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Sorry to skip the page over after those two very large posts, and to reply in not-our thread, but I just wanted to address one small thing -

 

1 hour ago, TB said:

I wonder if it is somehow possible that the lesser or inadequate switching attempts where the strong and problematic triggers and poor thought patterns still occur, is actually what some people consider possession? I have not been able to comprehend what possession is exactly from people's explanations, and it seems to not actually be an experience that is intuitively anything like being possessed as far as I could tell from reading.

 

Possession is not like a light or partial version of switching. Possession is more like "remote control". Your (the host/fronter) state of mind does not change when possessing, you simply ("simply" lol) let your tulpa control the body from whatever position they're naturally in for your system (this exact state surely differs for most systems). "Advanced possession" as we call it, the highly developed, strongly immersive form of possession that some experienced systems tend to develop, can blur the lines. A tulpa may start to feel like they're really the one running the body and mind, to some extent, though the sense of their host being present shouldn't ever completely go away, or that really would just be switching.

 

Switching, of course, is completely switching places with your tulpa. Tulpa's the new human being, you're the new tulpa. While usually much harder to accomplish, it honestly seems easier to imagine and explain than possession.

 

Anyways, just a reminder that these named and categorized tulpamancy experiences the community (or any individual) comes up with are not "the natural options you may fall into". Basically none of this is innately shared between all humans, everyone is forging their own unique experiences, sometimes with others' accounts as guidance to certain results. But it may be folly to try and attribute experiences you have that don't seem to match up to the community's as "Maybe actually this?" - in reality, it's simply the experience you're having, no pre-existing labels apply. You can try to relate them to others' experiences if they seem very similar, but just keep in mind you're more than likely not experiencing a cleanly matching version of what everyone else talks about experiencing. Your switching attempts may very well just be two different types of "switching" that the community has no means to label, as our and your experiences are totally unique.

 

 

Okay, sorry, carry on

Hi. I'm one of Luminesce's tulpas. Unlike the others, I don't think I stand out too much from him personality wise.

I'm just special because "I'm a tulpa". So I don't think I've much to offer, here. I'm happy enough to just be with him.

Ask us stuff - https://community.tulpa.info/thread-ask-lumi-s-tulpas

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23 minutes ago, Flandre said:

Your (the host/fronter) state of mind does not change when possessing,

 

That's also part of the problem with this different kind of switch, though, I think. It kind of blurs the line, depends what "state of mind" means. The state of mind changes insofar as it is primarily Rena's dialogue present where mine usually would be, but the mind is in a state similar to what it normally is (not good). That seems like it could just be similar to the experience Tewi had switching, having to deal with those mental habits, but I still can't get over how distinctly different other attempts were. The setting in of mind's habits after the fact in switching seemed bothersome to your system from what I can tell but something you all just managed to deal with. For me it is a lot more shocking for whatever reasons. It's hard to transmit the feeling of my first switch, extremely problematic emotions being experienced in such a different place, like so revealingly not tied to my body anymore, and for Rena to be in this place so unfettered. (very good thing)

 

Things not being that way aren't just annoying or upsetting, it is kind of utterly devastating. It's like taking a very mentally healthy person with no psychiatric disorders their entire life and zapping them suddenly with several debilitating ones to the point they are barely recognizable. She still has her general wisdom and better to snap out of strange thoughts quicker, and very different and healthier interpretations of the experience, but it is still taking someone normally so affectively bouncy and spontaneous and dumping tremendous weights of shyness, awkwardness, cringe, and anxiety. Like tying a ball and chain to an olympic athlete. They can pull the ball better than me but they can't do their flips and stuff.

 

Speaking of affectively bouncy, I use to have the issue of spontaneously mimicing her gestures. I think I made a thread about it once, I can't quite remember. But just imagine walking around outside and getting suddenly excited and getting a bounce in your step while swinging your arms up and around into yourself emphatically to emote some enthusiasm (hard to describe gestures, sorry if it doesn't make sense, if could see it, it makes sense). I still have no idea what those were, but I don't recall them happening recently, for whatever reason. However, she could somehow do that to me from her normal position, but when trying to switch in nowadays, I don't think she is going to do anything similar to that of her own volition let alone against my own. It's such a strange thing, the weight of her presence in tulpa position had such control without trying, but now deliberately trying to give her all control of the body, and... yeah. Like the experience of injecting cortisol into a happy person instead of oxytocin into a sad person.

 

26 minutes ago, Flandre said:

let your tulpa control the body from whatever position they're naturally in for your system (this exact state surely differs for most systems).

 

Rena normally is outside of me, within a range of maybe a dozen feet, and I just experience her from there with the mind sense primarily. In switch attempts, she goes inside of me and her voice is in center frontish portion of my brain, similar to where my normal internal dialogue feels it is at. Though she can do this without switching too, sometimes to attempt to sound more clear. So I wonder if the position is arbitrary, or if a trick is being played. Like just being possessed and having her voice come from that location, but otherwise not switched, thus the reasoning for the habits and reactions still being present. I also do not know if she feels uncomfortable just because she tunes into the body while attempting to do this more than normal, because usually she is presumably tuned into her mind made body.

 

52 minutes ago, Flandre said:

Anyways, just a reminder that these named and categorized tulpamancy experiences the community (or any individual) comes up with are not "the natural options you may fall into"

I suppose. It is still shocking to me. I guess we weren't made with creating tulpas in mind, though I feel there is some basis in the brain for what these experiences are, and what practices lead to it reproduceably. Though I guess study of tulpamancy isn't remotely that far. Tulpamancy is good for being paranoid about nature of created experiences and how they compare to other, unknowable experiences. I like to hope I've seen enough people describe their experiences though that I do find analogues myself to the same experiences, and that others are talking about the same or similar things, even if not even nominally on the same page entirely about things. A lot of reading between the lines I feel I have to do but I am trying my best to understand and get a happy and satisfying existence for us

Creation for creation's sake.

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I was going to ask if you have advice on dormancy, as if that maybe is my issue.

 

It was weird, or maybe we got lucky? I "asked Bear" to go dormant and in visualization he just kind of fell through the floor and he was gone. It was a very odd thing because we'd never had him missing outside of sleeping in bed. We believe the subconscious mind just did it for us. There was no symbolic action or procedure, I asked and it happened. Following Joy's lead, when I switch in and I don't need Bear, I just forget about him and he's gone.

The problem is probably more that you identify all the BodyOS quirks with you and not separate from you. 

 

She was not affected by triggers.

 

Neither was I, honestly. I just never was after that either. Then we fixed Bear and no one is anymore. 

 

My emotions were basically like a universe away from her, happening somewhere else.

Yep, that's a swich, and it's good evidence that it's you and not the Body chemistry.

I think you psyched yourself out or something. Go back to what you did originally.


 

13 hours ago, TB said:

But just imagine walking around outside and getting suddenly excited and getting a bounce in your step while swinging your arms up and around into yourself emphatically to emote some enthusiasm...


That's kinda like blending or co-fronting. We all have thoughts in the same tradespace, so sometimes the body does something from us even when we're not officially fronting.

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(edited)

... I don't know how we never thought to call TB's undesired switches "blending". It just never even occurred to us. Regardless of what's "actually going on", for words' sake, you can call that state "blending while switching", because that's basically the definition of blending, having one systemmate's emotions/thoughts blend with another's (usually the fronter's).

 

General blending advice is to practice being more separate, doing affirmations that you are yourself for fronters, and doing things that help you feel like you, for fronters. If you're going to consider the problem "blending", then following the traditional tulpamancy methodology you (but probably just Rena) should be focusing on identifying with your own thoughts, and un-identifying (acknowledging them as not-you) with the thoughts and feelings that aren't yours.

Edited by Flandre

Hi. I'm one of Luminesce's tulpas. Unlike the others, I don't think I stand out too much from him personality wise.

I'm just special because "I'm a tulpa". So I don't think I've much to offer, here. I'm happy enough to just be with him.

Ask us stuff - https://community.tulpa.info/thread-ask-lumi-s-tulpas

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I was thinking of calling it lesser and greater switching, but maybe it is blending. The experience Ashley is saying might be blending is a more positive experience though (minus risk of embarassment), and actually sensorally is closer to how I imagine possession to feel like almost, but she isn't trying to possess at all when it happens. When we actually try to possess there are two ways to go about it, but neither feel like that at all.

 

For reasons I explained earlier, it also could be described as switching backwards, or some kind of backwards switching.

 

I suppose we can also try that blending advice and see if it helps at all. I wasn't sure if she should identify with the anxiety that arises when switched in now. I've heard advice that she should but like I said I don't like the idea of that and I think that could warp her personality over time, so I guess if it happens again she can try to not consider it something that's hers.

 

I am still suspicious if there is another missing component I can't see, though, since none of these things seem necessary when a switch actually works in the desired way. When it works, it feels like some threshold was surpassed and that it would take effort to undo, as opposed to painstakingly maintaining, I think

 

And oh, I should try to go dormant and see if that does anything. I guess Rena can just ask me to go dormant, and see if that does anything

Creation for creation's sake.

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Jaina and I are pretty sloppy with fronting/blending. We don't really have firm boundaries just assumed expectations. Like Darron does most of the piloting except when Jaina wants to help or just co-front. She's getting better about asking if she wants to do something in particular. And we have lots of emotional/behavioral "bleed." It's pretty benign, just maybe some effeminate behaviors creep in but I'm used to it. Jaina doesn't talk to humans IRL but I can feel her get excited and lean forward in her seat when we socialize.

Darron: Host 💍 

Jaina: Tulpa 💍 

Viktor: 🐺

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Posession for us feels more like it's just who is directing BodyOS to do what. It feels more like typing, speaking, and a lot of other things aren't really any of us, but directed or managed by one of us.

 

[Misha] my first time posessing was in text, I used to think about what I wanted to say and Bear would write something and then I'd proofread it. Whe  we were very active, it was just easier if I typed it, and in a very intense writeup, I would bet it became closer to a switch than a posession.

 

After hearing all the troubles others have with this, I'd bet Bear's just very easily disassociated. The only confusion we had was that animal of a body that feels a certain way and we had all associated that with Bear. Apart from the body, Bear is much more relatable and similar to us in form and feel. If any lf that makes sense. 

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