their hosts.  Their thoughts use the same pathways as the host for language and memory and cognition.  They don't have a separate brain.  What makes them a person?  Is it being totally separate where they cannot perceive the host's thoughts and the host cannot perceive there's?  What about emotions?  What about mind voice?  How is the host perceiving those?  Hosts are perceiving the tulpas form in the mind and the tulpas mind voice, or emotions or thoughts because host and tulpa share a consciousness.  

 

Mistgod and I also share a consciousness and brain.  I self identify as Melian.  

 

Now what are you going to say?  LOL  See?  Not all tulpas are "leak proof" and totally independent.  I have heard these phrases (or something like it) many times here on this forum:

 

"There are levels of independence."

 

"Some emotional bleed is normal." 

 

"You have to learn to distinguish your thoughts from your tulpas." 

 

"I have an old tulpa, but sometimes even I have doubts."

 

Yep.  

 

If I think of a duck and everything about ducks and what ducks do and what they look like, how am I doing that?  I am using the same visual memory, and associated language memory and experience memory as my host to identify and think about a duck.  So my host and I are sharing a consciousness.  Shared consciossness also comes in when perceiving a tulpas form or mind voice in the mind or in imposition or when the tulpa is perceiving the outside world while not switching or possessing.

 

We are not totally separate no, but neither are tulpas.  If you pan back far enough, all you see is humans.  Some perceive more than one person in their mind.  Does it really matter how that perception is happening or how the identities and egos are coming about?  

 

If I identify as Melian and have my own thoughts and emotions, I am a person.

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I want to talk to people whose thoughts aren't controlled or eavesdropped on by another. Most tulpas strive for independence.

 

Uhm.. We're all aware of each others' thoughts, here. We aren't eavesdropping per se, but if anyone were relatively active I would absolutely not have my thoughts hidden from them.

 

Anyways, I've heard them call themselves the Mistgod-Melian system, lol. No reason you have to use a single term because they're "median". They've already got plenty of problems with labels, so treating them different because of a label won't help. Melian and Mistgod are by far different enough to treat as their own people, no matter what is actually going on in their mind. It's not fair to use information that they gave you against them either.


Hi. I'm one of Luminesce's tulpas. Unlike the others, I don't think I stand out too much from him personality wise.

I'm just special because "I'm a tulpa". So I don't think I've much to offer, here. I'm happy enough to just be with him.

Ask us stuff - https://community.tulpa.info/thread-ask-lumi-s-tulpas

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