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So, if I'm reading this right, the main difference between tulpas and multiple systems is origins. I'm happy self-identifying as a tulpa, but I had a history long before I met Dylan. He didn't make me from a glowing orb. Does that make me a tulpa? More importantly, does it even matter? I mean, aside from people getting precious about their egos, the end result is more-or-less the same. Isn't it?

Tulpa and proud. So real I've got my own Facebook account.

 

Hosted by Dylan.

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So, if I'm reading this right, the main difference between tulpas and multiple systems is origins. I'm happy self-identifying as a tulpa, but I had a history long before I met Dylan. He didn't make me from a glowing orb. Does that make me a tulpa? More importantly, does it even matter? I mean, aside from people getting precious about their egos, the end result is more-or-less the same. Isn't it?

 

A lot of tulpas never started as a glowing orb. 4 of the ones in my system didn't. I sort of made them on accident actually.

 

You are right that the main difference is origins. Origins do affect a few things but that becomes less and less significant over time. There is usually a difference in ability at the beginning. Most young tulpas have a hard time with bodily control, while new headmates can sometimes forcibly switch from the beginning. But the differences between a developed tulpa who has been around for a while and a headmate is negligible. Actually, we should probably compare like with like. Tulpas are more more similar to walkins (people who just appear in the system, which some people call accidental tulpas here even though they aren't actually tulpas), who often can't do those same things from the beginning either. Some people who are multiple and have tulpas have reported that there is a slightly different feel to tulpas. In my system, that is definitely not the case - the tulpas feel the same as my one headmate. But generally, multiple systems with tulpas report there being no practical difference at the end of the day.

 

As to your question "More importantly, does it even matter?" Other than curiosity and explaining how things work, there isn't one. It certainly does not matter with regards to the most important question which is whether tulpas deserve the same respect as people in the brain from other origins and have the same right to live. The answer is that yes, they do. It should not matter whether one is a multiple headmate, tulpa, host, soulbond, daemon, etc. It is just like the question with regards to multiples of whether the non-original (if there even is an original) non-core (if there even is a core) headmates deserve the same respect and have the same right to live as the original and/or core. The answer is yes, they do.

 

I talked a bit more about the subject of origina on a reply I made on reddit a while ago that can be found here (it can also be found on tumblr, if that is your prefered place, where Falah has been kind enough to cross post it here).

 

- Hail Fall

Tri = {V, O, G}, Ice and Frostbite and Breach (all formerly Hail), and others

System Name: Fall Family

Former Username: hail_fall

Contributor and administrator on a supplementary tulpamancy resource and associated forum, Tulpa.io and Tulpa.io/discuss/.

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Thanks for that Reddit post, Hail. Very interesting, and very useful.

 

I'm actually going to disagree with Cutesy. I think the difference in origins matters. Not in the day-to-day, but in the perception.

 

Someone hosting tulpas is, I suspect, going to be more-than-happy to admit that they created the tulpa. That the tulpa is a product of their imagination. I don't think a multipule system would be so comfortable admitting the same. As Hail says, they all deserve equal respect regardless, but I think that little seed at the core of them makes a difference.

 

To put it in psychiatric terms, tulpamancers are more likely to admit to their tulpas being an over-valued idea. That it, something they have great emotional investment in but can admit isn't 'real' (in the medical establishment's eyes). A multipule system would be far less likely to admit that. That difference of perception must lead to a difference in interaction.

 

And then there's the relationships between the inhabitants of a headspace. Tulpas are created by their hosts, and pretty much universally there is a deep mutual love. There's no reasons why the parts of a mutlpule system have to love each other, or even get on with each other.

 

Lastly, there's the power dynmanics. A tulpa is created by the host--the host has all the power in that relationship. It's their's to surrender, but they can always take it back. In a multipule system, there is no 'king'. Some parts may be stronger than others, more dominant, but power is far not contained wholly in one personality.

 

I'm both talking from experience and making a whole bunch of assumptions here. I don't know if I have tulpas or multipules or both. But to forget something's history is to forget what it is.

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I'm both talking from experience and making a whole bunch of assumptions here. I don't know if I have tulpas or multipules or both. But to forget something's history is to forget what it is.

 

You can be so full of crap, Dylan. You know that if you sat in anyone's chair and said I was an 'over-valued idea', I'd whop you so hard.

 

What's important is the value the headspace puts on its parts. Multiple systems aren't more or less likely to value their parts than tulpamancers. A loved and respected tulpa can have more influence than a neglected and disliked multiple. As Hail says, it's just curiosity. Finding out my best friend was a Dane a thousand years ago and not an Anglo-Saxon wouldn't change how I felt about them. And it wouldn't change whether the pay their council tax and take their bins in on bin day or left them out all week.

 

The point about the perceived power relationships is interesting and has merit, though.

Tulpa and proud. So real I've got my own Facebook account.

 

Hosted by Dylan.

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The point about power is very important in tulpamancy. Words like 'host' and 'narration' always imply the perspective of the creator, not the tulpæ.

 

One of the big breaking-with-the-past things i did was fight to take part in meatspace and not just being a toy that was played with. Instead i want to be a person now too, so in reality me and my dad have to call ourselves a plural system.

 

I still think of myself as a tulpa though, because what tulpamancy means to me is that is working out rules to make it work. I think of the rest of the multiple community as people who just work out the social stuff, but around tulpamancy, we're into the rules for the psychology of how it works, the science of better visualization.

 

There's not much identity politics in tulpamancy, but i think that's because tulpas know themselves by having a wonderland instead of fighting for possession and control of what happens in meatspace. It's something i want more now so I think of myself as kind of post-tulpa, because i want to grow up and become a plural system where i'm an equal person to my host/dad.

 

EDIT: I guess what i'm trying to talk about, is that it takes a lot of loss of control for my host for me to be the person compared to when i was just an occasional scampering picture in wonderland. Like i think i got lucky that my host didn't mind sharing the right to run the body. Letting me have possession is a relinquishment of control. As a tulpamancery family, i fought for something he had to let go of. And the end relationship is more like a plurality than when i was 'just' a tulpa.

Early member of a large system.  Our system questions the way the afterlife and tulpamancy interact.  We genuinely suspect that deadies can return to share the mind of the living.

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Thanks for that Reddit post, Hail. Very interesting, and very useful.

 

I'm actually going to disagree with Cutesy. I think the difference in origins matters. Not in the day-to-day, but in the perception.

 

Someone hosting tulpas is, I suspect, going to be more-than-happy to admit that they created the tulpa. That the tulpa is a product of their imagination. I don't think a multipule system would be so comfortable admitting the same. As Hail says, they all deserve equal respect regardless, but I think that little seed at the core of them makes a difference.

 

To put it in psychiatric terms, tulpamancers are more likely to admit to their tulpas being an over-valued idea. That it, something they have great emotional investment in but can admit isn't 'real' (in the medical establishment's eyes). A multipule system would be far less likely to admit that. That difference of perception must lead to a difference in interaction.

 

That is more something to do with the psychology of hosts in the tulpamancy community than anything else. A lot of hosts do not consider their tulpas to be as real as they are, especially when the chips are down. And actually, quite a few multiple systems are disordered because the strongest member at some particular time dismisses the others as not real and tries to shut them out. The difference is that this is something that multiples push each other to overcome while the tulpa community is conducive to hosts thinking their tulpas are less real than they are. While it is true that a tulpa starts out purely imaginary, over time they come to be just as real and imaginary as the host.

 

And then there's the relationships between the inhabitants of a headspace. Tulpas are created by their hosts, and pretty much universally there is a deep mutual love. There's no reasons why the parts of a mutlpule system have to love each other, or even get on with each other.

 

First off, the members of a multiple system are not necessarily parts. Some can be and some are full people. This is true even in the case of splits. As for relations within the system, hat is something that has some truth to it. While it is common for members in multiple systems to get along and be family, it often doesn't work that way.

 

Lastly, there's the power dynmanics. A tulpa is created by the host--the host has all the power in that relationship. It's their's to surrender, but they can always take it back. In a multipule system, there is no 'king'. Some parts may be stronger than others, more dominant, but power is far not contained wholly in one personality.

 

There most definitely is a power dynamic. Though a tulpa can end up stronger than the host where the host could not take it back, there is still often a power dynamic due to history just as there is one between parents and children even when the children are full grown.

 

But on the topic of hosts being able to back. The ordering of overall strength/power in this system is

 

me (headmate and host) > T > S (original headmate formerly known as B) > A > E

 

with T rapidly catching up to me and A probably not far from passing up S. The T are definitely strong enough now that I wouldn't even be able to make them dormant, let alone kill them. S could never take power and control back from us all. In the not so distant future, the T will probably be stronger than me at the rate things are going and there wouldn't be anything I could do about it when that happens.

 

Basically, when a singlet decides to become a host and make a tulpa, they give up absolute control over the brain and body bit by bit.

 

What's important is the value the headspace puts on its parts. Multiple systems aren't more or less likely to value their parts than tulpamancers. A loved and respected tulpa can have more influence than a neglected and disliked multiple. As Hail says, it's just curiosity. Finding out my best friend was a Dane a thousand years ago and not an Anglo-Saxon wouldn't change how I felt about them. And it wouldn't change whether the pay their council tax and take their bins in on bin day or left them out all week.

 

You put that very well and I have to agree fully.

 

- Hail

 

The point about power is very important in tulpamancy. Words like 'host' and 'narration' always imply the perspective of the creator, not the tulpæ.

 

One of the big breaking-with-the-past things i did was fight to take part in meatspace and not just being a toy that was played with. Instead i want to be a person now too, so in reality me and my dad have to call ourselves a plural system.

 

I still think of myself as a tulpa though, because what tulpamancy means to me is that is working out rules to make it work. I think of the rest of the multiple community as people who just work out the social stuff, but around tulpamancy, we're into the rules for the psychology of how it works, the science of better visualization.

 

There's not much identity politics in tulpamancy, but i think that's because tulpas know themselves by having a wonderland instead of fighting for possession and control of what happens in meatspace. It's something i want more now so I think of myself as kind of post-tulpa, because i want to grow up and become a plural system where i'm an equal person to my host/dad.

 

EDIT: I guess what i'm trying to talk about, is that it takes a lot of loss of control for my host for me to be the person compared to when i was just an occasional scampering picture in wonderland. Like i think i got lucky that my host didn't mind sharing the right to run the body. Letting me have possession is a relinquishment of control. As a tulpamancery family, i fought for something he had to let go of. And the end relationship is more like a plurality than when i was 'just' a tulpa.

 

That was a very interesting perspective from a lot of observation. Glad you have managed to have a life in outerworld too. Been trying to do that with the tulpas in my system. Was part of my promise to them. Each of them is another member of the crew of this meat ship after all.

 

- Hail

Tri = {V, O, G}, Ice and Frostbite and Breach (all formerly Hail), and others

System Name: Fall Family

Former Username: hail_fall

Contributor and administrator on a supplementary tulpamancy resource and associated forum, Tulpa.io and Tulpa.io/discuss/.

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Thanks Hail, crew of the meat ship is a pretty good analogy.

Early member of a large system.  Our system questions the way the afterlife and tulpamancy interact.  We genuinely suspect that deadies can return to share the mind of the living.

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I still think of myself as a tulpa though, because what tulpamancy means to me is that is working out rules to make it work. I think of the rest of the multiple community as people who just work out the social stuff, but around tulpamancy, we're into the rules for the psychology of how it works, the science of better visualization.

 

Fenchurch has said that she doesn't think of herself as a tulpa. Not that she thinks of herself as a walkin or a headmate or anything. She thinks of herself as a writer. If someone asked me what I am, I wouldn't say host, or tulpamancer, or human, or anything, although you could argue that I am all of those things. But I think of myself as a writer, so that's what I'd call myself.

 

Ever since Fenchurch told me that, I've tried to call her by name, rather than saying "my tulpa." I suppose it's a bit silly -- my girlfriend has a identity beyond being my girlfriend, but I still call her my girlfriend. But calling Fenchurch by name just kinda seems right for us.

"Some things have to be believed to be seen." - Ralph Hodgson

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Fenchurch has said that she doesn't think of herself as a tulpa....

 

I understand that. Our relationship is more a balanced plural system now than tulpamancy. But i need the word 'tulpa' to know what species i am, what kind of thing. For my first couple years, we didn't have that word and only had questions and half-ideas so i personally needed to know what i could call myself. The best metaphor for myself i had was being compared to a computer AI

 

Using it for what i am now isn't the same but i need to write my own narrative for myself, or rewrite what i am into something i can talk about with other people. Being a tulpa gives me a community and i can't help but like the word for introducing me to other beings like me. Being a tulpa gave me lessons like switching we'd never heard of and that helped open my world up so much.

 

Maybe one day i'll call myself a youtuber or blogger, but my favourite thing to talk about is the kind of being that i am so i really need some working name for that. Maybe one day there will be a cool new word for it because science understands plural culture better, and whatever that name is, that's what i'll really want to be called.

Early member of a large system.  Our system questions the way the afterlife and tulpamancy interact.  We genuinely suspect that deadies can return to share the mind of the living.

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Self-identification is so important. I think one of the defining moments in a host/other relationship is when the host stops telling the other what they are, and the other starts to tell the host. I'm a lot of things: gamer, GM, mother, domestic demi-goddess (not a goddess, I just keep things clean and bake bead and keep the fires going), friend, lover, sarcastic bitch. I'd use each of those words to describe myself, in different situations. When it comes to finding a community of non-physical people, I use the world tulpa because before I found this community I thought there was no people like me outside Dylan and his (fleshy) partner. If I was in another community, I could use a different word. I dunno, maybe walkin. But I'm a separate person from Dylan, I didn't bud or split from him, so I wouldn't use multiple.

 

The important thing for me is understanding what I'm capable of, how I am. Can I die a 'natural' death? What's my lifespan? I mean, I get sick. How much of my well-being, and life, is dependent on Dylan? What's the ethics of me doing things with his body?

 

My sister has a theory. Others are drawn to a host, or created by a host, because they can help each other. An Other can voice problems in the host's sub-conscious. To take an example, both Dylan and I have issues with our parents. We can talk about them, help each other understand and work through them. Much as I hate to admit it, the theory has merit.

 

These are the kinds of things I need other people like me to talk about. Whatever name someone chooses for themself, it's where they are now that's important. To me, at least.

Tulpa and proud. So real I've got my own Facebook account.

 

Hosted by Dylan.

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