Jump to content

We don't understand you


Floh

Recommended Posts

Why are you/we unable to discuss anything without being caustic and agressive ?

 

I actually don't think this is the issue. If anything, I'm used to seeing a usualy set of posters here who, essentially, agree with each other on some level and seem to argue mainly because they like to argue. To them, there's no actual aggression, it's normal.

 

Now, if you don't actually like arguing at all and just want to share things, it may chaffe a bit more when you see a thread turn in to another debate. Not because the debate is actually really heated, but because you don't feel like arguing and don't want to be in any sort of ideological tug-o-war, no matter how civil it actually is. That happens sometimes, I know I'm like that, so I usually avoid arguments. This also dictates that I don't post much, but as you can see from my post count, I never really posted too much anyway.

 

Though, and I say this personally: My bigger reason for not participating is because I feel the arguments have become largely repetative, about generally the same set of things, with similar sets of answers. I don't like sentience discussion because they so often come to the same conclusions, and I don't want to expend the mental effort to talk about it. I'm more the type to try and do things hands on, and feel words can actually cloud the truth of the matter when relied on too much. In fact, I know there were a few times when I felt that I really didn't care what the "truth" was, and at that point I knew I had to tap out. What's the point of a discussion if not to come to some sort of clarity about a subject or enjoyment of it? If I find the discussion so boring that I don't care if the person speaking is speaking the truth, that just means I need to take a break and do something else.

 

I tend to gravitate more to practical "what's life like with a tulpa" stuff. It's just my usual preference, so I'm often absent when I feel things are turning back to "Are tulpas REALLY REAL?!?!?!". Believe you me: skepticism was common both before and after the advent of Mistgod. Don't believe the hype.

Sock Cottonwell's

Sketchbook, Journal, and Ask thread.

Peace

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 72
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Guest Anonymous

I mean I don't understand that subject at all myself, not only does it not make sense but it also doesn't mean anything. Plain and simple, you either feel like and believe you are talking to someone else, or you don't. There's no sentience or unconscious puppetting...

 

if i say it enough the spoon will disappear

 

 

 

Exactly!  THAT should have been the founding principle.

 

Believe you me: skepticism was common both before and after the advent of Mistgod. Don't believe the hype.

 

It's not even complete skepticism (although I toyed with some of that as a way of measuring the strength of the claims of the community).  I do believe strongly in tulpamancy or I would not have been here every day for a year and a half.  But you are right, I am not the first or the only skeptic or contrary point of view by a long shot.  I am just one of the most obnoxious and loud.

 

 

People were too afraid to be talking to themselves and couldn't take their tulpas seriously. So even though there's that, it's still kinda better than everyone living in total doubt. With the assumed sentience in general safety net people can think more about the actual "sentience" nature of their tulpas without feeling like one wrong thought and their tulpas are fake. Maybe?

 

 

I guess I do get that some feel their own imagination is worthless and fake. I find that to be tragic actually. Just recently we saw someone coming back to the forum who lost "faith" in two very successful, functional tulpas and so abandoned them. That is so sad! Why were they suddenly worthless when they were exciting and amazing before? I don't understand this realness qualifier being so critical.

 

If you are having a profound experience and it is moving and exciting, who cares if it is your imagination or not? I JUST DON'T UNDERSTAND THAT! UGH! We watch movies and read books and are moved by them. They can even change lives. Fictional stories and fictional characters can really matter.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I give you a look of disapproval for those words.

 

Time to be completely serious.

 

By which maybe you mean that everyone must agree with the tulpa's are independently sentient consensus in order for it to be a happy, friendly and pleasant forum for tulpas?  

No. It's not what you say, it's how you say it.

 

I have no idea what you are talking about contributing to a problem and "eroding support" for the community or damaging its members.  What two wrongs?

Beating up people with words is wrong. It's not what you say, it's how you say it.

 

That sounds like religion talk to me.  What problem?  You mean the problem of being an individual thinker?

It is not. The problem lies not in what you believe, but how you express it.

 

I simply don't believe what you believe and see things differently than you do about the nature of tulpas.

This is not the problem. It is not what you believe, but how you expres it.

 

I don't see my views as a problem at all.  You do, but I don't.

Incorrect. It's not what you say, it's how you say it.

 

In fact, I have stated many times that I thought it was a huge mistake for the community to emphasize tulpa sentience.

How many times do I have to agree with you on this point before we stop fighting over it?

 

Tulpas as illusory figments may be the minority view on Tulpa Info, but I am  hardly the only one who thinks this way.

You know, I bet I could show you a spoon, and you would not believe it to exist for some reason. Seriously, there is a difference between healthy scepticism and implicitly calling a person a liar because your theory cannot stand with their testimony.

 

Oh yeah, and you are thinking of softening this by simply calling my host "delusional". That is so much nicer.

 

Maybe, if you stopped saying all tulpas are illusory and instead said most tulpas are illusory? Otherwise, you are wrong, or my evidence is falsified.

 

Seriously, Didn't I just say yesterday that I thought most tulpas never achieve proper sentience? I am going along with your theory that most tulpas are illusory. Why can't you see this?

 


 

Sorry. We now return to your regularly scheduled thread.

Host comments in italics. Tulpa's log. Tulpa's guide.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest Anonymous

How many times do I have to agree with you on this point before we stop fighting over it?

 

Well okay.  Good then.  Issues solved.  Sentience isn't the guiding principle of tulpamancy.  Making functional tulpas is.  

 

See folks?  A debate on the forum and nobody died.  

 

I did eat some ice cream that I shouldn't have during the exchange.

 

Maybe, if you stopped saying all tulpas are illusory and instead said most tulpas are illusory? Otherwise, you are wrong, or my evidence is falsified.

 

Well, it's got to be one or the other doesn't it?  At least you are happy and that is really all that matters.  

 

Seriously, Didn't I just say yesterday that I thought most tulpas never achieve proper sentience? I am going along with your theory that most tulpas are illusory. Why can't you see this?

 

I see that you still think that sentience is the only thing that can be "proper."  ?  Maybe I should say that not all tulpamancers make the proper realization that their tulpa is an illusion?  After all that is what the Tibetan monks were supposed to come to realize.

 

From Wikipedia:  As the Tibetan use of the tulpa concept is described in the book Magical Use of Thoughtforms, the student was expected to come to the understanding that the tulpa was just a hallucination. While they were told that the tulpa was a genuine deity, "The pupil who accepted this was deemed a failure – and set off to spend the rest of his life in an uncomfortable hallucination."

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well, it's got to be one or the other doesn't it?

 

No, it doesn't have to be one or the other. YOU have decided that there is objective truth, and as long as you believe this.... you will search for it, even subconsciously.

You have chosen to accept a binary system of true or false. There is another choice: to eschew the worship of logic and embrace contradiction (in all its chaotic glory).

The beautiful thing about contradiction is: you can still believe in logic! jjjoooinnnn usss........ JOIIIN USSSSSS!!!

 

Edit: Actually, now that I think about it... from a contradictory point of view... you already have joined us.

So... uhm... carry on.

"For small creatures such as we the vastness is bearable only through love." - Carl Sagan

Host: SubCon | Tulpas: Sol, Luna, Alice, Little One, Beast and Solune (me) | Servitors: Odonata, Guardian

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Floh

 

I am inclined to agree that it is the responsibility of the users to improve the community. Despite the exodus of members who discovered tulpa.info from places like 4chan, there is now an influx of persons from other cesspools like Tumblr and Reddit - and with some of these members, the poisonous views and habits these web-sites condone are brought as well. Thus far there appears to be a kind of restraint concerning this behaviour, yet I also observe subtle instances of cringe that is reminiscent of such places.

 

I do apologise if I employ fancy or complicated wording in my posts. If there's anything you require clarification for, please let me know and I'll re-phrase it.

I've seen good people bleed

And I thought I'd seen it all

But my own two eyes would prove me wrong that day.

 

There are things that I've done

Only seen by the sun

And those things will be buried in my grave.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I do apologise if I employ fancy or complicated wording in my posts. If there's anything you require clarification for, please let me know and I'll re-phrase it.

 

You shouldn't. Having this ability is a strength. Who am I to make you apologise for being cultivated ?

Well, I usually just ask my friend Google ;)  What I meant was that reading your posts asks much more time from me than most others, but it's fine :D

 

I am inclined to agree that it is the responsibility of the users to improve the community. Despite the exodus of members who discovered tulpa.info from places like 4chan, there is now an influx of persons from other cesspools like Tumblr and Reddit - and with some of these members, the poisonous views and habits these web-sites condone are brought as well. Thus far there appears to be a kind of restraint concerning this behaviour, yet I also observe subtle instances of cringe that is reminiscent of such places.

Yeah well, reading the rest of this thread, it looks like people aren't bothered by this at all... I think I'm just too weak and fragile huehuehue

No animosity intended ever 

 

Cora now has her own account ! :D

 

English isn't our native language, please be indulgent :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest Anonymous

...there is now an influx of persons from other cesspools like Tumblr and Reddit - and with some of these members, the poisonous views and habits these web-sites condone are brought as well.

 

Dum, dum, dum, "poisonous views!"  It is an invasion I tell you!  The purity of tulpamancy practice and the hallowed halls of Tulpa Info have been infiltrated by some of unsavory nature.  They don't always believe the dogma and mythology of the Holy Guides and the hippy nerd founders!  They think and have their own ideas.  The irreverence to TULPA SENTIENCE is so frightening.  What we need is Nazi like hard core rules and moderators to eject those who don't think right and have the wrong views.  

 

The solution is not to whine about other members or an infiltration from Tumblr or Reddit, which is a total paranoid fantasy by the way, but to make some threads and inspire your own conversations.  If you don't like the current conversations and subjects being discussed then actively change the direction of the forum by being a contributor not just a complainer.  

 

Members should be encouraged to be open minded and not defensive about one line of thinking.  There is  more than one way to create a tulpa and more than one idea on how they function.  It should not be a threat to you, or your tulpa, or an insult, when it becomes apparent there there are indeed members who do not believe tulpas are independent sentient entities in the brain.  These members have always been here since the very beginning and have created tulpas that function just fine despite being thought of as an illusory figment in the mind.  

 

We live in a world of various beliefs and world views.  Some people are religious and believe in the immortal soul, the existence of good and evil, and the Will of God.  Others are atheists and skeptics and believe in moral plurality, that there is no reason or point in the universe existing, and that humans are nothing more than a collection of atoms.  Shall one group expel the other?  Should we pass thought control laws and laws against freedom of speech?  Some of the views of one group may be seen as "poisionous views."  

 

There is nothing poisonous in having a tulpa or thoughtform and openly expressing, or even advocating, an opinion that tulpas are not really independently sentient entities but only apparently so.  There is nothing poisonous in pointing out the flaws in the community.  There is nothing poisonous in pointing out that some aspects of tulpamancy seem like a pseudo-science and pseudo-religion.  The fact that some think IDEAS themselves can be poisonous is very zealously religious in nature to me and only supports my position on that.  

 

Tulpa Info's home page suggests that this forum is a scientific discussion forum.  Scientific dialogue often includes challenging and critiquing currently standing theories on the nature of the universe.  It involved competing ideas.  Sometimes the discourse gets a little heated.  Scientists can be irreverent to the beliefs of other scientists and even openly scoff at them.  Sometimes they are right to be irreverent and scoff.  Sometimes they are wrong.  But that is how science works.  Competing hypothesis, competing theories, dialogue, experimentation and discourse.  

 

You know why I am constantly irreverent and "caustic?"  It is because of this prevailing one sided view of things and pressure to conform to it.  It is because of the subtle smugness and elitism of some of those who have apparently in their minds achieved "proper sentience" or a certain "level of sentience" in a tulpa.  I don't believe there is such a thing unless you are talking about apparent sentience.  I have been told more than once in the IRC chat that my Melian "does not exist" simply because I don't strut around talking about her independent sentient mind.  Oh she exists alright!      

 

If we are going to learn anything new about tulpas, we can't have pervasive thought control. We need vigorous debate, vibrant discussion, alternative views and new directions and techniques and approaches.  The guides are not sacred texts.  They need to be updated as time goes on to reflect what tulpamancers learn.  Maybe assuming sentience from the start is the right technique for most tulpamancers, but we have seen some who fail later on because of a loss of faith or doubt.  I mean they had functional tulpas, but lost faith and the tulpas promptly faded.  We have just seen that recently. link So maybe it is a great technique for one person, but a flawed technique for someone else of a different mental outlook.  

 

Not everyone needs to believe in tulpa sentience.  Guys it's okay.

 

EDIT:  One caveat to what I wrote above.  Melian is constantly pointing out that I treat her as a person and talk about her as if she was a  person.  Also, she points out that I chat with tulpas as if they are independent persons.  She insists that happens because, deep down, I recognize that they are indeed real people.  <--for Melian

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...