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Why Your Tulpa Probably Isn't Evil


Raymond

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The character was certainly created evil, that's not unusual, i have created evil characters. So you appreciate them for what they do and you spend a lot of time with them, like it or not, eventually they start thinking for themselves.

 

#1. Doesn't even mean they ever became a tulpa. They could very easily fool those tests and still not be. Even after all this time, they still don't have to be a tulpa until you accept them.

 

#2. It requires forcing and a bit of acceptance and fostering to be a tulpa, so you or another active system mate would have to do that while fronting. I don't believe a non-fronting member can do this without consent of the active fronter, and you're going to have a hard time trying to convince anyone here that this happened because there's too much evidence that it was probably a walk-in (requiring no creation forcing, but certainly not a tulpa until forced and accepted).

 

#3. So if you forced an evil character and accepted them as a tulpa and continued to force them, now what? Well, the character and the tulpa are two entirely different things, as in a thing and a person. The person (tulpa) doesn't have to accept the template (character), so they aren't evil themselves unless the fronting forcer continues to reward them for being evil, otherwise you could easily talk them out of it. I have three tulpas who were fictive, they didn't keep any of their respective backgrounds.

 

#4 this community doesn't deal with soulbonds, so my knowledge is minimal, but it can happen that a tulpa keeps their history and background lore just like a soulbond. I have many characters that could be turned into tulpas or soulbonds. I play with them, include them, 'force them' but with no intention to promote them to tulpa, thus none have switched and some are even stronger than my tulpas were when i accepted them. Still their history is the past, and if they want a future, they need rehabilitation or rejection of their past. They can be reformed.

 

#5 keeping whatever it or she is on ice is safe, if you never force her again, she's no danger. If she appeared and started causing trouble, treat her like any other intrusive thought. It happens to me all the time, especially with a couple dragons that i continue to think of. When they show up unexpectedly we fight or banish them immediately, then ignore them. It's really easy with practice.

 


 

Finally, my advice is to kerp her/it on ice, but if you want to rehabilitate her, i don't think her past matters at all. A character of mine that is not a person of her own, but still a semi-active member of our system, is one who had a horrible past, she would've been really damaged, but she is resolved that she was just the actress who played the part of her past, but it's not her past, so she's fine.

 

It's a rare system that even deals with non-tulpas, and we're working on guides that will address this soon. Specifically, you don't have to accept every sentient seeming thoughtform that rolls up.

 

-----------------------------------

 

Ah, that's an excellent point about walk-ins vs Tulpas. So yes, semantically speaking, you're technically right. However, since I've done this for very long time, I can literally create a tulpa by just imagining a rough outline of what I want, snap my finger and they'd be there, fully active and ready for their new life. I really don't need to force anything. So for me, there isn't much difference between a walk-in that shows up and a tulpa other than the fact that one has certain systems access and the other does not. As for possession/switching, we're not really big on that in our system for multiple reasons, so that's not a factor.

 

The problem with Jane though is that it's a moral dilemma for me, because the level of intelligence she displayed and her ability to learn set her apart from a lot of characters that we tend to meet in our inner worlds. (and yes, we have a lot of worlds and even more characters in them)  The problem is also further compounded by the fact that she's aware of the fact that her world is just one of many out there. And as you say, a tulpa can be anything it wants to be and this one sadly wants to remain a psychopath that'd rather destroy things "for fun" than to actually do something else.

 

Now, had it been just another thug on the street, I'd laugh and it'd be dust blowing in the wind, but since Jane showed such remarkable intelligence right away, I'm still holding out hope that I can someday figure out a way to get her onto the right path. But, sadly, the last time we spoke, she told me that the only way she'd ever agree to it would be if I forced her to be against her will. And I'm not going to take that step.

 

So when it comes to Jane, she already has all the markings of a tulpa, but just not the system access that one typically has in our system. And that is the only reason she didn't cause more trouble than she already did.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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The character was certainly created evil, that's not unusual, i have created evil characters. So you appreciate them for what they do and you spend a lot of time with them, like it or not, eventually they start thinking for themselves.

 

#1. Doesn't even mean they ever became a tulpa. They could very easily fool those tests and still not be. Even after all this time, they still don't have to be a tulpa until you accept them.

 

#2. It requires forcing and a bit of acceptance and fostering to be a tulpa, so you or another active system mate would have to do that while fronting. I don't believe a non-fronting member can do this without consent of the active fronter, and you're going to have a hard time trying to convince anyone here that this happened because there's too much evidence that it was probably a walk-in (requiring no creation forcing, but certainly not a tulpa until forced and accepted).

 

#3. So if you forced an evil character and accepted them as a tulpa and continued to force them, now what? Well, the character and the tulpa are two entirely different things, as in a thing and a person. The person (tulpa) doesn't have to accept the template (character), so they aren't evil themselves unless the fronting forcer continues to reward them for being evil, otherwise you could easily talk them out of it. I have three tulpas who were fictive, they didn't keep any of their respective backgrounds.

 

#4 this community doesn't deal with soulbonds, so my knowledge is minimal, but it can happen that a tulpa keeps their history and background lore just like a soulbond. I have many characters that could be turned into tulpas or soulbonds. I play with them, include them, 'force them' but with no intention to promote them to tulpa, thus none have switched and some are even stronger than my tulpas were when i accepted them. Still their history is the past, and if they want a future, they need rehabilitation or rejection of their past. They can be reformed.

 

#5 keeping whatever it or she is on ice is safe, if you never force her again, she's no danger. If she appeared and started causing trouble, treat her like any other intrusive thought. It happens to me all the time, especially with a couple dragons that i continue to think of. When they show up unexpectedly we fight or banish them immediately, then ignore them. It's really easy with practice.

 


 

Finally, my advice is to kerp her/it on ice, but if you want to rehabilitate her, i don't think her past matters at all. A character of mine that is not a person of her own, but still a semi-active member of our system, is one who had a horrible past, she would've been really damaged, but she is resolved that she was just the actress who played the part of her past, but it's not her past, so she's fine.

 

It's a rare system that even deals with non-tulpas, and we're working on guides that will address this soon. Specifically, you don't have to accept every sentient seeming thoughtform that rolls up.

Ah, that's an excellent point about walk-ins vs Tulpas. So yes, semantically speaking, you're technically right. However, since I've done this for very long time, I can literally create a tulpa by just imagining a rough outline of what I want, snap my finger and they'd be there, fully active and ready for their new life. I really don't need to force anything. So for me, there isn't much difference between a walk-in that shows up and a tulpa other than the fact that one has certain systems access and the other does not. As for possession/switching, we're not really big on that in our system for multiple reasons, so that's not a factor.

 

The problem with Jane though is that it's a moral dilemma for me, because the level of intelligence she displayed and her ability to learn set her apart from a lot of characters that we tend to meet in our inner worlds. (and yes, we have a lot of worlds and even more characters in them) The problem is also further compounded by the fact that she's aware of the fact that her world is just one of many out there. And as you say, a tulpa can be anything it wants to be and this one sadly wants to remain a psychopath that'd rather destroy things "for fun" than to actually do something else.

 

Now, had it been just another thug on the street, I'd laugh and it'd be dust blowing in the wind, but since Jane showed such remarkable intelligence right away, I'm still holding out hope that I can someday figure out a way to get her onto the right path. But, sadly, the last time we spoke, she told me that the only way she'd ever agree to it would be if I forced her to be against her will. And I'm not going to take that step.

 

So when it comes to Jane, she already has all the markings of a tulpa, but just not the system access that one typically has in our system. And that is the only reason she didn't cause more trouble than she already did.

 

Please put your reply outside of the quote, its so much easier to read

I have a tulpa named Miela who I love very much.

 

 
"People put quotes in their signatures, right?"

-Me

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Omg Bre, so much scrolling.

 

WondrousFairy,

 

Thank you, I'm glad i wasn't mistaken with my current knowledge (even if it's semantically technical). I have a lot of characters, i don't see the need to make them tulpas to experience their uniqueness or diversity, and wehave fun too. Did i understand your allusion correctly, that you have a boat load of tulpas, or remarkable clarity to prevent a boatload of tulpas? If the latter, how do you do (or not do) that?

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When talking about potentially turning a malicious Tulpa good, we must also consider the mental well being of the Host. When I was fighting with my decidedly dark Tulpa it cost me an enormous amount of energy to keep my convictions, my drive and my positivity. Saving a Tulpa can be as hard as saving a bad person. In real life nobody should "fix" another person for their own good as it famously doesn't work. So we need to prioritize the Host in my opinion.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?”

[progress report]

 

 

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Ah, that's an excellent point about walk-ins vs Tulpas. So yes, semantically speaking, you're technically right. However, since I've done this for very long time, I can literally create a tulpa by just imagining a rough outline of what I want, snap my finger and they'd be there, fully active and ready for their new life. I really don't need to force anything. So for me, there isn't much difference between a walk-in that shows up and a tulpa other than the fact that one has certain systems access and the other does not. As for possession/switching, we're not really big on that in our system for multiple reasons, so that's not a factor.

 

The problem with Jane though is that it's a moral dilemma for me, because the level of intelligence she displayed and her ability to learn set her apart from a lot of characters that we tend to meet in our inner worlds. (and yes, we have a lot of worlds and even more characters in them)  The problem is also further compounded by the fact that she's aware of the fact that her world is just one of many out there. And as you say, a tulpa can be anything it wants to be and this one sadly wants to remain a psychopath that'd rather destroy things "for fun" than to actually do something else.

 

Now, had it been just another thug on the street, I'd laugh and it'd be dust blowing in the wind, but since Jane showed such remarkable intelligence right away, I'm still holding out hope that I can someday figure out a way to get her onto the right path. But, sadly, the last time we spoke, she told me that the only way she'd ever agree to it would be if I forced her to be against her will. And I'm not going to take that step.

 

So when it comes to Jane, she already has all the markings of a tulpa, but just not the system access that one typically has in our system. And that is the only reason she didn't cause more trouble than she already did.

 

I wonder if Jane is holding onto the evil psychopath stuff because that's how she identifies herself. I don't know if she would respond well if she had a chance to start over and start from scratch, but it may allow her to re-asses who she wants to be and what her options are.

 

She doesn't have to throw out things she's interests in since some of her interests can be used for good. For instance if she wants to cut things open, she can do that being a doctor or a vet. If she likes studying how people die, maybe she would find forensics fascinating.

 

I don't know how realistic any of my thoughts are, nor do I know if you already tried these. I know I can sometimes be overly optimistic about certain things...

 


 

Cat created these thought forms she calls the "Grays". Long story short, she made clones of herself so she could talk to herself, but the Grays all have different 'personalities' and whatnot. None of the Grays were turned into Tulpas, but I don't know if the more violence-oriented ones would want to stay violent. Most of them seemed to deviate away from evil anyway, for that reason alone they may start out as nicer to begin with. If we decided to create another Tulpa though, we wouldn't use a Gray as a base for one.

I'm Ranger, GrayTheCat's cobud (tulpa), and I love hippos! I also like cake and chatting about stuff. I go by Rosalin or Ronan sometimes. You can call me Roz but please don't call me Ron.

My other headmates have their own account now.

 

If I missed seeing your art, please PM/DM me!

Blog | Not So Temporary Log | Switching Log | Yay! | Bre Translator | Art Thread

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I wonder if Jane is holding onto the evil psychopath stuff because that's how she identifies herself. I don't know if she would respond well if she had a chance to start over and start from scratch, but it may allow her to re-asses who she wants to be and what her options are.

 

She doesn't have to throw out things she's interests in since some of her interests can be used for good. For instance if she wants to cut things open, she can do that being a doctor or a vet. If she likes studying how people die, maybe she would find forensics fascinating.

 

I don't know how realistic any of my thoughts are, nor do I know if you already tried these. I know I can sometimes be overly optimistic about certain things...

 


 

Cat created these thought forms she calls the "Grays". Long story short, she made clones of herself so she could talk to herself, but the Grays all have different 'personalities' and whatnot. None of the Grays were turned into Tulpas, but I don't know if the more violence-oriented ones would want to stay violent. Most of them seemed to deviate away from evil anyway, for that reason alone they may start out as nicer to begin with. If we decided to create another Tulpa though, we wouldn't use a Gray as a base for one.

 

I actually did something that I normally don't. Which is to actually go the vault and wake her up. As we sat down, we had the following discussion:

 

Jane: Missed me? That was a nice nap. So .. who do you need me to kill?

Me: I didn't really thaw you for that. I'm here to talk.  I shared your story online and there's been some discussion of whether or not you can be rehabilitated.

Jane: Oh, so you've immortalized my life in words online? I'm touched!

Me: I noticed that you always do that, you respond to things with sarcasm.

Jane: Oh no, I wasn't being sarcastic. It's actually interesting that you shared my story and that those little people out there actually care! Tell them I said hi.

Me: That wasn't what I wanted to discuss with you.

Jane: So get to the point already, all this talk is starting to bore me.

Me: Alright, someone online wanted me to say this to you (here I showed her the post)

Jane: Oh fuck me haha! What's this? First year psych student bullshit? I know exactly who I am and I like who I am. It's you who don't like the fact that I'm not willing to be another one of your happy people out there. And it's like I've told you before, it's so fucking ironic, because you could fix all of this, you could fix me. Just snap your fingers and make me into another one of your happy puppets. Go on.. I'll love it, because you'll make me love it. What do you say? A little mind fuck never hurt anyone before right? Besides, it probably won't be worse than what the military fucks did to me anyway. Oh and did I tell you about the things they did to my body the first time it came out of the tank? Oh I bet you'd love that little sordid story.. see there was that one researcher who-

Me: I don't wanna hear it.

Jane: But you'd love it! It's a spin on "Boy meets girl" where the boy has a wife that doesn't do anal and the girl is a half drugged clone that's barely conscious.

Me: I know they did terrible things to you over there and if you're serious about talking about them, I'm willing to listen.

Jane: Well, maybe it wasn't "boy meets girl" my memory is kind of fuzzy there, maybe it was "girl slowly cuts boy into ribbons" or something like that.

Me: So another lie then?

Jane: Of course! But you have to admit it makes for a compelling story, the poor innocent woman who takes revenge on all men because she was raped. You see, it makes it easier to sympathize with me. You know, paint me as the victim rather than the aggressor. Make me into that delicious little two dimensional equation that you some day solve and then.. RAINBOWS, EVERYWHERE!

Me: You know I'm not going to give up on you.

Jane: And you're such a sweetie for doing that too. Now, unless you mind, I'll be going back to my pod again. I need my beauty sleep.

 

And as she went back into her pod, I asked her again:

 

Me: Are you sure you want this? If you'd only be willing to work with me, the sky could be the limit.

Jane: Oh I'm sure. Oh and yeah, before I go.. eyes up here mister.

 

So that's how that discussion went. We've had a few by now. I've tried different ways to get through to her, but nothing really sticks.

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I see her point, if she likes who she is, then... welp, can you have fun with her killing homicidal insectoid aliens on a hostile planet or does it have to be humans, horror movie style?

 

How about D&D style dungeon crawls killing kobolds, or zombie apocalypse?

 

You could go on assassin runs, or even like hunger games type stuff. She seems interesting the way she is to me, not everyone has to be multi-colored pony girls chasing rainbows.

 

She could be a cleaner like in the movie Morgan. That was pretty cool.

 

Sorry if this is offensive to anyone, but she was pretty interesting.

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I see her point, if she likes who she is, then... welp, can you have fun with her killing homicidal insectoid aliens on a hostile planet or does it have to be humans, horror movie style?

 

How about D&D style dungeon crawls killing kobolds, or zombie apocalypse?

 

You could go on assassin runs, or even like hunger games type stuff. She seems interesting the way she is to me, not everyone has to be multi-colored pony girls chasing rainbows.

 

She could be a cleaner like in the movie Morgan. That was pretty cool.

 

Sorry if this is offensive to anyone, but she was pretty interesting.

 

Nah, she's all in it for the thrill of causing pain. It's one of the things I know she was honest about way back when she gave me her first (of many) sob stories.

Apparently causing others pain and killing them gets her sexually excited, thanks to her implants and her conditioning. Apparently if it's not at least partly sentient and human, it does nothing for her.

I discussed alternate ways of getting her that "high" in the past and she basically smiled at me and went "You're offering to be my little personal boy toy? How how romantic of you!"

 

And we did discuss containment, but she's made it clear she wants everything or nothing. Full access, all worlds. Anything less would have her try and break out. Considering she defeated my perception filter on my exit to "her" world with a simple GPS tracker was impressive, but also kind of scary because it's not an avenue I'd thought of.

 

While she is arguably an interesting individual (which more people than one have expressed in the past) her persona is unfortunately flawed. I was discussing our conversation with Mech before as well and he did point out that her implants and conditioning are in fact abstracts, so digging into those doesn't help. Furthermore, even if we did find a way to get her "safe" it'd just be another roundabout way of snapping my fingers.

And on that account, she expressed that she'd love nothing more than to actually have me do that to her, because as she put it "It'd eat away at you forever, maybe even drive you crazy one day, I love that idea. Makes me feel all hot and bothered...."

 

So yeah, until I can figure out something else, she'll remain in stasis.

 

Edit: To say that she's highly manipulative is an understatement as you can understand, so an argument with her is always like a roller coaster in a way.

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All worlds all access hm? I mean, does she have superpowers? The negotiations start there, but if she's so stubborn as to not even budge then we're done until she changes her strategy.

 

The following sound horrible, but i've read indie stories and these are pretty tame.

 

Strand her on a high grav criminal planet where only the worst possible criminals are 'disposed', ones that are so depraved and vile that whatever she would do to then would be too good for them. Intelligent, human, and brutal like Crematoria, then quarantine the planet.

 

Put her on a high sec city world where trillions of people live, she could easily fullfil her needs with contract kills against high value targets and spend her earnings in the black market slave trade. But you'll have to put a tracer on her that prevents her from leaving planetside. The trick is, they carefully monitor her and only give her access to 'special slaves' none of them are in any way innocent, trust me.

 

Offer her some choices, give her time to think.  

 

Somehow i feel it won't work though. She may not be 'happy' but it may require a little coaxing on your part to get her relocated.

 

I am reminded of a similar person in my past, it may come down to you carefully crafting a storyline that kind of forces her to 'learn the error of her ways'.

 

I could help you craft a set of scenarios for her to work through.

 

It'll have to be 'tough choices' for her that systematically counters the conditioning she had and jumpers the implants, mentally speaking. If she's so strong willed, she'll understand the consequences for her actions eventually.

 

Yeah, otherwise no.

 

The dragons in my lore are OP monsters. They're cunning, ruthless, powerful magic users, mind alteration experts, they torture, kill, enslave, and worst of all, they're generally crass on dinner dates. So i wouldn't let any of them roam free in wonderland either.

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