Jump to content

Median Systems and Moons


Guest

Recommended Posts

That's fair, what I meant by 'you can't' wasn't specifically 'you', i know it applies that you are locked in to your belief,  i wasn't trying to deny you your belief. I meant 'you' in a general sense and 'me' specifically in my understanding and acceptance of your model. However, given that logic, can you categorize sameness to differentness so that people are allowed to treat a different thoughtform differently than another without discrimination?

 

My point remains and I'm not sure it can be solved given your model.

 

I understand your point I think, it's all in your head and thought morality shouldn't be confused with morality. But given many, including myself, believe that there are thoughtforms that morality does apply to equally to other 'people', we need a way to differentiate other (not lesser) thoughtforms that this doesn't apply to, in order to avoid system growth for every NPC or chatacter that claims they're real.

 

I understand you think nothing is real, that's not really helpful in this context. I do respect your opinion though and in a profound way.

 

My doubts regarding tulpamancy and my tulpas center on your argument. So I'm pretty familiar with your reasoning in that regard. I consider your logic intrusive and counterproductive to my system (if we adopted it, this isn't an attack) so I reject it internally without taking anything away from your belief, which is just as valid other than experience that we have that doesn't allow that conclusion for us.

 

You could say the basis for tulpamancy and that remarkable power I've unlocked through the tools in this community to affect mood and behavior is opposed to your model. My tools aren't necessarily as powerful, or in some cases even plausible, given your model. Are they?

 

So for those of us who choose to believe differently and understand that there are actual people helping us and sharing our lives with us, there are tremendous benefits to be had, exemplified by my and others' testimony.

 

It's a issue that, people are invested (even mortally) in the idea that tulpas are people, and that it's a fact in their belief system. So we are looking for ways to help people understand how to work around that notion so they can enjoy their other characters and avoid fear, anxiety and system growth.

 

Melian, you're model is perfect to address this, but someone would have to abandon a key basis of tulpamancy to adopt it.

 

Also, I'd like to applaud your patience and restraint with my stubbornness. There are reasons why I must believe the way I do. So far I would thus appear stubborn, but I never take anything off the table in mindspace, it's a matter of internal evidence and modeling my experience. Tulpamancy has more than delivered as advertised to me.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 26
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Melian, you're model is perfect to address this, but someone would have to abandon a key basis of tulpamancy to adopt it.

 

Also, I'd like to applaud your patience and restraint with my stubbornness. There are reasons why I must believe the way I do. So far I would thus appear stubborn, but I never take anything off the table in mindspace, it's a matter of internal evidence and modeling my experience. Tulpamancy has more than delivered as advertised to me.

 

Yesh, I am back.  We can't help it.  

 

You're so reasonable and kind!  Wowy.  It's true most tulpamancers actually are very nice.  

 

I think what is really important here is that we both recognize that these experiences are profound and not trivial.  I always come back to that in the end.  That's what all, well at least most, of us share here.  I think if there is any measure of validity to someone's plurality it would be how profoundly it is affecting their life and how much it matters to them and how persistent it is, if there was a way to measure and quantify such things.  What they believe about how it is all happening is of secondary importance, if even at all important.  

 

1. Is it a seasoned experience? (like has it been happening to you for a long time?)

2. Is it life changing and profound?

3. Is it emotionally vital and important to you?  

4. Is it persistent, as in something that is being experienced consistently every day over an extended periods of time?  

 

These are the questions that I think need to be answered with a firm YES in order for it to be considered something meaningful as far as "thoughtforms" are concerned.  

 

Mistgod and I put all of these under the general title of "thoughtform:"

 

  • method acting characters (especially if they are very seasoned)
  • role playing characters (seasoned, emotionally important and very immersive types)
  • dream guides, spirit guides, muses
  • soulbonds
  • daemons
  • tulpas
  • plural system mates
  • median aspects (note median aspects can also be fictional rp or method acting personas)

Skeptical and unconvinced about independent sentience.  

 

Living Imagination  New Topic Index  Mistgod's Deviantart  Melian's Deviantart

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Mhm, that's not necessarily the purist definition of thoughtform, but it corresponds precisely to my own accepted definition.

 

Well, you left me nothing to argue with, but it's falling off topic other than to state definitions, which is good.

 

How do we help tulpamancers (those who believe real people share their lives) with fear and anxiety that they have over utilizing other thoughtforms like servators, RP characters, NPC's, etc? There's real fear that these thoughtforms would somehow become tulpas. I'll go out in a limb here that you'll agree that's preposterous. But saying that doesn't convince anyone.

 

Is there a way to differentiate a tulpa from another thoughtform conclusively? Is there any solid basis to belay their fears other than our own experience?

 

Then it goes deeper. In that it may happen that the host may have to admit, at least to themselves, that they played an important part in making that otherwise innocuous character 'real'. That may be the true resistance here. It could lead to issues within a system. So it's possible that some systems cannot accept the existence of other types of seemingly sentient thoughtforms. That's a separate issue though, we'll figure that out too hopefully.

 

The main point of this thread is to bring to light other mature thoughtform types so we aren't locked into accepting tulpas we can't afford. (Or it's murder)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Mhm, that's not necessarily the purist definition of thoughtform, but it corresponds precisely to my own accepted definition.

 

Well, you left me nothing to argue with, but it's falling off topic other than to state definitions, which is good.

 

Yay! Angry Bear we like you more every moment we chat with you!  

 

The only difference between thoughtforms that matters (in our opinion) are these factors:

 

  • the level of apparent independent action (the illusion of independent agency)
  • the level of emotional and expressive independence
  • strength and clarity of the mental illusion/image/hallucination/vision 
  • persistence
  • seasoned and experienced

The labels and categories (rp character, tulpa, soulbond, daemon, plural system mate, median aspect) are manufactured terms created to describe different combinations of these traits.   We are using language, with all its limitations, to describe subjective feelings, emotions, visions and thoughts.  It's really misguided to try to fit that into some rigid, uncompromising structure of dogma.  

 

The entire concept of tulpas and tulpamancy was borrowed and the distorted/altered/modified by internet pseudo-science geeks a small number of years ago.  The tulpa creation guides were written by them while they were not playing video games and eating too much junk food.  

 

I was around for decades before that ever happened.  Mistgod is an independent thinker.  

 

Angry Bear

How do we help tulpamancers (those who believe real people share their lives) with fear and anxiety that they have over utilizing other thoughtforms like servators, RP characters, NPC's, etc? There's real fear that these thoughtforms would somehow become tulpas. I'll go out in a limb here that you'll agree that's preposterous. But saying that doesn't convince anyone.

 

It is preposterous and I dunno.  

 

Angry BearIs there a way to differentiate a tulpa from another thoughtform conclusively? Is there any solid basis to belay their fears other than our own experience?

 

Well, I guess the level of apparent independent action and independent emotional expression and clarity of the auditory and visual illusion.  A tulpa is supposed to have a high level of these traits.  So I guess if you had to make a set of distinguishing features, those would be it.  How much of each is necessary is kinda subjective.

Skeptical and unconvinced about independent sentience.  

 

Living Imagination  New Topic Index  Mistgod's Deviantart  Melian's Deviantart

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Alright, i think we've beaten this into the ground because we keep agreeing. If I can come up with something more useful I'll post it here.

 

I made this thread at this time in hopes for the exact discussion we had. I know it's very subjective. It does give us something to think about and you've made some really interesting points that I'm not able to add to in words right now.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't think imposition has anything to do with the tulpa themself, it's a separate skill entirely (though of course a tulpa can help learn/control it and whatnot), but you don't need a tulpa to learn imposition and you don't need to learn imposition to have a tulpa. Same goes for visualization.

 💡 The Felights 💡 https://felight.carrd.co/  💡

🪐 Cosmicals: 🔥 Apollo Fire the Sun God (12/3/16) Piano Soul the Star Man (1/26/17)

🐉 Mythicals: ☁️ Indigo Blue the Sky Dragon (10/2/17), 🦑 Gelato Sweet the Sea Monster (12/11/22)

🦇 Nycticals:  Dynamo Lux the Shock Rocker (3/3/17), 🎸 Radio Hiss the Song Demon (2/8/00)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...