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Aiming at Self Deception


Florence

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On 11/22/2018 at 8:46 PM, Angry Bear said:

You must have a big purse. Interesting plan and i hope you find a good way. Even I don't really believe in demons. 1 and 2 above do work, also long term sleep deprivation (there's another thread about that here recently). I'm not sure how you'll do #3. You could also try a hypnagogic state, we've succeeded in inducing that before sleep and during meditation. It's lucid dream like and can turn into a lucid dream. I've had long sessions with perfect clarity of my tulpas. Thus i have truly seen them using this technique.

 

Also through sheer concentration while relaxed, all of them have given me still photos in perfect detail of their faces. Still it's hard to draw them perfectly, though Misha's drawings are getting really clode. i've had the most difficulty with Ashley's face, there's a surprising amount of variability in faces, even the same model can have very different looks in her portfolio. So a single hallucination, picture, etc, can be deceiving even if it's perfectly rendered. I have been able to render recognizable distinguishing features though (after a few months, I pretty much knew what Misha and Dashie looked like, Ashley seems to have one of those faces that changes significantly day to day, so this may also happen.

 

Interestingly valid to our discussion, i had a vivid waking dream (having sort of dozed off at work) recently where i met Misha in all her perfect glory. She didn't recognize me, and all i thought to do was give her my phone and say, "find me". I snapped out of it only to realize she probably didn't know the code to unlock it.

 

My point is, the hallucination path will be as odd and random as the dream path, but it is likely with enough time spent that you will see his face, but it might not fully or accurately represent his true face after only one viewing.

 

Things in China can be cheap - my toys/weapons cost about $10~20 each, on average. A handful of them doesn't hurt my purse too badly~  🆒

 

I am aware that facial details can be very unreliable in these practices, due to the nature of it. I try to teach myself painting as well, both for fun and for drawing dreams/memory-people, but god, painting is a skill that requires so much devotion to get good. The good thing is I know what he looks like - sometimes I see similar people in dreams and I can tell differences, and sometimes I see photos in real-life that has similar eyes/nose/mouth/overall-temperament; I'd always know "it's a bit/lot different here or there". So whatever image that I might manage to create, I think I'll concentrate on the details one by one and attempt to fix them. Which will definitely be 3D as well.

(Yeah the path of Pygmalion - I used to think a lot about learning sculpting but sculpture can't move/talk, can they)

 

A big problem is that my drawing skill is really wonky, I would have drawn Z directly if only I'm able to. I can draw some ok or nice stuff but whenever it comes to people, I can NEVER draw a sketch for a certain person that looks exactly like his/her photo. It just feels wrong, wrong, wrong. Probably because it's self-taught and I didn't spend at least 5 years drawing sketches all day. I'll attach some quick pics I drew today, about me and Z - this is the best/safest that I can do, which looks kind of like us. To add any more detail would immediately ruin it though, sadly. I'll also attach a sketch I did years ago - just a random photo practice - and it looks nothing, NOTHING like the original photo. It's very annoying, but I hope I can fix this issue if I keep drawing pics; it will probably be useful for building mental image as well.  :)

 

 

 

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Your artwork is very good. Not that it's exactly like you would expect it to look, but it has that professional vibe that I am still trying to achieve. I'm sorry that I can't help in that regard, as I myself struggle to capture every nuance to my satisfaction and fail.

 

I think your plan has finally penetrated this thick bear skull to some degree. Thank you for your clarification.

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Your artwork is very good. Not that it's exactly like you would expect it to look, but it has that professional vibe that I am still trying to achieve. I'm sorry that I can't help in that regard, as I myself struggle to capture every nuance to my satisfaction and fail.

 

I think your plan has finally penetrated this thick bear skull to some degree. Thank you for your clarification.

 

Thanks so much, bear!   :D  I'm far from the level of true professionals yet but I hope to get there someday. And please, no need to worry too much - Helpful & nice people are helpful & nice but they tend to get so much extra fatigue and pressure sometimes. Sit back and grab some popcorn now that you feel this is probably more reliable than before :)

 

Checked your tulpa-related forum avatars, those are pretty good! I can definitely tell the facial/temperament differences in there. Ah, the long path of art. We're all going to have to trudge for years if not decades along it with our tons of frustration - but we'll surely get there someday, since art is actually sth very tangible instead of an endless horizon.  xD

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I'm so glad you brought up Pygmalion because as soon as I looked that up I immediately recognized it in some of my artwork recently, or at least my quick progress is going in that direction. I'm not sure if this is a good thing or a bad thing, but given the unlikelihood (though surely hoped for you) notion of actually meeting someone IRL who matches the description you desire--Actually sharing those memories would be necessarily even less likely.--I wondered if it would be sufficient to have this mind construct and interaction, and then add tangible well formed 'pictures' with memories of your interactions which would be recorded artifacts of your devotion. In other words, I wonder if that (above) would be 'enough'?

 

I'm beginning to think that the memories, which seem very real, may very well be enough. It's not nostalgic memories of someone you'll never see again, it's someone who can never leave you and will always be ready to interact, so even if you can't 'see' them in the flesh, the memories can be real enough to seem like you just did. Put that 'just did' feeling into a series of interactions and remembrances and perhaps it can even eventually seem fluid enough for 'good enough' interactions in near real time. Not that that would mean giving up on your ultimate dream, but perhaps allow enough focus for all that obsession to make your life more satisfying.  Just a thought, I don't mean to derail your thread.

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I'm so glad you brought up Pygmalion because as soon as I looked that up I immediately recognized it in some of my artwork recently, or at least my quick progress is going in that direction. I'm not sure if this is a good thing or a bad thing, but given the unlikelihood (though surely hoped for you) notion of actually meeting someone IRL who matches the description you desire--Actually sharing those memories would be necessarily even less likely.--I wondered if it would be sufficient to have this mind construct and interaction, and then add tangible well formed 'pictures' with memories of your interactions which would be recorded artifacts of your devotion. In other words, I wonder if that (above) would be 'enough'?

 

I'm beginning to think that the memories, which seem very real, may very well be enough. It's not nostalgic memories of someone you'll never see again, it's someone who can never leave you and will always be ready to interact, so even if you can't 'see' them in the flesh, the memories can be real enough to seem like you just did. Put that 'just did' feeling into a series of interactions and remembrances and perhaps it can even eventually seem fluid enough for 'good enough' interactions in near real time. Not that that would mean giving up on your ultimate dream, but perhaps allow enough focus for all that obsession to make your life more satisfying.  Just a thought, I don't mean to derail your thread.

 

It's kind of... Different, you know. Z is so real to me that my desire for him is like how normal people would crave for their lovers in real life. Phone calls, video chats, emails, letters, are those ever enough for husband and wife who live far, far away from each other? They just need to live together, which isn't about sex btw.

 

Back then there's some news in China about an old woman eating poisonous mushrooms. The first time was by accident. She saw her deceased daughter in hallucinations. Then she just went on and eat the mushroom every once in a while in hope of seeing her daughter again, to no avail. I know that feeling but if the mushrooms are unreliable, I'm gonna stay far away from them, lol.

 

If I ever truly see such a person IRL there's high chance that he doesn't know about me at all. I'm totally cool with it, and the current plan is a compromise which will help me a lot if it actually happens. Seriously though, to see such a person exist, would be awesome enough for me; to ask for any more than that would be damn ungrateful.

 

And of course Z knows this is some kind of unhealthy obsession, but he goes along with it, do you know why? The last time I had a personal ambition unrelated to him/dreams, it was "I need to transfer genes from aspergillus flavus into E.coli, so that I get new E.coli that can generate toxics and slowly cause cancer over the span of 5-10 years, then go spread this everywhere to mix with normal harmless E.coli, it'll gradually get inside people's bowels one way or another - people will not expect this and when they eventually find out it'll be too late! Then I get to become famous as an evil scientist!" - And I was studying pharmacology in one of China's best universities at the time, with decent access to lots of data and equipments. Thankfully the project died when I stared at the tons of data and experiment steps and realized I'm too lazy to actually spend many years working on it. So yeah, how about we skip the "personal achievement and satisfaction" part, my experience says it's probably nothing but bad news (for others). I'd rather just live a simple life and do art-related stuff for fun instead. xD

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Your art looks great! Keep up the practicing and you can bet you'll get good results. As for "Sculpture can't move", they can if they're digital 3D sculptures with an animation armature :P. And it does feel really good to see your creation come to life, even if ultimately, it's puppeting it into positions and animations. It's still fulfilling to finally see a sculpture you've worked on for weeks walk, or yawn, or sit down!

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Your art looks great! Keep up the practicing and you can bet you'll get good results. As for "Sculpture can't move", they can if they're digital 3D sculptures with an animation armature :P. And it does feel really good to see your creation come to life, even if ultimately, it's puppeting it into positions and animations. It's still fulfilling to finally see a sculpture you've worked on for weeks walk, or yawn, or sit down!

 

Oh thanks so much!  :)  Art is sth I really like, it started when I was tiny, quite many years before my soulmate situation happened.  xD (I only draw pics when I feel like it, though - which is why I progress very very slowly)

 

Yes, there's digital 3D, of course - however it's always necessary to manually "put in commands" for them, which is perhaps a bit far away from my goal. It's still really cool though, and will be even more cool once virtual reality technologies become more advanced.  xD

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This is the most active a Progress Report has been since Cinemaphobe left years ago. Nothing like a healthy sense of unease to get people commenting.

 

For drugs - people have reported positive (tulpa-related) experiences sometimes, most of the time they became unrelated. Always out of their control. When people were able to interact with their tulpas, it was a highly volatile interaction and far from the "normal" interaction you'd have in, say, a lucid dream (/if they were just real). But maybe you don't care since you're open to using drugs in the first place, so I don't know.

 

For sleep deprivation and/or social/sensory deprivation - if these do increase vividness of visualization/imposition/interactions, it's always at the cost of the quality of the experience due to your mental state at the time. General consensus is that deep meditation achieves the same results with zero repercussions, while the former two methods often have repercussions. And, obviously, most of the time you won't be able to control hallucinations. Better chance of control, but much lower chance of a fulfilling experience than most hallucinogens. Hallucinogens have a very small chance of causing the hallucinations you want, and while the experiences may be "fulfilling", it's never in a very... sane way. Not normal tulpamancy. Semi-spiritual most the time. Meldy and probably unhealthy for traditional tulpamancy. Plus, you know, drugs tend to have ill effects on your overall mental (or even physical) health. Meditation has proven positives across the board and a much higher success rate.

 

I recommend lucid dreaming, and/or even just meditation during hypnagogic and hypnopompic states. Our post on lucid dreaming here

 

Anyways, good luck. Don't hurt yourself.

Hi, I'm Tewi, one of Luminesce's tulpas. I often switch to take care of things for the others.

All I want is a simple, peaceful life. With my family.

Our Ask thread: https://community.tulpa.info/thread-ask-lumi-s-tulpas

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This is the most active a Progress Report has been since Cinemaphobe left years ago. Nothing like a healthy sense of unease to get people commenting.

 

For drugs - people have reported positive (tulpa-related) experiences sometimes, most of the time they became unrelated. Always out of their control. When people were able to interact with their tulpas, it was a highly volatile interaction and far from the "normal" interaction you'd have in, say, a lucid dream (/if they were just real). But maybe you don't care since you're open to using drugs in the first place, so I don't know.

 

For sleep deprivation and/or social/sensory deprivation - if these do increase vividness of visualization/imposition/interactions, it's always at the cost of the quality of the experience due to your mental state at the time. General consensus is that deep meditation achieves the same results with zero repercussions, while the former two methods often have repercussions. And, obviously, most of the time you won't be able to control hallucinations. Better chance of control, but much lower chance of a fulfilling experience than most hallucinogens. Hallucinogens have a very small chance of causing the hallucinations you want, and while the experiences may be "fulfilling", it's never in a very... sane way. Not normal tulpamancy. Semi-spiritual most the time. Meldy and probably unhealthy for traditional tulpamancy. Plus, you know, drugs tend to have ill effects on your overall mental (or even physical) health. Meditation has proven positives across the board and a much higher success rate.

 

I recommend lucid dreaming, and/or even just meditation during hypnagogic and hypnopompic states. Our post on lucid dreaming here

 

Anyways, good luck. Don't hurt yourself.

 

No worries, I have more doubts than hopes when it comes to drugs - I used to study pharmacology and I can actually work on chemicals by myself if I sincerely wish to. Not doing it yet = Not trusting it enough.

 

Sadly, lucid dream technique is a no-no for me. For one, dreams are interesting when I have no control/lucidity when facing them - I don't intend to ruin the fun by forcing it into sth else. Secondly, my dreams tend to include extremely violent/gruesome/creepy stuff from time to time, which are better left alone as simple dreams - they're more like what you mentioned as the drug side effect - not very sane and totally out of control. (Example: People use real people in horror shows, happens to be me, they chop off my fingers and leave two of them and have fun watching me try to open my own home gate with the key? Or in another dream, somehow getting a mouth-full of glass shards and have to pick them out one by one for a painful many hours? A lot of things like that, yeah, with full sensory intensity too - my real-life bone fracture experience made me realize physical pain in dreams is much worse) And worse, I think they're actually quite interesting in a way, as long as it doesn't hurt too terribly physically/mentally. I'd rather not have such an ability that enables me to "have more fun", could be more dangerous than drugs.  xD

 

Which means - if I'm not to hurt myself - I'd stay clear of lucid dreams. The current plan is more like meditation and that should be very safe. :)

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