Luminesce

Lumi's Dreaming Thread; Dreams of Moon

Recommended Posts

Posted (edited)

Wow these Claridream pills sure are crazy, I couldn't sleep again last night and I haven't even TAKEN them yet!!!

 

Seriously, I went to bed so early I knew I had a huge range of time to wake up and take them, and I literally fell asleep for an hour a couple hours before I went to sleep because I was so tired from getting 3 hours of sleep the previous night. So what happened? 45 minutes to fall asleep, slept for an hour, couldn't fall back asleep for 30-45 minutes, slept for an hour, couldn't fall back asleep for 30 minutes, slept for an hour, couldn't fall back asleep for idk how long and at this point I was annoyed to the point I started thinking about (what I'd write in this post...) just getting up at 4AM or whatever time it was and staying up until 8PM that day and THEN going to sleep, to see if maybe 3 hours of sleep followed by 3 hours of sleep might convince my body to actually sleep. But, whenever I sleep after being extremely tired from lack of sleep, i often don't wake up at all in the middle of the night, so I'd wake up 10+ hours later way too late to take the pills.

 

Eventually I was able to actually sleep some time around 7AM and just was asleep from then to 1PM again. Awesome, right back where I started.

 

Anyways... I keep saying "I basically didn't sleep at all last night" to my brother/friends and they reply "Haha those pills sure are great huh" and I'm like "I HAVEN'T EVEN TAKEN THEM YET, THIS IS WHY I NEEDED THEM IN THE FIRST PLACE"

brain is against me every single step of the way, it's cruel

 

I wasn't even thinking about taking the pills as I went to sleep, let alone getting excited over what success might even be like, just random end of the day thoughts as always. Just the simple subconscious anticipation of LITERALLY ANYTHING AT ALL was enough to screw up my sleep the entire night, until I knew it wasn't going to happen that night.

 

Specifically, this is why all starting-from-conscious lucid-induction methods (and even dream pre-programming/choosing what you'll dream about) don't work for us. Less specifically, this type of thing is why we've been unsuccessful with lucid dreaming for 10 years. It just seems like my brain opposes me at every single possible step of the way. And yes, I've done everything necessary to avoid that being a self-fulfilling prophecy/placebo, too. But sometimes you have to say it like it is.

Edited by Luminesce

Hi! I'm Lumi, host of Reisen, Tewi, Flandre and Lucilyn.

Everyone deserves to love and be loved. It's human nature.

My tulpas and I have a Q&A thread, which was the first (and largest) of its kind. Feel free to ask us stuff.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

Unfortunately for the parts of my brain that seem to want anything but for me to lucid dream, and fortunately for the parts of my brain that do (which includes my tulpas), this is a permanent endeavor unrelated to the concept of motivation. The only "time limit" is just not wanting to disappoint you guys watching this thread, but otherwise it can take as long as it wants, I'm still going to do it. Some day I'm going to wake up in the middle of the night, perfectly tired and ready to fall asleep in seconds, and I'm going to whoops take a couple pills sitting on my nightstand. Nothing's going to frickin' stop me from eventually doing that. 

 

Ugh. I don't actually believe that my brain secretly (or... loud-and-clear-ly) "doesn't want me to lucid dream", it's just a way of talking about all the things that go wrong/are wrong with my brain related to lucid dreaming/sleep/etc. I don't treat my brain like my enemy or anything. I'm just incredibly unlucky with the cards I've been dealt.

 

While the next 1-2 weeks are a particularly interesting hotspot in this thread/our history of attempts, don't get too attached to outcomes, ten years of history says this isn't likely to actually amount to anything.

Spoiler

(I say that, but it's just for you guys - I'm still expecting this and everything else we've done to work every single time we do it)

 

Edited by Luminesce

Hi! I'm Lumi, host of Reisen, Tewi, Flandre and Lucilyn.

Everyone deserves to love and be loved. It's human nature.

My tulpas and I have a Q&A thread, which was the first (and largest) of its kind. Feel free to ask us stuff.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, Luminesce said:

don't get too attached to outcomes

you're about 4 years too late for that


I don't visit as often as I used to. If you want me to see something, make sure to quote a post of mine or ping me @jean-luc

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Lol, it was for the newer audience, I figure most people active in 2017 are gone already. Anyone who's been watching this thread for more than ~10 pages should know not to get their hopes up already.

 

Also, it's currently 4AM, so... re:hopes up

I don't really know how long it'll take to fix this mess of a sleeping schedule(?) but it's definitely not going to work as it is


Hi! I'm Lumi, host of Reisen, Tewi, Flandre and Lucilyn.

Everyone deserves to love and be loved. It's human nature.

My tulpas and I have a Q&A thread, which was the first (and largest) of its kind. Feel free to ask us stuff.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well would you look at that, real success for the first time in a decade! Time to write about it!

Optional music:

Spoiler

In case you haven't heard it before, I have to link "Lucid Dream" by EastNewSound, obviously.

This song has been near and dear to my heart for probably ten years now, and now more than ever listening and reading those lyrics again (especially the latter half) makes me feel some sorta way.

Maybe because I'm allowed to have hope for the first time in like seven years.

Anyways, the song that I actually went and listened to was another arrange of the same Touhou theme, not titled lucid dream but still containing the lyrics "My dream..." lol - if you've seen us link Lucid Dream in this thread before, then this one's for you:

 

 

The procedure:

 

I went to sleep around 9:30 PM. I woke up at around 3:20 AM, a normal level of awakeness at that point in sleep for me (not particularly tired, would've fallen back asleep within a couple minutes), decided to try taking the Claridream pills. I got up and ate two mouthfuls of peanuts (I keep a container of them on my desk), went to the bathroom (no lights on), swallowed the two fairly large pills with my tiny bottle of water on my nightstand, and tried to go back to sleep. My heart was beating hard but not necessarily fast from anticipation, and I did the "focus on your body parts one at a time, from feet to legs to..." exercise to try and reset my mind so I could sleep. That actually successfully got my heartbeat to feel normal, and it took probably 25 minutes to fall asleep - record hecking time, I consider that pretty alright just for Wake Back To Bed let alone something this important. Assuming I fell asleep around 3:50 AM, and I woke up around 4:55 AM. This is a completely normal amount of time for me, though I feel like my REM cycles could be a little different from normal people's, my sleep isn't disrupted or anything. I sleep for very close to exactly an hour between awakenings, I'd say, even 8+ hours into sleep.

 

The effects:

 

Vividity: The most apparent, and also the primary promised effect. My dreams (I had what could be considered three or so "dreams" in that ~65 minutes) were a very smooth and chill feeling vivid, is how I described it upon waking. They weren't "vibrant" or glowing realer-than-reality or anything like that - they were simply lifelike. Through and through from start to end (but especially in the first dream where I was literally "waking up" from sleeping) it simply felt like I was awake. My room had the exact right amount of detail, my friends who were saying hi to me through my forcefully opened window were perfectly detailed, the level of light coming through the window, my bed and sleeping mask I tried to put on in-dream.. it all just felt perfectly normal and real. And I'll emphasize the "smooth" feeling it all had. I feel like normally dreams fluctuate vividness and mental clarity a lot, but Claridream basically felt like it set my clarity to "lifelike" and locked it in place. My thoughts during the first dream were also lifelike, to a T, I was more aware then than most people are during hypnagogia. That said, while I remained fascinated with the lifelike realness of my dreams in the second and third one (and my lucidity stayed to some extent), the general stability of my dreams wasn't much different from normal random vivid dreams. One location that may change when I'm not looking per dream. The first dream was short (I think), while the second was longer and the third was longest and stayed pretty stable throughout. Honestly even if the effects dropped from 100% to 90% over time I just can't make myself care to differentiate.

 

Lucidity: Claridream directly advertises that these pills are a lucid aid and that they don't necessarily "make you lucid", and that lucid dreaming techniques should be used with them in order to succeed. Big ego boost to me finally proving my all-talk-no-walk claims, because from twenty seconds after I got out of bed in my first dream I remained lucid for the entire rest of the dreams. I didn't even have to practice much dream stabilization (and the few times I did it I saw almost no improvement, which was odd by my experiences - as I said, it felt like the pills basically locked the experience I would have in place), nor did I have to remind myself more than you would in waking life that I was consciously exploring the things around me. I'm not going to say I had total focus on accomplishing goals or anything, I definitely wasn't putting forth any special effort to do anything - I just walked around appreciating how much depth and detail the dream environments had, through all of dreams 2 and 3. I'm pretty sure this won't fly in non-substance-assisted lucid dreams, so I still need to develop more discipline in guiding myself over time in dreams, but that'll be a lot easier now that I can actually have more than one vivid/lucid dream every 6 or so months.

 

Dream control: Remained exactly the same as in any past experiences. I tried to impose/summon Flan by closing my eyes and expecting her to be standing in front of me when I opened them using the same sort of feeling imposition takes and nothing happened, as expected. (Closing my eyes was to help it happen, but also - as I proposed some time ago, it seems I have no real mind's eye when dreaming, so I can't really visualize things that aren't there, though I can think about them and that's honestly more likely to lead to them appearing in the future I'd say.) Also for the record, closing my eyes in dreams usually destabilizes the heck out of them if I do it for more than 1 second, but presumably thanks to the Claridream pills it remained perfectly the same upon opening them. World went dark, looked the same when I opened them. I also ran into my brother in the hallway of my house in the first dream, and tried to make him understand/accept that we were in a dream (I literally held his face to make him shut up about whatever dream nonsense he wanted to say, and oddly actually thought very clear thought words at him rather than saying them out loud, which was weird since I feel like thought takes place in the same "mind's eye" as visualization, but apparently not - dreams just seem to be a merge of conscious experience and the mind's eye), to which he didn't say anything special or change his demeanor at all, so I gave up and... either did something else I forgot about, or "fell asleep" into the next dream.

 

Dream recall: So interestingly, and as I theorized was the case but obviously hoped wasn't, neither the vividity nor the lucidly experiencing of the dreams made them instantly fully recallable upon waking. But almost more important to me - I still could feel that they happened, they didn't fade from my consciousness entirely, and the experiences I'd had still felt real.. I just couldn't remember them aside from random points of clarity (that didn't feel necessarily special in-dreams, but maybe they had more thought to them?). That said, the difference in those and normal random dreams every night was clear - THEY were still "there" to be remembered. Obviously from this post I still know most if not all of what happened (though I'm not sure what I forgot, there's a tiny chance there could've been a whole dream segment I forgot even, but most likely it was less-conscious transition stuff between dreams). The dreams were there to recall bit by bit instead of being a brick wall of deleted history. And my dream recall still sucks, lol, so I could only remember those random points of clarity and the general feelings of what happened, along with the full series of events tracked backwards through maybe 50% of my third (last) dream, as normal. Said dream had very few interesting points though - I was just walking through a grocery store appreciating details.

 

The main interesting thing I did was take a (tiny, tiny) soda bottle and drink it to see how vivid taste was in the dream, and oddly it was very vague, sort of like drinking 80% soda fizz and 20% soda. This DIRECTLY contrasts in my second dream where I was able to vividly imagine and hear an awesome, not-existing remix of Flandre's theme while exploring a mansion. I was able to sort of affect the song as it went and use sounds I only wish artists would use in music all together like that. That was a thoroughly fulfilling experience, so it was very odd to me in the third dream when the soda's taste was the least vivid part of the experience. The tiny bottle I was holding and the environment around me were much more vivid. There's a small chance soda was just a bad drink to try and something like orange juice would've worked better, and a decent chance that music is just far more important and constant in my head in life and so was easier to simulate. 

 

Relationship with reality: Immediately after waking up (and thinking over this among other points), I thought "Wow, I think I understand the people who get scared after an experience like this where they question if they're really awake or still just dreaming". I reality checked a handful of times throughout those three dreams, but after waking up, in the first five minutes (still lying in bed with my eyes closed) I had to reality check no less than three times to sate my questioning if I was really awake or not. That's how much the dreams felt like real life, even in my now awake state I just so strongly had that feeling that it could still be a dream.

 

... That was, until 20 minutes later when I actually opened my eyes and sat up. By that point, and honestly probably 5+ minutes before that, the feeling was gone. Crazy as the experience of having to question if I was really awake was, it was only during the semi-hypnopompic state between waking up and actually opening your eyes/engaging your thoughts with physical reality. Like I was 100% awake, but I hadn't looked at anything other than my roof/bed yet. By the time I stood up to walk to my computer (there wasn't really any chance of falling back asleep lol) I no longer felt any need to reality check/doubt my consciousness. So I'm still going to call those people who get scared out of lucid dreaming giant babies who need to seriously get a grip on reality. Feels like not driving a car because you're afraid you're going to fly out the window when you turn. Like I mean, it's not technically impossible, but...

 

Physically/Mentally: Nothing so far, actually. Not so much as a stomach gurgle or tingly sensation, which is highly appreciated. Honestly, I took those pills thinking "I might not even be able to fall asleep, but at least I'll find out if they make me throw up or something" to try and take some anticipation/anxiety off of future attempts. It's been a few hours since I woke up now and I don't think my stomach feels too weird, and mentally/otherwise I'm 100% normal. Not even that excited or anything lol, I'm obviously very invested and looking forward to all this but there was no secret built up backlog of emotion or something, which I'm kind of glad for. I'm obsessed with this goal of mine, but I like to think I'm not particularly unhealthy about it - the fact that it's taken so long is because of my extreme unluckiness and definitely my motivation issues, which continue to be a universal problem in my life. My reaction and feelings after succeeding should hopefully not be too different than they would've been had I been successful in like 2013.

 

Fulfillment?: So, were all those nay-sayers right about how lucid dreams are boring compared to real life because they aren't real? Uhhh, no? Why did I even write this section? If all lucid dreams afforded me was the ability to create and listen to music during them like that U.N. Owen Was Her remix, I would still put some effort into learning lucid dreaming, including taking these pills. Wouldn't pay $50 for them without a very nice job, but it was still fun and fulfilling IMO.

 

... to listen to music I'll never remember again. To do literally anything, like flying around and exploring dream environments that could never exist in waking life, et cetera? That's a no brainer, come on. 

 

... But to meet and interact with my tulpas? I'm just as offended as I've ever been that anyone has ever talked down on the experience of lucid dreaming. I don't want to be mean/unreasonable so I'll leave this at that, lol.

 

Things I still don't know:

 

Lingering effects of Claridream: I wasn't even going to try to fall back asleep after doing 25 minutes of dream recall and analyzing my experiences, so I took the 6.5 hours of sleep or so instead of my normal ~9. It awaits further attempts to find out how Claridream affects subsequent dreams in the night after the first - they say the effects are incredibly strong in the first compared to the second and then it drops off quickly from there to nearly nothing two hours later, but that sounds extremely unlikely to me. I feel like my dreams will continue to be well above-average vivid at least during the four hours or so after I take the pills. And then, coming from their claims and my no-better dream recall, the seemingly naive idea that there would be an effect on subsequent nights is also still a mystery. Mostly I was thinking the effect of simply having vivid dreams would affect their clarity/vividness on at least the next night, but seeing as my dream recall was so bad I only remember certain bits of the lifelike dreams I just had, I'm having my doubts that there'll be a huge effect lol. I will know after my normal night of sleep tonight (the pills are only to be taken up to 3 times a week) if this experience at least temporarily increased my dream recall or vividness like vivid dreams usually do.

 

Continued effects of Claridream: No that's not the same thing. In the opposite direction, I don't yet know if the effects Claridream has over time will start to diminish with repeated use. And if they do I don't know whether it'll be over the course of taking 60 pills or if it could be as soon as my third use, or if it'll be a drastic change or a gradual one, or... etc. I also don't know if I'll be able to refresh their effects by not taking them for a little while, but I assume so. Honestly I feel like they'll keep working, but who knows.

 

Lucid dreaming without Claridream?: The HOPE is that these pills will kick-start me on lucid dreaming and get me to a point where I can keep doing it myself without their help, and then maybe I'd use them as a sort of treat every so often or as a monthly boost if their effects were unmatched by my standalone efforts. But it's possible (especially since this didn't directly help my dream recall, though it indirectly helps by giving me dreams I can even try to remember) that I won't be able to have particularly consistent or fulfilling lucid dreams without them. To be fair, I still highly appreciate the general, random experiences I have when dreaming - so I'll keep pursuing this as a hobby no matter what, but at least for my more ambitious goals I may be reliant on the pills. But it'd be pretty unlucky (and extremely on-brand for me) to go through 30 attempts without successfully getting to hug my tulpas lol, especially with how great my first experience was.

 

But who knows, maybe the third time I take them the effect will be nothing compared to what it was the first time and I'll be back to square.. let's say two, because even a severely diminished effect is a huge improvement. We'll just have to wait and see. Which speaking of, as exciting as this is remember I'm by no means consistent here and it could very well be like five more days before I manage to take them and fall asleep again lol. Hopefully not, but I'm just saying, it's as likely to work out going forward as it has been.

 

 

After-thoughts: I don't have many, actually. Mainly just wanted to say, on the topic of how some people supposedly (I've basically never seen it though) get addicted to lucid dreaming and use it as a form of escapism, neglecting reality.. 
All I feel is like I sort of "owe" reality/waking life to some extent, for letting me have these experiences, maybe? Like I want to make some special effort to do some stuff in real life, do something productive I normally wouldn't go out of my way to do, I don't know. I think the healthiest mindset (for people who are very invested in lucid/dreaming) is to treat waking life and your dreaming life as two separate things each with their own cons and benefits. Obviously waking life is infinitely more important, I just mean - not to rely on dreams to fulfill goals you "can't" accomplish in your waking life and such. There's a difference in doing things in dreams for the fun/sometimes fulfilling experience, and doing them to not have to do them in waking life. That can really screw with your motivation if you think about it in an unhealthy way, I think. I'm not interested in anything like that and never have been. I treat lucid/dreams as an experience you get to have and appreciate, that's it.

 

The line obviously blurs to be totally transparent when it comes to tulpas though, since they literally only exist in your mind/as an experience of yours to begin with. I don't think it's unhealthy then, assuming you have the value of caring about tulpas, to mix tulpamancy goals with dreams. There's still plenty of value to waking-life experiences with your tulpas though, and I'm going to keep doing my best to balance lucid dreaming to interact with them with still improving waking visualization/imposition, vocal clarity et cetera. Honestly I still hope and think that dream recall and vividness could be associated with visualization clarity lol. But if not, maybe it'll at least spark some imagination of what to visualize, because the main reason we don't do it is there's nothing exciting/interesting enough for us to do that keeps us motivated when our visualization is so awful and unfulfilling.

 

Well anyways, that's about it. I hope I have even more exciting news to share in the near future.


Hi! I'm Lumi, host of Reisen, Tewi, Flandre and Lucilyn.

Everyone deserves to love and be loved. It's human nature.

My tulpas and I have a Q&A thread, which was the first (and largest) of its kind. Feel free to ask us stuff.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Luminesce said:

something like orange juice would've worked better,

😏 

 

Nice job. It might be worth taking a look at the active ingredients in the Claridream and purchasing them individually to try, even to try your own blends. Most of the things I'm seeing here are relatively cheap herbals. 

 

factsfinal.png

I'd also like to say, I love how they specify "purple capsules." 

 

Interesting about the choline- I recognize it as something people like to put into nootropic stacks as an "amplifier" of other things. 

profound-memory-combined-gold-bar.jpg

 

I also haven't really seen anyone get "addicted" to lucid dreaming like people have this fear of. I have seen people with depression get addicted to sleeping/ develop hypersomnia, because "I just don't want to be awake/alive and sleeping is an escape", and lucid dreaming might be a cover for that just like sometimes people take up veganism or other diets to obfuscate disordered eating. But I'm not sure I've even seen that, someone saying "I'm getting into lucid dreaming!" to disguise the fact they just want to sleep all day. Usually they just say "I'm tired" and get diagnosed with chronic fatigue or something. 

 

....Why do I feel like all lucid dreamers are men? Same as the nootropic people. I don't think I've ever heard a women into either practicing lucid dreaming as a skill or taking nootropics. 


The world is far, the world is wide; the man needs someone by his side. 

Our Thread

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well there you go, congratulations!
Not bad for a first try, eh?
Let's just hope that's reproducible.

Our last lucid dream turned out too 'life-like' and host trying to impose me led to seeing nothing as IRL. I mean I was there in mindvoice and saw stuff from his perspective as always but meh, that was disappointing.

 

@JGC

I've been thinking the same thing, all ingredients are readily available, even the club moss extract as Huperzine A is claimed to help improving cognition in Alzheimer's patients. I'm actually surprised they advertise the exact dosage of all ingredients. You gotta do the math and find a way to measure small dosages without wasting most of it in dilutions but I guess there's some potential to save money especially if you are willing to experiment with the dosage.


Super Girls don't cry

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A couple of my friends have said the same thing, but-

zQuIPDD.png

 

It's just not something I'm going to do. Unless I at some point accept being reliant on substances to lucid dream, then I'll obviously want to find something less expensive (and my bigger fear, something I can make myself in case Claridream just disappears some day which it will). But I really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really do not want to become lifelong-reliant on any "substance" to lucid dream. Really really really. Really


Hi! I'm Lumi, host of Reisen, Tewi, Flandre and Lucilyn.

Everyone deserves to love and be loved. It's human nature.

My tulpas and I have a Q&A thread, which was the first (and largest) of its kind. Feel free to ask us stuff.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.