alda

To tulpa or not to tulpa, that is the question...

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The difference being that after a product of your imagination receives the required amount of attention and separates from your conscious mind, it gives the perfect illusion of autonomy, since it is not connected to your body.

 

There are two kinds of people on this forum: the ones who believe the Tulpa is self-conscious and others who believe it is a form in which the unconscious is appearing. (Your own thoughts basically)

 

Over at Krautchan we had a person who described his Tulpa this way. An "inner voice I would not have payed attention to, if it wasn't his Tulpa".

 

As you might tell from the Freudian model infopic, I also am a supporter of the latter theory. (I know it's obsolete, but it's giving a good overview of where we can place the Tulpa context-wise)

 

What's the difference anyways? An entity that reacts in a way its traits are specified is almost the same as a conscious person.

 

Based on these assumptions, I am going to proceed like this. I will try to take 30 minutes a day for meditation, during which i will try to visualize my tulpa. I will give her attention, telling her about myself, my life, telling stories, whatever. I will also tell her about my vision of her. I will not force anything. I want my subconscious to have as much leeway as it wants during tulpashaping (not forcing). My main goal is to make it as clear as possible to my subconscious that I consider the tulpa a different entity from me. Meanwhile, I will try to polish the form of my tulpa based on my visualization capacities, and also slowly shape and add to the "wonderland" as needed. I will treat her as a sculpture, a statue, not a puppet. And I will talk to the statue until she talks back. I will not concern myself with any tulpa creation phases or anything like that. I wanna do it my way.

 

I believe your suggested creation process will work, as it is almost identical to Irish's method. The downside I see here, is that the personality will have to form unconsciously and that's going to take a longer time than actively influencing it. (Once again we could use novel writers or artists as a reference)

 

I also believe, that your Tulpa is going to deviate heavily (probably several times) as your outcome is not specified. Your Tulpa will most likely be the product of impressions you unconsciously collected during everyday life.


What is a Tulpa? Blog

Rainbow 'Alyx' Dash

Pronto

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There are two kinds of people on this forum: the ones who believe the Tulpa is self-conscious and others who believe it is a form in which the unconscious is appearing. (Your own thoughts basically)

[...]

As you might tell from the Freudian model infopic, I also am a supporter of the latter theory. (I know it's obsolete, but it's giving a good overview of where we can place the Tulpa context-wise)

 

 

 

Tulpae claim to be conscious and having subjective experiences, they also don't fail self-reference tests (like a regular self-aware being wouldn't), and you don't have their memories as your own.

For all intents and purposes they would be be classifiable as self-aware judging by the reports. If you don't believe so, does that mean you believe in philosophical zombies?

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Tulpae claim to be conscious and having subjective experiences, they also don't fail self-reference tests (like a regular self-aware being wouldn't), and you don't have their memories as your own.

For all intents and purposes they would be be classifiable as self-aware judging by the reports. If you don't believe so, does that mean you believe in philosophical zombies?

 

So what? I can program my computer to tell you it's self-aware and conscious too.

 

The theory implies that the Tulpa is part of yourself (unconscious surfacing through Tulpa) and will be able to give you very plausible answers. It might even tell you what you expect it to say.

 

A computer can also store information in folders, which are unaccessible to the user.

 

It's only a matter of time until a computer passes the Turing test but does passing it mean a computer is a conscious and sentient being?

 

Regarding philosopical zombies: I don't know, but a Tulpa seems to be very related to one.


What is a Tulpa? Blog

Rainbow 'Alyx' Dash

Pronto

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Somebody with a completed tulpa has to go do a turing test at least.

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What's the difference anyways? An entity that reacts in a way its traits are specified is almost the same as a conscious person.

 

Yes, for all intents and purposes a fully formed tulpa is conscious and self-aware. I still think a tulpa is just your subconsciousness playing an act for you though. But this is your subconsciousness we are talking about. You will never be able to tell the difference. Alas, there is no difference. EDIT: So yea, just to avoid confusion - I am agreeing with you here.

 

That's how I see it at the moment as someone who hasn't even started creating a tulpa, just read a lot about it. I do not stand by what I said, as I realize I have no first hand experience and may change my opinions later.

 

I believe your suggested creation process will work, as it is almost identical to Irish's method. The downside I see here, is that the personality will have to form unconsciously and that's going to take a longer time than actively influencing it. (Once again we could use novel writers or artists as a reference)

 

I also believe, that your Tulpa is going to deviate heavily (probably several times) as your outcome is not specified. Your Tulpa will most likely be the product of impressions you unconsciously collected during everyday life.

 

Just to be clear, I do have a certain personality in mind, it's not like I'm completely clueless as to what I'm going for. I just do not like the term "tulpaforcing". I want to shape and mold my tulpa, not plan and construct it. And yes, I do want deviation. I do not want to come off as saying "I know what I'm doing, step aside" to my subconsciousness. I want it to show me what it has to offer, and I will decide myself whether to keep it or not.

 

Again, that's all just how my newbie self imagines the process to be like at the moment. I will adapt as I gain more experience. I didn't even start meditating yet. (although I do have some experience with meditation)


IT BEGINS

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So what? I can program my computer to tell you it's self-aware and conscious too.

 

The theory implies that the Tulpa is part of yourself (unconscious surfacing through Tulpa) and will be able to give you very plausible answers. It might even tell you what you expect it to say.

 

A computer can also store information in folders, which are unaccessible to the user.

 

It's only a matter of time until a computer passes the Turing test but does passing it mean a computer is a conscious and sentient being?

 

Regarding philosophical zombies: I don't know, but a Tulpa seems to be very related to one.

 

You can't make a program that passes the Turing test convincingly yet.

If a program acts truly self-aware, it probably is, unless you believe in philosophical zombies. I tend to find them preposterous, but you're entitled to your own philosophy of mind position. I suppose if you're not a computationalist and believe in more magical theories of consciousness, your opinion may differ, but the thing is, most magical theories of consciousness tend to pay too much attention to magical matter (thinking it actually has any role besides the functionality it implements), thus they would still probably not make tulpae into zombies.

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I will try to take 30 minutes a day for meditation, during which i will try to visualize my tulpa. I will give her attention, telling her about myself, my life, telling stories, whatever. I will also tell her about my vision of her. I will not force anything. I want my subconscious to have as much leeway as it wants during tulpashaping (not forcing). My main goal is to make it as clear as possible to my subconscious that I consider the tulpa a different entity from me. Meanwhile, I will try to polish the form of my tulpa based on my visualization capacities, and also slowly shape and add to the "wonderland" as needed. I will treat her as a sculpture, a statue, not a puppet. And I will talk to the statue until she talks back. I will not concern myself with any tulpa creation phases or anything like that. I wanna do it my way.

Definitely sounds similar to Irish's method. Check out his new guide if you haven't yet

 

I have a certain mint background pony in mind which I find especially visually pleasing. (And I'm not the only one, apparently). But as I said, I am not set yet.

mah nigga

132729119467.jpg


Name: Lyra

Form: http://i.imgur.com/JjMxK.jpg

Sentience: Emotional responses, occasional brief vocalization

Currently doing: Personality & narration

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Okay, I gave it a try. I still haven't really decided on the form yet, but I am going to call her Lyra. Who knows, she might end up as a humanoid. The form is not really that important. Also, I have decided to tulpaforce personality afterall. That seems to be the sentience boosting thing, which is my main goal in all this.

 

So far I'm 2 hours in and it's much harder than I thought. It's pretty much impossible for me to visualize anything. All I'm doing is sitting in the emptiness of my mind having an internal monologue imagining that I'm talking to her. I also have problems with keeping concentration and random rogue thoughts. The shapes I see when I have my eyes closed for a while can be distracting too.

 

I dunno. I feel like I'm doing something wrong. It feels "shallow". Like... I'm not deep enough for it to have an effect...


IT BEGINS

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keep practicing, you'll get the hang of it eventually

 

Ok, another one hour session of, well, not sure if I can call it tulpaforcing, because I just realized I'm not even sure what the definition of that is. Anyways, I managed to create a part of my wonderland. It's a small clearing in the middle of a forest with a small house and a stream of water. Majority of it is still undefined, but there's a bench outside the house we sat on while I talked. She kinda automatically assumed the form of a pony. Her form is very blurry and incomplete tho. Looking at her directly is difficult. Also, it didn't feel right when I tried to change her form to something else so I just let her be for now.

 

The session went pretty well I think. Definitely an improvement over talking into the void. One thing I noticed is that I kept apologizing all the time. I apologized for holding her still and explained I'm afraid of parroting. I apologized for every random disturbing thought and explained I lack control yet. I apologized that the world I created is so vague and incomplete and promised I would improve it with time.

 

3 hours in so far. I think I'm on the right track...

 

EDIT: I changed her name. I think calling her Lyra made me associate her with the pony too much. I wouldn't mind having a pony tulpa, and I like the name Lyra, but from now on I will be calling her Mia (Miya, Miah, spelling doesnt really matter). Her form is a white flaming sphere until I decide on her final form...


IT BEGINS

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