Sign in to follow this  
adaptivesystems

[redacted]

Recommended Posts

Guest Anonymous

Eat some ice cream with her. Make sure it has candy sprinkles. What a story!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, what sounds healthy? Do you really expect an answer in the form "Just do this"? Picture the most optimal scenario and work towards it. It's really up to you, not us. Does your intentional tulpa have anything to offer advice-wise? If you want a normal/healthy relationship, then start with that. You can't change the past, but you can always change the future. You can create a new past in your present. Define your desired outcome, and then do your best to reach it. I suppose she'd go along with whatever you planned since she doesn't seem likely to have her own opinion.

 

Of course, if she did, that would absolutely be the place to start. But if you're in a better place to decide, then it's up to you.


Hi! I'm Lumi, host of Reisen, Tewi, Flandre and Lucilyn.

Everyone deserves to love and be loved. It's human nature.

My tulpas and I have a Q&A thread, which was the first (and largest) of its kind. Feel free to ask us stuff.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The more I see these threads with people with a few posts, or anything that cries controversy, the more I treat the scenarios as thought experiments.

 

Anyway, you developed experiential context with her in relation to a fascination and affection through a combination of books, tropes, and other forms of media and entertainment….and then some. When you have a sustained series of thoughts that you consistently want to be proven true to you in your inner reality, especially in relation to treating a tulpa as sentient, then it seems natural to see the accidental tulpa as ‘affection incarnate.’

 

Combined with your anecdotes of seeking spiritual guidance, and coming to terms with self-actualization, I wouldn’t think it’s uncommon to have a deep emotional attachment with them, even to the point of sexual connotations. So while you seem to be troubled, did you ever think that maybe to her, you seem to be the only individual that she can be sure can acknowledge her presumed existence? That’s why this gets personal, and that’s why it probably makes you cringe sometimes because even if you seek outward help through this forum, we cannot teach you how to become an ordinary person again with her.

 

Some people cannot have any sexual attraction to someone else unless there’s some deep emotional rooting to it. And for a tulpa, if they’re presumably sharing the confines of what goes on in your mind, maybe the experiences you had with them seemed like the only viable context to derive from in your mind. If someone were to give you guidance, closure, and other human sentiment, it’s not like you can erase your feelings just like that. Instead of trying to imagine a reversal time switch to make it all go away, create more experiential context with them that may be more platonic. Or, you could maybe realize that the same rooting of love with sexual connotations, romanticism, and such will every now and then seem like an alien barrage of awkwardness, but it will eventually pass. The only way it becomes troublesome is if you perpetuate it in being so.

 

As for the Jungian reflection, I think people tend to have a reaction to chalk it up as such because it’s (Jungian stuff, not your scenario) really just a combination of perverted and deep rooted psychological context when you think about it. And the funny thing, I also think people would feel there’s some heavy Freud context as well, because even when things seem non-sequential in relation to Freud, it fits into his system. But this post didn’t really help you because the only way to create experiences that trump over the ones you want to move away from is to actually go through cultivating something different.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't know who Elliot Rogers it.

 

I also personally know that accidentally creating a tulpa for sex does not always lead to anxiety. Unless you count massive anxiety about maybe not being real.

 

Okay, start by not beating yourself up so much. It sounds like you subscribe to the tulpas come from the subconscious theory. If she has issues, you have issues. See a therapist, or find other ways to work through your issues.

 

Also, let her talk here, or on the chat. If she needs people, give her people.


Host comments in italics. Tulpa's log. Tulpa's guide.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hey look. Self-depreciating humor. I know something about that. Laying it on thick, too. You must be really uncomfortable about this.

 

Okay, so I know a thing or two about being created for a purpose that has nothing to do with being a tulpa. Granted, my original purpose didn't involve my private parts touching my host's, so your tulpa has one up on me there.

 

I also know what it's like to be saddled with experiences that are, in a word, traumatic. It sounds like your tulpa has memories in a back-loaded, soulbondy way, and those are rarely fun to deal with, but they're part of our personality, so they have to be dealt with nonetheless.

 

So... how do you deal with all that stuff?

 

In short: accept that they happened and then move on. Obviously, it's easier said than done, but there is a certain part of gaining awareness before the host realizes it that makes neither of you accountable for your actions during that time period. You didn't know she was self-aware, right? And if you didn't know, she probably didn't either. If you don't have tulpas, the brain is considered a safe, private space. Neither of you are accountable for what happened when you still thought you were alone in there. So, you both have to figure out how to deal with that. Like I said, my system goes with the "accept it happened, and move on approach." Because there's nothing you can do the change it, and beating yourself up about it only makes things more awkward for everyone.

 

As for lack of self-determination? Can't say I've ever had that particular problem. But maybe try encouraging her toward independence in steps. Start with inconsequential things: have her pick what flavor of ice cream you eat, or which shirt you wear that day. Little things to get her confidence up.

 

And, if you really need to, look into how people usually get these sorts of things treated. Pick up some books about dealing with trauma and/or learning to assert yourself in a codependent relationship (yeah, ironic, given the nature of a tulpa), though be careful about ones that might demonize you, because that's just going to make things worse. Or, have her journal her thoughts to help work through them. There are plenty of ways to pursue this.

 

But it starts with you, in particular, not obsessing over what happened. You can't help her if you're focused on how awkward you feel about what happened. So, to repeat for a third time: accept that it happened and then move on. You'll both be a lot healthier if you can figure out how to do that.


~ Member of SparrowNR's System ~

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I never want her to suffer, I feel like I'm over-protective of her to my own detriment. And she's aware of this problem I have, where I keep asking her if she's OK, I keep obsessively trying to coddle her and make her feel OK, but in reality I'm the one who's fucked up and needs help... I've never really learned how to ask for help, nor accept it.

 

This is something shaky for me to respond to because it might raise a few eyebrows. I don’t think you have to make it your fault because some people never really thought it would go that far that somehow, their mind would be instantiating some impression of an ‘other’ in their head. When you find someone you can create to be part of a pursuit in meaning things related to human sentiment, it only seems natural to try to chalk them up as many things, and sublimating all sorts of desires and affections at them because it’s all within your cognition, and the morality is different compared to one-on-one interaction with other people outside of your mind.

 

Feeling ashamed is analogous to feeling like you raped somebody, or something like that when you probably just let your emotions go to the extreme, and you just couldn’t reconcile and reign them in to foster whatever relationship you felt you two should’ve had. If this is the type of thing that’s making you foam in your mouth, there can be alternatives in mapping out your urges that’ll make you feel less likely to have a pity party. I’m not saying this to demean you, so what you could consider would be to imagine yourself engaging in whatever pursuits with dream characters instead. Of course, I’m sure you’ll feel that nagging feeling in the back of your mind on how you treat them, but I think dreams can be a way for anyone to develop their own moral compass, or to just let it be that type of thing where ‘what happens in Vegas, stays in Vegas.’

 

I say this with an impression of neither condemning nor condoning your actions because like you, Linkzelda would categorize certain dream characters and thoughtforms in the past as some kind of role (e.g. what you mentioned with traditional human relationships and archetypes). But you quickly learn that chalking these thougth-forms in varying labels isn’t enough to fit into your system. It can fit into your system, but it isn’t sufficient enough. Because you’re not used to chalking yourself up as an alien barrage of archetypes. You’re used to identifying yourself as you along with your experiences, memories, and other factors like your physicality and emotions.

 

Treating someone else in your mind as an ‘other’ will feel weird, and sublimating feelings catered to intimacy can even make you more gloomy, but you have to understand that the mind structures others as sentient as well, and categorizes them in some way. If there’s going to be cognitive processing of how the mind assumes others as sentient (outside of your mind), I’m sure those same mechanisms would be applied in pursuits with tulpas. Of course, there’s going to be a different context, and the standards will change along with the probabilities of double standards.

 

And speaking of double standards, let me back track to what I stated with dream characters and tulpas. While people create their moral compass of assessing themselves with tulpas, they tend to undermine dream characters as well. Maybe because they know the moment they wake up, they’re nothing more than a fading memory, and any novelty of them is dependent on how much they want to cling onto those memories of them, and even urges to sustain those experiences to have a future with them within their dreams. The pursuit is kind of similar with tulpas, albeit the pursuit seems to be more on waking life endeavors. But this isn’t to say it’s solely contingent in waking life as some people tend to fluctuate with their dreams in relation to tulpas as well.

 

And the reason why I’m even bothering to tell you this, and why I went on a tangent is that instead of feeling you defiled her, or destroyed whatever integrity you had, understand that it’s just a part of who you are, and how your mind models these things. Instead of trying to re-frame the system from the ground up, almost as if you’re changing your cognition with a blink of an eye, understand you can at least change how you react so that said system creates a different perception for you. In other words, it’s really about perspective, but at the same time, this sense of liberation, and how morality becomes questionable, and there probably aren’t absolute, inherent morals to abide to is what scares people. This is the part is where going deeper down the rabbit hole comes in, but don’t feel bad about it for too long.

 

It’s how you frame your mind towards the events in the past; as if she was some kind of rape victim that succumbed to your every desire, and you truly feel she suffered, as if you had absolute knowledge and awareness that she was sentient then. Whatever benchmark you create for that is something for you to revel in on your own, but just know that worrying you have is because you cling onto context of circumstances of people who were victims of abuse. But you know at the same time, these archetypes aren’t sufficient enough to fit into one’s system over what tulpas mean compared to interpersonal relationships with other humans.

 

It’s deeper than these human sentiment with archetypes, and what have you because self-progression is what’s defining you, and her as well. An analogy I would use to describe this is that the same relationship archetypes one would use for others (e.g., protégé, spouse, etc.) are vessels for expressing certain emotions and human sentiment. This categorizing and sublimation can be applied to yourself, but when the self-referential mirroring turns on, you feel undermined, at least some may feel this way. This is maybe because one has a frame of mind of this sublimation being contingent solely on others. In other words, being applied to others more than being applied to yourself, or and other impression of an ‘other’ in your mind.

 

This is why I mention that becoming an ‘ordinary’ person is probably your best bet. This isn’t about having a precise 1:1 connection over what it means to be an ‘ordinary’ person, and trying to instantiate this reality with your inner reality tit for tat. This is learning to understand that this is how your mind works; the whole assumption of it treating people as an ‘other.’ With tulpas, and with treating them as sentient, that same mirroring you do to others is probably no exception for tulpas. Figuring out what it means to be ‘ordinary’’ is going to have varied criterion, and this is why I’m kind of vague in the first place over what it means. Because even if I give you my own criterion, or his own, or a collective criterion, it’s only one impression. But it’s what we know, and what we can rely on; maybe it’s all that we can know, and even with societal connections of other people’s criterion of this and that, we have to come to terms in reigning in our own along with the tulpa/host.

 

Maybe this is our way of taking ownership of ourselves, and learning what it means to be an ordinary person. Maybe this pursuit is one’s way of seeking closure. Some may feel it’s a bad thing, or selfish and narcissistic, but ironically, all that sentiment gets mirrored back to the person either way; they just let the words ‘selfish’ and such affect them, and paralyze their own intellect in even being bothered to do anything.

 

Linkzelda made a thread on something like this here, if you want to go into more detail, or read other people’s responses to it:

 

https://community.tulpa.info/thread-existential-heroism-tulpas

 

Not sure if it’ll help, but it may put things into perspective for you. And you may realize you’re not really a piss-poor asshat who doesn’t give two shits about another person; you’re just being REALLY hard on yourself. But perhaps this complex is what keeps someone human, and not a savage, I guess.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think it is interesting how you two have different attitudes about sex. Yours is what is called a sex negative perspective, and hers is what is called a sex positive perspective.

 

Our personal perspective, sex is about as meaningful and significant as rubbing two physical objects together. Any two physical objects. The emotions it induces, however, and the flood of chemicals that flood your body are quite enjoyable.

 

Yes, there are many other ways to have a deep relationship--as was covered reasonably thoroughly, if not in detail, in the other thread you started in this subforum.

 

Although, uh, have you tried backrubs, headrubs and shoulder rubs? This requires one active participant and one passive participant, so you can do something else.

 

Why not let her do all the work? Invite her to watch whatever it is you are doing, and let her comment at will.


Host comments in italics. Tulpa's log. Tulpa's guide.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.